playsaves3
Member
I would want the pro delayed if it could improve the specs maybe releasing in 2025 could guarantee full rdna 4 and zen 5
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PS5 Pro devkits arrive at third-party studios, Sony expects Pro specs to leak
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
playsaves3
Member
And we should be willing to pay it bring on the first 700$ PlayStation the ps5 pro
Imtjnotu
Member
saintjules
Member
To be fair they said they aren't releasing major existing franchise titles until 2025. What's to say we don't get a few other big new games prior to the end of the year?
Mr.Phoenix
Member
A 4090 paired with a CPU thats over $350... does Cyberpunk, at 1440p path traced... at 39fps.
Thats a $3000 PC.... 39fps. And you expect some $600 console to do that?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That's a whole new console gen, not a Pro, no?
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
To be fair, he says it's the only thing that would convince him, not that he expects it.
playsaves3
Member
Won’t pcie gen 6 be out by then
playsaves3
Member
Those specs aren’t anywhere near good enough for a ps6 that thing will be using rdna 6 or even rdna 7 if it’s after 2028
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That is still overspec'ed for a mid gen refresh carrying the entry point pricing model.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Just get a fucking PC for fuck's sake.
playsaves3
Member
*possibly 700 console
playsaves3
Member
Is imagine the pc would need to be well over 1500 to outperform a 700 pro and it still wouldn’t support physical media
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Do you believe you could get 13900k @5.8Ghz + 32GB of RAM + 4090 levels of performance from a $700 console? Hell... even an $800 console made in 2025? If thats the case then there is something very wrong with how you view tech.
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playsaves3
Member
No of course not NVIDIA would be the biggest failure in pc history if that was the case but I do think for that price they could get maybe 70% of the way there
playsaves3
Member
Rdna 4 is overspecced for mid gen refresh we are hoping is around 2x the performance?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Coupled with Zen 5 it is. Remember, these would have been taped out a year ago or more.
SonGoku
Member
Thats not what im suggesting though
Im saying take the PS5 Pro APU and remove GPU bits, considering GPU architectures are modular they can remove (just for arguments sake) 2 shader engines and downclock to base PS5 speeds
What im proposing is for the PS5 slim to use the exact same GPU architecture as Pro (RDNA 3.5/4) GPU but smaller to recycle the R&D done on the 4nm APU design and run PS5 games in BC mode similarly to how the Pro would run non patched PS5 games.
The incentive would be cost reductions down the line and Sony being able to keep PS5 momentum another 4 years by dropping the price of the slim without taking losses
playsaves3
Member
You mean 4k 60-120
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
This thing has been sitting for awhile so yeah don't expect Zen 5 until next gen boxes, you are spot on
SonGoku
Member
I'm not so sure about RDNA 4 being out of the table, remember ever since Sony switched to AMD they used the latest and greatest GPU architecture available on the year of release on PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5. So they clearly have early access to the architecture to make these decisions. Though sure they might skip some features here and there that arent needed for the console just like Cerny implied they did for PS5 with RDNA2.
Zen 5 yeah... Judging by Cernys past comments i rather be pessimistic and assume Zen 2 and be pleasently surprised down the line with something like Zen 4. I remember him saying they did not upgrade the PS4 Pro GPU because it wasn't a new gen and made similar comments about things like CPU, SSD defining new gen hardware.
I would hope 4 years from now PS6 will use at least Zen 6, Zen 5 would be very outdated by then
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
No clue whats on tap for PS6I'm not so sure about RDNA 4 being out of the table, remember ever since Sony switched to AMD they used the latest and greatest GPU architecture available on the year of release on PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5. So they clearly have early access to the architecture to make these decisions. Though sure they might skip some features here and there that arent needed for the console just like Cerny implied they did for PS5 with RDNA2.
Zen 5 yeah... Judging by Cernys past comments i rather be pessimistic and assume Zen 2 and be pleasently surprised down the line with something like Zen 4. I remember him saying they did not upgrade the PS4 Pro GPU because it wasn't a new gen and made similar comments about things like CPU, SSD defining new gen hardware.
