Chezzymann
Member
Problem is, as much as I'd also want them to be kicked out, I'm not sure if that's even legal since this is a state university. Wouldn't that sadly violate the first amendment?
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Fraternity chanting the n-word
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Problem is, as much as I'd also want them to be kicked out, I'm not sure if that's even legal since this is a state university. Wouldn't that sadly violate the first amendment?
Angelus Errare
Banned
I love how everyone keeps referring to 19-20 year old adults as "kids".
At least revoke their scholarships.Problem is, as much as I'd also want them to be kicked out, I'm not sure if that's even legal since this is a state university. Wouldn't that sadly violate the first amendment?
I was always told that once the old people died racism would be deader than it already because I've also been told that it's already dead and that everyone is just pulling the race card.
It's time to start attacking the race card and whoever says it.
This is not a card game. This isn't Yugio. This is not Magic the Gathering. This shit is not Bid Whist. Who the fuck came up with the idea that pointing out racism is a game card that all black people hold and use? How did that become the implication and accepted enough to become a meme that Sarah Palin can spout?
Problem is, as much as I'd also want them to be kicked out, I'm not sure if that's even legal since this is a state university. Wouldn't that sadly violate the first amendment?
Really only matters what is in the University Code of Conduct and if that can be applied to what appears to be not on campus, or at a campus function, or while using university resources.
Liquidus Snake
Banned
I love how everyone keeps referring to 19-20 year old adults as "kids".
Haha i remember during the martin case they made sure to brand him as an "adult" when he was like 16 at the time. Its the sad reality of racial bias now, apparently if you arent "white" you are automatically rounded up by age at least 5+ years.
So for example:
White Guy: Age 16=16 [Teenager]
Any other Race Guy: Age 16=21 [Grown ass man]
I promise it really isn't that simple. Likely what would happen is that OU would get sued and then lose in open court.
While I understand what you're saying, I think you misread the question. The question was: What would expelling the students accomplish? To which I replied that expulsion would be establishing a zero-tolerance policy for racist and hateful behavior at the institution.
I'm certain the legal proceedings would get messy, because unfortunately, the parents of these children will say and do anything to protect their children's future - including defending the abhorrent acts of their kin.
Members of the fraternity have committed a hateful and discriminatory act. The lyrics that they sang are that of Klansmen. Would it be a smart decision for the school to allow Klansmen-inspired students to be associated with their institution?
There was a report that people see black boys as older and less innocent so it's not surprising that posters see these white guys as teens who's precious lives would be wrecked if they were expelled.Haha i remember during the martin case they made sure to brand him as an "adult" when he was like 16 at the time. Its the sad reality of racial bias now, apparently if you arent "white" you are automatically rounded up by age at least 5+ years.
So for example:
White Guy: Age 16=16 [Teenager]
Any other Race Guy: Age 16=21 [Grown ass man]
Their whole initiation process already says everything about how moronic the whole Greek culture is.
As a European who knows about this hazing bullshit only from movies, it just blows my mind. That's something alleged adults do over there? I'd expect this on an elementary school playground, but not a goddamn university.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Unbelievable... Or not really, but these things should've been unbelievable in our day and age.
These youngsters should probably be forced to go through some sort of program (after they're booted out of the fraternity and the university)
These youngsters should probably be forced to go through some sort of program (after they're booted out of the fraternity and the university)
King Tubby
Member
I love how everyone keeps referring to 19-20 year old adults as "kids".
If they were truly mature they would've known to conceal their racism better. /s
I say this as someone who isn't white, who grew up largely in a black/hispanic social circle, who went to a mostly white college and ran into idiots who expressed racist shit like this on a semi-regular basis. I call them "dumb kids" because joining in a shitty racist chant is an easy thing to do, the kind of thing kids do to "fit in". A couple of my black friends said ignorant shit about gays and women when we were around this age and I chalked it up to being dumb kids, too. I wouldn't have wanted them to be expelled or ostracized if that shit were caught on tape.
