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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!

Yeah, I'm thinking that Spidey/Strange/Ammy might be pretty good if I can actually get the combos down. Hah.
The big problem with your team is that Strange gets slaughtered on the incoming. People talk about snapping Vergil in, but he has two options against incoming mix-ups. Strange has one that works if your opponent is asleep.
 

Dartastic

Member
The big problem with your team is that Strange gets slaughtered on the incoming. People talk about snapping Vergil in, but he has two options against incoming mix-ups. Strange has one that works if your opponent is asleep.
I guess I'll just have to hope my blocks are up to par. :/
 

Dahbomb

Member
Strange is going to get slaughtered on incoming no matter what. Playing him on point forfeits so much of his supportive capability (the conundrum of playing Doom on point). TAC combos, instant anywhere DHC, great assist and even useful THC. At least he has the threat of SoV so the opponent has to be air tight with his incoming.
 
Haha, wasn't thinking. I'm assuming you're playing Dorm/Doom(missiles)/Strange then?
I wouldn't say "playing" since I haven't left training mode with the team just yet, but the plan is actually Doom on Plasma Beam or Molecular Shield. Hidden Missiles is only good when Dormammu is already established, and if I get Dormammu established I can beat a lot of teams without assists. I need stuff to get him there. Plasma Beam appears behind Dormammu and pushes the opponent back, so it's quite good for that. Molecular Shield might seem like an odd choice, but it makes Dormammu's launcher safe on block. Anyone who has played me knows that I throw Dormammu's launcher out as a poke all the goddamn time, because it's just so good. It's also really unsafe on block, though. Molecular Shield turns it into a true blockstring (Plasma Beam does not) AND provides enough pin for me to do a high/low mix-up with Dormammu. So if I can start rounds with launcher +Molecular Shield, bam, I'm set up.

Plasma Beam is still really good, though, and I'm not quit set on one over the other. I tend to think that Molecular Shield is also best for Dr. Strange.
 

Zissou

Member
Molecular shield being used to give Strange a reliable universal blockstring since mystic sword whiffs on smaller characters? Could work for teleport mix-ups too, I'd imagine. I've personally been keen to mess around with Doom plus bolts assist ever since the other day when people were claiming it was a top five assist for Doom. If nothing else it would work at least as well as it does for Nova for tricky mix-ups once successfully called.
 

FSLink

Banned
I wouldn't say "playing" since I haven't left training mode with the team just yet, but the plan is actually Doom on Plasma Beam or Molecular Shield. Hidden Missiles is only good when Dormammu is already established, and if I get Dormammu established I can beat a lot of teams without assists. I need stuff to get him there. Plasma Beam appears behind Dormammu and pushes the opponent back, so it's quite good for that. Molecular Shield might seem like an odd choice, but it makes Dormammu's launcher safe on block. Anyone who has played me knows that I throw Dormammu's launcher out as a poke all the goddamn time, because it's just so good. It's also really unsafe on block, though. Molecular Shield turns it into a true blockstring (Plasma Beam does not) AND provides enough pin for me to do a high/low mix-up with Dormammu. So if I can start rounds with launcher +Molecular Shield, bam, I'm set up.

Plasma Beam is still really good, though, and I'm not quit set on one over the other. I tend to think that Molecular Shield is also best for Dr. Strange.

Yeah I messed with this team awhile back and I agree with everything you're saying. I preferred Doom on point on that team. Allows me to DHC to Dorm and start zoning with meteors + Bolts which works pretty well, and I could start rushdown if needed too since Bolts works really well with Dorm's teleport mixups. Couldn't figure out any easy way to get into the FoF loop with Strange without missiles or TAC, but I suppose on that team it's not really needed. Doom/Ammy/Strange is also a good combination too. :p
Also I liked ending combos with s.H, call Bolts, Molecular Shield L x 2, Sphere Flame with Doom, haha.
 
Molecular shield being used to give Strange a reliable universal blockstring since mystic sword whiffs on smaller characters? Could work for teleport mix-ups too, I'd imagine. I've personally been keen to mess around with Doom plus bolts assist ever since the other day when people were claiming it was a top five assist for Doom. If nothing else it would work at least as well as it does for Nova for tricky mix-ups once successfully called.
I like Molecular Shield because the backside hits teleporters and it lasts a long time on the screen. Plasma Beam is better at creating space, but it doesn't affect the field for as long of a time. Molecular Shield also creates a hitbox faster and causes more pinning. I'm not big on Molecular Shield for teleport mix-ups because the rocks hit individually, and they tend to be hard to confirm off of. Molecular Shield actually gives Strange enough time to do:
c.LLL, Mystic Sword L + Molecular Shield, Eye of Agamotto

And be roughly frame-neutral against the opponent.

