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[mocoworm]

Did a search and couldn't find this.

Click link for FULL article:

http://www.edge-online.com/features...c-feedback-motors-make-a-profound-difference/

Valve might control gaming on the desktop, but now its gaze is fixed on another room in the house. The three announcements the company made at the end of September – SteamOS, Steam Machines and Steam Controller – reveal its plans to pry open the traditional console’s grip on the living room. The lines between the two are clearly drawn: the closed console against an open-source operating system built on Linux and optimised for gaming; hardware made from standard PC components that owners will be able to chop, change and upgrade at their leisure; and a controller unlike its console peers.[/IMG]

“I can certainly see that for many people [the controller] will be the silver bullet that tips them into sticking a PC under their TV,” says Rob Bartholomew, brand director of the Total War series at The Creative Assembly, who has used a Steam Controller. It’s a key part of the ‘Steam Box’ concept: the bridge between the mouse-and-keyboard game and sofa-bound players, and it’s the first developmental leap forward for the controller since Wii’s Remote.

Steam Controller certainly has a lot of responsibility resting on its familiar-looking shoulder buttons. It takes the basic form set by Sony’s first DualShock in 1997 of twin grips and thumb-based directional controls, but as well as being recognisable, it needs to offer flexibility and fidelity of control that at least matches a standard 104-key keyboard and 800dpi mouse, while feeling comfortable in the hands. Or, framed in other terms, it needs to allow a Dota 2 player to be competitive against desktop opponents. As Valve’s Greg Coomer told us last year, “That’s one of the cases we’re looking at: how can you deliver an even better play experience than people have sitting at a desk? We want to accomplish it with a traditional gamepad.

Valve’s solution is dual trackpads in the place of thumbsticks, and a configurable touchscreen. The trackpads are evidently sensitive to gaming’s haptic demands. Concentric ridges in the pad help inform you where your thumb is in relation to the centre, while a subtle range of buzzes from dual linear resonant actuators provide a sense of interaction, force and the bounds of control. “Personally, I initially thought it all sounded a bit [like a] novelty and I couldn’t see how it would compare to thumbsticks if you were playing an FPS, for example,” Bartholomew says. “Having used it, though [for Counter-Strike Global Offensive and Total War: Rome II], it really is surprising how much the haptic feedback motors make a profound difference. No, it’s not exactly the same, but it very much won me over.”

Fredrik Wester, CEO of Paradox Interactive, agrees, having played a thirdperson action game with it: “Once you start playing, it’s not that different from console gamepad joysticks; it felt natural after five minutes, so I didn’t think that much about it, to be honest.””

 

[TekGryphon]

Absolute positional input on a hand held controller is simply amazing. Between this and the ever-increasing resolution of Occulus Rift kits, next-gen (real next-gen, on PC) is going to be incredible.

 

[FranXico]

That is true innovation, right there.

 

[Skid 4 Dead]

I'd really like to try it. Atleast before I bought it.

 

[ZiggyRoXx]

I still don't see how it will work for fighting games.....keep those 360/One/PS4 pads close by I guess.

 

[Creaking]

Absolute positional input on a hand held controller is simply amazing. Between this and the ever-increasing resolution of Occulus Rift kits, next-gen (real next-gen, on PC) is going to be incredible.

Oh come on.

 

[Bronetta]

I feel like this is something I would have to try out in my own hands to truly understand it. Until then, I just see two trackpads replacing analog sticks. No amount of pictures or words can change that.

 

[TekGryphon]

I still don't see how it will work for fighting games.....keep those 360/One/PS4 pads close by I guess.

It probably won't. Relative positional input is great for fighting games, flight sims, and probably a few other genres (platformers?).

What the Steam controller does is bring precision needed for strategy and shooting games to a hand held controller.

Oh come on.

I liked your previous comment better, but let's be serious here.

We've got PC looking at titles that are in development right now (Star Citizen being my favorite) that will, upon release, make use of 4k resolutions, the Occulus Rift, and the first absolute positional input handheld controller.

You're welcome to call PS4 and Xbone struggling to hit 1080p/60fps "next-gen" but, if that's the case, then we need to think up a new name for where the PC market is at.

"Super next-gen"? I don't know, but the distinction needs to be made.

 

[Tacitus_]

It probably won't. Relative positional input is great for fighting games, flight sims, and probably a few other genres (platformers?).

What the Steam controller does is bring precision needed for strategy and shooting games to a hand held controller.

Maybe, maybe not. The demo video certainly didn't look convincing. I mean, sure, it worked, but about as good as the touchpad from a laptop and those are awful compared to a proper mouse.