If they went and beat someone up or raped someone it wouldn't be dumb kids anymore, regardless of skin color. If they went and spray painted these slurs on the walls of the "ethnic" fraternity (as happened in my time there), or in any other way put action behind these words, that's when in my mind they rise to the level of piece of shit scum. Certainly punish and shame them, but it's very hard for me to condemn all of them. Especially since we don't have all of them on tape and we don't know who in the frat was joining in or not.
The people I DO condemn are the leadership of the frat who likely propagated, certainly condoned and allowed this shit to occur. They're almost certainly guilty of discriminatory practices as well, and they should be expelled with prejudice.
teruterubozu
Member
I love how everyone keeps referring to 19-20 year old adults as "kids".
College kids are still....kids.
theignoramus
Member
And people were salty at "Dear White People" for saying this kind of shit was a thing on US college campuses. Fuckouttahere.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
And people were salty at "Dear White People" for saying this kind of shit was a thing on US college campuses. Fuckouttahere.
Good movie.
Kitschkraft
Member
I hope they get kicked the fuck out of school.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
No shit. I shouldn't be surprised, there's a defense force for everything on this board.
Boot them out and put in on their record. They can attend a different university or community college. Decent people shouldn't have to put up with these assholes, and they shouldn't get off with a tap on the wrist either.
People love to make excuses for this stuff.
While i agree that they should be punished, but what good would expelling them do? Send a message to others? That won´t stop racism or stupid racist remarks from happening. Hell they might even become much more hateful than they already are.
Dreams-Visions
Member
The fact that I find this utterly unsurprising is really depressing.
It's really sad man. Remember back when people believed racism was on its way out and that it would die with the birth of new generations well removed from America's troubled past?
welp.
Ugh. Just imagine all the things that aren't recorded. All the thoughts that aren't said out loud. No rest for the wicked.
real life is more like 4chan and stormfront (and much less like GAF) than I think people realized.
What a bunch of idiots.
I wish I was there during the planning session for this chant. I mean it wasn't just spontaneous, they thought this out. Was there an editing process? Were there rewrites? Cut lyrics? Did they focus test it with other racists? How are people even aware of the chant? At what point of the initiation does "racist chants" come into play?
I wish I was there during the planning session for this chant. I mean it wasn't just spontaneous, they thought this out. Was there an editing process? Were there rewrites? Cut lyrics? Did they focus test it with other racists? How are people even aware of the chant? At what point of the initiation does "racist chants" come into play?
GoldenEye 007
Member
Typical in a relative sense, but yeah. We're talking about alcohol-infused exclusionary social circles comprised of people who largely have no experience in the real world or with other cultures.
That's certainly one way to rationalize it (I don't mean you are).
I would argue college itself is alcohol-infused. From there, yeah I suppose it is very likely student groups, being tapped from that same pool of students, would engage in behavior that is dangerous. From DUIs to sexual assault/rape.
I don't disagree there are issues to be addressed, but like anything I dislike painting an absolute brush like some people are doing here. Believe it or not, there are also many people in Greek life that are working to stamp out stuff like this and return organizations to productive members of the campus community. Many are doing that and some campuses/chapters need much more work.
While I understand what you're saying, I think you misread the question. The question was: What would expelling the students accomplish? To which I replied that expulsion would be establishing a zero-tolerance policy for racist and hateful behavior at the institution.
I'm certain the legal proceedings would get messy, because unfortunately, the parents of these children will say and do anything to protect their children's future - including defending the abhorrent acts of their kin.
Members of the fraternity have committed a hateful and discriminatory act. The lyrics that they sang are that of Klansmen. Would it be a smart decision for the school to allow Klansmen-inspired students to be associated with their institution?
