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[SenjutsuSage]

It's time to leak some stuff insiders. New console info/rumors is your time to shine, don't miss this opportunity!

Yea, what the hell do you have to lose? What the HELL do you have to lose? You get trolled walking down the street, you have no jobs, your girlfriend left you for the gardener. The only path forward is to leak what you know about Scorpio.

 

[gofreak]

The thing is, they aren't. Ps4 pro is just an upgraded ps4. Like a slim revision, only for 4k. It is not changing any of Sony's plans moving forward. Ie, there will be a console gen reset when ps5 launched.

Scorpio is not solely an upgrade to Xbox one for 4k. It is being positioned as the future of ms's "generation less" consoles. Scorpio will play Xbox one games, but also the games that come out in the future, when Scorpios own succusor is revealed. This backwards and forwards comparable game plan needs a console that is designed for the present but also mindful of the future. For this reason, unlike the pro, I just don't see jaguar as being sufficient.

Do we have any of this from the horse's mouth?

In the last Phil Spencer interview on this (that I've seen), he talks about how 'generationless' means Xbox One and Scorpio will be compatible with each other, but beyond that he doesn't know right now.

There seems to be a common assumption that Scorpio will be the baseline spec for the next cycle of Xbox software - and that may turn out to be true - but as far as I can see MS is keeping their options open in terms of what boxes will play what software. Seems to me it's still possible the next cycle could start with another future box as the baseline instead of Scorpio, if it isn't up to scratch by the time that next cycle needs to start (and, e.g., perhaps in particular if Jaguar or a close variant is involved in Scorpio).

 

[The Artisan]

i'm excited for this announcement...if it's even fuckin confirmed at this point

 

[Skiptastic]

Just because MS has said 'end of generations' doesn't mean it's true. At least not fully.

As long as I can play Xbox One games (and hopefully 360) games on future consoles past Scorpio, I'm fine with "no more generations".

 

[derFeef]

The negative reviews were bullshit. It's one of the best games Remedy has ever made, and one of the best action games in years.

Oh, and the story and characters were awesome.

I adore Alan Wake and everything Remedy does, but I was a bit let down by QB. Characters, story and graphics were fantastic, but the gameplay did not do anything special. It was fun, but only functional fun. They need to improve pacing an variety.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

The thing is, they aren't. Ps4 pro is just an upgraded ps4. Like a slim revision, only for 4k. It is not changing any of Sony's plans moving forward. Ie, there will be a console gen reset when ps5 launched.

Scorpio is not solely an upgrade to Xbox one for 4k. It is being positioned as the future of ms's "generation less" consoles. Scorpio will play Xbox one games, but also the games that come out in the future, when Scorpios own succusor is revealed. This backwards and forwards comparable game plan needs a console that is designed for the present but also mindful of the future. For this reason, unlike the pro, I just don't see jaguar as being sufficient.

I'm not really a fan of the PR "no more generations" talk because whatever they want to call it, it's still a new machine at the end of the day. Scorpio is an upgraded Xbox One (especially if the Xbox One X name is real) and whatever comes after Scorpio will be a new machine too and by that point, those games won't be running on Xbox One.

There will be next gen machines regardless of how MS want to spin it, it's just that games will still run on the console before it too but there will be a cut off point for each console at some point. Also PS5 might be backwards compatible, now they are using PC tech, unless Sony move away from PC tech and go back to making a custom architecture for it, seems unlikely now though now.

I guess the CPU is the biggest unknown, when it comes to Scorpio. I'm sure it will be decent but I'm not expecting anything top end, best to keep expectations realistic.

 

[RowdyReverb]

I wonder if it will still support HDMI in and Kinect. Those things are important to my wife tolerating the Xbox in the living room

 

[Agnostic Priest]

For that money you can get a PC that will destroy a Scorpio and will play all its exclusives. Why wait?

Some people enjoy gaming on a console believe it or not! I bought an LG B6 last month in preparation for the Scorpio, it's not like I can't afford a PC

 

[tiredheadcrab]

The thing is, they aren't. Ps4 pro is just an upgraded ps4. Like a slim revision, only for 4k. It is not changing any of Sony's plans moving forward. Ie, there will be a console gen reset when ps5 launched.

