jim-jam bongs
Member
But he has subjectively determined that objectivity is worthless, because the Wii was a poo-poo head.
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Why do people keep saying that "Wii won last gen?"
- Thread starter Comandr
- Start date
But he has subjectively determined that objectivity is worthless, because the Wii was a poo-poo head.
captmcblack
Member
Then what is?
clem84
Gold Member
The goal of these manufacturers is to make money. You can measure success in many different ways but the real underline goal is always to be as profitable as possible. Nintendo clearly made more money with the Wii and DS during the last generation. If anyone is to be declared a winner, I think it should be Nintendo.
wiping the floor = selling 1-2 more games per console?
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I think your slightly missing my point, I'm not talking about 360 exclusives, Im talking about the combined 3 party games and exclusives on either platform Vs the 1st and 3rd party games on Wii
Thats fair enough, I'm genuinely glad you enjoyed it, I wish I could have. My original point is that in general gamers are not into these genre's anymore and the Wii's failure to offer anything more is why I consider it a disappointment.
It's a pretty significant amount, actually, and it's 2+. It's enough of an aberration that it should be analyzed. The 360 did something particularly right in selling software to its consumers, and clearly it's more complicated than "360 gamers are hardcore while the Wii isn't!" because the PS3 doesn't fit the same curve. Finding out what the 360 did right regarding attach rate would probably be worth someone's time.
SirUltimos
Member
It's really impossible to say what "gamers in general" are into.
Objectively speaking a poo-poo head would actually be a terrifically lucrative item. Can you imagine the media exposure, the journalists lining up for interviews, the sponsors, the film and book rights surrounding a living, breathing poo-poo head?
I propose this thread change topic to being about the untapped potential of capitalizing on a poo-poo head.
Supposedly diapers would negate some of the vast accumulating wealth, of course.
You just prove my point and what I was saying. It's all subjective. A financially successful Product like the Wii is a winner but so is the Wii U but for different reasons and for different people. It's what you feel to be true. That's my point.
"it" isn't subjective. We can argue semantics all day, and personal preference is COMPLETELY meaningless if it's just to diffuse the discussion of what is "better" or a "winner"; but at the heart of the matter is more people shelled out cash to buy a Wii than anything else. That is what the consoles sought to do and it's what the Wii did. That's why people say the Wii won. Question answered. Mystery solved. I'm quite certain everyone here knows that answer, it just burns some people, and this topic is a great place to look down on Wii fans who are feeding the trolls. lololololololololol Nintendo fans.
Muppet of a Man
Member
+2 retail games plus an undefined number of downloadable games. 360 has made more than either Nintendo or Sony in the online services arena by a wide margin. It's likely the attach rate is actually (including downloadable game) +5 (or more) higher than the next closest competitor, the Wii. That number doesn't include Live Gold subscriptions or the ridiculous amount of DLC and microtransactions collected on.
RobFox64tm
Member
Units sold and money made, period.
Any other measure used to define success is purely subjective; based only on feelings and not hard numbers. Like it or not, the Wii was the most successful platform last generation based purely on empirical data.
Any other measure used to define success is purely subjective; based only on feelings and not hard numbers. Like it or not, the Wii was the most successful platform last generation based purely on empirical data.
Probably.
Oh. Sorry I read what you wrote wrong. I don't disagree with what you are saying. I guess what I think is...yes facts are facts. Like you I do feel the Wii was the biggest 'success'. It's fact right? Hardware and software sales show that. The sales figures and money made show that it was a bigger success than the other two.
But I think I also respect someone for saying it's not their 'winner'. I guess I view success and winner as something different. Success is akin the the person who passes the line first in a race. Winner is like the person who doesn't win but stops to help the other athlete who fell over to cross the line or some crap lol.
A bit over the top lol but I guess when I hear winner I think of it more sentimental. Its a winner in my heart or whatever. The Wii was both for me btw. I loved that system more than the other two so it's my winner
scytheavatar
Member
The Wii won, but ultimately it was a Pyrrhic victory. Because the Wii was a fad and its success led Nintendo to be blind to changing times and the emerging threats from mobiles. It also led Nintendo to believe they could replicate its success on the Wii U with that gimmicky touch screen nonsense, which it certainly didn't.
I do want to point out that I don't think the vitriol the Wii generates is really directed at Nintendo specifically.