I agree. If I'm the president of this university, do I want these students on my campus? Absolutely not. But likely there is little to be done. So a smart decision? Depends on how much litigation they think they risk facing. The money, time, and effort trying to prove this speech isn't protected. I think the smart move is for senior leadership to say this was fucking dumb, our university does not endorse this, and racism is a disgusting and ill-advised... and good riddance on the chapter being kicked off by the national organization.
I love how everyone keeps referring to 19-20 year old adults as "kids".
19-21 yr old whites are referred to as kids. a 14 yr old black boy is old enough to be intimidating and therefore deserves to be shot.
Dreams-Visions
Member
What a bunch of idiots.
I wish I was there during the planning session for this chant. I mean it wasn't just spontaneous, they thought this out. Was there an editing process? Were there rewrites? Cut lyrics? Did they focus test it with other racists? How are people even aware of the chant? At what point of the initiation does "racist chants" come into play?
It's a frat.
They've been singing it for generations. Their fathers were probably in the same frat and they required new pledges to learn them and they subsequently did the same for everyone after them. It is undoubtedly just part of what they do.
RyougaSaotome
Member
Holy shit... can't even...
Am I the only one whose reaction to something like this is to laugh loudly? Like, at first you think 'maybe it's not so bad', then you read what happened, and it's not just bad, but it's like something written by a bad scriptwriter of a CSI episode or something? Something you wouldn't believe if it was on TV? Isn't there something fundamentaly humorous and absurd in the year of our lord 2015 that
a) these morons hold these views
b) these morons air these views in public
c) these morons don't understand the pervasive nature of cameras in society, and
d) these morons may have ruined their futures over a fucking song that some of them were probably singing just to be edgy?
My reaction to anything unbelievable or absurd is usually laughter. And this is completely fucking unbelievable and absurd.
Dem boys gonna have the book thrown at them. Maybe one of them might pick it up afterwards and learn something. Just astonishing. Fucking astonishing.
This is the perfect post.
I can't even begin to imagine how people are even attempting to defend this, and yet I'm somehow also not surprised at all.
What a bunch of idiots.
I wish I was there during the planning session for this chant. I mean it wasn't just spontaneous, they thought this out. Was there an editing process? Were there rewrites? Cut lyrics? Did they focus test it with other racists? How are people even aware of the chant? At what point of the initiation does "racist chants" come into play?
I would imagine it was a 'traditional' chant for the frat. I sincerely doubt these kids came up with it.
Sad thing is that there will I imagine be frats with similar chants who are just smart/lucky enough for them to not have been filmed.
Everyone on the tape should lose their scholarships. Everyone not chanting should be reprimanded formally on their records, for not intervening, nor reporting it to authorities. Everyone chanting should be suspended for a year, at minimum. Members of sports teams should be ejected from their teams. Unfortunately, OSU's student conduct policies are pretty non-existent when it comes to racist behavior.
And any SAE branch caught sticking up for them should be closed. In addition, all SAE branches should be forced to engage in racial relations/sensitivity training.
And any SAE branch caught sticking up for them should be closed. In addition, all SAE branches should be forced to engage in racial relations/sensitivity training.
teruterubozu
Member
Figures. SAE frat boys were elitist assholes in my school.
Everyone on the tape should lose their scholarships. Everyone not chanting should be reprimanded formally on their records, for not intervening, nor reporting it to authorities. Everyone chanting should be suspended for a year, at minimum. Members of sports teams should be ejected from their teams. Unfortunately, OSU's student conduct policies are pretty non-existent when it comes to racist behavior.
And any SAE branch caught sticking up for them should be closed. In addition, all SAE branches should be forced to engage in racial relations/sensitivity training.
This is the best approach I've seen yet.
Fraternities in the South are jam packed full of the biggest racist douchebags imaginable. I know this is Oklahoma, but I imagine the culture isn't terribly different there.
I knew a lot of frat guys at SEC/large southern schools and partied with them on occasion, and I'm really not exaggerating when I say that 95% of them would probably join in on a chant like this without giving it a second thought.
