GymWolf
Gold Member
How do you know i'm an atheist?
I'm ready to eat all the crows if starfield comes out and it's a proper challenger for best graphic of 2023.
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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
I'm ready to eat all the crows if starfield comes out and it's a proper challenger for best graphic of 2023.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
oh god. We've lost him.
nvm. he agrees with me.
glad to hear shooting mechanics and AI are their strong suit, but i couldnt stomach shooting human beings in the head for 5-10 seconds to kill them. But i understand thats just part of GaaS game designs so hoping its not a thing in Avatar.
arkhamguy123
Member
Because I am too and I can always detect another heh hehHow do you know i'm an atheist?
I'm ready to eat all the crows if starfield comes out and it's a proper challenger for best graphic of 2023.
And get them crows ready boy. Get your sauce of choice and eating utensils while you’re at it too
GymWolf
Gold Member
I never, ever skipped story cutscenes and dialogues in games, division was the first one where i did that, it was beyond terrible.
But the second one probably has the best ia for a tps in the last 5 years and the shooting is very nice.
Not sure how this is gonna traduce in this game tho, guerrilla had some of the best gunplay ever in kz2 and human combat in horizon is dreadful with probably the worst bow and arrow hit reactions\ragdoll i ever saw in my life.
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Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
I need the cocaine you guys are on.
Everytime M Musilla posts a Burning Shores it just shows how mid avatar looks in comparison.
You look at the comparison gifs I posted and it’s night and day burning shores looks better.
Avatar gifs are all over the place in this damn thread. Some look awful. Some look great. Inconsistent as all hell. You can’t post a single bad looking burning shores gif because it doesn’t exist.
You think Spidey 2 looks like a next gen game. Your opinion is invalid
Schmendrick
Member
uh huh, we get a game like CP2077 to run with PT but an Ubi open world with slightly above average lighting is too much....riiight.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's because of this:
They are working on too many games. They wasted 3 years after shipping Spiderman on a 7 hour DLC campaign for Miles and a decent but short 10 hour Ratchet game. Then they had the Miles team split off to work on Wolverine instead of realizing they are far behind on tech and need all hands on deck.
Meanwhile, Bethesda also shipped a game in 2018. Realized it was complete trash, and spent the next five years upgrading their aging tech and hiring new artists expanding their team from 100 devs for Skyrim and FO4 to now 400 devs. The result is a gorgeous and ambitious game that feels like a generational leap over its predecessor. Both in terms of visuals and scope. Spiderman 2 feels neither because the studio that shipped spiderman as ONE united team has now split into 3 teams.
On one hand, i like this 2.5 year dev cycles and short 10-15 hour games. on the other hand, its coming at a cost. They are still charging $70 for these games that dont look next gen, dont feel next gen, and sadly dont even come close to being goty caliber. Ratchet lost to It Takes Two in a very weak year and didnt even come close to being in the top 3. If insomniac wants to settle for being a B-Tier studio then thats fine. They will sell millions, review well, but in this thread, they wont get my respect.
- It Takes Two - 86
- Media Outlets: 66 | Readers' Choice: 20
- Resident Evil Village - 60
- Media Outlets: 29 | Readers' Choice: 31
- Forza Horizon 5 - 54
- Media Outlets: 34 | Readers' Choice: 20
- Deathloop - 40
- Media Outlets: 34 | Readers' Choice: 6
- Metroid Dread - 36
- Media Outlets: 29 | Readers' Choice: 7
- Halo Infinite - 26
- Media Outlets: 20 | Readers' Choice: 6
- Returnal - 22
- Media Outlets: 19 | Readers' Choice: 3
- Psychonauts 2 - 19
- Media Outlets: 18 | Readers' Choice: 1
- Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart - 19
- Media Outlets: 18 | Readers' Choice: 1
GymWolf
Gold Member
Lol tell me about it, i just had a fight about that.
Yeah, let's spread our medium sized team into 3 projects, why the hell not...
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Insomniac merda
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arkhamguy123
Member
Sefton Hill: We're a one team studio, we really don't believe in separate teams because thats not how you get the best games, the best games are made from everyone focused on one project
Insomniac: SPIDERMAN 2! WOLVERINE! MULTIPLAYER GAME!
