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[Bladelaw]

I feel like the only one who really got deep into Comic Jumper. I loved that game. hilarious level design and constant gameplay shifts kept the relatively short experience from getting stale.

Also I want a Maw sequel.

 

[Steverulez]

Completely agree. But i don't think that they will only have multiplayer experiences. It just happens that a lot of AAA games these days happen to have multiplayer. I mean, you talked about TLOU and Bloodborne and both of those have a strong multiplayer component.

Having re-read my post I don't want to give the wrong impression: Multiplayer is great (if done right anyway which I think MS do quite well), its also been the cornerstone of their success particularly with the likes of Halo and Gears and others and they shouldn't neglect that, in the current market its obviously very important as its more popular than ever.

But if you look at their internal studios even the ones who haven't been doing that sort of multiplayer focused game (although may have still had a multiplayer component) are now moving over to making exclusively multiplayer titles (Fable Legends, Project Knoxville, Sea of Thieves - Rare have generally had a good spread of titles). The post I responded to initially mentioned Twisted Pixel perhaps not fitting in their strategy of Xbox Live usage and building communities... I do not think that is a particularly good thought process for MS to focus on exclusively regardless of what their partner studios are making for them.

My concern is that they will end flooding their line-up with multiplayer titles and struggle to have many that take off, resulting in titles that don't do particularly well. I don't think MS are particularly good at sticking with games that aren't successful quickly either thats let face it, building things is something i've always seen as a problem for them. Of course studios should make what they are motivated to do but it was more a response to a specific thought process.

Also i'd say unquestionably something like The Last of Us and other titles I listed are much more popular for its campaign/story than its multiplayer, although thats not to say it isn't liked and played too.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

For some reason I got them confused with Press Play. I liked Lococycle a lot so I'm looking forward to what they do next.

 

[darkinstinct]

Is Microsoft the only major publisher that's let studios go independent rather than just shutting them down or selling them off?

It's supposedly cheaper to let them go than to pay them damages to terminate their contracts early. Seems like MS is already refocussing their first party games to the standard IPs again. The eight new IPs in the first year initiative started by Mattrick seems to be dead. From here on out they are catering to their core 360 audience and no longer trying to win new Xbox customers.

 

[Steverulez]

It's supposedly cheaper to let them go than to pay them damages to terminate their contracts early. Seems like MS is already refocussing their first party games to the standard IPs again. The eight new IPs in the first year initiative started by Mattrick seems to be dead. From here on out they are catering to their core 360 audience and no longer trying to win new Xbox customers.

Microsoft have 4 new IPs coming next year, one of which is developed internally (Sea of Thieves) and three developed by their partners, I don't think in general Microsoft are doing badly with how they spread themselves

 

[Stoze]

I love Splosion Man and Ms. Splosion Man and think they have one of the most underrated coop modes I've ever played.

They need some new artists though, all of their games kinda look like shit.

 

[Apathy]

I think this is good for both parties. They never seemed like a match together. At least now the studio can keep living

 

[Steverulez]

Incase anyone wondered about the IPs:

Microsoft told us that Twisted Pixel will retain its intellectual property following the split.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[Granjinha]

Those games seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

I don't think so. Sure, they are well known for their single player components, but a huge portion of Sony's AAA games have strong multiplayer components.

And i don't say this in a bad way.

They do have more single player exclusive games and do much better than MS in that respect, though, no doubt about that.

Having re-read my post I don't want to give the wrong impression: Multiplayer is great (if done right anyway which I think MS do quite well), its also been the cornerstone of their success particularly with the likes of Halo and Gears and others and they shouldn't neglect that, in the current market its obviously very important as its more popular than ever.

But if you look at their internal studios even the ones who haven't been doing that sort of multiplayer focused game (although may have still had a multiplayer component) are now moving over to making exclusively multiplayer titles (Fable Legends, Project Knoxville, Sea of Thieves - Rare have generally had a good spread of titles). The post I responded to initially mentioned Twisted Pixel perhaps not fitting in their strategy of Xbox Live usage and building communities... I do not think that is a particularly good thought process for MS to focus on exclusively regardless of what their partner studios are making for them.

My concern is that they will end flooding their line-up with multiplayer titles and struggle to have many that take off, resulting in titles that don't do particularly well. I don't think MS are particularly good at sticking with games that aren't successful quickly either thats let face it, building things is something i've always seen as a problem for them. Of course studios should make what they are motivated to do but it was more a response to a specific thought process.