Yeah I messed with this team awhile back and I agree with everything you're saying. I preferred Doom on point on that team. Allows me to DHC to Dorm and start zoning with meteors + Bolts which works pretty well, and I could start rushdown if needed too since Bolts works really well with Dorm's teleport mixups. Couldn't figure out any easy way to get into the FoF loop with Strange without missiles or TAC, but I suppose on that team it's not really needed. Doom/Ammy/Strange is also a good combination too. :p
Also I liked ending combos with s.H, call Bolts, Molecular Shield L x 2, Sphere Flame with Doom, haha.
The double Molecular Shield ending kept dropping for me. What's the timing on that supposed to be like?

I might start Doom on the team for matchups that Dormammu can't handle, but I'll have to see if those exist first. Bolts is definitely one of Dormammu's best teleport mix-up assists.
 
I run an alt of team of Mag(disruptor)/Strange(bolts)/Doom(missiles). This team was built with the motto of "zoning to get in". Strange with missiles is pretty dirty. Once missiles are out I basically go with three options depending on the situation. Teleport, call out eye into a tk daggers M. then land into daggers L. (great zoning string), or call out some graces. Missiles are also for combo extension as usual. It's hard to explain how it works since I don't think I've ever seen anyone use strange the way I do.
 

Dahbomb

Member
SSFIV gets another update, and MvC3 fans are left in the dust. :(
At least a good game got an update this time around. Imagine the salt if SFxT had gotten another update before Marvel.

In the spirit of the SSF4 update, list 10 characters with changes that you would like to see. Preferably 5 you would buff and 5 you would nerf. 5 system changes would be good too.
 

Dahbomb

Member
UMVC3: Community Suggested Balance Changes

(10 characters, 5 buffs/5 nerfs, 5 system changes)

Assume that glitches are fixed so need to ask for glitch fixes. We are assuming guard breaks (grabbing during advance guard) is a glitch and will be fixed.


SYSTEM CHANGES

*TAC now have a 20 frame input window after the color indicator appears for which TAC they are using. You have 20 frames in which you can correctly see which TAC your opponent is using and counter it.

*Post-TAC combos reset hit stun but build back up again. You can do some swag TAC combos but it will be as if you started the confirm in the air and after the first hit HSD will apply as normal. Meter gain from TAC combos is halved.

*X Factor values rescaled from 50/75/100 to 50/60/70 with timers for XF2 and XF3 reduced from 15/20 seconds to 12.5/15 seconds. X factor and damage/speed buff hypers do not multiplicatively scale up (to avoid Wolverine/Wesker/Vergil becoming godlike in anchor in terms of damage and speed).

*Teching will put opponents further from each other and characters can't be thrown while in tech animation (in a rare situation, a super fast Wolverine recovers faster and throws the opponent while they are still in throw tech recovery). Teching in air will not reset air actions or assist use.

*Most mashing hypers damage reduced to Vanilla level at max mash.


CHARACTER SPECIFIC CHANGES


DR DOOM

*Hidden Missiles will be destroyed if Doom is hit as an assist. The move retains same properties as before while on point.

*Foot Dive hit box reduced and Doom does not have a hit box above his knees.

*Ground bounce time/height reduced after being hit by Foot Dive

*St.H and st.M OTG moves have less hit stun. While you can pick up an opponent initially with either of those moves (like Wesker's Gun Shot) you can't do it after a single relaunch because their hit stun won't allow for a launcher follow up. You will have to do more creative combos like Buktooth's Loop to do good damage with Doom and actually learn proper aerial hit confirms than FOOT DIVE into full combo.

*Plasma Beam assist has Doom placed where the point character is, not behind him. This is to prevent Doom from combo breaking in certain situations.


MAGNETO

*EMD L start up increased slightly. Assist version also has same properties as point version. This is mostly to make it easier to react to EMD Teleport mix ups.

*J.H damage reduced from 83,000 to 75,000 with proportional meter gain reduction. Has slightly reduced posterior hit box.