Ya know looking at city to knights jump then SP1 to SP2 jump explains a lot now
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
What? I have posted plenty of screenshots of HFW in this very thread. See below. HFW has a lot of limitations namely with draw distance, texture quality, interior lighting, foliage density, and some very last gen asset quality. Every single gif of Avatar shows these improvements. What you are doing is cherry picking that one section from the factory mission that is designed to look bad since it has pollution creating a thick smog while ignoring 90% of the rest of the two trailers. Over 10 minutes of footage across and you are focused on one outpost section.
Here is the ubisoft page on giphy. Over 30 gifs from both trailers. Dozens of different areas.
Avatar Frontiers Of Pandora GIFs - Find & Share on GIPHY
GIPHY is the platform that animates your world. Find the GIFs, Clips, and Stickers that make your conversations more positive, more expressive, and more you.
giphy.com
Here are 10 gifs i compiled myself. all different areas. All feature great draw distances, not masked by shitty fog or poor LODs on distant trees or repeated assets on the ground. Just hit next on the side to view the remaining gifs. If you cant see just how Horizon masks its shortcomings while Avatar doesnt have to then i cant help you.
GymWolf
Gold Member
You mean origins to knight, origins was the third game in the saga.
(although it was made by a different studio)
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Uneven rock textures are gonna be my death this gen.
arkhamguy123
Member
No I mean what I said
Rocksteady made city, the next game they made for next gen only was a ginormous leap
Masterofchapter
Member
Ghost of tsuima is worst Sony downgraded game too and for avatar wait for pc gameplay and avatar looks way better than horizon forbidden west
If you think this
looks "a gen ahead"
of this
Then I dont know what to tell you, Avatar objectively looks worse and is coming out 2 years after Burning Shores.
Killzone was on the same level as Anthem, and Rainbow 6 as the biggest downgrades ever.
But looking back... they were simply CG trailers. We were just fucking stupid. CG trailers happen all the time.
Ubisoft will fake their actual game.... As in make non- CG trailers (Watch Dogs, Rainbow 6, Far Cry) and sell you a huge lie. They'll make a whole ass real time demo to pretend thats how the game looks, then the game drops and looks a whole gen worse. Give me the CG trailer instead.
Look man.
Heres what they sold us:
Heres what we get
Look at the goddamn foliage downgrade. Look at the goddamn lighting downgrade. The dust. Its a brand new game. The Ubisoft special.
I dont know why or how you people have so much faith in UBISOFT lol.
They may have gotten better over the past 2 years, but the damage has been done. I simply dont trust them until the game is out. I dont know how anyone does.
Yes Sony does the same shit but their games in the end still hold up amongst the best of the best graphics wise. No one here can deny the quality output of Sony 1st Party games the past decade or so. Same cannot be said for Ubisoft. Their quality output is all over the fucking galaxy.
And the thing with TLOU 2 is yeah it got downgraded, but the final product was still easily the best looking game of the gen. Thats exactly what im talking about.
arkhamguy123
Member
What? I have posted plenty of screenshots of HFW in this very thread. See below. HFW has a lot of limitations namely with draw distance, texture quality, interior lighting, foliage density, and some very last gen asset quality. Every single gif of Avatar shows these improvements. What you are doing is cherry picking that one section from the factory mission that is designed to look bad since it has pollution creating a thick smog while ignoring 90% of the rest of the two trailers. Over 10 minutes of footage across and you are focused on one outpost section.
Here is the ubisoft page on giphy. Over 30 gifs from both trailers. Dozens of different areas.
Avatar Frontiers Of Pandora GIFs - Find & Share on GIPHY
GIPHY is the platform that animates your world. Find the GIFs, Clips, and Stickers that make your conversations more positive, more expressive, and more you.
Here are 10 gifs i compiled myself. all different areas. All feature great draw distances, not masked by shitty fog or poor LODs on distant trees or repeated assets on the ground. Just hit next on the side to view the remaining gifs. If you cant see just how Horizon masks its shortcomings while Avatar doesnt have to then i cant help you.
How on gods green earth do people not see this for the cross gen software that it is.
It gets thrashed by the upcoming big 4
The lighting in avatar does look much more natural than in Horizon. The latter looks garish in comparison.If you think this
looks "a gen ahead"
of this
Then I dont know what to tell you, Avatar objectively looks worse and is coming out 2 years after Burning Shores.
Killzone was on the same level as Anthem, and Rainbow 6 as the biggest downgrades ever.
