Support NeoGAF

[ATXAlchemy]

For the purposes of preservation, you can't assume that everyone who wants to play the preserved old game also has a properly preserved and working old console for it. This sounds dumb when you're talking about the PS2 and the 120+ million consoles which exist, but consider for example the Atari Jaguar or some console where they made considerably fewer of them.

I already commented on this, the BIOS is considered copyrighted materials and the emulator is useless without it.

Yup, this is a big point to it.

IIRC, there is even a game released on PSN by their publisher/IP owner but the copy they provided was actually a modified dump of the game obtained from the internet. I can't remember the name of the game but I think there's a neoGAF thread about it.

 

[batbeg]

Going through some dumb shit tonight but will plan on writing something out for this when I get the chance. My lack of legal jargon is no reason for my opinion to not be heard and I hope everyone takes this into consideration.

 

[thesaucetastic]

Everyone ought to write a comment for this.

 

[Stimpack]

Going through some dumb shit tonight but will plan on writing something out for this when I get the chance. My lack of legal jargon is no reason for my opinion to not be heard and I hope everyone takes this into consideration.

I agree completely.

(I don't mean to address you, specifically, with this.

It isn't about how articulate you are, and no one is expected to make million dollar speeches here. Simply taking the time to state your reasoning is enough here. Everyone has a voice, and that's what matters most. So please don't let a lack of confidence or feeling of insignificance stop you from speaking out. This has an affect on all of us, whether you realize it or not.

 

[Cyrano]

For the purposes of preservation, you can't assume that everyone who wants to play the preserved old game also has a properly preserved and working old console for it. This sounds dumb when you're talking about the PS2 and the 120+ million consoles which exist, but consider for example the Atari Jaguar or some console where they made considerably fewer of them.

Well, it will sound considerably less dumb as less of them are on the market due to breaking down over time. Digital fragility is an troubling conundrum, being both the most ubiquitous form of information yet also the most likely to be lost due to its ephemeral nature.

I would only call it a digital problem because the BIOS is not a physical but software system and all technical systems are just emulation based on a core idea. A "Playstation 4" or "Xbox One" is just a set of commands and could easily be made to run from a standard set of commands (such as a standard OS like Windows or Mac or Linux) if the system's core setup is publicly known.

The real problems for preservation are gonna start to emerge when network-streamed games become the norm (that is, games that have no local software/hardware).

 

[Leynos]

Go down the list of games that have had their online abandoned within 1-2 years. Or point to the OG xbox and OG Xbox live being completely taken down as the future for every online title.

Good example, I'll include that in my response.

Chromehounds would be a super good example of a game that was fucked because the online component was removed.

Man, the one online game that I like, and they went and killed it. Another example to put in.

 

[TC McQueen]

Okay, done with one of 3 short notices. If anyone wants some help figuring out what to say, just ask - I'll post the third section (the part where you argue for or against the exemption).

 

[KojiKnight]

I already commented on this, the BIOS is considered copyrighted materials and the emulator is useless without it.

To be fair, it's perfectly possible to reverse engineer the BIOS, it's just generally more work than it's worth to the emu authors. For example, there are several PS1 emulators with working emulated BIOS. Many GBA and DS emus also run without a BIOS (though certain aspects run with higher compatibility with one dumped).

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Okay, done with one of 3 short notices. If anyone wants some help figuring out what to say, just ask - I'll post the third section (the part where you argue for or against the exemption).

Please do, I want to send something, but I feel I need to know more about the topic. To be honest, I don't know how to fill in anything about this.

 

[Professor Renegade]

25 pages? Yikes, I don't even write essays that long.

 

[TC McQueen]

Please do, I want to send something, but I feel I need to know more about the topic. To be honest, I don't know how to fill in anything about this.

Okay, this for mobile jailbreaking. I'm still working on console jailbreaking, so it will be a while before I can get to the abandoned game one.

I support a copyright exemption for jailbreaking mobile computing devices for several reasons. First, jailbreaking can enable functionality that is unavailable in a device’s stock operating system. Given the fact that newer mobile OSes tend to suffer performance issues on older hardware, this is the only way that users of that hardware can reap the benefits of enhanced functionality without a severe usability penalty.

Second, jailbreaking can enhance functionality of existing software on a mobile device. For example, Limelight, an application that allows owners of Android tablets to play games streamed from personal computers equipped with Nvidia graphics cards, has better external mouse support if used on a jailbroken Android device. This gives users more precise control over their games and frees them from the restrictions of Android’s built in mouse support (a pre-set cursor and not being able to move the cursor beyond the boundaries of the screen).