*Air dash speeds reduced slightly. Increased height from which Magneto can do j.L instant tridash overhead.


VIPER

*EX Seismo cannot be jump cancelled and thus is unsafe on block. Still leads into a full combo and is invincible. Invincibility frames slightly reduced.

*FADC Unblockable causes minimum hit stun if an opponent is hit while air blocking. On ground it works the same. Meaning you can't lock down an incoming opponent and unblockable them while they are still blocking Jam Session in the air.

*Damage scaling for normals and specials reduced from 20%/30% to 10%/20%.

(Optic Blast recharge glitch removed as part of the "glitch removal" portion of the post but just putting it out there in case people ask for it. Same for Vergil's RT glitch.)


VERGIL

*Hightime only picks up one character

*Helm Breaker cannot be cancelled into any special moves except for the H teleport. Likewise the second H part of HSH cannot be special cancelled.

*Special move scaling reduced from 20% to 10%.

*Dimension Slash hyper locks Vergil in place where he does and summons projectiles instead. Cannot cross up with this change and when he X factors he will appear where he performed the hyper. Does not cause hard knockdown, causes a similar fall state and soft knockdown as Phantom Dance so that you don't get punished for using the move! This is basically to put an end to random ass "perform hyper out of the blue, wait for a cross up, X Factor DT to pick up opponent to kill him".

*Spiral Swords durability decreased, time and hits decreased by 1/3rd. Basically removing the 3rd hit on each of the Swords (so now it hits for 12 hits instead of 16).



ZERO

*Soft knockdown on Lightning removed.

*Lightning cannot be Buster cancelled.

*Damage scaling values for normals and specials changed from 20/30% to 10/20%.

*Cannot do TAC exploit

*Setsuizan H only picks up one character.


IRON MAN

*Has a proper wave dash

*Air dash start ups changed to Vanilla status. The rest of the properties on the dashes are retained.

*Smart Bombs has a new charged version that on full charges releases homing missiles like Dante's Hysterics.

*St.H horizontal reach matches cr.M horizontal reach so that IM finally has a universal hit confirm.

*Proton Cannon start up reduced and recovery reduced. Causes soft knockdown if cancelled before the final hit (just like many other hypers).



NOVA

*Knockdown time from throws reduced so that Nova players don't have time to drink their coffee before picking up for the throw.

*Red life mechanic changed. Red life dependent moves will only reduce as much health as is required to reach maximum potency of the move. No more getting rid of your entire red health bar just to set up a Gravimetric Pulse.

*Cannot do TAC exploit.

*Centurion Rush assist replaced with Javelin assist. Only causes Hard knockdown as an assist.


WOLVERINE

*Fatal Claw hyper damage scaling value reduced so that at max combo it does lower damage than Berserker Barrage. FC still has the advantage in utility because it can be linked and it can be used in the air.

*Swiss Cheese has higher recovery and less block stun.

*St.H damage reduced from 95K to 80K.

*St.L hit box reduced slightly.


WESKER

*Phantom Dance hyper reworked to be the same as new Dimension Slash hyper. No more random cross ups please.

*Glasses mechanic removed.

*Hyper counter has start up invincibility like in Vanilla but retains current scaling values.


IRON FIST (very far out wishlist but I had to do it for one character)

*Iron Fist can now double jump.

*Iron Fist has a Wolverine-like Dive Kick.

*Cr.L hits low.

*All Chi activations also initiate a counter attack. Red counters Low, Blue counters High and Green counters projectile. Further more Chi's have the following additional passive buffs: Red Chi enhances block damage on Rekkas, Blue Chi gives single point of armor on the forward advancing Rekkas and Green Chi gives small amount of meter even on whiffed Rekkas.

*Rising Fang and Shoulder Tackle moves can be performed without using Rekkas. Air OK.

*Crescent Heel has slightly faster start up (for better air throw pick ups) and causes stagger on standing opponents.

*Zen Mode. Utility hyper activated by down, down + 2 attacks. Cannot build meter during the hyper except on Rekka attacks. This utility hyper activates all of Iron Fist's Chis at once.
 

JeTmAn81

Member
So you enjoy having to block 5 instant j.L overheads in one second?

You know, it's not actually that easy to pull off those instant overheads correctly and quickly. And you shouldn't be in the position of having to block them in the first place. If you let the Magneto player get you locked down, you deserve to get mixed up that fast. I think Magneto's airdash speed is fine.
 

