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[Saint Gregory]

Damn, sounds like Wii U is going to get a savage beat down.

I know, you think they would have learned something from the savage beat down they took this gen..

oh, wait.

 

[Jackben]

By the way, you'd think with Nintendo optimizing the Wii U's internet browser specifically for NeoGAF, Evilore would appreciate it more.

Generally when someone lights a turd on fire and leaves it on your doorstep it's considered unpleasant at best and an insult at worst.

 

[Durante]

The next Xbox and PlayStation are not "GPU-centric." There are pretty significant things happening with their processor architectures. And at least for Durango, it's not using off the shelf kit, contrary to what many GAF posters have insisted. Even more troublesome for the Wii U, they have much more dedicated GPGPU capabilities which aren't happening on the dedicated GPUs they're packing.

Excite!
Sounds like we do have APUs with a significant number of CPU cores and GPU processing clusters dedicated to GPGPU, in addition to dedicated GPUs. That would be the best-case scenario.

 

[EulaCapra]

So Nintendo spent a chunk of their Wii profit money on a weak CPU, brand name confusion with Wii U, and a weak start in marketing the console to the masses?

Iwata: Yes. (laughs)

 

[Pie and Beans]

Man, whole new waves of people that don't understand what Gahiggidy is. It probably doesnt help that we've had crazier real people of that persuasion on here over the last few years though...

 

[Spiegel]

Even to a close friend?

Let's see

They really like it, and they're doing some very cool stuff with it.

Woah! This is some amazing insight at what Retro is doing. It doesn't read like a typical response from a developer when asked about that kind of stuff.

"We like the hardware and we are doing cool stuff"

Amazing

 

[metalslimer]

The next Xbox and PlayStation are not "GPU-centric." There are pretty significant things happening with their processor architectures. And at least for Durango, it's not using off the shelf kit, contrary to what many GAF posters have insisted. Even more troublesome for the Wii U, they have much more dedicated GPGPU capabilities which aren't happening on the dedicated GPUs they're packing.

Sounds like the Wii U is kind of screwed here. Can't wait to see what the other two have in store though.

 

[Mastperf]

Excite!
Sounds like we do have APUs with a significant number of CPU cores and GPU processing clusters dedicated to GPGPU, in addition to dedicated GPUs. That would be the best-case scenario.

What kind of a visual jump should we expect from current consoles?

 

[cRIPticon]

I think if anything what this revelation should demonstrate is how little Nintendo fears Sony and Microsoft.

Microsoft has shown an inability to get any traction with the Xbox brand in non-english speaking countries and Sony is having some serious fiscal issues that could impact their ability to remain competitive going forward.

This entire WiiU experiment seems to be aimed directly at competing with the Apple/smart device market and not Sony and MS at all.

Partially. What this really demonstrates is how little the general public will care about the concerns in this thread. Looking at individual specs on processors is of little value unless you examine the system in its entirety. I would take better balanced system over faster cores any day of the week. This reminds me of the GHz push in the early 2000's when everyone was so focused on the number on the processor without also considering the order of magnitude slower bus speeds that they sat on.

It is also of little use to compare the embedded components to OTS parts for PCs and the embedded packages have been modified for the console. We saw this with the PS2 and the Emotion Engine, the PS3 and the SPUs, and the 360s core packaging.

Comparing launch game ports to the Wii U vs established consoles that have had the luxury of YEARS of code optimization in their engines is equally silly.

At any rate, all I can tell you is that me and my family have been having a BLAST with the WiiU. And isn't that what it is all about anyway?

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

If they know their close friend is going to brag about drinking beers and playing SF on a message board to help a debate?

Maybe it would be "bragging" if it was just one guy I know, sure. But my job puts me in contact with a LOT of higher-ups in the game biz, it's not like Retro are the only ones saying good things.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Woah! This is some amazing insight at what Retro is doing. It doesn't read like a typical response from a developer when asked about that kind of stuff.

"We like the hardware and we are doing cool stuff"

Amazing

Like he's going to disclose any more if he knows it.

It doesn't work that way.

 

[AzaK]

I don't disagree to any extent, but I think people were hoping the power (not in Watts) was significantly more than 6-7 year old consoles such that rushed ports would be slightly better, that the non-optimized port would be overcome by raw power. If this raw power did exist then dedicated development would produce exclusives significantly ahead of PS360 games. This would also give hope that future PC/PS4/720 games could be ported with some amount of work.