Also i'd say unquestionably something like The Last of Us and other titles I listed are much more popular for its campaign/story than its multiplayer, although thats not to say it isn't liked and played too.

Oh, i agree with everything. They have real problems in building and sticking to franchises (which is funny cause they were much better at that in early 360 days) and the possibilities of flooding the market with multiplayer focused games is very real.

Just wanted to point out that even some games that have strong multiplayer components can also have a singleplayer focus or with people ending liking the games for that portion (like Crackdown and Sunset Overdrive)

It's supposedly cheaper to let them go than to pay them damages to terminate their contracts early. Seems like MS is already refocussing their first party games to the standard IPs again. The eight new IPs in the first year initiative started by Mattrick seems to be dead. From here on out they are catering to their core 360 audience and no longer trying to win new Xbox customers.

This doesn't make any sense and does not, in any way, reflects what MS is actually doing.

 

[Lazaro]

Well, if you managed to 100% Lococycle you unlock a teaser concept art of their next game.

Doesn't look like a typical Twisted Pixel game, this will be interesting.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Seems like MS is already refocussing their first party games to the standard IPs again. The eight new IPs in the first year initiative started by Mattrick seems to be dead. From here on out they are catering to their core 360 audience and no longer trying to win new Xbox customers.

What on earth are you taking about?

 

[bigace33]

wrong thread

 

[BananasWithGuns]

A bit surprising. So much for their AAA game I guess.

 

[Vince DiCola]

I only really enjoyed The Maw. I thought Splosion Man and Ms. Splosion Man were alright and Comic Jumper was balls.
So, I'm not bothered really, good luck to them in the future but I wouldn't call myself a fan

 

[Doffen]

Interesting strategy considering Phil said they're going to focus more on First-Party...

 

[Jigorath]

Are they ever going to make another 'Splosion Man? I've been waiting forever.

 

[Apathy]

Interesting strategy considering Phil said they're going to focus more on First-Party...

Well it does free up money to be used in the other studios and the ips they are working on.

 

[Neuromancer]

Maw 2 on PS4/other systems would be a lovely surprise.

 

[fallingdove]

Interesting strategy considering Phil said they're going to focus more on First-Party...

Phil meant there will be more Halo, Gears, Forza, and Fable.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Lococycle is the worst next-gen release ever made. That takes some talent for sure.

Such hyperbole. Especially given the fact that games like Putty Squad exist on current gen.

I played the demo of Lococycle, it wasn't THAT bad. Not worth spending money on for me, but still, not that bad.

 

[Doffen]

Well it does free up money to be used in the other studios and the ips they are working on.

I don't see how the Halo-, Gears-, Forza- and Fable-factories are going to be affected by this.

 

[Steverulez]

Well it does free up money to be used in the other studios and the ips they are working on.

Does a 20-30 person studio really eat up much into the budget? I doubt it, at least not much in the "opportunity cost" department anyway

 

[Shard]

I was wondering if they were even still alive. On the other hand Press Play has still be very active.

 

[rrc1594]

Phil meant there will be more Halo, Gears, Forza, and Fable.

 

[Steverulez]

The official press release on the Twisted Pixel website says this:

The companies formalized their relationship in 2011 when Microsoft acquired the studio in a “minimally integrated” arrangement, a feature that kept the door cracked open for the development announced today.

http://twistedpixelgames.com/twisted-pixel-games-goes-indie-again/

On the other hand the Press Play announcement of their acquisition by Microsoft says this:

“Microsoft and Press Play agreed on what we call a light touch acquisition, meaning they wanted us to stay Press Play and let us run the studio in the same way as we already had been doing,” he explains. “Basically they wanted us to still feel like an indie studio but without all the headaches of being indie.

http://www.develop-online.net/studi...coming-a-first-party-microsoft-studio/0189042

Is there a whole lot of difference? I guess when Microsoft decide they don't want to publish one of Press Play's games they'll go and do the same

 

[Granjinha]

I think that one of the main differences is Press Play's competence. Sure, they didn't release a hot seller, but all of their games are quite good AND got nice reviews, they are efficient with their time and MS does seem quite invested in making the studio sucessful, at least in the short term.

But yeah, it's funny they do that after going public saying that they want to focus on first party. Doesn't instill much confidence.

 

[Steverulez]

They are releasing a lot of new and interesting titles, particularly next year, there is a good range (assuming everything hits) and I'm sure there is more to come.

