Radical_3d
Member
99% of the users have a 3060 or a laptop GPU. Are you telling me those guys don't have to optimize their game?
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PlayStation 6 Release Locked for 2027, “Not Just on the Table, It’s the Plan,” Says Kepler2 Following Sony and AMD’s Project Amethyst Showcase
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Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
They have been following 7 years since PS3-PS4. Before that it used to be less than 7 years.
Zathalus
Member
45% of Steam has a GPU more powerful than a 3060. And optimising your game is hardly rocket science and is a whole different ballgame vs having extensive issues to troubleshoot. Even then, the Nvidia app can resolve most of the optimising for the average user.
It's certainly not as plug and play as a console, but neither is it a troubleshooting nightmare for most.
MidGenRefresh
Banned
HDR is broken (yes, I use Windows 11), Windows in general but more specifically arbitrary CPU requirements for updates, drivers, game optimisation, differences between DirectX versions, DirectX was a pain years ago BTW, specific solutions like copy this DLL here for problems that only a 0.1% of the user base has, change an .ini file…
From the top of my mind I remember those but just go to PC GAF or any other forum to find more.
Thanks. I didn't remember that: set up everything. What a fucking pain. Ports randomly not working even if they are plugged to the motherboard, Windows 10's personal beef against WiFi drivers…
I don't have a horse in this race, guys. I love playing strategy on PC. But good for you if everything has been a Newell's bliss.
Most people don't even know what DirectX is. It's not something you need to think about when on modern system. And by setting things up I mean installing Nvidia app that handles drivers and Steam. That's all I had to do when I build my current PC. Not a problem since.
Radical_3d
Member
Half the planet is playing Fortnite and MOBAS, don't come with Steam Survey numbers to me.
Good for you! I hasn't been my experience in the last 30 years.
Felessan
Member
It's not like I can't do it.
I worked in QA/BA for 4 years and now I'm in PL control line of work that requires troubleshoot not meager PC but bank finance and it's in order of magnitude more difficult task.
I just don't want to do it, see no value to spend my free time on it and have more than enough this problem solving stuff to want to relax from it a bit.
Drivers problems, multimonitor setup issues, memory leakage issues etc.
Part of the problem is that my PC is multifunctional usage, I find it nonviable to build PC just for gaming and also there are not just Steam but rather a number of launchers and some of them seems to be not as good as others.
I can't keep my PC to be a clean install with Steam only, and as I add things installed problems start to snowball.
Not to mention hardware compatibility/setup issues, but those usually one-time on assembly. But still eat a lot of efforts.
Zathalus
Member
It's a far more accurate claim than 99% have a 3060 or laptop GPU. But that is besides the point, what does the relative strength of your GPU got to do with the supposed difficulties of PC gaming? I'll reiterate, most people simply do not have a long exhaustive issues with gaming on PC, it certainly wouldn't have exploded in popularity of over the past decade if that was the case.
TheRedRiders
Member
I don't game on PC so I'm curious on what you mean by this?
Lokaum D+
Gold Member
Lol, aside form the "OK Google" and the "build in PC " thats the 2025 PC experience i have and anyone can have, its like you guys still living in the ealy 00s
But if you want to gaslight youngster into PC "plug and play" be my guess.
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Radical_3d
Member
Look at you, inventing words so you make Plug&PlayC gaming look bad, smh my head...
Zathalus
Member
Nvidia scans your PC and can tweak or recommended the best settings for that game and your hardware. It's not perfect, but it helps those that don't want to bother or are not tech savvy.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
HDR is broken (yes, I use Windows 11), Windows in general but more specifically arbitrary CPU requirements for updates, drivers, game optimisation, differences between DirectX versions, DirectX was a pain years ago BTW, specific solutions like copy this DLL here for problems that only a 0.1% of the user base has, change an .ini file…
From the top of my mind I remember those but just go to PC GAF or any other forum to find more.
Thanks. I didn't remember that: set up everything. What a fucking pain. Ports randomly not working even if they are plugged to the motherboard, Windows 10's personal beef against WiFi drivers…
I don't have a horse in this race, guys. I love playing strategy on PC. But good for you if everything has been a Newell's bliss.
I have no idea what issues you are having here...ports not working on your motherboard. It sounds like you have faulty hardware.....
I literally work in PC gaming and see 100s of thousands of systems ship each year with none of these issues. A system shouldnt have these issues and sounds like hardware issues to me.
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Radical_3d
Member
Faulty hardware hard to demonstrate for a refund. That's another check.
Felessan
Member
Did it though exploded in popularity?
PC always was a cheap and rough way to play with hundreds of millions of players. They pirated games or played f2p and no one bothered by/remember them until Steam came and added some of them to it's CCU number. And it still have a long way to go, Steam represents less than 20% of total estimated number of PC players.