Third, jailbreaking allows for the preservation of mobile games by allowing greater access to the files that comprise a game. On some mobile operating systems, like iOS, access to the file system is completely unavailable to users who possess a stock OS. Without complete file system access, there will be no way to extract the files and data of a game that is no longer legally available, making it impossible to backup and preserve that information for the future.

Fourth, jailbreaking allows consumers who purchase mobile devices to purge them of unwanted software. Many Android devices are sold with various applications that have dubious utility, undesirable performance impacts, and are bundled with older, more vulnerable firmware/OSes. Jailbreaking allows users to update to the latest firmware/OSes and remove unwanted applications, thereby increasing the value and utility of the device they have purchased.

Fifth and finally, a copyright exemption for jailbreaking would lower the likelihood that application developers would deliberately discriminate against consumers who have jailbroken their devices. As it stands now, some applications do not function if they detect some sign that the device is jailbroken. For example, the Android streaming TV application for Bright House Networks refuses to work if Android Debug Bridge (ADB), a developer tool often used in the jailbreaking process, is enabled. This is most likely due to the mistaken assumption consumers who jailbreak devices are interested in piracy, when most jailbreakers are simply consumers who wish to use the device they bought without artificial restrictions and limitations imposed by the software developers and device manufacturers.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

wow this is super important ! :O

 

[TC McQueen]

Okay, here's stuff for jailbreaking consoles:

I support a copyright exemption for jailbreaking video game consoles for several reasons. First, it would end discrimination by hardware manufacturers against consumers who jailbreak their consoles. Unlike mobile devices, where jailbreakers can legally purchase software from the online stores and access purchased applications freely, jailbroken consoles running custom firmware (CFW) are often locked out of the stores and risk being banned from online gaming accounts. This forces consumers to either buy redundant hardware or turn to piracy to make full use of their hardware.

Second, jailbreaking consoles helps further game preservation. In an era where games can only exist in digital form and all game updates are purely digital, console jailbreaking is literally the only way to preserve a game if it is removed from sale, which typically occurs due to licensing issues. Even if a game is not removed from sale, a jailbroken console may be needed to extract BIOS, downloadable content (DLC), and updates to ensure full preservation and proper emulation on other systems.

Third, jailbreaking consoles enhances the functionality of the hardware. For example, jailbroken PlayStation 2s (PS2s) can use USB flash drives for storage of game saves and games, features that Sony could have enabled, but never did. Likewise, many jailbroken consoles and handhelds support a wide range of emulators and software that increase the value and utility of the hardware at little to no extra cost by providing services the manufacturer would never provide.

Fourth and finally, CFW provides competition to official firmware, incentive to improve the product, and consumer protection against console design decisions aimed at extracting exorbitant payments for basic functionality. For example, Sony’s PlayStation TV (PS TV) console, much like the PS2, has USB ports, but forces consumers to buy proprietary memory cards that are roughly twice the price of equivalent USB flash or SD card memory. If a PS TV CFW existed, such functionality might be enabled, saving consumers money and protecting them from Sony’s memory monopoly. Also, a PS TV CFW would enable the use of free emulators that outperform Sony’s own emulators. Without a copyright exemption for jailbreaking consoles, Sony could crush any efforts to develop CFW under the pretense of protecting its IP and consumers, instead of improving its own firmware and software. For example, the Amazon Fire TV, a multimedia device/game console, recently added USB storage support to its operating system due to demand and widespread jailbreaking for that feature. As a result, jailbreaking gives consumers another way to motivate console manufacturers to improve their consoles in beneficial ways.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Thanks, McQueen, I still haven't found which Class is each of the things you're posting about. I feel like this is made so that people just don't do anything. Agh.

 

[TC McQueen]

Thanks, McQueen, I still haven't found which Class is each of the things you're posting about. I feel like this is made so that people just don't do anything. Agh.

Class 17 is jailbreaking mobile devices, Class 19 is jailbreaking consoles, and Class 23 is abandoned video games.

 

[Kasper]

Excuse my ignorance when it comes to jailbreaking, but would allowing it for consoles result in pirates being able to access online services for games and such, or even create their own servers? Or does the developers and publishers have other means in place to stop that kind of thing?

Because if allowing jailbreaking results in pirates having an easier time, then I can't say I'm in favor at all.

 

[mclem]

This is the question I was going to ask when I read the OP. I have an interest in ensuring looser restrictions on abandoned games, but I'm not American.