That dream may be dead now. Ports are limping along. Dedicated exclusives may match exclusives on the PS360, but what about PS4/720 games? Will they bother to try and port them? I guess that depends on the their specs and sales, but it may be a repeat of this gen with the Wii ports, or lack of them.
.

This is my concern. The more we find out the more I feel it's going to suffer the 'no third party ports' when 720/ps4 come. Such s massive gulf is going to be hard to cross.

It really is seeming like the third party friendly talk was just that - talk. Nintendo have to really work to secure support now and into future or it will end up a bit like Wii. Maybe a lot of Japanese are happy with 'a bit over this gen' but I don't know if big western ones are.

Still getting mine and if it doesn't get third parties from next gen, I'll probably sell it. Nintendo better hope lots of others don't do the same.

 

[Osiris]

Man, whole new waves of people that don't understand what Gahiggidy is. It probably doesnt help that we've had crazier real people of that persuasion on here over the last few years though...

To think he was once our delusional but lovable Nintendo fan.

Now he's lost in a crowd.

A bit like all the Astrolad clones, they have diminished the original!

 

[ASIS]

The next Xbox and PlayStation are not "GPU-centric." There are pretty significant things happening with their processor architectures. And at least for Durango, it's not using off the shelf kit, contrary to what many GAF posters have insisted. Even more troublesome for the Wii U, they have much more dedicated GPGPU capabilities which aren't happening on the dedicated GPUs they're packing.

Is this speculation or actual information?

If it's the latter. What are the chances that we might see a repeat of this generation in regards to power?

 

[Brera]

Nintendo needs to realise the rest of the world doesn't give a shit about:

1. Wii backwards compatibility....why the hell would you cripple your current system to ensure this?
2. Small form factor...it's not actually that small...it's as big as OG Xbox! Both the 360 and PS3 slims are smaller and more powerful by the looks of it.
3. Energy consumption...I mean WTF!

 

[ThatObviousUser]

The Wii U's online system right now has account names, friend requests, a digital distribution platform, YouTube, etc. Unless you like paying double the cost of your console so that you can download games onto your friend's hardware, I'd say they have a better platform than Microsoft.

What a dumb thing to say.

Having access to games you paid for should be a universal right, no amount of defending and making excuses will change that.

 

[Freezie KO]

The PS3 was worth every penny to me, and then some. It wasn't so much a games console as a home cinema powerhouse. The fucking audio capabilities made me weak at the knees.

The 360 was much more of a games console at launch, and still worth every penny. Dat HD.

Well, as I said, if you're a tech geek that cares about audio capabilities, sure, hardware will do it for you. But most people don't care about capabilities, they care about content.

The HD in your 360 refers to the content. The games you played were in HD. I doubt you'd have bought a 360 if you didn't want to play something on it.

What a dumb thing to say.

Having access to games you paid for should be a universal right, no amount of defending and making excuses will change that.

I didn't say you shouldn't be able to do that. But when I download a game, I have access to it. I can play it. And I've had hardware issues in the past, and Nintendo restored my VC games.

Given all else that Nintendo provides for free*, an account-based system isn't worth an extra $60/year for me. I think they provide the better service.

*cost of hardware.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Man, whole new waves of people that don't understand what Gahiggidy is. It probably doesnt help that we've had crazier real people of that persuasion on here over the last few years though...

So he's basically just a joker/troll?

Hard to tell sometimes

 

[Monas]

I only red the first page of this thread and while i'm not too keen on Nintendo hardware, did anyone mention that, unlike the CELL or Xenon, the WiiU's CPU is of OoOE class?
This has it's advantages even at these low clock speeds.

Anyway, with each year passing it seems that all 3 major players in the console market are trying their best to crash the business.

 

[metalslimer]

I've said it before, but Nintendo at this point just needs to buy every studio they can and start making a crap ton of deals with other people. Buy whatever remnants of THQ they can, keep making more deals with studios like Platinum, maybe buy some Sega IPs they aren't using and get to work. If Nintendo is going try and be unique and miss all of the traditional 3rd party support than they need to be able to support their platforms a hell of a lot better than they do. All that talk about Nintendo partnerships seems to have just been for stuff like Tvii and hulu.