It's a gaming of no choice - people will play on PC even if it has exhaustive issues as it's the only way they can afford (and mobile is no better).
Zathalus
Member
I'm referring to the actual market that buys and plays the latest releases, those actually invested into the PC market. And there is absolutely zero doubt that popularity has grown. We have the increase in revenue on PC from multiple reports, Capcoms own yearly reporting, Steam growth, the increased popularity of higher end GPUs, Twitch and Discord explosive growth, the very fact that PC is far more talked about here and on social media. No third party ignoring the PC platform is another clue, companies go where the money or growth is.
But that is incidental to my point, PC gaming is much less of a hassle than it was, especially vs the 90s up until the late 2000s. As I've reiterated several times, PC gaming is not flawless, but the far majority of times things simply work or have minor issues swiftly resolved. I last reinstalled my OS 2.5 years ago and the number of issues I've had with new releases I can count on one hand.
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1) Out of the box - 9/10 games need setting adjustments for performance/quality (some run fine but are using the worlds worst settings by default, others default to something that runs badly even on 5090, it's virtually never just 'plays well out of the box').
2) Configuration issues - be it controller support (on non-steam games), broken HDR (in 2025, situation is far worse than it was in 2020), DX12 games booting in wrong scale/resolution (for some forsaken reason, Windows DPI still isn't a solved problem in games in 2025, and this problem actually got significantly worse after DX12), general stability, stutter struggle fixes, broken VSync/refresh/framerate behaviours etc etc.
3) Misc. special settings - this is a bit of a 'user-fault' scenario but on PC, all the flexibility afforded to us means quality of life things like using Gyro aiming or other exotic control schemes. Which works - yes, but it's work to make it work almost every time. Out of the box, best case is controller support - but even that is not guaranteed by a lot of PC releases in 25, non-Xbox controllers are still a shitshow without Steam, and most MS 1st party software struggles even with XBox controllers if you happen to have the misfortune of using more than one controller on your device.
All in - starting up a new PC game can take anywhere from 5 minutes to several hours before it's in 'playable state'.
And some just can't be 'fixed' - eg. Hot Shots Golf is still hopelessly broken several months in. I sometimes 'luck' into a playable state but the game has something severely broken with internal state of settings and I get performance that is stuck everywhere from 35fps to 80fps on the same settings - as a random dice roll.
Not to mention it crashes... a LOT.
Codeblew
Member
I am mostly in the same boat. Spend all day on the computer (that I built myself) writing software. When its time to relax, going in the other room, sitting on the couch and gaming on my PS5 + 65" Oled sounds like a nice change of scenery.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Driver issues are so rare that they make the "headlines" when a bad driver shows up.
Not that you really need to be updating your drivers all that often, especially if you are on a LTSC version of windows.
Whats the last major release with memory leaking issues.......
What multimonitor issues?
Arent most DX12 and Vulkan games borderless windows right now?
My gaming PC is also my "work" PC........i even fuck around and use Gaming Drivers instead of Studio Drivers as advised by near literally every company ive ever worked for........both AMD and Nvidia are solid as fuck right now and have been for long enough that I dont even consider driver issues an issue.
Hardware compatibility?
Like what....you bought an LGA1700 motherboard and an LGA 1718 CPU doesnt fit inside it?
Lets not be retarded here.
Almost all PC components are basically plug and play if you can read......99% of RAM chips a novice would buy will work with 99% of the motherboards a novice would buy(Thats the only issue I can really think off but again, get 6000Mhz and you home and dry 9.82634674 times out of 10......if you arent comfortable building the machine because reading is hard, then just get a prebuilt.
PC building has never been easier cuz these days its basically stupid proof (dont go to PC help forums/reddits cuz youll lose faith in humanity).
I genuinely think people are being obtuse when they say putting a PC together that just works is "effort".......
Is it easier to just buy a console and call it a day, get the game put it in and it "should" work as expected? Sure.
And I dont think youll find anyone telling you otherwise.
But lets not act like PC gaming is rocket science........multiple store front?
The worst store front is basically none-existent now since EA now publishes on Steam.
GOG and EGS work as expected. (Dont @ me about refunds or whatever)
We will see how the Rockstar launcher works after GTA.
Xbox App.......well, it has its problems ill give you that, if you actually use Gamepass on PC (the only reason you should be using the Xbox on PC) the biggest issue is that the Windows(PC) version of games sometimes get updated later than the Steam version.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
WIld, ive been PC gaming for years upon years and to me....settings you should always tweak upon booting a PC game. Its why we game on PC, surely. But overall, if you dont want to choose the settings just press a preset for low , medium or high etc.
Never had config issues all the way back to the 360 gen, just plug in any xbox controller and you are away. Dont have a clue what you are talking about with DX12 and all that stuff.