But looking back... they were simply CG trailers. We were just fucking stupid. CG trailers happen all the time.
Ubisoft will fake their actual game.... As in make non- CG trailers (Watch Dogs, Rainbow 6, Far Cry) and sell you a huge lie. They'll make a whole ass real time demo to pretend thats how the game looks, then the game drops and looks a whole gen worse. Give me the CG trailer instead.
Look man.
Heres what they sold us:
Heres what we get
Look at the goddamn foliage downgrade. Look at the goddamn lighting downgrade. The dust. Its a brand new game. The Ubisoft special.
I dont know why or how you people have so much faith in UBISOFT lol.
They may have gotten better over the past 2 years, but the damage has been done. I simply dont trust them until the game is out. I dont know how anyone does.
Yes Sony does the same shit but their games in the end still hold up amongst the best of the best graphics wise. No one here can deny the quality output of Sony 1st Party games the past decade or so. Same cannot be said for Ubisoft. Their quality output is all over the fucking galaxy.
And the thing with TLOU 2 is yeah it got downgraded, but the final product was still easily the best looking game of the gen. Thats exactly what im talking about.
H . R . 2
Member
you are right about the limitations of HFW
you are also right about the advantages Avatar has over HFW
you are definitely right about the merits of HFW over Avatar
but you're not right about one thing. one of them has actually been released while the other has thus far been nothing more than a couple of trailers akin to how WD and The Division were announced
one of them is a 'released' 'cross-gen' game with superb visuals and the other, being a Ubisoft game in development, has yet to prove its worth and is likely to get downgraded [and it already has]
almost all Ubisoft games have experienced huge visual and gameplay downgrades over the course of their development and Avatar will probably not be an exception.
the game is a looker but even its initial [cg] reveal was not , IMHO, impressive, let alone what we have been shown recently.
I am not blind to the factors you mentioned above but a game came out last year that did 80 percent of that, if not a hundred percent.
I have nothing against Avatar and Massive. they are a match made in heaven. but I do not trust Ubisoft
IMO it doesn't really matter which game looks better. both HFW and Avatar, despite their great visuals, have failed to show us the next-gen vision that the Matrix Demo did
so unless we are graphics whores dissecting visuals to learn more about engines and photorealism, these comparisons are irrelevant and pedantic
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Robbinhood
Banned
Complains about cherry picked screens...posts cherry picked screens.
I've taken way better HFW/Burning Shores pics than those Slimy snake shots.
I've taken way better HFW/Burning Shores pics than those Slimy snake shots.
Schmendrick
Member
And that AA example from a studio with that track record is a hardware issue and totally not a software issue.... When we have stuff like CP, the Portal remix and even the matrix demo...
You're trying too hard, the troll is shining through
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I don't understand how people can look at a game with infinite draw distance like Avatar and say a game with steven wonders draw distance looks better.
Like we a comparing a game with Real-Time Dynamic Global Illumination and Reflection with a game that's interpolating between 12 baked lights and screen space reflection.
Is this real life?
There were people who were saying (you know who you are) Spiderman 2 would have to look like The Amazing Spiderman 2 Times Square Scene to be next gen (which is an insane expectation). Then it comes out and is not even 1% there and they are still crowning it as "next gen".
I bet the same people who saw this tweet from Nvidia and said PS6 & Next Xbox games will look like that and usher in Path Tracing. When the inevitable Spiderman 4 comes out and looks nothing like that cause Insomniac is clearly not up to it, they will still say "S4 is next gen and beyond what I expected or dreamed".
The level of historical revision is amazing Just don't say this is what PS6 first party games is gonna look like, then you don't have to backtrack.
Like we a comparing a game with Real-Time Dynamic Global Illumination and Reflection with a game that's interpolating between 12 baked lights and screen space reflection.
Is this real life?
There were people who were saying (you know who you are) Spiderman 2 would have to look like The Amazing Spiderman 2 Times Square Scene to be next gen (which is an insane expectation). Then it comes out and is not even 1% there and they are still crowning it as "next gen".
I bet the same people who saw this tweet from Nvidia and said PS6 & Next Xbox games will look like that and usher in Path Tracing. When the inevitable Spiderman 4 comes out and looks nothing like that cause Insomniac is clearly not up to it, they will still say "S4 is next gen and beyond what I expected or dreamed".