Anyone?

The thing is, what they decide *will* affect people outside the US as well, quite significantly. In my eyes that's a good enough reason to voice an opinion.

I think looking at the attitude that many (but alas not all) of the people behind the ZX Spectrum have shown is a good measure of the right way of doing things. Here's the page on copyrights from the biggest archive.

 

[Stike]

Excuse my ignorance when it comes to jailbreaking, but would allowing it for consoles result in pirates being able to access online services for games and such, or even create their own servers? Or does the developers and publishers have other means in place to stop that kind of thing?

Because if allowing jailbreaking results in pirates having an easier time, then I can't say I'm in favor at all.

It is about opening ABANDONED products that have stopped generating any profit.

If something is being "open sourced", yes, it can be duplicated and used any way you wish - if a product is not abandoned and the IP and other stuff are still used, it is piracy.

However, if it is not used, a legacy product which is of no further use, it should be made available publicly. For archives, for education, for cultural/historical reasons.

 

[TC McQueen]

Excuse my ignorance when it comes to jailbreaking, but would allowing it for consoles result in pirates being able to access online services for games and such, or even create their own servers? Or does the developers and publishers have other means in place to stop that kind of thing?

Because if allowing jailbreaking results in pirates having an easier time, then I can't say I'm in favor at all.

All this does is make it difficult/illegal for a company like Sony to screw you over if you jailbreak your PS TV (for example) to enable better PS1 emulation/whatever. Technically pirates will also benefit, but that would always exist unless the root causes and incentives were dealt with.

Also, most developers/publishers who give a shit have cheat detection methods, since you can already do this sort of stuff on a lot of consoles. It probably won't encourage piracy since legalizing jailbreaking would force Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo to let people buy stuff off the stores, instead of locking you out because you don't have the latest firmware and making it impossible to buy anything legally.

 

[Kasper]

It is about opening ABANDONED products that have stopped generating any profit.

If something is being "open sourced", yes, it can be duplicated and used any way you wish - if a product is not abandoned and the IP and other stuff are still used, it is piracy.

However, if it is not used, a legacy product which is of no further use, it should be made available publicly. For archives, for education, for cultural/historical reasons.

But that's what Class 23 is about, not Class 19, which states that it concerns both old and current consoles. That's why I asked.

EDIT:

All this does is make it difficult/illegal for a company like Sony to screw you over if you jailbreak your PS TV (for example) to enable better PS1 emulation/whatever.

Also, most developers/publishers who give a shit have cheat detection methods, since you can already do this sort of stuff on a lot of consoles. It probably won't encourage piracy since legalizing jailbreaking would force Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo to let people buy stuff off the stores, instead of locking you out because you don't have the latest firmware and making it impossible to buy anything legally.

Thanks for the clarification, McQueen.

 

[Messofanego]

You may spend too much time on GAF talking about games rather than playing, but everyone on this forum should write a comment.

Exactly, this is the perfect place to get comments from.

 

[Messofanego]

25 pages? Yikes, I don't even write essays that long.

Are you sending a comment on a legal and evidentiary basis? 25 pages is the absolute limit.

Most people here would be sending comments on a more general support basis.

"For those commenters who wish to briefly express general support for or opposition to a proposed exemption, the Office is providing a recommended short comment form. Short comments should be limited to no more than one page (which may be single-spaced but should be in at least 12-point type).

Comments and associated documentary evidence (but not multimedia evidence) should be uploaded as a single combined file via the comment submission page."

 

[wildfire]

Interesting. So it seems the major classes that effect videogames are the ones below:



The first half of the classes (not outlined here) are largely related to exemptions for use of materials for educational purposes (which should technically fall under fair use exemptions to begin with, but yay Americuh)

These are the major classes which effect videogames specifically, though there are other exemption classes for devices that could potentially be used for videogames as well. So if there's a game you feel adamant about that you think might not be covered by the above classes it's not a bad idea to try and find the class that does or propose an extension of a class.

Thanks for sifting through that. I've updated the OP with your notes.

 

[TC McQueen]

Here's stuff for the abandoned games (I feel this weaker than the others, but that's because there's fewer points):

I support a copyright exemption for abandoned video games requiring server communication for several reasons. First, it allows consumers to keep playing games that they have purchased without resorting to piracy or using hacks that may install malware into their gaming systems.

