Swift_Star
Banned
He really destroyed his own argument with that. Who are they trying to convince?Yeap...
"I can't really blame them for driving a higher margin model. That's HOW you make money. I get it."
He really destroyed his own argument with that. Who are they trying to convince?Yeap...
"I can't really blame them for driving a higher margin model. That's HOW you make money. I get it."
Wtf is this nonsense so all the high quality rated games that won them publisher of the year last year not high quality? Because you deem it so? Fanboy logic is so stupid .MS is well behind Sony in sales. They are spending cash to stack gamepass to win customers for the long term. Sony is ahead and don't feel that they have to compete directly with gamepass in the same way and don't want to lose revenue. Both are 'greedily' going after market share based on a strategy. The comment is specifically about how switching to an MS model would reduce their revenue and that would mean they would have less cash to put back into games to make them successful products, not that MS cannot be successful and still produce high quality AAA games. It really depends on the numbers. 10 bucks a month is a lot of money if you get that from a majority of users consistently. However it is also a lot of money if you get it from some in addition to the full 70 bucks for any first party game. They know how their customers buy games so they know that they would lose revenue today by putting games on the service day 1. Less revenue per product means you put less value into each product. In a few years, if MS wins significant market share, they might have to change. But for today they just want you to buy their 70 dollar games and 70/75 dollar controllers with shitty battery life.
Yeap he agree with my points.He really destroyed his own argument with that. Who are they trying to convince?
I did read it. I do believe that a low margin high scale model also works if you get it right; 30% margin that Apple is good but its not crazy; (just reminds how much i hate Google and it's ads business)Yeap... did you read everything?
"I can't really blame them for driving a higher margin model. That's HOW you make money. I get it."
On storytelling and based on quantity, I agree.
But for now. Once The Elder Scrolls VI, Starfield, Avowed, Fables, etc. joined the already great games with awesome stories like Halo, Wasteland, Psychonauts 2 the reality will be different.
So what are the big blockbuster games?A subscription releasing outstanding games, since 2018. Supposedly that its not feasible.
Unless you actually believe that the only AAA games on GP are Halo and Forza. If thats the case then you dont know what is GP at all.
That's what I'm saying... he agrees with you.The opposite.
He agree with my points.
Day one sales that were the "driving a higher margin model" is how you make money.
He just didn't say it is where you cover your high costs and get the money faster allowing to invest in new projects with even bigger budget.
BTW he not enter in that part of how the investment based in the model happens... that was what I talking about.
You logic is flawed because you're using NPD as referenceHe's right. You look at Forza and Halo's engagement numbers and they are around 20 million each, and yet neither game finished above top 20 in NPD. Forza was literally ranked 20th and Halo was nowhere to be found after charting 2nd in December.
Meanwhile Miles was ranked 6th in its SECOND year on the market. Mario Kark ranked 7th in its 7th year on the market. MS can eat that loss of sales because their main business is services and they make billions in profits every month from other products. Sony cant. Sony only makes money from their insurance business, and playstation. Everything else loses money or breaks even other than maybe cameras. They rely on Horizon, GT7 and GOW selling $300-500 million worth of copies in the first year each. Thats a billion to $1.5 billion in lost revenue.
This whole subscription nonsense is making people think services are more important than games. No, games ARE the product. You dont go to a Michelin Star resturnat for their service. You go there for their food. The food is the product. The Chef is the product. No one gives a shit about the waiters or bus boys. Sony studios are becoming very unproductive taking 5 fucking years to make last gen games. They cant afford to give them away for $10 a month. If a studio costs $20 million per year to run that's $100 million for one game. The marketing costs are typically the same as production costs so we are looking at $200 million products. They cannot survive in a streaming model.
What might end up happening is what we are seeing on Disney. Especially the Marvel stuff. 6 episode long seasons. 30 minute episodes. I grew up watching 24 episodes a season. At least HBO has 10-12 hour long episodes. WTF is this half an hour 6 episode bullshit. How would this work in gaming? DLCs every year instead of full games? Episodic trash? MS had to go buy COD and Bethesda for literally $80 billion just to fill their empty months on gamepass. Sony doesnt have that kind of money.