 

[TekGryphon]

Maybe, maybe not. The demo video certainly didn't look convincing. I mean, sure, it worked, but about as good as the touchpad from a laptop and those are awful compared to a proper mouse.

I guess we'll have to see. The first hand experiences I've read suggest that its far, far more advanced than a "laptop touchpad". The ability to section off areas of each touchpad, the concentric circles and haptic feedback, and the resolution alone suggests that it's a poor comparison.

 

[Smash]

Maybe, maybe not. The demo video certainly didn't look convincing. I mean, sure, it worked, but about as good as the touchpad from a laptop and those are awful compared to a proper mouse.

Yeah I agree, I can't even imagine how that could work decently with some genres.

 

[Tacitus_]

I guess we'll have to see. The first hand experiences I've read suggest that its far, far more advanced than a "laptop touchpad". The ability to section off areas of each touchpad, the concentric circles and haptic feedback, and the resolution alone suggests that it's a poor comparison.

I'm judging it off the demo video they released and the cursor movements looked.. awkward would probably be the best word for it. But, they've still got time to tweak it.

 

[Dennis]

Can I use this with my regular PC or will it only work together with the Steambox?

 

[CecilRousso]

It probably won't. Relative positional input is great for fighting games, flight sims, and probably a few other genres (platformers?).

What the Steam controller does is bring precision needed for strategy and shooting games to a hand held controller.

Well, the Super Meat Boy dev thought it was excellent for Super Meat Boy, which sounds promising for those types of games.

 

[immortal-joe]

Wont even attempt to form an opinion until I get my hands on it. For now, all I can say is that I'm extremely cautious.

Can I use this with my regular PC or will it only work together with the Steambox?

Works with a regular PC, and there's talk of full input customization.

 

[Orbis]

Maybe, maybe not. The demo video certainly didn't look convincing. I mean, sure, it worked, but about as good as the touchpad from a laptop and those are awful compared to a proper mouse.

I'd imagine it will overcome some of the issues with a touchpad, including lack of feedback. Initial feedback has been positive also. But anyone who thinks this will beat an actual mouse is missing the point really; it's not supposed to. If it can provide some kind of half-way between an analogue stick and a mouse, and the rest of the controller is decent, it has achieved its goal and may well become a dominant controller in the PC market.

 

[Varth]

then we need to think up a new name for where the PC market is at.

"Super next-gen"? I don't know, but the distinction needs to be made.

I Think "PC market" fits it. Unless we're at the point where "the distinction needs to be made" between PC players and rampant PC fanboys. From the master race meme onward this kind of behaviour has become quite annoying.

Dunno if I'm the only one feeling like this, but shouldn't this kind of shit be moderated by the staff and ridiculed by the users like any other kind of fanboyism? Or it gets a free pass for some reason I can't understand?

 

[kartu]

So Valve (a near monopolist in PC game distribution, with 50-70% of the market share, afraid of Microsoft Store ending its dominance) needs to convince:

1) Devs to start using OpenGL instead of/in parallel with DirectX for the sake of what exactly?
2) Gamers to jump to the Linux platform, for the sake of loving Steam platform
3) Gamers to abandon mouse/keyboard for the sake of gaming in a living room

Isn't it a bit too adventurous?

 

[jerry1594]

Can I use this with my regular PC or will it only work together with the Steambox?

There's probably a 100% chance that you'll be able to somehow.

 

[JaseC]

Dunno if I'm the only one feeling like this, but shouldn't this kind of shit be moderated by the staff and ridiculed by the users like any other kind of fanboyism? Or it gets a free pass for some reason I can't understand?

"Master race" and similar phrases are frowned upon. Thread titles that contain such terms are altered and those who insist upon using them to disparage "console peasants" are temporarily banned.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Yeah I agree, I can't even imagine how that could work decently with some genres.

It won't. The concept is to give an adequate replacement for kb/m, not to replace the use of all pads/peripherals that are more suited to certain genres. No one will be throwing their 360 pads away.

 

[CecilRousso]

1) Devs to start using OpenGL instead of/in parallel with DirectX for the sake of what exactly?

Linux and/or less Microsoft dependencies.

2) Gamers to jump to the Linux platform, for the sake of loving Steam platform

And/or less Microsoft depenencies, which is a good thing since Microsoft doesn't see a future in the PC platform, they're focused on moving to tablets.

3) Gamers to abandon mouse/keyboard for the sake of gaming in a living room
Isn't it a bit too adventurous?

It's an alternative, not the standard. You will be able Steam controller or mouse+keyboard on both regular PC's and Steam boxes.

 

[Vhalyar]

No one will be throwing their 360 pads away.