It's directed at the philosophy the Wii espoused, and the types of games it put forward. Nintendo just happened to be the (temporary) vessel by which these games were delivered to the public. Today, we see similar vitriol poured out towards iOS gaming or Facebook gaming or even the mandatory Kinect in Xbox One.
We often refer to these now as "casual" or "social" games, and the dislike for that approach to gaming is quite strong on NeoGAF regardless of who happens to manufacture the hardware.
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
The Wii won last gen. There's no making up new rules because other consoles didn't outsell it.
Now it's a different story if you want to say that the PS3 and 360 had way better momentum at the end of the lifecycle... but yes. Wii won overall.
It's ok. Looks like Sony will have the number 1 spot back again this gen.
Now it's a different story if you want to say that the PS3 and 360 had way better momentum at the end of the lifecycle... but yes. Wii won overall.
It's ok. Looks like Sony will have the number 1 spot back again this gen.
And yet they couldn't manage to turn much of a profit. Very interesting.
oh for sure. I guess I just don't see that as "wiping the floor" worthy
what the Wii did from launch through 2010 is "wiping the floor" worthy imo but selling a game or two more per console sold is not
WrenchNinja
Member
I want people to remember and see what the top reviewed game of the last generation was.
If you're appealing to the GAF audience, you should probably list the GAF GotYs from 2005-2013
phosphor112
Banned
That's because of hardware, which is a completely different (irrelevant) topic.
Solid Samus
Banned
Talk about moving goalposts. I'm getting a headache my eyes have rolled so far back
And that's not to say that valid points haven't been made by the OP but within the context of last generation Nintendo sold the most units, made the most money, and its key novel feature, downplayed by plenty of blind folk up itt, has made its way to literally every single modern gaming capable device you own... I don't see how that's not a win regardless of how hard they fucked up moving forward
And that's not to say that valid points haven't been made by the OP but within the context of last generation Nintendo sold the most units, made the most money, and its key novel feature, downplayed by plenty of blind folk up itt, has made its way to literally every single modern gaming capable device you own... I don't see how that's not a win regardless of how hard they fucked up moving forward
GRIZZMEISTER
Banned
The Wii won on so many levels. Sure, it was the sales leader but it also redefined video gaming with its novel Motion Controls.
The Wii is amazing and I play it just about as much as I do my Xbox 360. Thanks to Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resorts my family can finally enjoy video gaming as much as I do. Since my Wii is backwards compatible and connected to an HDTV with component cables, I can get the most out of my GameCube software by playing in progressive scan. Lastly, the Virtual Console service means that old classics like Super Smash Bros. and F-Zero X have found new life on my LCD TV.
The Wii is amazing and I play it just about as much as I do my Xbox 360. Thanks to Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resorts my family can finally enjoy video gaming as much as I do. Since my Wii is backwards compatible and connected to an HDTV with component cables, I can get the most out of my GameCube software by playing in progressive scan. Lastly, the Virtual Console service means that old classics like Super Smash Bros. and F-Zero X have found new life on my LCD TV.
This thread is about the winner of last gen. They failed to turn a profit. I wouldn't call it irrelevant.
phosphor112
Banned
Wait... so it is profit? Or is it sales? Those are two different things.
Xbox One has sold objectively less, but we are told that they make a profit on each one.
Sony says they make a profit after 1 game or PS+ purchase but that has objectively sold over a million more PS4s than X1's.
So which one is it?
Software attach rates are apparently a defining metric of whether or not a console "won" but hardware sales and profit don't figure into the matter at all.
phosphor112
Banned
Software attach rates are apparently a defining metric of whether or not a console "won" but hardware sales and profit don't figure into the matter at all.
I never said such thing. Others might have, but I have not. I was only addressing the inconsistency in the other post above.
My posts don't exist in a vacuum. I was responding to somebody who is arguing that the only possible metric MS was ahead in is an important one to consider.
The Wii without a doubt was ahead in both sales and profit, so I'm not sure what we're talking about.
I'd be curious what the impact of COD / Madden / FIFA yearly installments would be on the attach rates. There were 9 titles each for COD and Madden for the 360, and I'm pretty sure each sold better on the 360 than the PS3 (in the US, anyway). I certainly don't know if that would be enough to make the 2+ difference in attach rate, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was at least some impact due to one console being the preferred choice for the popular yearly game series.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Anybody saying any console "won" a generation is missing the point entirely.
