Lol anything those guys release I'd buy just for the challenge alone.
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Scalebound cancelled [Platinum Games and Kamiya have commented]
- Thread starter SteveO409
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Lol anything those guys release I'd buy just for the challenge alone.
onemanasylum
Banned
WTF is this?
Yeah In an ideal world, every announced game would come in at budget, be well received critically and commercially, and be technically sound.
But in the real world, such a product is, frankly, an exception. "Having a lot of money" doesn't forgoe the difficulty of delivering a good product, ontime, and at budget.
its funny you bring up MCC, because they spent a lot of money bringing that game to market, and it was a technical peice of shit, but they CHOSE TO release it anyway and took a massive blow to credibility.
We've had Quantum Break, which had development hurdles, MS stuck with it, spent boatloads, and eventually delivered a technically sound game that had middling critical and poor sales reception. Can it really be argued that the existence of QB benefited MS' positioning in anyway?
Now we have Scalebound, which for all we know could have also been a technical peice of shit, and they CHOSE NOT TO release it, and still are taking a massive blow to credibility.
So we have three similar scenarios, each handled in different ways, and they all resulted in negative results for MS. Sure the delaying QB and releasing it probably FEELS best to the few consumers that bought it and enjoyed it (like me). But from a business standpoint, it likely wasn't worth it.
So I just can't get with the idea that anyone on the outside can say what's THE correct way to handle a title that isn't shaping up well.
One man asylum
So...about Phil Spencer.
Honeymoon over I guess ? Looking back I see major contradictions between the things he says and the things that have occured under him. I thought he was a nerd, gamer but he reminds me of that boss you visit on a job interview and afterwards thanks you and says a lot of great stuff and ends with expect a call soon and never does.He always talked about how important developers are, especially Japanese, and how those relationships are key and how they need to go far with them. He talked about taking risks which under him rarely happened. Now he's taken out exclusives, cancelled so many games and made the brand weaker.Yeah back compat is great but look at the lineup. It's the worst xbox lineup I can remember. So what else has Phil Spencer done except for saying all the right things but failing to deliver on them. Every time he says something positive I just can't take it serious anymore and just see it as insincere. Is he a good leader for xbox ? I'd argue that at this point he's done a poor job. I don't think his ideas are great for xbox. Removing exclusives is also a major error on their end imo. I mean if you work for over 3 years on a project and you end up cancelling it for whatever reason...and done this multiple times in the past years. That's poor judgement. And even if they announce a ton of games at E3 I doubt they'll release within a year so that'll extend their quite bad portfolio over many more years. I mean looking back at 360's first 4 years and comparing it to the last 4 years..portfolio is NIGHT AND DAY. Just awful. And before people say well they did Sunset Overdrive which was a risk and sold just ok...as if Gears sold great ? Let's face it their greed has or is about to kill off Gears and Halo. Each release is selling worse than the previous one. All because they have no real plan. I love Halo and I love Gears but they should have managed those IPs much more carefully and with much more love. Phil had said how important Halo was and how they need to treat it with respect and love and quality over quantity. Halo 5's SP is one of the worst campaign games I've played. Again he says a lot of good stuff you want to hear but the end product shows a complete different picture. Too many times he says the stuff you want to hear and too many times the end product contradicts the things he says. The difference between Sony and Xbox this gen is evident. Xbox saves a couple million dollars but is ok with damaging their brand even more in the public eye (which to me is more harmful than those couple millions they end up losing) and Sony risks those losses to keep a healthy relationship with devs, more collabs and maintains a good image to the public eye and its gamers. One acts like a corporation with suits (for a guy who hates suits Phil sure does love to act like one) and other acts like they actually care about the console first and foremost. I think if anything has to change it's this.
Honeymoon over I guess ? Looking back I see major contradictions between the things he says and the things that have occured under him. I thought he was a nerd, gamer but he reminds me of that boss you visit on a job interview and afterwards thanks you and says a lot of great stuff and ends with expect a call soon and never does.He always talked about how important developers are, especially Japanese, and how those relationships are key and how they need to go far with them. He talked about taking risks which under him rarely happened. Now he's taken out exclusives, cancelled so many games and made the brand weaker.Yeah back compat is great but look at the lineup. It's the worst xbox lineup I can remember. So what else has Phil Spencer done except for saying all the right things but failing to deliver on them. Every time he says something positive I just can't take it serious anymore and just see it as insincere. Is he a good leader for xbox ? I'd argue that at this point he's done a poor job. I don't think his ideas are great for xbox. Removing exclusives is also a major error on their end imo. I mean if you work for over 3 years on a project and you end up cancelling it for whatever reason...and done this multiple times in the past years. That's poor judgement. And even if they announce a ton of games at E3 I doubt they'll release within a year so that'll extend their quite bad portfolio over many more years. I mean looking back at 360's first 4 years and comparing it to the last 4 years..portfolio is NIGHT AND DAY. Just awful. And before people say well they did Sunset Overdrive which was a risk and sold just ok...as if Gears sold great ? Let's face it their greed has or is about to kill off Gears and Halo. Each release is selling worse than the previous one. All because they have no real plan. I love Halo and I love Gears but they should have managed those IPs much more carefully and with much more love. Phil had said how important Halo was and how they need to treat it with respect and love and quality over quantity. Halo 5's SP is one of the worst campaign games I've played. Again he says a lot of good stuff you want to hear but the end product shows a complete different picture. Too many times he says the stuff you want to hear and too many times the end product contradicts the things he says. The difference between Sony and Xbox this gen is evident. Xbox saves a couple million dollars but is ok with damaging their brand even more in the public eye (which to me is more harmful than those couple millions they end up losing) and Sony risks those losses to keep a healthy relationship with devs, more collabs and maintains a good image to the public eye and its gamers. One acts like a corporation with suits (for a guy who hates suits Phil sure does love to act like one) and other acts like they actually care about the console first and foremost. I think if anything has to change it's this.