NoLootBoxDev
Member
I am starting to think the Pro does not exist and this thread was all about:
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Interfectum
Member
Where are the leaks? If the thing is out there how has it not leaked yet?
Perrott
Member
Nah, Colin Moriarty's sources have confirmed to him its real.
The last State of Play was leaked in its entirety like 5 days in advance, yet for some reason none of the people privately in the know about all that was coming leaked the PS Studios x Kojima Productions x Columbia Pictures collaboration for the action espionage new IP Physint from Hideo Kojima.
Perhaps no one in the know at the studios want to take the risk of having a PS5 Pro leak traced back to them.
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Interfectum
Member
Mr. Bloodborne 2 confirms it's real? Anyone else?
digoutyoursoul
Member
seeing what’s going on with Xbox I think I’ll get this once it’s confirmed/released and just use that and switch for my gaming.especially with the likes of GTA 6 on the horizon.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Well, damn, that settles it. Colin "Cerny" Moriarty has confirmed its existence.
Perrott
Member
Yeah, let's pretend that because he had one miss, suddenly all his other leaks that turned out to be true (The Quarry, the Tomb Raider and Star Wars Eclipse scripts, Red Dead Redemption remaster, etc) are invalid, as well as his undeniable and deep connections to the North American game development scene having been the editor-in-chief of PlayStation content at IGN for years.
For the record, a lot of people, some very reliable, also heard echoes of Bluepoint working on Bloodborne stuff at the time. It kinda feels to me like one of those Star Fox: Grand Prix type of situations that got rolling in the grapevine and spiraled out of control.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
I'm not expecting it in the slightest, I'm saying that in order for me to pick up a Pro it needs to be outputting visuals a proper level above what the PS5 can currently do and the only thing I've seen do that to date is Cyberpunk with RT Overdrive
Quantum253
Member
Daily thread checks for leak traction. I'm quite amazed this thread has gone on this long without the specs dropping somewhere and the thread going dark.I am starting to think the Pro does not exist and this thread was all about:
playsaves3
Member
An equivalent zen 5 in 2024-2025 shouldn’t be that much more expensive than zen 2 so no
LavitzSlambert
Member
First of all, that's not true. The new process nodes are more efficient, but Moore's Law has been replaced by the law of diminishing returns - at last. It's very expensive to fab chips, and each new node process has been hit by this. Just how it is.
Second of all, it's already been said, but if this thing is launching in November the specs were decided a while back and we would expect to see it go into manufacturing soon. Even a 2025 launch, I don't think we'd see prices drop enough to justify going to Zen 5. There is no use because games in development are not going to push hardware when there is a low spec base unit out. Zen 5 power or beyond is for the PS6 at this point, it makes absolutely no business sense.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I own a actual PS5 Slim.
It's smaller size and shiny white gloss coating make it a sexy beast.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
A controlled "leak" from the investor/analyst sector on the eve of GDC? Never!
mitchman
Gold Member
Speaking of GDC, expect the leaks to happen for real during GDC when devs speak about it over beers
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Speaking of GDC, expect the leaks to happen for real during GDC when devs speak about it over beers
Wouldn't surprise me if we get another Wired article from Cerny drop just before GDC starts to pre-empt leaks.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Oh I get what you are saying now. Basically that they should have two variants of the same APU, like how the current PS5 APU has 2 Shader engines with 10 work groups each resulting in a 40CU total (with 36Cu active), the PS5pro would just be a variant of that but with 2SE with 15WG/SE resulting in 60CU total with 56CU active. And the only other differences would be things like the increased caches where applicable.
That could make sense I suppose, with the only issue I see is if the PS5pro is using RDNA3/4-based WGs. Those units are fundamentally different from RDNA1/2 WGs in such a way that they would be wasted on a stock PS5. Eg. In RDNA3, each CU has twice the number of ALUs and Vector units compared to RDNA1/2. This is why RDNA3 is capable of VOPD (or dual issue compute). Ot at least the first generation of it which translates to just around a 20% improvement in actual compute. The reason for that has something to do with how the VOPD data results are compiled, something about two inputs but one output. So rather than doubling of compute, you just end up with overall faster compute. RDNA4 could address this and allow you have actual real double compute.