I am glad Sony is treating this shit like an afterthought. Focus should be on making games, not services.
When I see the big blockbuster games I'll believe it. Starfield will be a huge get for gamepass (can't say I don't want this one as I really do.) But Microsoft is using its money right now to build a service. But it's not gonna happen long term. When I see the big games I'll believe it. Until the ... no chance.Could you explain in detail why it isn't feasible and not going to happen? Do you think the development cost of games for Sony is much higher than the development cost of Xbox Game Studios? Starfield alone was probably more expensive than any Uncharted game. So if Microsoft believes the business model works when they release games like that on Game Pass, then why wouldn't it be sustainable for Sony to do the same?
The own OP is the evidence lol
It works... I never said it didn't at all.I did read it. I do believe that a low margin high scale model also works if you get it right; 30% margin that Apple is good but its not crazy; (just reminds how much i hate Google and it's ads business)
I think it's because Phil speaks like a used car salesman or corporate lawyer, Jim just speaks like everyone's drunk uncle.and yet when Phil speaks nobody believes him. funny how people believe the side they choose no problem. that works both ways to
Phil never said anything about that.and yet when Phil speaks nobody believes him. funny how people believe the side they choose no problem. that works both ways to
My bad sorry.That's what I'm saying... he agrees with you.
Until now Sony consistently getting more and bigger exclusive hits (both in sales and reviews or GOTYs) than Xbox during many years and generations.That may well be true.
The problem Sony may have (note that I am using the word ‘may’) is that in three years time, MS could be pumping out equally polished titles on Gamepass. It would only take one or two absolute hits, to make Sony’s position harder to justify.
I’ll obviously stick with PlayStation as that’s where my friends play and I am invested in their system. But this is about kids who are 11 to 15 now. What system will they want in a few years time?
And I’ll say it again. The £70 price tag for first party can piss right off.
Phil never said anything about that.
He said an obtuse "Gamepass is sustainable right now" that was not even a answer to what he was asked
Nope.so you believe everything Jim Ryan says?
He's not saying that the business model doesn't work, he's saying that the output of Microsoft Game Studios won't be as good as those of Playstation since they release it day one on Game Pass. At least that's how I read it.Saying someone else's business model doesn't work for your business isn't taking a jab at anyone.
He's not saying that the business model doesn't work, he's saying that the output of Microsoft Game Studios won't be as good as those of Playstation since they release it day one on Game Pass. At least that's how I read it.
It is a thread and he start saying fans has no ideia... to in the 4th thread say Ryan is right and that he understand why that model (no day on subscriptions) is what made money agreeing with what we said here.Is this tweet supposed to be authoritative?
It wasn't to me, its just me highlighting the fact that there are different takes on this topic about whether PS can or can't put out games Day & Date. I think it's all maths that we don't have.Not how I read it. He said this isn't the road they have gone down in the past and it breaks their business cycle. He also says this may change in the future, but this is strictly in reference to Sony's business model:
"Ryan was also keen to point out that nothing about the new service is set in stone. “All I’m talking to today is the approach we’re taking in the short term. The way our publishing model works right now, it doesn’t make any sense. But things can change very quickly in this industry, as we all know.”"
Is this tweet supposed to be authoritative?
It wasn't to me, its just me highlighting the fact that there are different takes on this topic about whether PS can or can't put out games Day & Date. I think it's all maths that we don't have.
Post in thread 'Jim Ryan says Sony’s games ‘could suffer’ by adding them to PlayStation Plus on day one (VCG)' https://www.neogaf.com/threads/jim-...on-plus-on-day-one-vcg.1633644/post-265910814
He is saying fans or consumers are ill-informed because they are ignoring the fact that margins can change if Sony wants it to or that Sony could have tried with a higher monthly price. Those are variables that Sony decided to fix in their analysis.Jim Ryan has said in Sony's current publishing model development would suffer under "day and date". Is he ill-informed? Maybe I'm misunderstanding his angle here.
He is saying fans or consumers are ill-informed because they are ignoring the fact that margins can change if Sony wants it to or that Sony could have tried with a higher monthly price. Those are variables that Sony decided to fix in their analysis.