The level of historical revision is amazing Just don't say this is what PS6 first party games is gonna look like, then you don't have to backtrack.
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arkhamguy123
Member
uhhhh yeah? Where is the controversy?This thread's logic:
WOW, SO NEXT GEN!
MEH, PS4 GAME:
Keep it up, goofballs! It's hilarious!
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think the game has already received its WD and Division downgrade. WD and Division were both revealed 2 years before launch, just like Avatar, and by their second E3 had already seen downgrades. What you are seeing here is basically equivalent to the post downgraded WD and Division trailers which were pretty much what they shipped with.
There is always a possibility with further downgrades, but at this point, it will cost them more to downgrade these baked in features like RTGI, RT Reflections and RT Shadows than to simply lower the resolution from 1440p internal to 1080p or 1296p like starfield and spiderman 2. They are using FSR2 to upscale so we wouldnt even notice it.
Again, ive conceded that Star Wars outlaws has a potential to receive a massive downgrade, but its too late to downgrade anything in Starfield, Avatar, Spiderman 2, Mortal Kombat, AC Mirage and any of the holiday 2023 games set to release this year. Ubisoft has had a history of downgrades but they have also had a history of NOT downgrading any games they have shown 6 months before release. You can look at Far Cry 6, AC Valhalla, Watch Dogs Legion and Division 2.
And even if it gets downgraded, the draw distance, the density of foliage, and the animal simulations will still mostly be there, and a big upgrade over HFW. Whether or not its as good as the Matrix doesnt really matter to me. It looks good enough for a first gen third party ubisoft game. I suspect the sequel will look even better.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
DuduIsDisappointed
Banned
Documents were submited for analysis with pro and cons evidencies.
We can now rule out Avatar as the game with the upcoming "nextgen graphics" and put on cross gen level category.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol
but yes, the draw distance in Avatar fixes my main gripe with HFW.
It's good to finally see the actual horizon. no pun intended.
.
Must of not played DS1 in a while he looks the same in it.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
H . R . 2
Member
I admire your optimism and I have every confidence that Massive is capable of delivering on the visuals front. but again I have my misgivings about Ubisoft.
I believe Ubisoft might downgrade the game even further. here's why:
a] I am almost certain Avatar started out as a last-gen title back in late 2017 and it really is a last-gen title at its core. the stiff animations and the outdated character models are some of the warning signs. I believe Massive is bearing the burden of Ubisoft's mismanagement and indecision by trying to deliver at least better visuals to win back the fans.
b] Covid hit Ubisoft hard and they haven't had proper AAA releases as of late and as such Ubisoft is now in a precarious market situation post-covid and especially after the scandals in recent years. they have been taking zero risks with their visuals recently, not since Unity's flop, which was chalked up to its engine and taxing visuals. almost all the games that followed got downgraded MASSIVELY to ensure more stable launches. with Skull and Bones still in shambles and most likely to fail, and AC Mirage being a make-or-break title for the franchise, Ubisoft cannot afford to have another flop on their hands [that's why they have been canceling projects left and right]. so if they have to downgrade, you can be sure they will.
they just needed Massive to handle these two games because they were the only studio that could pull it off and attract the audience with such great visuals. They did the same with The Division but it was downgraded eventually. Massive is now handling 2 games at simultanesously!
c] it has always been extremely easier for Ubisoft to downgrade than invest in optimisation. far easier to scale back DD and foliage density last minute than risk postponing yet another title for the 100th time due to poor performance.
without Ubisoft's interference, I am sure Massive's current-gen games would be visually on par with the Division's reveal. They made World in Conflict, the Order 1886 of RTS games a game whose visuals and atmosphere have yet to be beaten by a similar game
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Your posting history is pretty hilarious. only 2 posts before you posted the Venom PR shot with an immediate dig at Avatar. Then pretty much an all out endorsement of Spiderman 2 across several different threads.
When the find out whose alt you are, I do hope they let us know because I have my suspicions.
DuduIsDisappointed
Banned
This explosion is almost pixalated.Yeah PS3 to PS4 cross-gen maybe
And to be fair, explosions on SM2 also look quite bad.
But this one here is almost pixalated.
Hardly any real gameply action scene (with bow and arrows and guns) from Avatar have impressed me.
