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VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...

M

Margalis

Banned
One thing I would say to people who say "these specs are just like a PC of today" is that today you still have to write your engine with DX9 and 360/PS3 performance in mind. You can make it support DX10 or 11, but you can't make the architecture fundamentally DX11-based.

For example there are techniques that use compute shaders to do forward rendering in a way that supports a lot of lights by figuring out which lights cover which pixels, similar to the way a deferred renderer does, without the problems typically associated with deferred rendering. There are techniques that create a coarse 3d voxel representation of a scene and use that for indirect lighting, again using compute shaders and more flexible ways of reading and writing data that are not available in DX9.

Today you can't write a game that relies on those techniques. You can use them to some degree around the edges, but unless you are willing to put in a ton of work to create a completely separate rendering pipeline, solve two sets of problems, create assets with different properties, etc, you are still have the anchor of current console tech around your neck.

When the new systems hit everyone can make their games support DX11 as a baseline. They can fundamentally architect their engines to use these features as core features rather than as peripheral adornments. Right now developers can write engines like that but being PC-only lack the business case to do so.
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
Orbis: Xbox 360
Durango: PS3
Wii U: Gamecube

Margalis said:
When the new systems hit everyone can make their games support DX11 as a baseline. They can fundamentally architect their engines to use these features as core features rather than as peripheral adornments. Right now developers can write engines like that but being PC-only lack the business case to do so.
Click to expand...

I thought that Orbis would most probably go OpenGL?
 
A

aegies

Member
The Chef said:
I have just been lurking in all these threads because I really don't have a good enough grasp on anything being revealed to throw any opinions in but you really really seemed to be pushing that Durango was something more 'exciting' and 'powerful' than Orbis. Was that due to a misunderstanding on your part or do you still feel that way but your not talking necessarily about power vs power but features vs features?
Click to expand...

I think I've been pretty non-committal on Orbis. I said that the survey last year about developers having more confidence in Durango was born out anecdotally by conversations with developers and publishers.

Y2Kev said:
Orbis - NYT
Durango - WSJ
Wii U - Polygon
Click to expand...

To be fair we will invariably get any ports from the other two worth having : P
 
E

EightBitNate

Member
specialguy said:
Orbis=Mila Kunis
Durango=Kate Beckinsale
Wii U=Beyonce

I actually have no idea what this is supposed to mean. I just think using girls in our comparisons would be way more fun and confusing.
Click to expand...

You're supposed to list them in terms of power to x (in this case beauty). So...

Orbis=Mila Kunis
Durango=Kate Beckinsale
Wii U=Rhianna
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
enzo_gt said:
What I'm getting from this thread is that though the spec sheet is pointing towards the Orbis having the edge, the bottom-line output is similar enough due to Durango's efficienc that it likely won't have any significant effect on what the consumers get.
Click to expand...

Translation there will be Uncharted's and Halo's and the endless debates about which is more impressive will continue.

aegies said:
I think I've been pretty non-committal on Orbis. I said that the survey last year about developers having more confidence in Durango was born out anecdotally by conversations with developers and publishers.
Click to expand...

Yeah it just seemed to me in your posts that you didn't have as much information leaking to you about Orbis and that could be either interpreted as a good job on Sonys part to lock it down or a bad sign that there wasn't anything exciting to talk about.
 
K

kpjolee

Member
Based on leaked specs so far. MS is clearly determined to not lose money on the hardware this time. Sony is going similar direction but also seems to be determined to outdo MS at least in terms of hardware specs.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Chittagong said:
Not so sure, I'm running a 2.5TF gaming PC and sure games look nice and full 1080P on it, but nowhere near the "CGI look" some here aspire the leap to be. It's hard to see how a 1.3TF box could change that, written to the metal (lol) or not. With these specs and powerful PCs I predict tears in E3.
Click to expand...

because most of the time you're running game targetting console specs, and the extra oomph on your PC is used to run at higher res/textures/framerate with some nice effects.

Development targetting this higher spec from the start will (hopefully) bring a big jump in what we see.

And then you play that on your monster PC with higher res/framerate/textures (you might need to upgrade though..)

win-win
 
B

beast786

Member
Orbis
Bruce-Lee.jpg


Durango
jackie_chan_on_the_red_carpet-1809.jpg


WiiU
Chuck-Norris.jpg
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
I am new to these forums and do not really understand all this tech talk. Reading from some of the comments above it seems to that the general consensus is that Orbis is more powerful than Durango. Is my assumption right? ( I know that these are just rumours though).
 
D

Durante

Member
Pyscho_Mantis said:
I am new to these forums and do not really understand all this tech talk. Reading from some of the comments above it seems to that the general consensus is that Orbis is more powerful than Durango. Is my assumption right? ( I know that these are just rumours though).
Click to expand...
If you take the rumors as fact, it's pretty clear that Orbis is more powerful. Not by a huge margin, but by a non-negligible one.
 
M

Margalis

Banned
echothreealpha said:
I thought that Orbis would most probably go OpenGL?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I mean DX11 class of features. DirectX is a Windows thing but DirectX and OpenGL do the same things. It's just different API layers to the same hardware functionality.

It's easier to talk about Direct X because it has simple version numbers whereas OpenGL has all sorts of ARB_Crap.
 
D

Durante

Member
DevilWillcry said:
So it seems we are looking at a PS360 situation again next gen but this time the gap is even smaller?
Click to expand...
PS3 had a more complicated architecture, both in terms of memory layout as well as in terms of CPU.

This time around, CPU and GPU complexity should be on par, while the memory layout is simpler on Orbis.
 
G

ghst

thanks for the laugh
Durante said:
The only really new point in this is the ESram bandwidth, which seems really low to me. Can anyone familiar with ESram comment on that?

Basically, it looks like compared to PS4 you get the increased complexity of programming for 2 separate memory pools, without the expected advantage of a higher combined memory bandwidth.
Click to expand...

this is what makes all these "but my special parts" comments dubious. it will always be fundamentally limited by bandwidth.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Durante said:
The only really new point in this is the ESram bandwidth, which seems really low to me. Can anyone familiar with ESram comment on that?

Basically, it looks like compared to PS4 you get the increased complexity of programming for 2 separate memory pools, without the expected advantage of a higher combined memory bandwidth.
Click to expand...

See:

http://www.beyond3d.com/images/articles/xenos/bandwidths.gif

See the 32GB/s between GPU parent and daughter die?

I have to assume that's the 102GB/s refers to this bus in Durango. Not the internal daughter die bandwidth (256GB/s on 360).
 
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