Second, it allows for greater preservation of video games by individuals and organizations alike. As games become more and more dependent on servers for Digital Rights Management (DRM) and multiplayer functionality, the more complex and troublesome preservation becomes. Multiplayer, for example, is practically impossible to preserve in modern games because many games do not allow non-developers to host their own servers, even on the PC. In several cases, the multiplayer component of a game is crucial to progression in the single player component. For example, the Xbox 360 game Chromehounds is essentially unplayable without the multiplayer. The game focuses on the customization of giant robots; a great many parts for customization are unlocked by interacting with other players online in a persistent universe. Without a way to create a new Chromehounds server, no one will ever be able to experience the game as it was designed. This reflects the growing reality of modern gaming: if the servers are not online, the game will not work.

Games that require online activation/recurring checks are also dependent on servers being active. Once they are abandoned, it is impossible to install or run them without downloading third-party hacks to bypass the activation requirements. Without a copyright exemption for bypassing server checks and activation, game preservation will largely be dominated by software pirates and individual users, because no reputable organization would risk running afoul of the law or being sued for copyright infringement/violations. Since game publishers generally do not care about game preservation except when it can be done cheaply and profitably, obtaining legal permission and technical support for most titles will likely be very difficult, if not impossible. A copyright exemption for abandoned games grants individuals and organizations the peace of mind to proceed with a preservation project and frees up resources (particularly time and money) that would be better utilized deciphering and discovering ways to preserve the functionality and data of these highly complexes pieces of software.

Also, looking at some of the comments they got for the earlier comment solicitations, it's clear someone was passing around a form letter, because the Chapter 19 comments are mostly the same. I've skimmed 94 pages of nearly identical comments that are pretty fucking weak in terms of arguing the benefits of jailbreaking consoles. Everyone on GAF copypasting my stuff would be a massive improvement over the stuff they got earlier.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Thank you both Cyrano and TC McQueen, I've submited to the three classes. Hope it does a difference.

I'm not even American, but without these 3 exemptions (most importantly class 19 and 23), videogame preservation would be seriously harmed, it also protects consumers' rights, so I'm glad I could contribute my drop to the ocean.

Anyway people, get on this and start commenting, use the short comment form (so you don't have to make a long document, with evidence, etc.) and fill in "Proposed Class Addressed" this information (dug up by Cyrano):

Proposed Class 17: Jailbreaking – all-purpose mobile computing devices

Proposed Class 19: Jailbreaking – video game consoles

Proposed Class 23: Abandoned software – video games requiring server communication

And then, if you don't know what else to add, copy paste TC McQueen's posts on each class (Class 17, Class 19, Class 23).

After filling the document, it can be uploaded in this submission page.

You don't have to be American, do as I did and just input "Other" when it asks you for State. As it was said, these are important matters and we can make a difference.

Also, looking at some of the comments they got for the earlier comment solicitations, it's clear someone was passing around a form letter, because the Chapter 19 comments are mostly the same. I've skimmed 94 pages of nearly identical comments that are pretty fucking weak in terms of arguing the benefits of jailbreaking consoles. Everyone on GAF copypasting my stuff would be a massive improvement over the stuff they got earlier.

Yep, I made variations of what you posted. Again, thanks.

 

[ekgrey]

Bump for importance. I'll try to leave comments before the deadline but am swamped with school stuff at the moment.

Regardless, this needs all the visibility it can get.

 

[Steel]

I'm really surprised this thread hasn't gotten more attention. It's pretty important.

 

[ShadowKingpin]

I'll definitely write a short-form comment to help keep this going. Also, I want to bump this thread.

 

[RockTurtle]

so...CHROMEHOUNDS can come back to life!?!

EDIT: definitely going to write a small detailed essay. i think it would help to also link journals that concentrate on copyright law to better pad the arguments

 

[TC McQueen]

so...CHROMEHOUNDS can come back to life!?!

EDIT: definitely going to write a small detailed essay. i think it would help to also link journals that concentrate on copyright law to better pad the arguments

Padding the arguments is a bad idea on the short form comments. They only allow you to use one page, which is why Juan29 is encouraging people to copypaste my arguments if they can't figure out what to write - my stuff is guaranteed to fit in a single spaced one page document.

 

[The Technomancer]

25 pages? Yikes, I don't even write essays that long.

I guarantee you that that woman who's whole personal crusade is video game archival is preparing a big document for them right now.