Anyways, all that hardware would be wasted on the base PS5.
Then the question becomes, assuming both the PS5 and PS5pro APUs are on 5nm at some point. And you are making 3 PS5s for every 1 PS5pro. If you use the current PS5 arch but on 5nm, you still end up with a chip that is smaller than a stripped-down PS5pro-based chip even with them having identical CUs. Because there are things in the PS5pro CU that you just can't mess with that would mean a PS5pro CU will be bigger than a PS5 CU even on the same node. That means its still cheaper to make a PS5 chip, based on the current PS5 architecture.
Its one thing to just remove blocks of CUs, cache...etc. Its another thing if you have to start changing RTUs, ALUs....etc within a CU.
Ronin_7
Member
You took what Sony said way too literally.
PlayStation 6 is 2028, PlayStation 5 Pro is happening this fall.
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blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
If PS5 sales have indeed peaked l think Sony will try to keep a tight lid on Pro for now.
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XesqueVara
Member
Zen 6 is just an optimization of Zen 5 so don't worry about that, all the Funny things are happening on Zen 5I'm not so sure about RDNA 4 being out of the table, remember ever since Sony switched to AMD they used the latest and greatest GPU architecture available on the year of release on PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5. So they clearly have early access to the architecture to make these decisions. Though sure they might skip some features here and there that arent needed for the console just like Cerny implied they did for PS5 with RDNA2.
Zen 5 yeah... Judging by Cernys past comments i rather be pessimistic and assume Zen 2 and be pleasently surprised down the line with something like Zen 4. I remember him saying they did not upgrade the PS4 Pro GPU because it wasn't a new gen and made similar comments about things like CPU, SSD defining new gen hardware.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Your favourite Youtuber is back with another video.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
SonGoku
Member
This goes beyond the scope of my knowledge but couldn't they take advantage of the more modern hardware by introducing a use it at your own risk boost mode that has slight chance of breaking the game. That way GPU/RT bound games with dynamic resolution could hit upper bound of targets or more stable fps
Correct but the second question we should be asking is:
Whats cheaper to manufacture a PS5 APU on 6nm or a mini version of the Pro APU on 5nm? Also taking into account a PS5 Slim with mini pro APU would be smaller and more power efficient thereby reducing other manufacturing costs like cooling, power supply, shipping.
Original PS5 APU would be smaller on 5nm yes, but that's like a 100+ mill R&D investment to shrink the chip to 5nm which is why they haven't done it already
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saintjules
Member
Didn't realize you were back. Was looking for you during the launch of the PS5 back in 2020. Didn't know you were active again
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
They can't do that. Well, not can't.. but more like won't. It would be akin to having something like an XB1S. The base PS5 based on the PS5pro architecture, would perform better than a normal base PS5. I just don't see sony doing that.
Nope. I don't get where people are getting that from. The reason they haven't done it already is that the actual chip is cheaper being on 6nm than on 5nm... nothing to do with some R&D budget (that isn't even really Sony's business). Even if its a $100M R&D investment (which it isn't), if 5nm was actually cheaper for them than 6nm, they would be saving at least $20 on every chip alone, and probably another $30+ on everything else that they benefit from having a smaller chip. So that's a smaller chassis, smaller PSU, smaller cooling...etc.
If they make 20M of those, that's already $1B in savings right there. That's how these things work and how the math is done. So even if the R&D cost was $100M , or hell $250M... can you see how much they save from just 20M consoles shipped that would make doing it a no-brainer?
This is a great way to look at things to understand that if you can bet on anything they do, the one sure bet is that it would always be what costs them the least possible amount of money. Even something that means they spend $5 they don't need to spend, extrapolates to like $250M across 20M consoles.