Except maybe to replace them with the DS4 :3

 

[Varth]

"Master race" and similar phrases are frowned upon.

It's not really a "banned meme" thing to me. More like an looming, insufferable, childish behaviour in every PC-related thread.

 

[Seanspeed]

I liked your previous comment better, but let's be serious here.

We've got PC looking at titles that are in development right now (Star Citizen being my favorite) that will, upon release, make use of 4k resolutions, the Occulus Rift, and the first absolute positional input handheld controller.

You're welcome to call PS4 and Xbone struggling to hit 1080p/60fps "next-gen" but, if that's the case, then we need to think up a new name for where the PC market is at.

"Super next-gen"? I don't know, but the distinction needs to be made.

PC doesn't have 'generations'.

 

[jeffers]

So Valve (a near monopolist in PC game distribution, with 50-70% of the market share, afraid of Microsoft Store ending its dominance) needs to convince:

1) Devs to start using OpenGL instead of/in parallel with DirectX for the sake of what exactly?
2) Gamers to jump to the Linux platform, for the sake of loving Steam platform
3) Gamers to abandon mouse/keyboard for the sake of gaming in a living room

Isn't it a bit too adventurous?

what cecil said, but also for 2) you dont have to jump anywhere, steam is still on windows. this is just more choice, less being tied to one OS. the first 2 are good things for everyone (except MS).

 

[MutonCommander]

Dunno if I'm the only one feeling like this, but shouldn't this kind of shit be moderated by the staff and ridiculed by the users like any other kind of fanboyism? Or it gets a free pass for some reason I can't understand?

Maybe because it's true?

Edit: to clarify, the part about PC being way beyond next-gen already is definitely true. Not talking about the "master race stuff" which I've only seen used in a clearly light-hearted tone. I think that very few people take it seriously.

 

[Durante]

Isn't it a bit too adventurous?

If you freely make up additional points to pad your list which directly contradict Valve's own FAQ then it sure sounds like it.

 

[le.phat]

Can't wait to try this out! The controller might look rediculous, but if they pull this off, we might make both controllers and mouse/keyboard control redundant in one fell swoop.

 

[Monty Mole]

Intrigued by this. I just don't see how it can work well for many game genres, but Gabe ain't stupid so there must be something to it.

Can't wait to get hands on, really does seem like something from the future.

 

[Tacitus_]

I'd imagine it will overcome some of the issues with a touchpad, including lack of feedback. Initial feedback has been positive also. But anyone who thinks this will beat an actual mouse is missing the point really; it's not supposed to. If it can provide some kind of half-way between an analogue stick and a mouse, and the rest of the controller is decent, it has achieved its goal and may well become a dominant controller in the PC market.

People speak of it (and the steambox/os) like the second coming of Jesus so I tend to be more on the cynical side of it here
I recognize that it's not really aimed at me and I'm more than content to continue with m/kb and x360 controller.

 

[sirap]

I'd probably shit my pants if I ever dropped one of these things.

 

[angular graphics]

So Valve (a near monopolist in PC game distribution, with 50-70% of the market share, afraid of Microsoft Store ending its dominance) needs to convince:

1) Devs to start using OpenGL instead of/in parallel with DirectX for the sake of what exactly?
2) Gamers to jump to the Linux platform, for the sake of loving Steam platform
3) Gamers to abandon mouse/keyboard for the sake of gaming in a living room

Isn't it a bit too adventurous?

Holy shit. This post.

 

[MutonCommander]

People speak of it (and the steambox/os) like the second coming of Jesus so I tend to be more on the cynical side of it here

Depending on what you're looking for, Steam Machines are either completely irrelevant or indeed the second coming of gaming Jesus. For people who'd like the simplicity and couch-friendliness of a console with the power and freedom of a PC, it's a very exciting prospect.

 

[Seanspeed]

I'd probably shit my pants if I every dropped one of these things.

Probably less likely to break something than with a dual analog controller, surely?

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Except maybe to replace them with the DS4 :3

On that note, i wonder how those who are averse to symmetrical stick placement will get on with the trackpad symmetry.

 

[Dennis]

So Valve (a near monopolist in PC game distribution, with 50-70% of the market share, afraid of Microsoft Store ending its dominance) needs to convince:

1) Devs to start using OpenGL instead of/in parallel with DirectX for the sake of what exactly?
2) Gamers to jump to the Linux platform, for the sake of loving Steam platform
3) Gamers to abandon mouse/keyboard for the sake of gaming in a living room

Isn't it a bit too adventurous?

Much as it pains me I am forced to concede that Valve is D00med.

