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[Starwolf_UK]

This one is down to the game mechanics rather than level design but Star Wars Rebel Strike trials of a Jedi. I always knew what was missing in Rogue leader...2d platforming! (thats how my mind is remembering it, also some rocks moving) The controls totally don't work well here. To top it off it ends with a button mashing sequence that makes the MGS torture scene seem fair.

Oh yeah, that's right, Phantasy Star 2's dungeons. All of them.

Didn't the game come with printed maps...which had a few mistakes in them. But coming off Phantasy Star 1 I suppose you would expect it. I like how on Retronauts one of the presenters getting stuck in Phantasy Star 1 rang SEGA and was like "I'm lost in sky castle", SEGA said to them "Okay, put the game down. We'll send you some maps".

Also, there are a few levels in Super Paper Mario that I hated. Namely the space level and one near the end. They were long, confusing, and boring.

Wasn't there a section in one level where you are platforming up some place only to be sent to the bottom to do it again.

The Proton john let's play shows you how bad those get late game. We're talking like 20 minutes near the end of the game.

 

[Duster]

It feels blasphemous to mention a Mario level that contains Kuribo's Shoe but I have to mention this one because if you lose your power-up you can't finish the level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBn4oAeZ3GI

I'm sure it isn't the only level in the history of videogames that commits this sin but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I can't even think of a single well designed Sonic level.

My theory is that the reason they designed Sonic to run fast is so that the terrible level designs would be less apparent.

Lava Reef Zone > Your Soul

 

[Christopher]

Any Earthworm Jim level HORRIBLE design.

 

[Neff]

Mario 64 - Jolly Roger Bay

A level designed around cumbersome swimming mechanics is a poorly designed one.

Except they weren't cumbersome and it's probably one of the best-designed stages in one of the best-designed games of all time.

 

[Baron Von Beans]

The conveyor-belt level in Metal Gear: Ghost Babel when you have to change box-types to access specific routes. The worst part in what was otherwise a great Metal Gear.

I had completely forgotten all about this section of the game until you brought it up...thanks!!! Aside from that section, I agree, a truly great portable MG game.

Pretty much every level in this game, especially Storm's horrific underwater section. Little did my 7-year-old mind know what I was in for when my parents picked this up for my brother and I. I'm pretty positive that this game is impossible to complete without the use of an emulator.

You and me both. I had played that game so much I had Spidey's first level down to a science. After that.....no. Gambit running away from a spiked wheel? Wolverine running away from good ol' Juggernaut? And the afore mentioned Storm levels....I never came close to beating that game.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

X-Men Destiny. The entire game.

 

[pablito]

babel tower, xenogears.

when i replay it, it's not that bad. but the first time was a nightmare.

 

[Andrew.]

re4 hedgemaze (if you wanna consider it a level)

worst, as in it almost made me shit myself several times.

 

[SkyOdin]

Didn't the game come with printed maps...which had a few mistakes in them. But coming off Phantasy Star 1 I suppose you would expect it. I like how on Retronauts one of the presenters getting stuck in Phantasy Star 1 rang SEGA and was like "I'm lost in sky castle", SEGA said to them "Okay, put the game down. We'll send you some maps".

My brother and I first played the game on the GBA collection. That version didn't come with any convenient printed maps, just a foldout equipment list for all three games (which was actually useful, considering that the game isn't good at telling you what your characters can equip). While it was reasonable to map out the Phantasy Star 1 dungeons manually, the Phantasy Star 2 ones were a nightmare. We ended up looking up maps online.

 

[djtiesto]

Oh yeah, that's right, Phantasy Star 2's dungeons. All of them. Mostly because of the horrendous camera which only scrolls when you are practically touching the edge of the screen, but the labyrinthine layouts were something else. Not to mention that most dungeons had these poor tilesets that made it nearly impossible to tell apart the up and down staircases, leaving you to guess whether which floor you ended up on. Add to that the game's propensity for requiring the player to drop through pit-traps to progress.

Heck, there is an entire late-game dungeon dedicated to being the biggest "plinko game" (as some mentioned above) in RPG history. There must be a hundred routes through that dungeon, and you need to manually go through every one to find your destination.

Never before have I had to consult so many maps online to beat a game without ripping out my own hair in frustration.

To each their own, I loved the game's dungeons (especially the dungeon you mentioned)... too many RPGs have easy linear dungeons, it's nice to see some balls-hard challenge for once. I do agree with you about the screen scrolling bit though.