FSLink

Banned
The double Molecular Shield ending kept dropping for me. What's the timing on that supposed to be like?

Might be doing too many hits. Should work with s.H, call Strange while pressing H, L Molecular Shield *pause to let other Bolt hit* L Molecular Shield, Sphere Flame
 

Dahbomb

Member
You know, it's not actually that easy to pull off those instant overheads correctly and quickly. And you shouldn't be in the position of having to block them in the first place. If you let the Magneto player get you locked down, you deserve to get mixed up that fast. I think Magneto's airdash speed is fine.
You can get mixed up from like 5 character length away because of the range and speed of this tri-dash. No other character has a tridash mix up like that. It's one thing to get mixed up under a Cold Shot with the character humping you (a lot of characters can do that like Viper, Iron Man, Nova with their up/down dash but they need to be on you).

It's not like I am asking to make him into UMVC3 IM. He still wouldn't be Vanilla IM or Doom speed, he would be faster. The change would just make it slightly easier to react to his j.L/cr.L tri-dash mix up, it's not like he's losing the tool unlike IM who essentially lose his tri-dash M offense.
 

JeTmAn81

Member
You can get mixed up from like 5 character length away because of the range and speed of this tri-dash. No other character has a tridash mix up like that. It's one thing to get mixed up under a Cold Shot with the character humping you (a lot of characters can do that like Viper, Iron Man, Nova with their up/down dash but they need to be on you).

It's not like I am asking to make him into UMVC3 IM. He still wouldn't be Vanilla IM or Doom speed, he would be faster. The change would just make it slightly easier to react to his j.L/cr.L tri-dash mix up, it's not like he's losing the tool unlike IM who essentially lose his tri-dash M offense.

Magneto's trijump is nowhere near unblockable from far away. It's only crazy up close. So if you're getting hit by that from a long distance, you need to change the way you play the matchup. If Magneto's far away, all you have to do is block high.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Magneto's trijump is nowhere near unblockable from far away. It's only crazy up close. So if you're getting hit by that from a long distance, you need to change the way you play the matchup. If Magneto's far away, all you have to do is block high.
Dude he can do empty tri jump H/S into cr.L which looks like he is doing j.L tridash but you get hit low.

I mean I am not the only person who gets hit by this, every pro player gets hit by it on a regular basis.

I also felt I was generous on Magneto in general compared to other top 5. I mean if I didn't at least address his godlike mobility he would be the best character in the update easily. If you have suggestions on how to make him not be the obvious top 5 in the game then I am all ears.
 

JeTmAn81

Member
Dude he can do empty tri jump H/S into cr.L which looks like he is doing j.L tridash but you get hit low.

I mean I am not the only person who gets hit by this, every pro player gets hit by it on a regular basis.

I also felt I was generous on Magneto in general compared to other top 5. I mean if I didn't at least address his godlike mobility he would be the best character in the update easily.

He still has to be pretty close in order to hit them with the c.L. From what I've seen, top-level players only get truly dominated by Maggy's trijumps when he's got them locked down already with Missiles or Drones.

Anyway, I think a damage nerf on Magneto would probably be enough. Otherwise I like him just as he is. But obviously we just disagree on some things. I do think overall you're probably nerfing a little too much, though a general nerf of the most OP characters is what the game needs most.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Already gave him the damage nerf but that would still put him in the best character slot if everyone else around him is also receiving damage nerfs. His damage nerf was way less than the other characters simply because Magneto can't straight up do a 950K damage like those other characters can and a simple reduction in the damage/meter gain of his st.H (which he repeats a lot in combos) is enough for him.

Also I would totally start a Kickstart project for a Marvel update if an option was provided like with Skullgirls. Or at least a petition something.... WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING GUYS!!!
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Fuck TAC changes. Just get rid of them entirely. Nothing good has come out of their inclusion in the game except for arguably the anti-Phoenix tech.

I'd like them to fix the scaling on some of Dante's moves. I think a nerf was in order, but they went too far. And get rid of Spencer's 80K... I guess we're counting that as a glitch in the above? EDIT: Oh, 10 chars only.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Fuck TAC changes. Just get rid of them entirely. Nothing good has come out of their inclusion in the game except for arguably the anti-Phoenix tech.
Keep it in for the casuals but make it useless against good players. I mean they can stay in the game just for that extra level of mix up and to keep someone sleeping on the TAC because they think they can react to it now. Plus the reward wouldn't nearly be as much as it is now where you get an infinite off of it.