onemanasylum
Banned
lol touche my friend.
Kazuo Hirai
I really want everyone to know how much more Titanfall 2 sold than Nioh. It was a staggering amount.
I am ok with Phil, he is a good guy.
But he isn't as great as Kazuo Hirai who save PS3, expand first party and take the crown back.
Good isn't enough for Xboxone now.
But he isn't as great as Kazuo Hirai who save PS3, expand first party and take the crown back.
Good isn't enough for Xboxone now.
It should be obvious, they only signed Platinum to troll them and their fans.
breveglieri
Banned
Tooting your own horn, Kaz?
shanafan
Member
Then why isn't EA Access on the PS4? If Sony wants to put gamers first, shouldn't EA Access be a no-brainer?
CassidyIzABeast
Member
In hindsight E3 2014 ended up being a showcase of missteps, fuck ups, and just plain ol bad luck.
Once Peter left Lionhead it was a wrap. Eurogamer post-mortem said as much in regards to wanting Lionhead to move to F2P.
The more concerning thing about Microsoft is every new IP except for Ori pretty much bombed or just did okay. They got Halo wth the OGX, They got Gears with the 360, they went to the well this generation and it was dry. That's not good. We'll see that makes them gun shy going forward.
shanafan
Member
And unfortunately about E3 2014, Phil took over the Xbox division earlier in the year and couldn't change a whole lot right before E3. IMO, any missteps in E3 2014 would be attributed to the Don Mattrick era.
Many will disagree but I don't think that phantom dust or scale bound were necessarily shown too early. If that kotaku report was correct development was going well at first. The real problem was that MS announced the game with a CG trailer without telling the dev team and management of these two games were bad.
If a dev wants to announced a game (even with a CG trailer) I say let them. Pubs announcing games without dev approval is bad and should never happen.
There is always a risk for games getting canceled. Even ones announced very late in development.
If a dev wants to announced a game (even with a CG trailer) I say let them. Pubs announcing games without dev approval is bad and should never happen.
There is always a risk for games getting canceled. Even ones announced very late in development.
AnthonypUK
Member
To be honest i don't think too much can be laid at him, however annoying the cult of personality that has sprung up around him can be, he was dropped into a shitty situation.
Its fairly clear the purse strings have been tightened, look at the cash that must have been spent marketing a game that they didn't own - Titanfall, and compare that to the marketing they did for a game they do own - Gears 4. It's clear that pre console release and into 2013 they had pretty close to a blank cheque, but then you see the constant underwhelming sales figures of every title, how much kinect must have cost them etc.
It must have been said from upon high that they have to scale back things and just churn out what profit they they can from their on going US and UK userbase, as they've made reduction in marketing roles in places like the EU and the east.
I don't buy that, maybe if those games would have actually been in development for a long time..maybe, but it is clear from the CG trailers, those games were freshly signed, i think they were all on Phil. Anything like Fable, Spark, are definitly mattrick things.
you also have to remember Spencer was head of Microsoft games studios, so he would have even had some sway and say in the direction.
Actually, this is another reason why cancelling Scalebound after 4 years of AAA development may have adverse effects on the Xbox brand, regardless of the market potential of the game. This will likely (in combination with the other cancellations) reflect badly on MS as a publisher, thus potentially making deals for them more difficult/costly.
In relation to your post, I think the position of MS to negotiate a new exclusive with FS is not strong at all at this point.
onemanasylum
Banned
People still using Don as a scapegoat lol., Phil was head of MS studios for years. Don had bosses just like Phil so what's good for the goose is good for the Gander no?
I agree with a lot of what you're saying. A few things:
I think "having a lot of money" could have absolutely helped MCC. Whether you need to spend more to scrap it and reboot the development before you ship it and give it another year or two, do it.
"having a lot of money" (also meaning extra dev time) could have maybe helped Scalebound? We'll never know. I feel like Microsoft should have released something regardless of the critical reception. This is only different than Halo MCC for me because one is an already established IP they are in jeopardy of tainting with a bad release, and the other one is a new IP from Platinum Game. Chances are, they should have known what they were signing up for.