 

[Poohblaster]

I'd take Sonic CD over Sonic 2 any day, easily. Metropolis Zone really is just that miserable. #teamsonic1

Metropolis Zone wouldn't be so bad if it was 2 acts instead of 3 like every single level in the game before it. It's worth beating because you get Sky Chase Zone right after it.

I can't agree with Sonic CD over Sonic 2. I still think people who say Sonic CD is the best Sonic game EVAR are antiquated elitists from when Sonic CD was exclusive to the Sega CD.

 

[flatearthpandas]

that one part in Super Paper Mario where you just walk from left to right on a blank background for 10 minutes

This is what I came here to say, except I would nominate that entire world (6, I believe).

I get what they were doing with the blank screen, but just pressing right on the control pad for almost ten minutes is so far from fun it pretty much marred the rest of the game.

Well, that and the fact that just before that you walk across the same screen about fifty times fighting a single opponent every screen. There was really no justification for that and it was so far removed from fun. The combination of these two things, back to back, with the idiotic story and mediocre overall second half of the game really made me hate Super Paper Mario.


On another note, surprised at how many people are claiming Persona 1 has terrible levels? They weren't fantastic but they absolutely embarrass the bullshit random dungeons in Persona 3 and 4. Embarrass.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

The worst designed level is probably in some really bad video game. This thread seems like good games with really bad levels

And if we're going with that...can I just pick the entire third act of Half-Life 1? We're talking about an otherwise classic game that completely falls on it's face for the finale. These levels aren't just bad, they're straight up disastrous. By far, the worst levels Valve ever crafted.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Final chase mission in Assassin's Creed 3. GIANT PIECE OF SHIT

a-fucking-greed

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I didn't get that far in AC3, and I applaud anybody who did, but the Kotaku article about that final chase scene was one of my favorite pieces from last year.

 

[Kerub]

Even worse, it's the first damn level you see. (Technically not a "level" but it was un-needlessly tacked on) Rest of the game though is alright, even though it's flawed.

What game is this?

Edit - Thanks Mr_Zombie

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Any Earthworm Jim level HORRIBLE design.

You know, I enjoyed the game, but I could see this as a good answer... Somewhere out there in google-land there's a page that breaks down all the tenets of proper platformer design that game just didn't bother with.

 

[AColdDay]

Sewers in VTM Bloodlines.

Almost the entire back third of VTM Bloodlines. Never have been more thankful for console cheating in my life.

 

[Roto13]

Earthworm Jim is one of the many, many western developed platformers that ignores the fundamental rule that, in sidescrolling games, the ground is viewed from the side, not slightly above.

 

[MDSLKTR]

Serious sam 3 BFG. I absolutely loved the game until the final level happened.

Probably the biggest and the most bland level in the whole game. It's a giant long corridor where the same waves of ennemies spawn every 150m.
The worst part is that there's no sense of progression happening whatsoever, you move a bit forward, then immediately go backwards while shooting at the waves. Then you must backtrack again to refill your rockets and health before the next safe haven where you can restock again. The final boss wasn't even worth the grind. Uninstalled right after.
The rest of the game is amazing but that last level is so bad it seemed outsourced or something.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Earthworm Jim is one of the many, many western developed platformers that ignores the fundamental rule that, in sidescrolling games, the ground is viewed from the side, not slightly above.

Also, when I'm running, my character shouldn't be in the right side of the screen, gives the player less time to react to enemies that appear on screen. Aladdin does this shit, too

EWJ has one of the worst sections I've ever played through. You know the one I'm talking about. The one that everybody hates.

I still love the first two games though, warts and all

 

[VeryGooster]

People love that game, but Sonic CD really does have bad level design. A bunch of spots where you end up running around in a loop, looking for a way out. That's not good at all.

This was my Sonic CD experience playing it for the first time on XBL and I gave up. :lol

TMNT (NES) and Spider-Man & X-Men: Arcade's Revenge are the prime examples to me of consistently shitty level design, especially Wolverine vs Juggernaut.

I also wanted to chuck my controller playing the Yoyo race in Jet Set Radio...

 

[Mr_Zombie]

What game is this?

NES version of Metal Gear. IIRC, on the fourth screen from the beginning, if you go left or right, you will constantly be entering the same screen with respawned enemies. The MSX version (the official one, NES version was a "port" with a lot of things changed or dumbed down) has a completely different beginning.

Probably something from Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero. It's been so long though that I no longer remember specific levels, only pain and anguish.

I think the wind level (with Fujin) deserves the title. The game had awful controls for a platforming game (very slow jump) and the level was full of platforming, especially those fucking platforms that went back and forth in 3D. Whoever thought that that was a good idea in a 2D "platformer" with shitty controls was a sadist.