If you were to ask Phil I'm sure he would point to owning everything they're publishing next year as part of their first party investment and he's not necessarily wrong but things like this don't help, it just looks like their first party studio line-up is getting smaller and smaller, the opposite of what they need. Microsoft aren't willing to properly take any risks, it looks like they are always "Lets have one foot out of the door, just in case...", a bizarre strategy.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

So like, in the mean time, how do they have money to continue to pay their staff when they haven't released anything since 2013? Microsoft must still be publishing/funding the game they were working on, no?

 

[Steverulez]

So like, in the mean time, how do they have money to continue to pay their staff when they haven't released anything since 2013? Microsoft must still be publishing/funding the game they were working on, no?

It doesn't sound like it from the statement. I suspect they have got an investor or something, or maybe they already found another publisher...

Perhaps Microsoft will put Lococycle on Games With Gold to give them some money!

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

It doesn't sound like it from the statement. I suspect they have got an investor or something, or maybe they already found another publisher...

That doesn't bode well for the quality of their product then if Microsoft doesn't even want to fund it(?)

 

[Granjinha]

They are releasing a lot of new and interesting titles, particularly next year, there is a good range (assuming everything hits) and I'm sure there is more to come.

If you were to ask Phil I'm sure he would point to owning everything they're publishing next year as part of their first party investment and he's not necessarily wrong but things like this don't help, it just looks like their first party studio line-up is getting smaller and smaller, the opposite of what they need. Microsoft aren't willing to properly take any risks, it looks like they are always "Lets have one foot out of the door, just in case...", a bizarre strategy.

Yeah, i'm sure he would say that and he's not wrong, but there's no guarantee that these outside partners will always be avaible. I just don't see this being a healthy strategy in the long term. It hurt them during the 360 days and it will probably will hurt them here too.

So like, in the mean time, how do they have money to continue to pay their staff when they haven't released anything since 2013? Microsoft must still be publishing/funding the game they were working on, no?

MS will probably help them for a bit of time during the split period. They did that with Ensemble, helping a lot of the resulting new studios during their set-up.

And no info about the new title, i would risk saying that yes, they must still be publishing it, but the separation note makes it sound like Twisted Pixel is already looking at multi-plataform options.

 

[funkystudent]

Cool they didnt just shut them down.


This always seemed like a really questionable buyout on MS's part to me.

 

[DarthWalden]

More importantly, do we know if Microsoft kept the Lococycle license?

 

[Granjinha]

More importantly, do we know if Microsoft kept the Lococycle license?

They didn't. All of TP IP's are back to them.

 

[Steverulez]

That doesn't bode well for the quality of their product then if Microsoft doesn't even want to fund it(?)

It probably says more about Microsoft than the quality of the game if I was to be completely honest.

Yeah, i'm sure he would say that and he's not wrong, but there's no guarantee that these outside partners will always be avaible. I just don't see this being a healthy strategy in the long term. It hurt them during the 360 days and it will probably will hurt them here too.

Given how many studios have been acquired or shut down since the last generation I think its definitely a concern, the Project Spark news this week makes me wonder about their future too...

Although given the amount of mismanagement that goes on I'm not sure i'd even bother recommending they acquire anyone else at this point.

 

[Shrennin]

Bungie was a household name coming off one of the biggest franchises in gaming over a decade long period. Their success was guaranteed in the short term, evident by the fact that they were given an unprecedented 10 year publishing deal with the biggest publisher in gaming - with an absurd $500 million development budget. Twisted Pixel is a small studio who develops downloadable games, and they're coming off of consecutive disappointing titles.

It's not the same thing, at all.

So they didn't get shutdown, they get to keep all of their IPs, and they are back to how they were essentially before Microsoft acquired them. What's the issue? Microsoft isn't setting them up to fail. Bungie and Twisted Pixel both got the same treatment from Microsoft as studios, with Twisted Pixel even getting to keep its IP. The difference is that most publishers wouldn't let a studio like Bungie go, and most would just get rid of Twisted Pixel entirely if they failed to deliver expectations. Before this, it sounds like Microsoft let Twisted Pixel operate however they want, but there does have to be results. This type of deal is the best possible outcome for all parties involved.

 

[Granjinha]

It probably says more about Microsoft than the quality of the game if I was to be completely honest.

Given how many studios have been acquired or shut down since the last generation I think its definitely a concern, the Project Spark news this week makes me wonder about their future too...

Although given the amount of mismanagement that goes on I'm not sure i'd even bother recommending they acquire anyone else at this point.