Wether People admit such a thing as placeholders exist (like this fire/explosion) throughout the period between the different vídeos (wich makes you right all along), or we all admit Avatar wont look that good as some People want to believe.
DuduIsDisappointed
Banned
Believe it or not, before I ever logged on these boards, you are The one whom I hardly miss any post wich is a sign of respect and admiration.
You always sounded very knowladgeable to me.
The only problem is that you seem to be way less forgiving towards avatar while with sm2 is totally the opposite.
Xtib81
Member
Yep, I was slightly disappointed even though the faces in DS1 are among the best I've ever seen, so it's not that bad, especially if we compare them to other games (looking at you Ubi)
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rofif
Banned
I would comment on that ps2 explosion but my role is to merely declare if a game is "Next-Gen", as in PS5/XSX lookable.Yeah PS3 to PS4 cross-gen maybe
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Oh, I agree 100%! I'm just sarcastically applying their logic in hopes they'll see how asinine it truly is. Both Spider-Man and Avatar's showings are a reflective of their status as work in progress games, with Avatar being more apparent for obvious reasons.
What? I have posted plenty of screenshots of HFW in this very thread. See below. HFW has a lot of limitations namely with draw distance, texture quality, interior lighting, foliage density, and some very last gen asset quality. Every single gif of Avatar shows these improvements. What you are doing is cherry picking that one section from the factory mission that is designed to look bad since it has pollution creating a thick smog while ignoring 90% of the rest of the two trailers. Over 10 minutes of footage across and you are focused on one outpost section.
Here is the ubisoft page on giphy. Over 30 gifs from both trailers. Dozens of different areas.
Avatar Frontiers Of Pandora GIFs - Find & Share on GIPHY
GIPHY is the platform that animates your world. Find the GIFs, Clips, and Stickers that make your conversations more positive, more expressive, and more you.
Here are 10 gifs i compiled myself. all different areas. All feature great draw distances, not masked by shitty fog or poor LODs on distant trees or repeated assets on the ground. Just hit next on the side to view the remaining gifs. If you cant see just how Horizon masks its shortcomings while Avatar doesnt have to then i cant help you.
I cannot believe how people are not seeing how cartoonish HFW actually looks in comparison with Avatar. I always thought HFW looked nice but in tandem with Avatar it looks a bit cartoony and it’s weird people are not seeing that.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
H . R . 2
Member
it is
but it is by no means visually inferior, especially when you take its cross-gen limitations into account.
it is a game that came out a year ago and a current-gen only game like Avatar is naturally expected to take things up a notch visually and look better.
also, Avatar has aimed for a look closer to that of the movies and is therefore quite different in its style. HFW visuals are a stylistic choice. otherwise, you can see GG's strides towards photorealism in the lighting system, the realistic character models, and the game's world simulations
I think we should wait for GG's next, current-gen-only game before making comparisons with Avatar.
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Looking at SM2 I wouldn't hold my breath.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I dont think Avatar started out as a last gen title in late 2017 because they specifically listed these following things that could only be possible on next gen hardware. They need SSD for faster flying, for denser enviornments, and the CPU for destruction and NPC behavior. If anything, this is the reason why im not so worried about the downgrade because even if the visuals are downgraded, the core next gen-ness of the engine and its features will shine through.
Lets say they downgrade the last part. No more ray traced foliage. or RT shadows in the distant hills. as long as NPC animal destruction, faster flying speeds, reduced pop-in, and dense environments are still in, i will be happy. And probably why I am so forgiving to Avatar and Starfield. Avatar and Starfield are doing things that explain why there is a potential of downgrade. They had their hearts in the right place back in 2017 and chose to target next gen specs while GG and others just limited themselves to PS4. I admire the risks these third party devs took when first party devs did not. if they fail then so be it. Id rather they try and fail then simply punt the first few year of the gen with last gen games.
As myamoto once said, a flawed next gen game might still be ambitious. A cross gen game is last gen forever.
Why Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora Had to Be a Next-Gen Only Game - IGN
Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora will be Ubisoft's first new-gen-only game – we spoke to its developers to find out why it demands next-gen hardware to run.
That said, i will concede that there is a possibility of a downgrade and I will be very disappointed if they downgrade the PC version as well as the PS5 version since thats the version i will be buying.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Guerrila is not insomniac.
Prepare your brain for a sensorial ocasm.
because you know, it sound like orgasm
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