And I am totally serious about the Kickstarter/Petition idea.
 
I'll comment on what I approve of or do not approve of with a brief summary.

UMVC3: Community Suggested Balance Changes

(10 characters, 5 buffs/5 nerfs, 5 system changes)

Assume that glitches are fixed so need to ask for glitch fixes. We are assuming guard breaks (grabbing during advance guard) is a glitch and will be fixed.


SYSTEM CHANGES

*TAC now have a 20 frame input window after the color indicator appears for which TAC they are using. You have 20 frames in which you can correctly see which TAC your opponent is using and counter it.
TACs should never steal meter, and 20 frames still feels like too little. This isn't a throw that can be teched with one button, there are three directions to choose from and one button.

*Post-TAC combos reset hit stun but build back up again. You can do some swag TAC combos but it will be as if you started the confirm in the air and after the first hit HSD will apply as normal. Meter gain from TAC combos is halved.
If you halve meter gain from a TAC combo, your opponent will gain more meter than you from it (see: Morrigan Astral Vision combos).

*X Factor values rescaled from 50/75/100 to 50/60/70 with timers for XF2 and XF3 reduced from 15/20 seconds to 12.5/15 seconds. X factor and damage/speed buff hypers do not multiplicatively scale up (to avoid Wolverine/Wesker/Vergil becoming godlike in anchor in terms of damage and speed).
Hypers should not scale multiplicatively, but 50/60/70 is terrible. There needs to be a strong tradeoff in using XF1/2/3. I think X-Factor values are very fair in this game, and we only need to focus on adjusting X-Factor values for specific characters.

*Teching will put opponents further from each other and characters can't be thrown while in tech animation (in a rare situation, a super fast Wolverine recovers faster and throws the opponent while they are still in throw tech recovery). Teching in air will not reset air actions or assist use.
Excellent changes.

*Most mashing hypers damage reduced to Vanilla level at max mash.
This is nerfing hypers.

CHARACTER SPECIFIC CHANGES


DR DOOM

*Hidden Missiles will be destroyed if Doom is hit as an assist. The move retains same properties as before while on point.
Eh, I guess.

*Foot Dive hit box reduced and Doom does not have a hit box above his knees.
This move is fine.

*Ground bounce time/height reduced after being hit by Foot Dive
If the goal is to give Doom less time to convert off of Foot Dive, I am okay with this change.

*St.H and st.M OTG moves have less hit stun. While you can pick up an opponent initially with either of those moves (like Wesker's Gun Shot) you can't do it after a single relaunch because their hit stun won't allow for a launcher follow up. You will have to do more creative combos like Buktooth's Loop to do good damage with Doom and actually learn proper aerial hit confirms than FOOT DIVE into full combo.
Plenty of characters have easy aerial hit confirms into full combos. I need to see a better argument for why this is a problem.

*Plasma Beam assist has Doom placed where the point character is, not behind him. This is to prevent Doom from combo breaking in certain situations.
Superb change.

MAGNETO

*EMD L start up increased slightly. Assist version also has same properties as point version. This is mostly to make it easier to react to EMD Teleport mix ups.
Only the assist version is changed, or the point version, too? I can agree with the former but not the latter.

*J.H damage reduced from 83,000 to 75,000 with proportional meter gain reduction. Has slightly reduced posterior hit box.
Magneto's damage isn't absurd.

*Air dash speeds reduced slightly. Increased height from which Magneto can do j.L instant tridash overhead.
Only the latter of these two is needed, if at all.


VIPER

*EX Seismo cannot be jump cancelled and thus is unsafe on block. Still leads into a full combo and is invincible. Invincibility frames slightly reduced.
That's a lot of nerfs for a move that costs a whole bar on a character that doesn't win tournaments.

*FADC Unblockable causes minimum hit stun if an opponent is hit while air blocking. On ground it works the same. Meaning you can't lock down an incoming opponent and unblockable them while they are still blocking Jam Session in the air.
Then what's the point of the move?

*Damage scaling for normals and specials reduced from 20%/30% to 10%/20%.
Sure.

(Optic Blast recharge glitch removed as part of the "glitch removal" portion of the post but just putting it out there in case people ask for it. Same for Vergil's RT glitch.)
Good, but give her Optic Blast as an assist, too. This is the most important change she could receive.