Scorpio is not solely an upgrade to Xbox one for 4k. It is being positioned as the future of ms's "generation less" consoles. Scorpio will play Xbox one games, but also the games that come out in the future, when Scorpios own succusor is revealed. This backwards and forwards comparable game plan needs a console that is designed for the present but also mindful of the future. For this reason, unlike the pro, I just don't see jaguar as being sufficient.

I think this sums up what I have been feeling about the PS4 Pro vs Xbox Scorpio. you jsut articulated it better. I do believe Cerny said that generation resets are good for the industry. MS has some work cut out for them if they want to change that.

 

[VincentMatts]

For that money you can get a PC that will destroy a Scorpio and will play all its exclusives. Why wait?

And here he is. Thanks for coming.

 

[leeh]

It's time to leak some stuff insiders. New console info/rumors is your time to shine, don't miss this opportunity!

Lets create a gofundme page to raise money for a marketing campaign to pull anyone in the know to this forum to leak things.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

As long as I can play Xbox One games (and hopefully 360) games on future consoles past Scorpio, I'm fine with "no more generations".

I think that will be guaranteed going forward, at least on Xbox.

 

[iMax]

For that money you can get a PC that will destroy a Scorpio and will play all its exclusives. Why wait?

Some people aren't PC gamers.

 

[Gumbie]

For that money you can get a PC that will destroy a Scorpio and will play all its exclusives. Why wait?

 

[Okami Haundo]

I wonder if it will still support HDMI in and Kinect. Those things are important to my wife tolerating the Xbox in the living room

Chances for HDMI In seem to be 50/50, at least based on the lack of priority for TV app PiP with the new OS. I don't see how it really hurts them to continue including it though.

As for Kinect, I'm not really optimistic. It's likely that they'll continue to support it via that weird adapter that released for the One S, but I don't see us getting the dedicated port back again. I'm hoping for a built-in solution that at least allows native voice controls, but I'm doubtful they'd build in some of the other camera functions.

At the very least, I'd like to see an Xbox camera that can be used for video calls. Either that or a "Kinect lite" or something. Call it "Cortana _____" or something similiar.

 

[op_ivy]

Do we have any of this from the horse's mouth?

In the last Phil Spencer interview on this (that I've seen), he talks about how 'generationless' means Xbox One and Scorpio will be compatible with each other, but beyond that he doesn't know right now.

There seems to be a common assumption that Scorpio will be the baseline spec for the next cycle of Xbox software - and that may turn out to be true - but as far as I can see MS is keeping their options open in terms of what boxes will play what software. The next cycle could well start with another future box as the baseline instead of Scorpio isn't up to scratch by the time that next cycle needs to start (and, e.g., perhaps in particular if Jaguar or a close variant is involved in Scorpio).

I'm pretty sure they've said as much. I think their gpu choice will tell us where their head is at. Jaguar = hedging their bets, possibly backing off from 2016 no more generations talk. Better than jaguar = gen less future.

 

[Complicated]

I think this sums up what I have been feeling about the PS4 Pro vs Xbox Scorpio. you jsut articulated it better. I do believe Cerny said that generation resets are good for the industry. MS has some work cut out for them if they want to change that.

What was his reasoning for that? We saw with this generation it just meant nothing was coming out because nobody would invest in games for these consoles until they had an install base. I fail to see anything but upside by getting rid of generation resets. For consumers, publishers, and developers.

 

[MarveI]

I say this with love but you really shouldn't get your hopes up too much about Zen/Ryzen because it's only going to lead to a lot of hopes being crushed. I always got very hyped about new stuff, in anything really, with very high expectations and they've rarely been met. Best is to expect the worst and go from there.

Even though this subject has been mentioned many times before I wanted to share my thoughts on the price. I kept reading a lot of ''anything over 399 is market suicide''....and wanted to reply to that. I wanted to say I disagree. Take the elite controller for example. 3x the price of your normal controller. But it sold very well for a niche product. Which is what the Scorpio is (X Box One X). The elite controller might not be a good comparison but the thought behind that was price/quality. If we look at some of the very expensive consoles in the past who were priced 499+ we can see that the reason they failed was because the quality wasn't proportionate to its price. As MS has mentioned Scorpio is aimed for the hardcore players, not aimed to sell the most. It's a premium product, the highest class in its own family. So why can't it be priced high ? In fact it should be priced high as long as the quality is up to that price. It wasn't in past experiences.