Yeah just the south. The last stronghold of racism in the USA
I love how everyone keeps referring to 19-20 year old adults as "kids".
Lead Based Paint made a great post in that DEA thread in regards to the idea of what constitutes a 'child' especially when it comes to ethnicity.
No, because they are black and fundamentally different from them white folk. See, when a white "child"; I use parentheses because a white "child" can be anywhere from 2 to 29 years old, depending on it's convenient to those in power. Now a black "man" can be anywhere from 12-126, depending on whether they are in custody, suspicious, thuggish, ever consumed a drug, or dead.
These "children" need to have a second chance and learn from their mistakes without consequence. These "adults" made their choice and deserve the full extent of police force, especially if they have the gall to question their treatment.
Fast forward a couple years, and wonder why these children are so keen to judge others so harshly and without a shred of empathy, whilst simultaneously protecting the system that they so benefit from. Wait I'm sorry, they got there all on there own without any help from NOBODY.
The idea of the 'second chance' usually for 'kids' that more often than not have good lives planned out for them is always stomach turning.
Boren responded on Twitter, saying, "If the video is indeed of OU students, this behavior will not be tolerated and is contrary to all of our values."
Brad Cohen, the national president of Sigma Alpha Epsilon, said the chapter "has immediately been placed on a cease and desist."
In a series of tweets, the national SAE organization said it was aware of the video and was "shocked and appalled." It said it was investigating and "will sanction those who are responsible."
"I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"
I disagree - I think stuff like this is small potatoes compared to actual hate and discrimination.
I don't think i'm willing to stick a "do not admit this guy to your school" on someone's record because they laughed at a racist chant or joke when they were 19.
Chanting "hang them from a tree" = "not actual hate"
Never change, Enron.
Chanting "hang them from a tree" = "not actual hate"
Never change, Enron.
His posts are bearing some "Strange Fruit",
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Chanting "hang them from a tree" = "not actual hate"
Never change, Enron.
That line is extremely repulsive. What the fuck were they thinking? Racist assholes.
It boggled my mind when I read that post as well. Its like some people in this thread missed the part where they were chanting that shitChanting "hang them from a tree" = "not actual hate"
Never change, Enron.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I'm just going to assume instead of singing Kumbaya at a campfire they just chant this instead. Unlucky for them (fortunately for the world) someone decided to tape it for once. The only thing that I wonder is if this person was doing it to show the world this shit, or if they were saving it to remember these good old times on the bus.
Sounds like an old chant thats been used for a while. I seriously doubt this single branch of the frat came up with the chant.
This is the more disturbing part. The frat and university will treat this as an isolated incident; I really doubt this bunch of 19 year olds spontaneously came up with this song. It's like that UVA rape song that someone assured me no one had ever heard, and I pulled up a YouTube video of the glee club singing it.
Of course not. Greek Society on campuses are still pretty much segregated. Rarely do you have white guys pledging black organizations or vice-versa.
Because in the end they were just chanting/joking/whatever some racist shit on a bus. I think this is pretty stupid and reprehensible, but I don't know if its something I want to see people kicked out of school for either.
If you don't kick people out of school for relishing in the thought of lynching their fellow classmates, what do you do it for?
Edit: Just read your clarification. Would anything short of dressing in white sheets, burning swastikas, and beating people be seen as "real hate" by your definition?
FUBAR McDangles
Member
Just last night a guy in SAE up here at my school was all down about it. His chapter did nothing wrong but already they're getting bad publicity from it and already people are starting to blame them for this even though we are several states away.
Probably because this isn't an isolated thing.Just last night a guy in SAE up here at my school was all down about it. His chapter did nothing wrong but already they're getting bad publicity from it and already people are starting to blame them for this even though we are several states away.