On the other hand, the whole game was simply bad.

I remember that when I played the game for the first time I was playing it on easy; when Sub-Zero was entering the portal to the Otherworld (after the water or the fire level, I don't remember) the game ended with a message that if I want to see the rest of the game I should play it on higher difficulty level. And I did it ;_; It wasn't worth it.

 

[H_Prestige]

Lost Shitalith

 

[8bit]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

I don't really know how mobster jack-in-the-boxes, toy soldiers, and clowns with water pistols are supposed to neutralize Wolverine's powers but okay. Personally, I just chalk it up to Arcade being fucking insane.

The storm part was based on a xmen comic where arcade puts storm in water. I question the wisdom of putting it in a video game because it made for a cool comic though

 

[Finalow]

there are a lot. If I have to pick one I'd go for babel tower - Xenogears.

 

[Gunstar Ikari]

Any Earthworm Jim level HORRIBLE design.

I loved me some Earthworm Jim as a kid, but I replayed 1 and 2 for the first time since the 90s not too long ago and both games really do have some horrible, horrible segments. Actually, The Flyin' King might be the worst stage I've ever played, even worse than the stuff that I mentioned before.

Makes me sad to see so many people ragging on Sonic CD. It's the true sequel to Sonic 1 and a staggering achievement in design. Complex and rewarding. Different, yes, but fascinating and intricate.

Sonic CD's level design is just completely at odds with what I feel that the Genesis Sonic engine is good at. I also think that Sonic 1 has some major problems. Really, the only "great" 2D Sonic games IMO are 2 and 3&K; the former is the best put-together (even with Metropolis Zone) and the latter is the most fun.

 

[djtiesto]

that one part in Super Paper Mario where you just walk from left to right on a blank background for 10 minutes

When I first played the game I always thought it was supposed to be some meta, postmodern, ironic critique of video games... and a lot of elements of it were "deliberately" bad (i.e. the hamster wheel part, the whole level 6).

 

[lingiii]

Meat Circus -Psychonauts

Actually great visual design, atrocious interactive/navigational design.

 

[Kanyon]

Operation Metro

HAHAHAHAHA... Looks like I'm not alone! I usually try and play on No Explosive servers if I'm going to jump into a big ticket Metro conquest game which does give one team a glimmer of hope to push through and win the game from a base rape.

They're the most satisfying wins on that map, when you're under the pump and getting flogged on the map and you manage to push through, dominate and eventually win.

 

[zruben]

When I first played the game I always thought it was supposed to be some meta, postmodern, ironic critique of video games... and a lot of elements of it were "deliberately" bad (i.e. the hamster wheel part, the whole level 6).

I just love that people didn't "get that".

and I don't mean that they didn't "get that" as in "they didn't get that it was a critique"... I mean that most of the people I have seen on the internet didn't realize that the hamster wheel was to encourage the player to look for a different solution. (and it's awesome when you find it).

 

[NotLiquid]

Sonic CD's level design is just completely at odds with what I feel that the Genesis Sonic engine is good at. I also think that Sonic 1 has some major problems. Really, the only "great" 2D Sonic games IMO are 2 and 3&K; the former is the best put-together (even with Metropolis Zone) and the latter is the most fun.

The funny thing is that Sonic CD's physics are actually pretty different in comparison to the Genesis games. This was something the fanbase considered a bit of a big deal with the recent Taxman remake since it has options for Genesis physics in it. Most of my problems with the game are gone because of the change, if only because I can get into the "mindset" of Sonic CD since the entire game being designed around the aspect of exploration. It's kind of a clusterfuck at first but I've had quite a bit of fun finding secrets.

With Sonic 2 I get the feeling that they wanted to develop a much faster paced Sonic game but used cheap difficulty obstacles such as the Grounder badniks that pop out of the walls in Aquatic Ruin in order to create the illusion that it's hard. There are some things you just can't expect in that game, and a lot of that persisted into the modern 3D games.

 

[luckyboyceo]

Lost Shitalith

Yeah, for as much as I love this game I was NOT a fan of that level at all.

 

[Daingurse]

Taturus from Persona 3...had a horrible layout and was always a drag to get through. Persona 4 thankfully fixed that.

I agree with you. Persona 3 is amazing, but Tartarus is just awful. Persona 4 makes it look even worse, no variety aside from a different coat of paint from block to block.

 

[Septimus Prime]

The PS3 exclusive extra level in Limbo is nonsense. It's just pitch black; all you see is your dude's eyes. And then you die. From something. Who knows? But it keeps happening because you can't see anything.