I'm hoping Scorpio isn't cheap. I'm hoping it isn't under 400 if I'm being honest. Because if it is it's not premium in my eyes. I'll happily pay 600 if the quality is proportionate to its price. When the elite controller released I read many comments saying how expensive it is which I didn't get. I mean if you think it's expensive it's not for you. Buy the cheaper controller. Same with Scorpio. If you want 399 you can't really complain if the quality is lacking. You can't say I want it to be 399 and use Zen lol. What do you want ? Do you want a cheap premium product at 399 with compromises ? Or a higher priced premium product with less compromises ? Because you can't have it both ways.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

There will be no cpu.

Cpu less future

 

[IncognitoPanda]

I'm not really a fan of the PR "no more generations" talk because whatever they want to call it, it's still a new machine at the end of the day. Scorpio is an upgraded Xbox One (especially if the Xbox One X name is real) and whatever comes after Scorpio will be a new machine too and by that point, those games won't be running on Xbox One.

There will be next gen machines regardless of how MS want to spin it, it's just that games will still run on the console before it too but there will be a cut off point for each console at some point.

I guess the CPU is the biggest unknown, when it comes to Scorpio. I'm sure it will be decent but I'm not expecting anything top end, best to keep expectations realistic.

I find that it is the people on this site and such that care whether or not it's called a new generation or not, not MS.

Other than that, I think you are exactly right. Each new hardware upgrade will come with back compat, and the previous ones will have forward compat with a cutoff point. There will probably always be two consoles in circulation with a 3-4 year long span between each time a new one comes and the old one is removed from the shelves.

That means you may get games for a console for 6-8 years if you'd like, which I think is plenty. Most people I know of were pretty hungry for a new gen at the end of the 360/PS3 era. If MS is able to pull this off (God willing), they will have a much mre stable customer base, which again will allow them to put more funding into the Xbox brand, more games and such.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I adore Alan Wake and everything Remedy does, but I was a bit let down by QB. Characters, story and graphics were fantastic, but the gameplay did not do anything special. It was fun, but only functional fun. They need to improve pacing an variety.

The gameplay took the becoming predictable cover based shooter and turned it into a fast paced, almost fighter type, action shooter unlike anything we've had before it. And of course the story had to develop and build to certain kinds of encounters, so they couldn't really throw you into the shit right away. But I feel the action comes full circle in a way that shows you the incredible winner that Remedy has on their hands.

Like Sam Lake said, Quantum Break is a superhero origin story. That was just the beginning. I also felt the game symbolically demonstrates this with the clever return to where it all started setup of the game.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

There will be no cpu.

Cpu less future

What's a CPU?

Cool People United?

 

[Kayant]

So what are the odds of a usb-c/thunderbolt 3 port?

USB-C maybe but is it really needed? Thunderbolt 3 there isn't really I good use case I can think of that you would need it + MS would have to license it from Intel which I can't see happening because of lack of use-case.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Call it an informed guess.

At E3 and participated in Xbox fanfest and got to ask questions directly. It seems almost assured that it will be Zen, and I've spoken to some pretty high up individuals.

http://neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=207095679&postcount=3288

The Internet doesn't forget.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

SenjutsuSage....

 

[Interfectum]

=/

 

[KORNdoggy]

If we look at some of the very expensive consoles in the past who were priced 499+ we can see that the reason they failed was because the quality wasn't proportionate to its price..

you mean like the PS3 which was offering native BC and a top of the line blu ray player that if you bought separately at the time was going to cost upwards of a grand? (and continued to be the best blu ray player money could buy well into it's life?) the value was more than there for the PS3, but it's price was simply too high for a "console" to be sold at. you simply can't breach certain price points as a console. history has proven that. and if all scorpio is bringing to the table to justify a high price point is "native 4k" it will die on it's arse.

it won't be the sweet spot price it should be. but i don't think it will be $600 either. it'll do about as well as the PRO is doing. maybe worse due to not being market leader.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

time for him to perform some Tajū Kage Bunshin no Jutsu for his escape!