So apparently a month ago someone on reddit claims that a Texas chapter of SAE also sings this song.
http://i.reddit.com/r/Austin/commen...texas_fraternity_pledge_rules/cogo0pq.compact
Yup sounds like this isn't an isolated incident, the songs seems pretty known.
As a Phi Kappa Psi member, doesn't surprise me one bit. SAE's were always a nutty group, up there with TKE.
Have fun working at McDonalds.
These kids go to school in Oklahoma. They were always going to be working at Mcdonalds, or maybe a car dealership at best.
This is typical Greek behavior. They all hate people different than them because they are full of losers who had to pay to have friends
theignoramus
Member
Misogyny, homophobia, racism, male chauvinism, and violent hazing, the common theme with frats seems to be their determination to cling to a 1950s era social outlook.
King Tubby
Member
This is the more disturbing part. The frat and university will treat this as an isolated incident; I really doubt this bunch of 19 year olds spontaneously came up with this song. It's like that UVA rape song that someone assured me no one had ever heard, and I pulled up a YouTube video of the glee club singing it.
We've already seen evidence that this exact same song (with slight variations probably) was sung by another chapter of SAE at the University of Texas. I wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes.
If you don't kick people out of school for relishing in the thought of lynching their fellow classmates, what do you do it for?
As reprehensible as it is, I'm conflicted about expelling students for speech. If they were chanting it at minorities to harass them and make them feel uncomfortable, they should be gone. Among themselves? I don't know. I think the ringleaders should be expelled for allowing and condoning this and the rest of the people involved should be strongly reprimanded.
I'm reminded of the thread from a few months ago about a dentistry school where a bunch of students had a "gentlemens" facebook group where they insulted women and talked about sexually assaulting them. I felt like the people who actually made the comments about their classmates should've been kicked out while the more passive members should have gotten a reprimand. In the end I believe all of them were expelled.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Edit: Just read your clarification. Would anything short of dressing in white sheets, burning swastikas, and beating people be seen as "real hate" by your definition?
That's how it always is with these stories, the threshold for what counts as "real" keeps getting shifted to make idiots like this look innocent.
Anyways you'd have to be really naive to think anybody who's willing to showcase enough disrespect for black students that they'll happily do a chant about lynching would never display any other type of discrimination against them. I'm expecting some fascinating stories to come from a few current or former alumni to pop up over the next few days.
Oh, wow.
I expected a "nigga" thrown casually, and look what a clusterfuck that is.
"Hanging from a tree"?
Close the chapter (Done!), investigate the whole frat, prosecute everyone involved to the fullest extent of what the university policies allow.
Not that anything's gonna happen, rich white kids in oklahoma.
I expected a "nigga" thrown casually, and look what a clusterfuck that is.
"Hanging from a tree"?
Close the chapter (Done!), investigate the whole frat, prosecute everyone involved to the fullest extent of what the university policies allow.
Not that anything's gonna happen, rich white kids in oklahoma.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
12. RIP Tamir Rice. That 20 year old middle schooler.It depends on whether or not they're black males, who become men at 18.
Do you really think something like this is "typical" out of the hundreds of organizations, thousands of chapters, at thousands of campuses, with tens of thousands of members active and millions of alumni members?
It's been awhile since I was in school, but my experiences at NMSU point to it being typical yes.
I'm sure OU has a code of conduct. Just because it's a public University doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. Just as if it were a job there are certain requirements and standards that need to be upheld otherwise you can get the boot.Problem is, as much as I'd also want them to be kicked out, I'm not sure if that's even legal since this is a state university. Wouldn't that sadly violate the first amendment?
As an alumni of Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity this is appalling to me on so many levels as this is far beyond was is instilled in us when joining the fraternity. Especially coming from my own chapter that has African American members and welcomed a non Greek Africa American student to live in our house. Ryan was welcomed and treated as a brother from the day he moved in.
I'm happy Brad took action and closed down the chapter. There is no room for this in our organization.
I'm happy Brad took action and closed down the chapter. There is no room for this in our organization.
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