 

[AzaK]

Nintendo needs to realise the rest of the world doesn't give a shit about:

1. Wii backwards compatibility....why the hell would you cripple your current system to ensure this?
2. Small form factor...it's not actually that small...it's as big as OG Xbox! Both the 360 and PS3 slims are smaller and more powerful by the looks of it.
3. Energy consumption...I mean WTF!

Agreed. It's bullshit. Twice the power draw doesn't phase me. Bigger unit doesn't phase me. Christ I have a receiver the size of a tank under my telly.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Like he's going to disclose any more if he knows it.

It doesn't work that way.

Ugh, this is all so silly. So, basically everything we've discovered up to this point -- including every launch title out right now -- indicates that the Wii U is roughly on par at best with current systems on the market. But sure, let's go with unsubstantiated claims from someone with contacts that the hardware is great, because that makes for riveting analysis.

On the one hand, you have a mountain of tangible evidence suggesting that the hardware certainly isn't all that and a side of fries. On the other, there's second-hand info from somebody who knows movers and shakers that it is the bees knees, and unannounced software will demonstrate that.

 

[Durante]

What kind of a visual jump should we expect from current consoles?

If that information is true? Well, stuff like 1313 for launch easily I guess. Reduced IQ Agni's Philosophy and Samaritan later on.

 

[Chinpoko_Master]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

Ouch. What's sad is that in a few years, there will likely be tablets that are cheaper and more powerful than the Wii U.

 

[PhantomR]

man, NEOGAF really likes to live inside a bubble.

Fixed.

 

[elostyle]

Both the PS3 and X360 are not really a great basis to compare clock speeds to a more standard CPU with. They both seem somewhat Pentium 4-ish.

 

[JaseMath]

Be honest, people: If you owned either the PS3 or 360, did you ever consider buying the same 3rd party game on the Wii? No...and why would anyone? The WiiU will not buck that trend.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

"We like the hardware and we are doing cool stuff"

Amazing

Well it's not like I can go into detail with confidential info on a message board...

 

[dollartaco]

Nintendo needs to realise the rest of the world doesn't give a shit about:
2. Small form factor...it's not actually that small...it's as big as OG Xbox! Both the 360 and PS3 slims are smaller and more powerful by the looks of it.

Uh... The Wii U is about the size of a PS2 Slim.

 

[Blades64]

We're experiencing flat out shameful, incompetent design. Decade-old hardware in a primarily $350 box is not necessary or even particularly beneficial in order to secure an aggressive profit margin, and having power trade-offs with the 360/PS3 architectures ensures bad press and unhappy port-buyers from the beginning, when upgraded current gen ports were very much part of the launch strategy. Fils-Aime has to run laughably dishonest damage control on a daily basis as part of this catastrophic failure to produce a technologically viable system -- again, at such a premium price point.

No worries, though. I'm sure soccer moms worldwide, with their iPads and Nexus 7s sitting on the coffee table, will be enthralled by the unique selling point of a living room tethered, two hour battery life, PDA-era resistive touch screen tablet controller.

Wow. EviLore dropping dem bombs.

Whatevs though. I'm sure that the vast majority which are little kids who don't give a crap about specs will love their Wii Us, and I'm also sure that the minority that is many a gaffers will continue not like it.

Nintendo is a backwards thinking hardware company. No going around that. Just saying that when my 8 year old little bro opens up his gift for Christmas...he'll love it.

 

[Father_Brain]

Maybe a lot of Japanese are happy with 'a bit over this gen' but I don't know if big western ones are.

There's no need for uncertainty - while the situation almost certainly won't be quite as bad as on Wii (it would be all but impossible for it to be worse), it's safe to conclude that Western third-party support will be extremely lacking until and unless the market somehow forces a change of plans. Just look at all the Q1 multiplatform titles that are only getting PS3/360 versions; that's all the proof you need.

 

[Horse Armour]

Well it's not like I can go into detail with confidential info on a message board...

Why not? I'm sure your uncle won't mind.

 

[Tallshortman]

By the way, you'd think with Nintendo optimizing the Wii U's internet browser specifically for NeoGAF, Evilore would appreciate it more.