 

[VincentMatts]

http://neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=207095679&postcount=3288

The Internet doesn't forget.

is it a big diff between the 2? Im not super knowledgeable when it comes to cpus.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Well that's the thing. Most console games are not going to be 60fps, especially at ~4K. Which in itself lowers the need for a much better CPU.

The Jaguar can do 30fps all day long. The GPU will be doing the bulk of the work, which we know is vastly improved.

Unless the developer would opt for checkerboard 4K or even 1080p and 60fps for a particular game. Or just give us multiple options. It probably doesn't work that way but I would like that a lot.

Some people enjoy gaming on a console believe it or not! I bought an LG B6 last month in preparation for the Scorpio, it's not like I can't afford a PC

I'm planning on getting the C6 myself, but could end up getting the B6 instead,depending on price. First I need to sell my 1080p OLED though.

 

[wesleyshark]

http://neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=207095679&postcount=3288

The Internet doesn't forget.

🕵️🕵️

 

[Orca]

There will be no cpu.

Cpu less future

The inverse of the PS3 plans, the GPU will be so strong it also handles CPU chores!

 

[SenjutsuSage]

My view is Microsoft are in a perfect position with Scorpio. Because I feel it's their plan to make it the new baseline for all Xbox games even when the next Xbox comes out, this is why they won't stress if it doesn't sell gangbusters, cause it isn't required to do so in order to fulfill their ultimate goal of getting a headstart on game development in preparation​ for the next major step in games development that will arrive with consoles after scorpio.

I just don't see Sony doing the same with PS4 pro. I don't see them keeping PS4 pro as a baseline for all Sony development even when ps5 comes like I see Microsoft doing with Scorpio.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

I find that it is the people on this site and such that care whether or not it's called a new generation or not, not MS.

Other than that, I think you are exactly right. Each new hardware upgrade will come with back compat, and the previous ones will have forward compat with a cutoff point. There will probably always be two consoles in circulation with a 3-4 year long span between each time a new one comes and the old one is removed from the shelves.

That means you may get games for a console for 6-8 years if you'd like, which I think is plenty. Most people I know of were pretty hungry for a new gen at the end of the 360/PS3 era. If MS is able to pull this off (God willing), they will have a much mre stable customer base, which again will allow them to put more funding into the Xbox brand, more games and such.

I think a clear generation just makes it easier for some people to know what they are getting. Not everyone cared for the PS4 Pro / 4k and the same will happen with Scorpio too. Some people just don't like change from what they are used too I guess.

Yeah I think 6-8 years is good if we have 2 consoles on the go at the same time and the forward / backwards compatibility is the one thing MS is really doing right. Hopefully Sony take this approach too because it's just better for all of us.

 

[2blackcats]

Do we have any of this from the horse's mouth?

In the last Phil Spencer interview on this (that I've seen), he talks about how 'generationless' means Xbox One and Scorpio will be compatible with each other, but beyond that he doesn't know right now.

There seems to be a common assumption that Scorpio will be the baseline spec for the next cycle of Xbox software - and that may turn out to be true - but as far as I can see MS is keeping their options open in terms of what boxes will play what software. Seems to me it's still possible the next cycle could start with another future box as the baseline instead of Scorpio, if it isn't up to scratch by the time that next cycle needs to start (and, e.g., perhaps in particular if Jaguar or a close variant is involved in Scorpio).

We'll know as soon as the specs are out.

If it's a modest enough bump on the cpu front it's an upgraded xbone.

If it's a reasonably significant jump then it's the baseline for the successer xbox.

It will need to be able to ports of multiplatform games that will also release on PS5.

 

[JaffeLion]

http://neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=207095679&postcount=3288

The Internet doesn't forget.

lets see if he is right on thursday.

 

[soundscream]

For that money you can get a PC that will destroy a Scorpio and will play all its exclusives. Why wait?

But your PC will be held back by having to play XB1 games. Why even bother since it will be gimped from day one.