We are not talking about narrative games, like people call it.They do and done lots of different genres, some fail yet they keep trying.
It is your perception because of fanboy wars that keep the old “narrative driven games”
You got to understand that when “the formula” like you said, was created in a time where EA and other companies said single player games are dead! They were betting really hard on MP
Sony did the opposite, they keep making good single player games until some of their games got a lot of success.
If having a studio like guerrilla go from shooters to a new IP and different genre is not being brave then I have no clue what brave it is.
Since you talked about perception of studios. forza keeps being forza, halo keeps being halo, and so on. Yeah different genres but using a formula!
No. What are they? There's got to be what.... 4-6. What are they? I have Forza and Halo.
You are assuming those games will be great, I'm talking about games that were already released. I personally don't have much faith in Elder Scrolls 6 or Starfield after what we saw with Fallout 76.
Fables I can't say I'm throwing for either. Fable 1 and 3 were fun games but nothing amazing. Asking a car based studio to make an RPG is a big ask but I guess Guerilla did transition from FPS to open world adventure/RPG pretty darn well. It's a wait and see scenario ATM for Fables.
Unfortunately Microsoft's studios have done nothing in the past 5+ years to get me excited about their single payer games.
No. What are they? There's got to be what.... 4-6. What are they? I have Forza and Halo.
It really isn't that hard to grasp, yet people are reaching for the wrong straws. Cause... war.Again, he isn't an authority in the matter so he can call anyone he wants "ill-informed" as twitter folk tend to do. Like you said, we don't have the data so we are all "ill-informed" in that respect.
There's none. And Google isn't free.
Big AAA games require several hundreds of millions of dollars to be made. They have over two dozen games under development plus deals with 3rd party exclusives and other deals and this requires a lot of money (plus many other costs like marketing or servers), mostly coming from their own revenue.There is no academic evidence to prove this.
If you have, please share.
We are all missing the data needed to completely answer this question including Jim Ryan and the Sony financial team. They don't know the potential user growth from introducing day and date services, they will have a good guess but they won't know it for sure.Again, he isn't an authority in the matter so he can call anyone he wants "ill-informed" as twitter folk tend to do. Like you said, we don't have the data so we are all "ill-informed" in that respect.
We are all missing the data needed to completely answer this question including Jim Ryan and the Sony financial team. They don't know the potential user growth from introducing day and date services, they will have a good guess but they won't know it for sure.
Also you don't have to be authority to highlight the fact that others are missing data.
There's none. And Google isn't free.
MS None Simulator - 90 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-series-x/microsoft-flight-simulator
Psychonones 2 - 89 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/psychonauts-2
Forza Horizonones 5 - 92 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-series-x/forza-horizon-5
None Infinite - 87 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-series-x/halo-infinite
Noneland 3 - 85 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wasteland-3
Gears Of None 5 - 84 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/gears-5
Forza Nonersports 7 - 86 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/forza-motorsport-7
"none"
Gears Of None is actually a great title for a game lol.
None of those are even close to huge blockbuster games. Spiderman? Tlou 2? God of war?MS None Simulator - 90 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-series-x/microsoft-flight-simulator
Psychonones 2 - 89 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/psychonauts-2
Forza Horizonones 5 - 92 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-series-x/forza-horizon-5
None Infinite - 87 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-series-x/halo-infinite
Noneland 3 - 85 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wasteland-3
Gears Of None 5 - 84 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/gears-5
Forza Nonersports 7 - 86 - https://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/forza-motorsport-7
None of those are even close to huge blockbuster games. Spiderman? Tlou 2? God of war?
We discussed halo and forza. So where are all the games??
That's not what Deborah told me.Edmárcio Thomaz Henrique Pinheiro dos Santos.
Santos Pinheiro are are surnames not names.
Are you crazy? You made no sense… what my name has to do with your weird comments?
You want ALL Sony games to follow the same model as GT7? Really?Devs making a change, listening to feedback and acting accordingly. How scary.
You should have put a trademark tm at the end of this sentence. Lol, generates more revenue than any console platform holder ever ganerated in gaming history and being profitable.
When did I say that?You want ALL Sony games to follow the same model as GT7? Really?