NeoGaf runs best on Wii U. I stopped using my iPad to view it since getting a Nintendo Wii U.

lol this needs to be the new OP.

Wii U is your one stop shop for everything technology! Throw out your desktops, throw out your laptops, throw out your consoles. Why need a tablet when you can carry your wii u gamepad a whole 20 feet from your console. Not near an electrical outlet but you need to go? Just bring along your handy Nintendo approved power generator for on the go Nintendo Land!

 

[cRIPticon]

Nintendo needs to realise the rest of the world doesn't give a shit about:

1. Wii backwards compatibility....why the hell would you cripple your current system to ensure this?

BC is always a desired feature. See Apple iEcosystem for this. It is now an expectation by most and is the first question I get about the system by parents looking to buy it for the family.

2. Small form factor...it's not actually that small...it's as big as OG Xbox! Both the 360 and PS3 slims are smaller and more powerful by the looks of it.

Wha...? So, you don't own a WiiU yet. Got it.

3. Energy consumption...I mean WTF!

More energy = more heat. More heat in confined spaces = reduction in lifespan of system. WTF indeed!

 

[metalslimer]

Be honest, people: If you owned either the PS3 or 360, did you ever consider buying the same 3rd party game on the Wii? No...and why would anyone? The WiiU will not buck that trend.

Yes, if there weren't so many technical problems. Off screen play and on the fly inventory are big draws for me. For stuff like maps being open at all the time is something I loved on the DS.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Ugh, this is all so silly. So, basically everything we've discovered up to this point -- including every launch title out right now -- indicates that the Wii U is roughly on par at best with current systems on the market. But sure, let's go with unsubstantiated claims from someone with contacts that the hardware is great, because that makes for riveting analysis.

On the one hand, you have a mountain of tangible evidence suggesting that the hardware certainly isn't all that and a side of fries. On the other, there's second-hand info from somebody who knows movers and shakers that it is the bees knees, and unannounced software will demonstrate that.

And you have a lot of comments from developers saying the system is very powerful and great.

Why'd you leave out that part???

(rhetorical question)

 

[Cosmozone]

@Brera Yeah, I also really wonder about that power consumption thing (big in Japan?)... Maybe we're seeing the 3DS successor from the future. :-D
Two screens, one of which is a touch screen...
Low power consumption...
j/k

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Both the PS3 and X360 are not really a great basis to compare clock speeds to a more standard CPU with. They both seem somewhat Pentium 4-ish.

I've seen the P4 getting a lot of negative comments, not only in this thread but elsewhere on GAF, but what was the problem with the P4 in relation to P3? Just curious.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I didn't say you shouldn't be able to do that. But when I download a game, I have access to it. I can play it. And I've had hardware issues in the past, and Nintendo restored my VC games.

Given all else that Nintendo provides for free*, an account-based system isn't worth an extra $60/year for me. I think they provide the better service.

*cost of hardware.

This isn't something that needs a fee. That's why I said universal right -- it should always be included, no matter if the service is free or paid. PSN includes the same feature.

Saying "BUT IT'S FREE!!!!" doesn't exclude the fact that the situation is absolute lunacy and completely anti-consumer. PSN, Steam, and any modern app store all include this absolutely crucial, basic feature at no extra cost. Nintendo is deliberately not supporting it in order to be as contrary as possible.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Why not? I'm sure your uncle won't mind.

You're confusing my post with someone else, genius. Read it again.

 

[PhantomR]

I've said it before, but Nintendo at this point just needs to buy every studio they can and start making a crap ton of deals with other people. Buy whatever remnants of THQ they can, keep making more deals with studios like Platinum, maybe buy some Sega IPs they aren't using and get to work. If Nintendo is going try and be unique and miss all of the traditional 3rd party support than they need to be able to support their platforms a hell of a lot better than they do

I agree with this, but don't forget that Nintendo still has solid third party support. Activision, Ubisoft, and WB Games are providing some pretty awesome support.


I think keeping strong relationships with these, and maybe one more major publisher

On top of investing in their internal divisions and making some key acquisitions

And being even MORE aggressive towards locking up indie game development


Is a great strategy and will allow the Wii U to have a really nice, healthy ecosystem of software.

 

[darkistheway]

No, because a smart developer is never going to say anything bad about their employeer.