VERGIL

*Hightime only picks up one character
Why?

*Helm Breaker cannot be cancelled into any special moves except for the H teleport. Likewise the second H part of HSH cannot be special cancelled.
Why?

*Special move scaling reduced from 20% to 10%.
Good change.

*Dimension Slash hyper locks Vergil in place where he does and summons projectiles instead. Cannot cross up with this change and when he X factors he will appear where he performed the hyper. Does not cause hard knockdown, causes a similar fall state and soft knockdown as Phantom Dance so that you don't get punished for using the move! This is basically to put an end to random ass "perform hyper out of the blue, wait for a cross up, X Factor DT to pick up opponent to kill him".
Excellent change, but don't have it cause a soft knockdown - you're limiting character synergy if you do that.

*Spiral Swords durability decreased, time and hits decreased by 1/3rd. Basically removing the 3rd hit on each of the Swords (so now it hits for 12 hits instead of 16).
I don't think this would change anything.


ZERO

*Soft knockdown on Lightning removed.
Good change.

*Lightning cannot be Buster cancelled.
Good change.

*Damage scaling values for normals and specials changed from 20/30% to 10/20%.
Good change.

*Cannot do TAC exploit
Should be a system change.

*Setsuizan H only picks up one character.
Good change.


IRON MAN

*Has a proper wave dash
Good change.

*Air dash start ups changed to Vanilla status. The rest of the properties on the dashes are retained.
Good change.

*Smart Bombs has a new charged version that on full charges releases homing missiles like Dante's Hysterics.
Change his c.H, too.

*St.H horizontal reach matches cr.M horizontal reach so that IM finally has a universal hit confirm.
Good change.

*Proton Cannon start up reduced and recovery reduced. Causes soft knockdown if cancelled before the final hit (just like many other hypers).
The startup is fine (3 frame reversal tradeoff), but the rest is good.


NOVA

*Knockdown time from throws reduced so that Nova players don't have time to drink their coffee before picking up for the throw.
Good change.

*Red life mechanic changed. Red life dependent moves will only reduce as much health as is required to reach maximum potency of the move. No more getting rid of your entire red health bar just to set up a Gravimetric Pulse.
Maybe make those moves A+S so the red life usage is optional?

*Cannot do TAC exploit.

*Centurion Rush assist replaced with Javelin assist. Only causes Hard knockdown as an assist.
You mean only hard knockdown against aerial opponents, right? Haha.

WOLVERINE

*Fatal Claw hyper damage scaling value reduced so that at max combo it does lower damage than Berserker Barrage. FC still has the advantage in utility because it can be linked and it can be used in the air.
Good change.

*Swiss Cheese has higher recovery and less block stun.
Why nerf this?

*St.H damage reduced from 95K to 80K.
Why?

*St.L hit box reduced slightly.
Why?

WESKER

*Phantom Dance hyper reworked to be the same as new Dimension Slash hyper. No more random cross ups please
Yay!

*Glasses mechanic removed.
Just rework it, don't remove it.

*Hyper counter has start up invincibility like in Vanilla but retains current scaling values.
Good.

IRON FIST (very far out wishlist but I had to do it for one character)

*Iron Fist can now double jump.
Eh.

*Iron Fist has a Wolverine-like Dive Kick.
Figure something else out.

*Cr.L hits low.
Good change.

*All Chi activations also initiate a counter attack. Red counters Low, Blue counters High and Green counters projectile. Further more Chi's have the following additional passive buffs: Red Chi enhances block damage on Rekkas, Blue Chi gives single point of armor on the forward advancing Rekkas and Green Chi gives small amount of meter even on whiffed Rekkas.
Cool change.

*Rising Fang and Shoulder Tackle moves can be performed without using Rekkas. Air OK.
Rising Fang needs changes if this is true, or he'll have a Charging Star that causes a Wall Bounce - no.

*Crescent Heel has slightly faster start up (for better air throw pick ups) and causes stagger on standing opponents.
Good change.

*Zen Mode. Utility hyper activated by down, down + 2 attacks. Cannot build meter during the hyper except on Rekka attacks. This utility hyper activates all of Iron Fist's Chis at once.
It would be interesting to give him a hit of super armor instead. None of the game's character's utilize that feature yet, and it fits in well with his pressure-oriented gameplay.
 

