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[benny_a]

Configuration? Install Windows 7, install latest graphics drivers (or let Steam do it for you). Speaking of Steam, it will also take care of your game updates for you. In the same way.

As someone that believed what he read on GAF about how hassle-free gaming on PC has become and spend 1200 EUR to build a gaming PC, I have to disagree with you.

My PS3 with PS+ trumps my gaming PC so hard it's almost laughable that people suggest Steam is a valid alternative for the majority.

 

[phosphor112]

Configuration? Install Windows 7, install latest graphics drivers (or let Steam do it for you). Speaking of Steam, it will also take care of your game updates for you. In the same way.

Is this not a discussion about benefits of PCs (maximizing graphics / frame rate/ mods) vs convenience?

So, ignore having to hunt into forums and find a fix for a shitty PC port like Dark Souls? (Durante da best). What about improving the terrible performance of GTA4? Skyrim? Mods?

Ignore all the research involved for those wanting to purchase hardware? What about looking up software or hardware options for using your integrated GPU with your discrete GPU? RAID options? Because there ARE options. Not only that, but there is the upkeep as well.

I don't see how you're conveniently ignoring all of that.

PC gaming back in the day was easier. It either ran, or it pretty much didn't. There weren't as many options back then for parts or software, so less combinations and problems to have to deal with.

 

[Kabouter]

As someone that believed what he read on GAF about how hassle-free gaming on PC has become and spend 1200 EUR to build a gaming PC, I have to disagree with you.

My PS3 with PS+ trumps my gaming PC so hard it's almost laughable that people suggest Steam is a valid alternative for the majority.

Out of curiosity, and feel free to PM since it's sort of a derail, what problems do you run into frequently? I can't speak for anybody else of course, but for me PC gaming has long been clicking to download on Steam, setting stuff in the options menu and then playing. I update my video card driver maybe three times a year or so. That's about it.

 

[StevieP]

Is this not a discussion about benefits of PCs (maximizing graphics / frame rate/ mods) vs convenience?

So, ignore having to hunt into forums and find a fix for a shitty PC port like Dark Souls? (Durante da best). What about improving the terrible performance of GTA4? Skyrim? Mods?

Ignore all the research involved for those wanting to purchase hardware? What about looking up software or hardware options for using your integrated GPU with your discrete GPU? RAID options? Because there ARE options. Not only that, but there is the upkeep as well.

I don't see how you're conveniently ignoring all of that.

PC gaming back in the day was easier. It either ran, or it pretty much didn't. There weren't as many options back then for parts or software, so less combinations and problems to have to deal with.

These are all enthusiast activities. GTA4 performed worse on consoles, as did Skyrim and Dark Souls. But because the options weren't their to tweak your game yourself, you just sorta... dealt with it, right?

You don't have to "deal with it" on PC. You can do research on how to fix it - if you so choose. If the options to tweak were available on consoles, I'm sure we'd have a forum full of tweaks for additional performance.

Sometimes patches fixed stuff up on consoles, sometimes they didn't. But these same patches are going out to PC games. The consoles aren't as simple as "pop the cart in and push the button" anymore. They're really the same in most cases (at an obvious visual compromise). They all freeze and lock up. They all come with many potential issues, including hardware.

If you just want to play games you just double click. You may not be taking full advantage of your hardware that way, but the option is there.

 

[benny_a]

Out of curiosity, and feel free to PM since it's sort of a derail, what problems do you run into frequently? I can't speak for anybody else of course, but for me PC gaming has long been clicking to download on Steam, setting stuff in the options menu and then playing. I update my video card driver maybe three times a year or so. That's about it.

I built the PC as a beefy console.

If we're talking about frequency it's that it doesn't automatically update the games and Steam itself unattended. That in itself is already annoying enough, because it harkens back to the PS3 days where I didn't have PS+ and I had to wait to play.

There are currently not many games out there that I've anticipated so this year the most notable releases for me personally were Tomb Raider, DmC, BioShock: Infinite, Metal Gear Rising, Guacamelee & The Last of Us so I only played 3 notable games on PC this year.

BioShock: Infinite was a 30 minute horror story to get to start up and I can write it down or paste the irc log of when it happened because I had to document the frustration I experienced.

 

[phosphor112]

These are all enthusiast activities. GTA4 performed worse on consoles, as did Skyrim and Dark Souls. But because the options weren't their to tweak your game yourself, you just sorta... dealt with it, right?