Even over beers?

 

[jbueno]

Pretty interesting read, specially regarding the hacking of the console. My frothing demand for Wii U homebrew increases, if only for USB loaders since the Wii has spoiled me in that regard.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Wow the Wii U just can't catch a break.

And honestly I don't believe it deserves one. Specs like these were disappointing back in 2005.

Say goodbye to third party support when next gen comes around.

 

[Mastperf]

If that information is true? Well, stuff like 1313 for launch easily I guess. Reduced IQ Agni's Philosophy and Samaritan later on.

Wow, thanks. So actual next-gen hardware. Starting to get excited now.

 

[Father_Brain]

Ugh, this is all so silly. So, basically everything we've discovered up to this point -- including every launch title out right now -- indicates that the Wii U is roughly on par at best with current systems on the market. But sure, let's go with unsubstantiated claims from someone with contacts that the hardware is great, because that makes for riveting analysis.

On the one hand, you have a mountain of tangible evidence suggesting that the hardware certainly isn't all that and a side of fries. On the other, there's second-hand info from somebody who knows movers and shakers that it is the bees knees, and unannounced software will demonstrate that.

I think you're exaggerating the extent of the disagreement there. It's not really shocking that a dev like Retro, which is focused solely on Wii U and can design a game from the ground up for the strengths and weaknesses of the hardware, would have a more positive view of the platform than a developer who would have to shoehorn an engine designed for very different hardware onto it.

But maybe it is just Nintendo Stockholm syndrome, who knows.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Excite!
Sounds like we do have APUs with a significant number of CPU cores and GPU processing clusters dedicated to GPGPU, in addition to dedicated GPUs. That would be the best-case scenario.

Yes, indeed! Integrated GPU sharing the same virtual address space as the CPU and communicating over L2/L3 cache and being able to act as a stream co-processor while letting the dedicated GPU do graphics tasks.

I still maintain that Nintendo always went for non standard quirky architectures that were well balanced and fun to develop for... as IMHO were the PS2 and PSOne too... Contrary to popular belief they have always used quite "complex" HW, on certain aspects (see the variety of memory pools and registers you would have to juggle on the GBA), they were not easy to program for because the HW was simple, but because the HW was balanced and made sense.

There are some things about the Wii U which make it VERY interesting to code for (as discussed in the other thread started by blu), compared to the previous generation of consoles, if I could work on an exclusive title for it... GamePad included... it could allow the best adaptation of a Jason Bourne video game, at least the way I see it (perhaps one of the most difficult experiences to nail down, make you feel like Bourne... mixing action with lots and lots of strategy and active stealth so to speak) .

 

[cRIPticon]

Ugh, this is all so silly. So, basically everything we've discovered up to this point -- including every launch title out right now -- indicates that the Wii U is roughly on par at best with current systems on the market. But sure, let's go with unsubstantiated claims from someone with contacts that the hardware is great, because that makes for riveting analysis.

On the one hand, you have a mountain of tangible evidence suggesting that the hardware certainly isn't all that and a side of fries. On the other, there's second-hand info from somebody who knows movers and shakers that it is the bees knees, and unannounced software will demonstrate that.

There is a forest behind that tree you know....

 

[AzaK]

There's no need for uncertainty - while the situation almost certainly won't be quite as bad as on Wii (it would be all but impossible for it to be worse), it's safe to conclude that Western third-party support will be extremely lacking until and unless the market somehow forces a change of plans. Just look at all the Q1 multiplatform titles that are only getting PS3/360 versions; that's all the proof you need.

I only recently saw that list and yeah it depressed me. In the end it only hurts Nintendo cause Ill buy them on 360 and the more I spend elsewhere the less I spend on Nintendos machine. You should haves worked harder Nintendo to get those titles. Shit, even port them for the company.

 

[elostyle]

I've seen the P4 getting a lot of negative comments, not only in this thread but elsewhere on GAF, but what was the problem with the P4 in relation to P3? Just curious.

Super high clock speed (3+ GHz) at the cost of having to have an extremely deep pipeline to support the frequency. However that deep pipeline gets invalidated whenever the branch prediction fails, costing a ton of cycles. So really, it's not getting a whole lot out of its cycles, which is why the lower clocked Pentium M mopped the floor with it at much lower power consumption.