But both were vastly inferior to Super Mario 64.
you might be in the wrong thread then
or you, dare I say it, missed the point of the thread entirely
FreedomFighter
Member
In 10 years, we'll have a thread entitled: "Why do people still say the 3DS won last gen?". Then they'll rationalize that position by focusing entirely on whatever arbitrary and/or subjective metric to say the Vita was actually the true winner.
I'm calling it.
(In fact, I can see this thread being made sometime this year. In that thread, YoY will be the sole determinant of success. The reasonable people will try to talk some sense into the deliberately obtuse people and we'll have another double digit thread on our hands. Go GAF.)
Oh. Sorry I read what you wrote wrong. I don't disagree with what you are saying. I guess what I think is...yes facts are facts. Like you I do feel the Wii was the biggest 'success'. It's fact right? Hardware and software sales show that. The sales figures and money made show that it was a bigger success than the other two.
But I think I also respect someone for saying it's not their 'winner'. I guess I view success and winner as something different. Success is akin the the person who passes the line first in a race. Winner is like the person who doesn't win but stops to help the other athlete who fell over to cross the line or some crap lol.
A bit over the top lol but I guess when I hear winner I think of it more sentimental. Its a winner in my heart or whatever. The Wii was both for me btw. I loved that system more than the other two so it's my winner
I definitely think subjective opinion has its place, I just don't necessarily think that place is this thread.
If this thread were called "do you like the Wii?" I think you'd see a lot more room for personal preference and a lot less room for "well the Wii sold the most hardware."
Uh well, when the only two objective examples (hardware and software) show that the Wii beat out the other two competitors, I can't see why you wouldn't say that it won.
If you want to get into subjective superlatives, sure, but hard data can't be argued.
Objective winner != Your favorite
It happens. Or, in this case, happened.
If you want to get into subjective superlatives, sure, but hard data can't be argued.
Objective winner != Your favorite
It happens. Or, in this case, happened.
FreedomFighter
Member
It had a normal console lifecycle though. It just dropped off long before the PS360 did, which was completely Nintendo's fault.
I'm really glad you feel that way and I agree. I'd like to say something more profound but I can't really since you've hit the nail on the head and I don't think there's much more I can say really. Thanks for your comments I appreciate them as always and apologies if I said anything dumb in advance.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Hah, ok. One of them (the 2nd) is the best mario game of all time.
There I said it.
Although I'll add an imo at the end
No one demanded 3rd parties stop making games.... They just did
OT: Wii won in every damn aspect...move them goalposts around all you want point still stands.
Yeah, I'm hip. I agree it has next to nothing to do with the manufacturer and everything to do with a product flying right in the face of established values. I'm just surprised that the anger keeps going and going.
I mean it ultimately worked out pretty well for the audience that was most offended by the Wii. 3rd parties largely shunned it, the enthusiast crowd shunned it, enthusiast media, etc etc. It wasn't stealing games, or forcing games of it's theme on other consoles (in significant numbers) and now even the successor has proven to be a catastrophe sales wise, so it's not like there was some huge follow up that changed the industry forever to the detriment of the enthusiast crowd. There's only these sales, which have already proven to be meaningless to gamers (as far as future impact) when you get right down to it.
I suppose it's fairly typical behavior.
Portugeezer
Gold Member
Wii won, but it wasn't the best console.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Honestly, if we're talking software sold, you have to keep in mind that near 50% of that software was Nintendo games alone. Sure, you can take out a few MKWii sales and most of the WiiSports sales, but at the end of the day, it was more money for Nintendo.
Again, subjective. The Wii was criminally underrated for its good games, because the mob spewing vitriol to it couldn't take a moment to discover its good games, looking solely at its shovelware. If we're using a shovelware metric, then nearly every single console ever made is trash.
Someone needs to make a gif of the moving goalpost llevel in Mario 3DWorld
Again, subjective. The Wii was criminally underrated for its good games, because the mob spewing vitriol to it couldn't take a moment to discover its good games, looking solely at its shovelware. If we're using a shovelware metric, then nearly every single console ever made is trash.
Someone needs to make a gif of the moving goalpost llevel in Mario 3DWorld