 

[Lijik]

Earthworm Jim is one of the many, many western developed platformers that ignores the fundamental rule that, in sidescrolling games, the ground is viewed from the side, not slightly above.

This was never the problem with Earthworm Jim though. I mean I guess its a problem if you lack basic visual comprehension but theres far worse stuff in that game when it comes to its visual language.
The hell level for instance changes the rules of what floors you can jump through and what the green circling gems do seemingly at random. It also features a background and foreground that blend together making the platforming indistinct not because of the perspective the ground is drawn at but because everything is fucking orange.
In New Junk City there are tires you can jump on and some that you can't. There is literally no visual difference between the two and the tires always appear to be "behind" the playable plane. The complete inconsistency of rules and what the playable plane is what leads to the "I thought I could jump there but I couldnt" issue of EWJ, not the perspective.
People try to act like Rayman Origins has the same issues as Earthworm Jim because they share a similar perspective for the ground but I disagree because that game has a consistent set of rules, a stronger visual language, and the plane that you're playing on is always consistent.

 

[Daingurse]

Most Sonic platformers have terrible level design, but people are more forgiving of the Genesis games due to nostalgia. The first Sonic game is still my favorite because it actually felt like a platformer.

Heh, I like the Sonic games because they don't feel like traditional platformers. Sonic 1 is easily my least favorite on the Genesis. So I find that kinda funny.

 

[Riposte]

You sure love to tell people why their opinions are wrong, don't you?

There is nothing wrong with telling people they are wrong. And I'm only really doing it with the first post.

 

[Xander51]

Dat unintentional pun.

But I'm gonna go Mega Man X 6 Blaze Heatnix stage.

Ugh just watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl6QM4hUft8&list=PL9A7DD8572486C671&index=8

That's...that's the most amazing/absurd/horrible level I've ever seen in a video game. Wow.

 

[Arc Christelle]

Most Sonic platformers have terrible level design, but people are more forgiving of the Genesis games due to nostalgia. The first Sonic game is still my favorite because it actually felt like a platformer.

Woah let's not get ahead of ourselves. They do have great left design in a matter what works for a Sonic game. The first one is know where in hell my favorite, but it did set the grounds for a good Sonic.

What? No. This is a lie.

There's a few stinkers but Genesis Sonic level design is consistently good.

Sonic CD is terrible.

The truth.

I'd take Sonic CD over Sonic 2 any day, easily. Metropolis Zone really is just that miserable.

Might take it over S3K too, depending on whether I'm in the mood for a short game or a long game. 3K is epic, but it has a bit too much padding.

#teamsonic1

I think you should play Sonic 2, then revisit those games then think sweet merciful SEGA that S3&K happened.

Sonic CD's levels are all godawful and look like the result of corrupt graphics.

This.

I can't even think of a single well designed Sonic level.

My theory is that the reason they designed Sonic to run fast is so that the terrible level designs would be less apparent.

The levels are designed to compliment Sonic's speed while offering players different paths to explore. It's about going forward, and not looking around. Which makes the level design in their earlier and most recent games great. It's twitchy like that.

Final level of Lost Planet. The mech moves and shoots a certain way the entire game, and then for the last level they take everything you learned and throw that in the garbage, and the mech can fly and also instead of shooting you have a sword.

The funny thing about this, even though I understand the complaints, I actually adapted pretty quick to the VS's controls and found no problem with it.



-------
Also I'd like to contribute this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65-BMzu5wlw

Speed Runners are miracle makers.

 

[Hystzen]

FF12 easy

The Great Crystal

"ok lets check map where I'm going"

"You got be fucking kidding me SE"

 

[Roto13]

I wandered around the Great Crystal and was out of there in like three minutes.

But I'm sure I missed something in there.

 

[Hystzen]

I wandered around the Great Crystal and was out of there in like three minutes.

But I'm sure I missed something in there.

Ultima Esper

 

[Arc Christelle]

Does the clocktower areas in Castlevania games count? Those Medusa Heads are a motherfucker.

 

[Roto13]

Ultima Esper

Yeah.

Definitely missed that.

 

[corrosivefrost]

I never knew we should be expected to play through 15+ hours of linear shit before getting to the good part

You mean Final Fantasy X didn't prepare you for that?

I'm sure there are games that irritated me during the last level, but I'm drawing a blank.

 

[Hystzen]

Yeah.

Definitely missed that.

It not worth it really the other Esper in the mines is strongest in game and easy to get just need get 10 espers to unlock its lair then beat it

The Great Crystal also has no special loot or anything unique it a complete waste of time and effort