 

[IncognitoPanda]

I think a clear generation just makes it easier for some people to know what they are getting. Not everyone cared for the PS4 Pro / 4k and the same will happen with Scorpio too and some people just don't like change from what they are used too I guess.

Yeah I think 6-8 years is good if we have 2 consoles on the go at the same time and the forward / backwards compatibility is the one thing MS is really doing right. Hopefully Sony take this approach too because it's just better for all of us.

Agreed. But this is where some OC experience would come in handy. New gen or not, the fact that it's upgraded hardware is all that really matters as long as you have back compat.

 

[Dehnus]

Ms does not order Ryzen CPUs from AMD
They don't even order SOCs from AMD
They pay royalties for the AMD IP they use for their Xbox SOCs. They pay for the development and the design of the chips. They buy the SOC from the Semiconductor Foundry

That is the reason, why the price per unit for Zen vs Jaguar on the actual SOC is not really a substantial difference for MS at all. Difference is maybe $1 or $2 per SOC. Definitely below $5
Apple is paying Imagination Technologies ~30 cents per SOC to user their GPU IP

No shit Sherlock?

They order the design and then have a foundry print it on wavers. Or co design it even with AMD, to describe it more realistic. The thing is, I wanted to point out that 300 bucks is not the price MS will be paying per CPU, they will pay royalties to AMD plus cost of waver. It certainly won't be the same price as you pay for a Ryzen chip.

And again, I do not think they'll be using Ryzen, I'd applaud it if they do (That would heat up the competition a bit between them and Sony, which is always good ), but I think they'll cheap out at some Jaguar cores running at the same speed as the PS4Pro. MS are kings in cheaping out on things and fucking themselves over .

I just wanted to show him why that price was not the same as the price he pays. MS can use almost the entire waver due to having them at a far lower clock than 3GHZ. Clockrate matters in the case "wether a chip" makes it or not from the waver. Heck if they go for a 4 core with SMT? They can add 2 more cores for this same reason. If only 4 out of the 6 work, they can use it.

But yes I totally expect MS to cheap out again.They always cheap out on something LOL .

 

[SenjutsuSage]

lets see if he is right on thursday.

I stand by that statement as much now, even more, than I did back then. So we will indeed see.

I spoke to decidedly not inconsequential people at Xbox during E3 2016 who gave me the very strong impression (and I asked numerous times outright) that Scorpio may very well be packing a Zen CPU.

So, yea, I stand by that.

 

[Zedox]

What a strange post. It seems like you are baiting for the stupidity.

Baiting? Not really. I'm just going off of what has been happening here for the past couple of years. It's called anticipation. I see some really stupid things being said in my opinion. I normally don't comment on it unless there's a response to me, I otherwise laugh at it and don't say anything in the thread.

 

[leeh]

No shit Sherlock?

They order the design and then have a foundry print it on wavers. Or co design it even with AMD, to describe it more realistic. The thing is, I wanted to point out that 300 bucks is not the price MS will be paying per CPU, they will pay royalties to AMD plus cost of waver. It certainly won't be the same price as you pay for a Ryzen chip.

And again, I do not think they'll be using Ryzen, I'd applaud it if they do (That would heat up the competition a bit between them and Sony, which is always good ), but I think they'll cheap out at some Jaguar cores running at the same speed as the PS4Pro. MS are kings in cheaping out on things and fucking themselves over .

I just wanted to show him why that price was not the same as the price he pays. MS can use almost the entire waver due to having them at a far lower clock than 3GHZ. Clockrate matters in the case "wether a chip" makes it or not from the waver. Heck if they go for a 4 core with SMT? They can add 2 more cores for this same reason. If only 4 out of the 6 work, they can use it.

But yes I totally expect MS to cheap out again.They always cheap out on something LOL .

You just got solid information for why they're not that different price wise, and then said they'd be cheaping out...

 

[Thats a Greay Area]

No shit Sherlock?

They order the design and then have a foundry print it on wavers. Or co design it even with AMD, to describe it more realistic. The thing is, I wanted to point out that 300 bucks is not the price MS will be paying per CPU, they will pay royalties to AMD plus cost of waver. It certainly won't be the same price as you pay for a Ryzen chip.