I would agree but i don't see mismanagement being much of an issue recently. They give a lot of leeway to their studios to do things their way and really back them with the budget necessary

They do have a problem in managing their IP's and making new IP's a sucess, but their studios? Can't think of recent examples

 

[killer rin]

Well, that's.... what?

What was the purpose of purchasing them if you were just going to let them go in a couple years?

 

[Shenmue]

I hope they do well as an indie again. Splosion Man 3 hopefully can reach a larger audience now.

 

[daTRUballin]

What the hell? How did MS just let them go that easily?

Didn't MS say one of their goals was to improve on their first party output? Now they have one less developer......

 

[Steverulez]

I would agree but i don't see mismanagement being much of an issue recently. They give a lot of leeway to their studios to do things their way and really back them with the budget necessary

They do have a problem in managing their IP's and making new IP's a sucess, but their studios? Can't think of recent examples

Isn't IP management linked to managing studios?

Vancouver/Black Tusk cancelled two games before working on Gears (an established franchise they didn't make), Victoria got shut, BigPark downsized to making apps, Twisted Pixel left, Lift London were formed 3.5 years ago to make mobile games (not been seen since)...

I could look at each individual studio too (MCC broken mess, didn't KSR and Fable The Journey both bomb...?), if you look at the last 5 years or maybe even less it doesn't paint a very good picture all round.

 

[sörine]

It's supposedly cheaper to let them go than to pay them damages to terminate their contracts early.

lol. Then why doesn't everyone do this?

 

[Granjinha]

Isn't IP management linked to managing studios?

Vancouver/Black Tusk cancelled two games before working on Gears (an established franchise), Victoria got shut, BigPark downsized to making apps, Twisted Pixel left, Lift London were formed 3.5 years ago to make mobile games (not been seen since).

I could look at each individual studio too (MCC broken mess, didn't KSR and Fable The Journey both bomb...?), if you look at the last 5 years or maybe even less it doesn't paint a very good picture all round.

Oh yeah, no doubt about that. What i took from what you said (which i see constantly thrown around) is the 'MS forces people to do things!!' and i don't see many recent examples. They do have trouble with creating or buying studios and having them launch some damn games.

I do see them more open to feedback and that's pretty good. We'll see how things go from here (Press Play working on a new and quite different IP, Rare branching and Rare Replay being an aparent moderate sucess, Divisive Games working on a new AoE game , how the new Gears and Halo do), but it's not really a positive picture.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

They are releasing a lot of new and interesting titles, particularly next year, there is a good range (assuming everything hits) and I'm sure there is more to come.

If you were to ask Phil I'm sure he would point to owning everything they're publishing next year as part of their first party investment and he's not necessarily wrong but things like this don't help, it just looks like their first party studio line-up is getting smaller and smaller, the opposite of what they need. Microsoft aren't willing to properly take any risks, it looks like they are always "Lets have one foot out of the door, just in case...", a bizarre strategy.

Yeah, you have to go all in or don't bother with it. Even if Twisted Pixel did not have much to show this generation, it is the point of investing in them and looking at the long term.

Naughty Dog, for example, did not become the critically acclaimed studio that they are today overnight. It took years of support and nurturing.

MS should invest in studios in order to have them become foundations in the future. However, I guess MS is looking for something much more short term because of their current situation against their main competitor.

 

[Steverulez]

Oh yeah, no doubt about that. What i took from what you said (which i see constantly thrown around) is the 'MS forces people to do things!!' and i don't see many recent examples. They do have trouble with creating or buying studios and having them launch some damn games.

I do see them more open to feedback and that's pretty good. We'll see how things go from here (Press Play working on a new and quite different IP, Rare branching and Rare Replay being an aparent moderate sucess, Divisive Games working on a new AoE game , how the new Gears and Halo do), but it's not really a positive picture.

I don't think they force their studios to do things, at least not anymore (whether they did previously we could speculate without something conclusive for a long while).

I think if you look at what MS are focusing on they have directions they are going in and everyone thinks it is a great idea and swims in the same direction, the same happened with Kinect, now its these multiplayer titles desperate to take advantage of Azure are appearing. Whether there is any extra incentive for doing that i've no idea.

I don't think its a coincidence though that if you ignore the franchises they wouldn't dare stray from the regular games of (Halo, Forza, Gears) you'll notice Rare and Lionhead (Kinect), now Press Play too are now walking down this multiplayer path, whether any of them will make anything compelling and successful we'll have to see, last-gen Rare won out on Kinect and LH didn't, maybe it will be role reversal this time round...