Azure J

Member
I wish if people would stop calling Optic Laser's fast charge time a glitch. It isn't. The charge is actually just that fast and can be negative edge'd.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Plenty of characters have easy aerial hit confirms into full combos. I need to see a better argument for why this is a problem.
The real reason for the change is that Doom isn't allowed to do like 4 relaunches and brain dead easy OTGs. The whole aerial hit confirmation means that Doom can do some additional hits before smacking them down with the Foot Dive so better skilled players will get more damage from him (players like FChamp and ShadyK already do this). Like I said you would still have stuff like throw into OTG pick up but you can't do HS MM Foot dive foot dive tri dash up HS MM Foot dive x2.

Only the assist version is changed, or the point version, too? I can agree with the former but not the latter.
Was talking about the assist version, should've made it more clear.

Magneto's damage isn't absurd.
After the nerfs to the other top tiers, his meterless damage would be really high comparatively speaking. He can already do 900K in the corner and that's due to him being able to repeat so many j.Hs in a corner. If you look at Magneto's normal moves damage, his j.H does way more damage proportionally than the rest of the moves. The move is already one of the best moves in the game. Besides I am not changing his scaling, this will only impact a bit of frontloaded damage on Magneto, he will still have great meterless damage and meter gain.


That's a lot of nerfs for a move that costs a whole bar on a character that doesn't win tournaments.
An invincible no flash hyper that has that absurd of a hit box that has that many invincible frames which leads into a combo is ALSO not only safe on block but is very +ve on block is stupidly OP. EX Seismo is like a vastly superior Bionic Arm... but it's + ve on block and allows Viper to go on the offensive as well.

Then what's the point of the move?
It's still an unblockable into full combo but on grounded opponents. If you manage to get the opponent standing in an assist, it still functions the same. Basically if you don't do anything about that unblockable she is the best character in the game because she can 1 for 3 the team potentially speaking. It's why she's top 3, nerfing the unblockable, her damage and EX Seismo makes her a very solid character but not OP.

I am fine with Viper getting the Optic Blast as an assist.

Why?

Why?
Vergil has the most brain dead happy birthday combos in the game due to his range and that all his moves are able to combo the opponent. In Vanilla that title belonged to Wolverine but they nerfed Drill Claw so that he can't easily combo 2 characters at once. People usually overlook one aspect of Vergil and that is how he is the best character in the game when it comes to getting Happy Birthday and this makes it so that he needs to be more creative with his combos and pick ups.

The 2nd why is because there is no reason for the 2nd H to be cancellable in the HSH series. It's another brain dead get out of jail free card for Vergil where he is able to make his block string safe and buy time for an assist/Round Trip or change into pressure mode. There is no other character in the game who has the options that Vergil has after his launcher. It makes the - frames after his st.H and st.S pointless, it goes against the type of character they want.

The same principle applies to Helm Breaker. Being able to cancel it into a special move on the ground and then convert that into additional pressure is EXTREMELY BRAIN DEAD and a get out of jail free card. You can't do anything against YOLO Helm Breaker on block HSH Judgment Cut. These changes would mean that Vergil players are most aware of their actions and don't go for YOLO moves all the times.


Wolverine changes
Wolverine has a shit ton of brain dead front loaded damage which is his primary problem. His st.H also has proportionally WAY too much damage compared to his other moves and it's already a move with an excellent hit box. Wolverine players will have to work a bit harder for damage out of the gate.

St.L has a pretty busted hit box. That thing anti-airs just about everything that can be anti-air'd. It should still be a great anti-air tool but just toned down slightly.

Swiss Cheese is surprisingly safe on block and sometimes rewards you for mashing. If it was meant to punish mashing Wolverines then it should do a better job of it!


The IF changes are just for the lolz mostly.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Vergil has the most brain dead happy birthday combos in the game due to his range and that all his moves are able to combo the opponent. In Vanilla that title belonged to Wolverine but they nerfed Drill Claw so that he can't easily combo 2 characters at once. People usually overlook one aspect of Vergil and that is how he is the best character in the game when it comes to getting Happy Birthday and this makes it so that he needs to be more creative with his combos and pick ups.

But Wolverine generally still has options in the event of a happy birthday. Could they limit Hightime to only strike a point character? I don't think that's an option with how the hitboxes in this game work, and the alternative leads to being punished by trying to capitalize off a happy birthday.
 
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