And again, I do not think they'll be using Ryzen, I'd applaud it if they do (That would heat up the competition a bit between them and Sony, which is always good ), but I think they'll cheap out at some Jaguar cores running at the same speed as the PS4Pro. MS are kings in cheaping out on things and fucking themselves over .

I just wanted to show him why that price was not the same as the price he pays. MS can use almost the entire waver due to having them at a far lower clock than 3GHZ. Clockrate matters in the case "wether a chip" makes it or not from the waver. Heck if they go for a 4 core with SMT? They can add 2 more cores for this same reason. If only 4 out of the 6 work, they can use it.

But yes I totally expect MS to cheap out again.They always cheap out on something LOL .

What console have they ever "cheaped out" on?

 

[KORNdoggy]

I think a clear generation just makes it easier for some people to know what they are getting.

this is definitely true. and it's a better system imo. with incremental console updates we fall into a world of incremental visual updates too. it's like seeing a picture of yourself from 6 years ago compared to looking at your self every day in the mirror for 6 years. the perceived jump is far less and i don't want that. i don't want tomb raider 2025 to release and my first impression being...oh, it just looks like tomb raider 2022 only it's running in 8k instead of 4k. i want to see big, noticeable differences, but without a real, legit new gen, i don't think we ever will.

 

[KageMaru]

I'm pretty sure they've said as much. I think their gpu choice will tell us where their head is at. Jaguar = hedging their bets, possibly backing off from 2016 no more generations talk. Better than jaguar = gen less future.

The biggest thing I got out of the "end of generations" comment is that all future consoles will play past games from the 360 on.

While there are ways they can move beyond a typical generational cycle, it would be a huge marketing mistake for them to ignore generations entirely. They are going to have something to compete with the PS5 and they'll need to sell it as a "next gen" console to do that.

 

[Zedox]

The only thing that Scorpio can thoroughly make me go like "why the fuck would you do that?" is not having a USB-C port.

 

[quest]

No shit Sherlock?

They order the design and then have a foundry print it on wavers. Or co design it even with AMD, to describe it more realistic. The thing is, I wanted to point out that 300 bucks is not the price MS will be paying per CPU, they will pay royalties to AMD plus cost of waver. It certainly won't be the same price as you pay for a Ryzen chip.

And again, I do not think they'll be using Ryzen, I'd applaud it if they do (That would heat up the competition a bit between them and Sony, which is always good ), but I think they'll cheap out at some Jaguar cores running at the same speed as the PS4Pro. MS are kings in cheaping out on things and fucking themselves over .

I just wanted to show him why that price was not the same as the price he pays. MS can use almost the entire waver due to having them at a far lower clock than 3GHZ. Clockrate matters in the case "wether a chip" makes it or not from the waver. Heck if they go for a 4 core with SMT? They can add 2 more cores for this same reason. If only 4 out of the 6 work, they can use it.

But yes I totally expect MS to cheap out again.They always cheap out on something LOL .

Completely agree the cost would be about the extra silicone. I do believe MS wanted a Zen but amd could not deliver for this fall. Any Zen would not be the desktop version for sale now. It would be a custom job with the caches being reduced by a lot to save die space. Basically a modified ravens Ridge.

 

[MosquitoSmasher]

Back in 2013, did MS tweet or said anything before that DF article got posted up? Just seems so odd they aren't saying a damn thing about it. Just confirmation at this point would be nice.

 

[Consequence]

The only thing that Scorpio can thoroughly make me go like "why the fuck would you do that?" is not having a USB-C port.

Really? It wouldn't surprise me if they leave it out.

 

[PaNaMa]

What console have they ever "cheaped out" on?

Xbox 1 cheaped out on the GPU in favour of shipping a kinect in every box. It's equal parts "cheaping out" and poor understanding of what your core audience really wanted from the console. MS lost significant market tshare to Sony that it may never recover. Virtually every single game looks (resolution) and performs (framerate) better on PS4. Because of one poor decision.

I hope they don't go Jaguar with Scorpio. I want to buy one. Would like to see MS gets some of its mojo back.