Time to proof-read your exit strategy, Gabe.

 

[angular graphics]

Probably less likely to break something than with a dual analog controller, surely?

It has a screen so I dunno.

 

[Seanspeed]

It has a screen so I dunno.

Oh yea, wasn't thinking about that.

 

[TekGryphon]

It won't. The concept is to give an adequate replacement for kb/m, not to replace the use of all pads/peripherals that are more suited to certain genres. No one will be throwing their 360 pads away.

This. Especially if we can easily switch between a wireless Xbone/PS4 controller and a wireless Steam Controller.

PC doesn't have 'generations'.

It doesn't?

I mean, I recognize that the advancements are more smooth, but you can pretty easily go back and say "Year 20XX was when 720p/60FPS became mainstream" or "Year 20XX was when 1080p/60FPS became mainstream".

Right now, for example, we're pretty clearly in the 1440p/60FPS era, with 2160p on the horizon.

 

[The Mana Legend]

I know little of this controller other than the pictures.

Since they are touchpads, would it be possible to use the controller as a mouse of sorts? If so, would it be possible to play older, mouse+keyboard games with this controller?

 

[sirap]

Oh yea, wasn't thinking about that.

Not only that, but all those tiny, perfectly calibrated motors remind me too much of headphones or camera rangefinders. One drop is enough to mess everything up

 

[angular graphics]

I know little of this controller other than the pictures.

Since they are touchpads, would it be possible to use the controller as a mouse of sorts? If so, would it be possible to play older, mouse+keyboard games with this controller?

Yes and yes!

 

[Seanspeed]

It doesn't?

I mean, I recognize that the advancements are more smooth, but you can pretty easily go back and say "Year 20XX was when 720p/60FPS became mainstream" or "Year 20XX was when 1080p/60FPS became mainstream".

Right now, for example, we're pretty clearly in the 1440p/60FPS era, with 2160p on the horizon.

No, it doesn't. Its always just gradual advancement. You say we're in the 1440p era, but I would guess the vast majority of PC gamers are still at 1080p. I mean, people are already gaming at 4k, so why wouldn't you say we're in the 4k era? It makes little sense to make distinctions like this, since you aren't seemingly choosing the 'era' by any specific qualifications.

Things just work differently on the PC. I mean, when people talk about 'next-gen' or 'current gen', its pretty obvious they are talking about consoles anyways. Its a bit of a semantics thing that I think is important to understand in order to avoid pointless bickering in the future, ya know?

Not only that, but all those tiny, perfectly calibrated motors remind me too much of headphones or camera rangefinders. One drop is enough to mess everything up

Also a good point.

 

[jerry1594]

Oh yea, wasn't thinking about that.

Also since its disassemblable it seems fragile in general.

 

[angular graphics]

Also since its disassemblable it seems fragile in general.

On the plus side it might be cheaper to repair this way?

 

[moggio]

Also since its disassemblable it seems fragile in general.

The disassembly of the prototype?

 

[Sentenza]

I still don't see how it will work for fighting games...

I'm really not sure why people seem to think this would be a specific problem of this gamepad.
If anything, I can see this thing working better with fighting games than other genres.
At least for Street Fighter-style movesets.

 

[The Mana Legend]

Yes and yes!

Oh shit, Day 1.

I love mouse and keyboard gameplay, but it's too cumbersome to play with my living room setup (not a fan of having a giant board on my lap with a keyboard and mouse on it).

 

[TekGryphon]

I'm really not sure why people seem to think this would be a specific problem of this gamepad.
If anything, I can see this thing working better with fighting games than other genres.
At least for Street Fighter-style movesets.

Are you a proficient fighter-game enthusiest? I'm not, so I'm just going on conventionally accepted wisdom that relative positional inputs (joysticks) are preferably to absolute positional inputs (mouse).

If you think it's the other way around, I'd love to hear your rationale.

No, it doesn't. Its always just gradual advancement. You say we're in the 1440p era, but I would guess the vast majority of PC gamers are still at 1080p. I mean, people are already gaming at 4k, so why wouldn't you say we're in the 4k era? It makes little sense to make distinctions like this, since you aren't seemingly choosing the 'era' by any specific qualifications.

I used the term "mainstream" in measuring the resolution eras. It's not a specific science, sure, but it isn't for the consoles either (as the "next-gens" are waffling between 720, 900, and 1080).

1440 is now used across the board on performance tests for GPUs (even mid and low tier GPUs), while 4k is only tested on a handful of extreme enthusiast sites and even then only with the highest end GPU SKUs.

That, to me, and I think to many others, makes 1440p "available to the mainstream" PC market today, while 4k is not.