Perhaps as was discussed earlier in the thread this is where Twisted Pixel didn't fit and they decided to just go back to being on their own.

 

[Granjinha]

I don't think they force their studios to do things, at least not anymore (whether they did previously we could speculate without something conclusive for a long while).

I think if you look at what MS are focusing on they have directions they are going in and everyone thinks it is a great idea and swims in the same direction, the same happened with Kinect, now its these multiplayer titles desperate to take advantage of Azure are appearing. Whether there is any extra incentive for doing that i've no idea.

I don't think its a coincidence though that if you ignore the franchises they wouldn't dare stray from the regular games of (Halo, Forza, Gears) you'll notice Rare and Lionhead (Kinect), now Press Play too are now walking down this multiplayer path, whether any of them will make anything compelling and successful we'll have to see, last-gen Rare won out on Kinect and LH didn't, maybe it will be role reversal this time round...

Perhaps as was discussed earlier in the thread this is where Twisted Pixel didn't fit and they decided to just go back to being on their own.

I get what you are saying but i don't think Press Play fits in this at all. I mean, sure, two of three concepts were multiplayer focused, but Karoo had a MUCH stronger single-player component. Open world with missions and a nice campaign. It just happened that Knoxville won the bid.

Besides that, i can see your point, even if some (few) games don't fit in that either (ReCore and Quantum Break come to mind, Scalebound does have co-op but it doesn't seem like the single-player is less of an important factor there)

Yeah, you have to go all in or don't bother with it. Even if Twisted Pixel did not have much to show this generation, it is the point of investing in them and looking at the long term.

Naughty Dog, for example, did not become the critically acclaimed studio that they are today overnight. It took years of support and nurturing.

MS should invest in studios in order to have them become foundations in the future. However, I guess MS is looking for something much more short term because of their current situation against their main competitor.

Yeah, completely agree. It takes time for a studio to really build up and turn to something special. I'm not a huge fan of Killzone, for example, but the new project from GG looks fucking amazing. Sony stood with them and now it's going to pay off with an new IP that's probably going to be an amazing sucess (not like Killzone didn't sell well or anything, i think you guys get me)

 

[Sydle]

I get what you are saying but i don't think Press Play fits in this at all. I mean, sure, two of three concepts were multiplayer focused, but Karoo had a MUCH stronger single-player component. Open world with missions and a nice campaign. It just happened that Knoxville won the bid.

Besides that, i can see your point, even if some (few) games don't fit in that either (ReCore and Quantum Break come to mind, Scalebound does have co-op but it doesn't seem like the single-player is less of an important factor there)



Yeah, completely agree. It takes time for a studio to really build up and turn to something special. I'm not a huge fan of Killzone, for example, but the new project from GG looks fucking amazing. Sony stood with them and now it's going to pay off with an new IP that's probably going to be an amazing sucess (not like Killzone didn't sell well or anything, i think you guys get me)

They've taken down the project pages, but I distinctly remember the Project Karoo document stating that one of the objectives is enabling players to build things together.

Yeah, you have to go all in or don't bother with it. Even if Twisted Pixel did not have much to show this generation, it is the point of investing in them and looking at the long term.

Naughty Dog, for example, did not become the critically acclaimed studio that they are today overnight. It took years of support and nurturing.

MS should invest in studios in order to have them become foundations in the future. However, I guess MS is looking for something much more short term because of their current situation against their main competitor.

Are you suggesting that given time TwistedPixel, or any studio for that matter, can become a NaughtyDog-caliber developer? If time were the only variable then nobody would ever shut down a studio. That's preposterous.

4 years with only LocoCycle to show for it isn't a good look. I think it's safe to assume that MS had a look at their new IP and decided it wasn't what they were looking for at this time and the IP from the acquisition wasn't something they envisioned leveraging again.

 

[Granjinha]

They've taken down the project pages, but I distinctly remember the Project Karoo document stating that one of the objectives is enabling players to build things together.

There were things like that (and sharing vehicles with the community), but the main aspect seemed to be the open world and campaign. I remember online co-op, too.

 

[Harmen]

Not familiar with their games, but good on MS that this studio is allowed to go independent instead of being disbanded/repurposed entirely.

 

[Alphahawk]

Not familiar with their games, but good on MS that this studio is allowed to go independent instead of being disbanded/repurposed entirely.

If you have a 360 you owe it to yourself to check out Splosion Man.