 

[RockTurtle]

Padding the arguments is a bad idea on the short form comments. They only allow you to use one page, which is why Juan29 is encouraging people to copypaste my arguments if they can't figure out what to write - my stuff is guaranteed to fit in a single spaced one page document.

true dat

 

[Deleted member 80556]

I guarantee you that that woman who's whole personal crusade is video game archival is preparing a big document for them right now.

I hope she is. BTW, is that woman the same one who lost support because of GG? That thread was depressing.

Has anyone else submitted a comment? I'm curious if more Gaffers are interested in this.

 

[TC McQueen]

If anyone is doing a longer document with media citations or want something to put in the short form of the console copyright exemption, here's a good example of a good use of console jailbreaking:

Surprised this hasn't been posted yet: A hacker claims to have found a way to make 90% of Vita games playable on PSTV. He demonstrates that in a video where he boots up and plays Uncharted: Golden Abyss, among others.

 

[TC McQueen]

Quick update - hearings have been scheduled for the copyright exemption proposals, so if you can go to UCLA, you can see the hearings for video game related copyright exemptions. The date and times are posted below:

May 20, 2015—UCLA School of Law, Room 1314

1:45pm-3:45pm: Proposed Class 23: Abandoned software – video games requiring server communication
This proposed class would allow circumvention of TPMs on lawfully acquired video games consisting of communication with a developer-operated server for the purpose of either authentication or to enable multiplayer matchmaking, where developer support for those server communications has ended. This exception would not apply to video games whose audiovisual content is primarily stored on the developer’s server, such as massive multiplayer online role-playing games.

Participants:
• Proponents:
o Catherine Gellis, Digital Age Defense
o Ian Finder, Museum of Art and Digital Entertainment
o Jason Scott, Internet Archive
o Kendra Albert, Law Student, Harvard Law School
o Parham Gholami, Azentium
o Mitch Stoltz, Electronic Frontier Foundation

• Opponents:
o J. Matthew Williams, Entertainment Software Association, Motion Picture Association of America, Recording Industry Association of America (Joint Creators and Copyright
Owners)
o Simon J. Frankel, Entertainment Software Association

4:00pm-5:00pm: Proposed Class 19: Jailbreaking – video game consoles
This proposed class would permit the jailbreaking of home video game consoles. Asserted noninfringing uses include installing alternative operating systems, running lawfully acquired applications, preventing the reporting of personal usage information to the manufacturer, and removing region locks. The requested exemption would apply both to older and currently marketed game consoles.

Participants:
• Proponents:
o Catherine Gellis, Digital Age Defense
o Kyle Wiens, iFixit

• Opponents:
o J. Matthew Williams, Entertainment Software Association, Motion Picture Association of America, Recording Industry Association of America (Joint Creators and Copyright
Owners)
o Simon J. Frankel, Entertainment Software Association

 

[TC McQueen]

The comments from the May 1 deadline are finally up.

GAF comment breakdown:
-3 out of 9 comments on jailbreaking general purpose computing devices (tablets, et cetera) (2 were opposing the exemption b/c vehicle stuff could fit into the category).
-7 out of 7 for jailbreaking consoles.
-9 out of 13 for preserving abandoned games w/ server communication (eBay, EFF, Digital Right to Repair, and the Preservation and Reformatting Section of the Association for Library Collections and Technical Services also replied).

 

[Peltz]

Damn, how did I miss this? I would have loved to draft something.

 

[Squishy3]

"This exception would not apply to video games whose audiovisual content is primarily stored on the developer’s server, such as massive multiplayer online role-playing games."

So they're telling me FFXIV and GW2's graphics and audio are entirely stored on Square and Arenanet's servers? Why did I download all that data then?

 

[TC McQueen]

Damn, how did I miss this? I would have loved to draft something.

You missed it because there was only activity for four days, then a single bump four days later.

The sad part is that this thread is way more active than the one I made on another forum I frequent, which died after two posts.

 

[TC McQueen]

Copyright Office has finally put up transcripts of the hearings:
Class 17 (general mobile device jailbreaking)
Class 19 (console jailbreaking)
Class 23 (abandoned games)

I have not read these yet, I'm posting the links now in case my internet gets knocked out again for the third or fourth time in 2 days.

 

[Two Pikachus]

I'm at work now but I really hope there's a good synopsis of the hearings when I get home

 

[RockTurtle]

Copyright Office has finally put up transcripts of the hearings:
Class 17 (general mobile device jailbreaking)
Class 19 (console jailbreaking)
Class 23 (abandoned games)

I have not read these yet, I'm posting the links now in case my internet gets knocked out again for the third or fourth time in 2 days.

thank you!