Put me on record here saying that I think the cancellation of Scalebound matters less than Platinum Games being okay. As long as Microsoft was good about the cancellation and left them in a place to find new work soon, that's all I really want. Because abruptly cancelling the work of a 100+ independent dev team sounds like a nightmare scenario to me, and I hope it wasn't the case.
They care about the console. They see through many delayed games. Look at their portfolio. Yeah lack of ea access is their mistake but it's a drop in the ocean compared to all the great things they've done for the console and its gamers. Can we say the same about Xbox today ? I'd say it's much more than a drop. Much..MUCH more.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
MS would have no interest in working with FROM as their type of games would have a super niche audience on Xbox. I think this cancellation is more evidence of MS doubling down on the dudebro genres going forward - fps, arcade racer and 3rd person shoota.
Comfort Jones
Banned
MS would not know how to handle letting From Software just do their thing. I feel like this thread alone should help you understand why this scenario isn't happening.
Zero chances that happens
Sony work their asses off to get games on their system period. Sure a tone of these games are not exclusive (PC) but that does not matter. Consoles need games completely exclusive or not and Sony is kicking Microsoft ass in that regard.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
No-one 'fucked up' it's more likely MS took the correct decision that this type of game on Xbox was going to bomb. And that the game didn't look great also sealed its fate.
Well, Platinum is probably under NDA about the situation, so the only way we can know anything for certain is if Microsoft will start talking. I doubt they will, either they have to kick Platinum by saying they were at fault, which could be detrimental to their opportunities for third party collaborations, or they say they were at fault, which will give them quite some backlash over it and further alienate the hardcore fanbase. That's why Microsoft won't talk imo, and as a result we won't get any official explanation beyond "the project just didn't come together". Saying the project won't be financially feasible due to lacking interest won't go over very well either in my eyes, so I can't see them come out with that either.
Outrun
Member
What is the exact problem that you have?
Peroroncino
Member
I expected something more juicy from Kamiya's comment, but I guess he's still under contract. I bet he wants to vent, but Platinum games is probably in enough trouble as it is.
GARlockSpiral
Member
No, but the writing's on the wall for a brief overview:
You have one publisher with a history of screwing over developers.
You have a developer with a history of pumping out projects consistently.
I might be wrong, but in this case, the finger pointing seems accurate.
shanafan
Member
Any reputable developer who still wants to make titles will prefer to publicly remain silent about any prior business dealings. No matter what they say, other people (publishers) could look at in a different light and avoid doing future business with them.
As a Vita owner this talk about Sony caring is quite funny.
In any case in glad Kamiya is okay.
Or maybe the situation isnt nearly as dramatic as some people want it be.
mrmickfran
Member
And Kamiya's spamming my Twitter feed again.
Yaaayyyyy~
Yaaayyyyy~
Outrun
Member
Peroroncino
Member
Well yeah, but Kamiya isn't exactly know for his self-restraint, he once tweeted something along the lines of: "those shits at microsoft, are they fucking with me" while he was developing SB.
So considering how tempered this tweet is, I'm almost sure he'd like to write something different, but he can't.
It sourced from people speculating. Dude says he's fine on twitter, so I'm gonna take him at face value.
All things considered, Gio Corsi is at least still doing his best to rep the system.
Outrun
Member
Sorry that I was not clear.
I was using that rumor from yesterday proven false, as proof that we should wait before passing judgement.
Crimson_Gold
Member
The truth of the matter is that Sony launched and sorted Vita. The handheld market ain't what it used to be.
Uncharted
Kill zone
Lbp
MNR
PlayStation all-star
Sly
I mean, what did everyone expect? Mobile killed the handheld star
Please I hope not. For all it's warts I would hate to see GAF implode.
C'mon even if there were evidence (and I'm not saying who is at fault) that MS didn't do anything wrong - some people here would ignore it.
Team Andromeda
Member
Looking over Fromsoftware output on the Xbox . I highly highy doubt Ninja Blade was MS making and seems to me FromSoftware was allowed to go totally bonkers with over the top action and QTE events
NinjaCoachZ
Member
It was funny to see how many retweets from his waifu he has to catch up on.
onemanasylum
Banned
Lot's of MS defense going around from people who don't know what happened.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
The only misstep of E3 2014 is that a bunch of games didn't work out years after the fact. Aint much you can do to change that. Shit happens.
Steverulez
Member
I think the solution would be to not announce games so soon. I don't really mind stuff like that but given 3 games from that show we're cancelled and one we haven't seen for 16 months, it's probably not a very good idea for them to go so early.
Also Fable Legends was a dumb idea in the first place that should never have been greenlit.
RIP Lionhead
I feel bad for Kamiya, especially since he's wanted to make this game for a while.
I thought he was replying to a tweet in that post.
I thought he was replying to a tweet in that post.
shanafan
Member
Lot's of Platinum Games defense going around from people who don't know what happened.
I can do it too
But, the OP is correct. No one knows.
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