You don't have to "deal with it" on PC. You can do research on how to fix it - if you so choose. If the options to tweak were available on consoles, I'm sure we'd have a forum full of tweaks for additional performance.

Sometimes patches fixed stuff up on consoles, sometimes they didn't. But these same patches are going out to PC games. The consoles aren't as simple as "pop the cart in and push the button" anymore. They're really the same in most cases (at an obvious visual compromise). They all freeze and lock up. They all come with many potential issues, including hardware.

If you just want to play games you just double click. You may not be taking full advantage of your hardware that way, but the option is there.

Yes, I've acknowledged how shit many console games run, especially when most are 30fps. I personally love building computers. I started doing it before there even was a turbo button on cases. That's besides the point.

In the end, dealing with consoles is much easier. I just don't see how it's debatable. It's a trade off. But then again, what isn't?

 

[Ardenyal]

If you just want to double-click and play, the option is there for you just as it is on consoles.

Red Orchestra 2 was the game that was drawing me back to PC gaming after a hiatus of 4 years. First 2 days the game was unplayable because I could not connect to servers. Tried a ton of random fixes from message boards and none worked. Finally by accident I stumbled on the solution on GAF.

Not to mention that the mess with gameplay in early RO2 was enough to sour the whole experience (special weapons everywhere, lock ups and general jank).



Some games like DayZ have been well worth the effort though so I'm not completely ditching PC gaming going forward but to say that it's all "double click and grab your dick" is disingenuous.

 

[benny_a]

Some games like DayZ have been well worth the effort though so I'm not completely ditching PC gaming going forward but to say that it's all "double click and grab your dick" is disingenuous.

I'm putting up with it because of the exclusive games and the potential of the Rift later on. That's the only reason I don't think this comparatively massive purchase was a waste. Star Craft 2, Guild Wars 2, Dota 2, The Rift. These are all great things not available anywhere else.

Also I get to test the theory that I read on GAF that no gaming PC purchased in 2011 needs to upgraded to compete with next-gen consoles. (I bought mine in 2012 though based on the enthusiast build here from that time.)

 

[googleplex]

Out of curiosity, and feel free to PM since it's sort of a derail, what problems do you run into frequently? I can't speak for anybody else of course, but for me PC gaming has long been clicking to download on Steam, setting stuff in the options menu and then playing. I update my video card driver maybe three times a year or so. That's about it.

Having to edit files, and install drivers is what has primarily kept me away from PC gaming for years. I'll be building me a Gaming PC next year specifically for the consumer version of the Oculus Rift and I'm deathly afraid of being out if my depth when the time comes.

Just watching some of the YouTube videos of people installing and tweaking things just to start up games using the developers version of the Oculus makes me shutter.

 

[Melchiah]

Also I get to test the theory that I read on GAF that no gaming PC purchased in 2011 needs to upgraded to compete with next-gen consoles. (I bought mine in 2012 though based on the enthusiast build here from that time.)

I'd really like to know how that goes. Will it run the late gen games, over half a decade from now, as good with the same resolution?

 

[benny_a]

I'd really like to know how that goes. Will it run the late gen games, over half a decade from now, as good with the same resolution?

That is the idea, yeah.

 

[JonathanPower]

So the use of double ram chips doesn't, or barely, increase costs.

Do you actually know how a full range of products are fabbed from a single die design? Do you know how much added cost do you need to have a better PCB able to hold more RAM chips?

You use the same number of chips, they just have a higher density. Before the upgrade they used 16 2gbit GDDR5 chips, after the upgrade they use 16 4gbit GDDR5 chips. Thus, they can use the same exact PCB.

 

[phosphor112]

So the use of double ram chips doesn't, or barely, increase costs.

Do you actually know how a full range of products are fabbed from a single die design? Do you know how much added cost do you need to have a better PCB able to hold more RAM chips?

Oh man, you really don't know what you're talking about do you?

 

[dr. apocalipsis]

Oh, lol, you are the one saying that going from 4GB to 8GB is only 10 bucks.

 

[phosphor112]

Oh, lol, you are the one saying that going from 4GB to 8GB is only 10 bucks.

10-20, not "10."

The bus stays the same if they were going from 4 to 8, and so does the board complexity. Most of that money would be going into the higher density chips. Getting double the density chips isn't going to double the cost of each chip.