 

[CadetMahoney]

"This exception would not apply to video games whose audiovisual content is primarily stored on the developer’s server, such as massive multiplayer online role-playing games."

So they're telling me FFXIV and GW2's graphics and audio are entirely stored on Square and Arenanet's servers? Why did I download all that data then?

Yea, games usually don't stream 1080p high-bitrate cutscenes and audio They're probably just covering their asses for some minor games that do.

I'm at work now but I really hope there's a good synopsis of the hearings when I get home

cliffs?

 

[TC McQueen]

Class 23 Summary:
Journey developer points out its multiplayer nature makes it hard to put in any museum and how people today are being affected by the games they play; he gives “very moving explanation of the cultural value of video games.” Journey dev states that Sony has to authorize Journey’s use in a museum.

EFF guy talks about how multiplayer & authentication server shutdowns screw over gamers, GameSpy shutting down, how devs/publishers only help preserve MP communities some of the time, is asked about whether restoring MGSO 1&2 required jailbreaking consoles, and how the people who want to keep playing these games would pay money for them. EFF guy gets asked about what happens to MP communities when games shutdown, explains that some try to record data to recreate servers, explains that paying for MP on consoles is a recent thing.

Digital Defense says that they just want an exemption that covers circumventing TPMs that keep people from playing legit copies of the game. Director of Azentium studio used to be film preservationist, talk about how the DMCA shits on the idea of ownership, talks about Chromehounds (!) and his experience with it.

Some dude named Stolz talks about preserving games from the personal POV, points out that single-player/online co-op/online MP are vastly different, reminds the Copyright Office that many SP games can’t be played once servers shutdown, mentions the hardware dongle copyright exemption, and mentions how legal compliance screws over legit institutions trying to preserve stuff. This segues into a long discussion of how to duplicate game servers and whether jailbreaking consoles is necessary.

ESA and their friends say some stuff and jump to Smart TVs for some reason. Stoltz talks about why MMOs are not included in this exemption, Director of Azentium talks about Mystic Knights and how the servers only handled MP matching, that Mystic Knights barely exists on the internet (few screencaps, nothing more), EFF person says that preserving games means preserving gameplay to most people, ESA says that game publishers do re-release some games; Journey dev talks about trying to preserve the experience of the game, not just the code; Stoltz points out that a lot of games that need preservation are orphan works; EFF person explains why people can’t always get permission to recreate servers; ESA admits that most games can’t switch out IP addresses to connect with new servers.

Class 19 Summary (this hearing took place AFTER Class 23 hearing):
EFF argues for greater control of the devices. iFixIt points out that not being able to mix and match console mobos and optical drives ups the cost of console repairs/parts kits; all they want is the ability to reflash the optical drive. Saurik talks in depth about (iPhone) jailbreaking, how he didn’t support a PS3 jailbreak store b/c he knew Geohot would get sued. Anti-jailbreaking people point out piracy, etc... Lots of arguments about how TPMs work, whether or not circumvention is necessary for repairing consoles, whether or not the exemption should be just for the 360 and PS3, whether copyright protections can be reenabled on jailbroken consoles, and Saurik arguing that saying an alternative exists is just a fancy way of blocking exemptions.

 

[KissVibes]

Won't publishers just start holding onto their rights better or digging up "abandoned" games?

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Thank you for making summaries, TC.

When are we bound to hear about the results of this?

 

[TC McQueen]

Thank you for making summaries, TC.

When are we bound to hear about the results of this?

Based on the date for the last one, I think October is when they come out and release a final statement.

Also, I'm not doing a summary of Class 17, since a ton of it is Saurik arguing about how the OSes are all the same across a range of devices and I'm not sure there's anything really relevant to gaming in here.

 

[cooljeanius]

Based on the date for the last one, I think October is when they come out and release a final statement.

Also, I'm not doing a summary of Class 17, since a ton of it is Saurik arguing about how the OSes are all the same across a range of devices and I'm not sure there's anything really relevant to gaming in here.

There's a little bit of gaming-related stuff in that one; he cites the Game Genie, for example...

 

[RockTurtle]

thanks for summary TC.

Man chromehounds is the gift that keeps on giving!

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Based on the date for the last one, I think October is when they come out and release a final statement.

Also, I'm not doing a summary of Class 17, since a ton of it is Saurik arguing about how the OSes are all the same across a range of devices and I'm not sure there's anything really relevant to gaming in here.

Thanks! I think that would guarantee a new thread when the verdict comes out.