I fully sit in the camp of, if you are buying a PC, booting it and plugging a Playstation, Xbox or 8 Bit do controller in via USB or bluetooth that you have very little to worry about.
Now, if you tell me you are modding to use gyro aiming devices etc, then yes, you are tinkering. Not trouble shooting, its tinkering making things work that werent designed to by the developer. Thats not troubleshooting.
Neofire
Member
Ignore the anecdotal testimony people keep throwing out, everyone knows that PCs are vastly more complex to enjoy in reference to gaming than consoles. Hence the reason why 95% of casuals do not game on PC. There have been studies about this very subjects. Alot of people on this forum work in the tech industry and have very large salaries trying to make it seem like everyone should run out and spend 2k plus on a gaming PC. A true gaming PC isnt cheap on top of the knowledge you need to properly use it.
An example is the recent release of borderlands 4 it was a mess on PC and if you didn't know how adjust your shader compilations you would have all types of issues. The average gamer wouldn't even begin to know how to do that.
Radical_3d
Member
The length, irregular paragraph spacing and denial of this post is somewhat PC gaming in itself.
Felessan
Member
Drivers crashing to kernel, sometimes to the point of necessity of driver reinstall is not that uncommon, especially in uncommon setup.
For example my memory usage now is 15 Gb with Chrome and some minor apps running to a total like 7-8 GB. Where the other half memory used? It's in some mapped file, paged/unpaged pool etc and I have zero idea why this stuff bloat so much. Not that I care, I have enough ram to not care, but on my notebook on which I play during trips the same stuff can literally kill all memory, making Win to freeze. And this fucking shit sometimes persists even over reboot as it's obviously some memory mapping issues bloated out of proportion.
Multimonitor support in general historically quite weak as 90% users use 1 monitor and multimonitor support for gaming is abysmal as 90% of multimonitor support are for office use. There is wide range of bugs and glitches. Last time I run Wukong benchmark fullscreen it killed driver completely when I accidentally clicked on second monitor. It took me around an hour to reanimate system, a thing I would really not like to do after work.
Yeah, plug and play but you have to manually update firmware on motherboard via flash drive and some bells and whistles otherwise it'll not recognize your CPU or memory because they are too new for this MB. Or DDR5 had different versions for AMD/Intel and didn't start at all if you got wrong version. On the first startup takes 5-10 mins for MB to test timings etc and it looks like PC just broken and stuck on some checking state. You have to go and google WTF is going on each time - this stuff is very exhausting. And not stuff I enjoy or would like to spend time on.
We certainly live in different worlds.
I have Steam, Epic, Mihoyo, FF14 (as my account from way before Steam era), ToF and GFL2 launchers. Along Chrome with numerous tabs, codecs, vpn, messengers and some other stuff.
Work is expected - expected by whom? Do you measure expectation from the point of layman gamer or do you know exact amount of overhead, system pollution and interference each launcher causes? What is their compatibility with each other, how often they clash over system resources?
Kernel anti-cheats for example are huge pollution and no one know how good they are written.
I did work in QA and clean system is a system with fresh Win install and one app. Having tens of apps running for years make system very polluted and it brings a lot of problems.
TheRedRiders
Member
The fact that we know almost all the specs two years before launch is wild, and the production timescales.
If memory serves me correctly, we learnt of the PS5 and Series X leaks via Github around a year and a half before launch, and even then the specs were debated (PS5's RT and such.)
I guess Sony are going to have to heck of a job showcasing this thing and especially its software.
nial
Member
A couple of rough days for team 2028, huh?
Msamy
Member
From the start it's perfectly 2027 I don't know where that idea is about it 2028 came from.
TheMule1983
Member
4500 posts in 4 years says otherwise. Get off the internet some. It's good for you.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
VolticArchangel
Member
I wonder if the PS6 handheld will use lpddr6 or 6x?
Jedec's press release was back in July this year.
Will Samsung/SK Hynix make lpddr6x modules in time for a device that goes into mass production and release in 2027 or will Sony stick to lpddr6?
Jedec's press release was back in July this year.
Will Samsung/SK Hynix make lpddr6x modules in time for a device that goes into mass production and release in 2027 or will Sony stick to lpddr6?
Giallo Corsa
Gold Member
Then again, 265 posts in 18 years definitely shows that you're still a sock account.
Now, go back to your desk and await for further marching orders 'cause we can keep doing this until the end of times.
LPDDR5X
oh thank god hopping the ps6 does not go up to $2000 by the time its out.
Proelite
Member
peish
Member
2027 is a good time. I assume sony will use 3nm 3np for the whole apu. Gddr7 will be 2 years old. We will have the latest zen6 and rdna5/udna and matured pcie5 nand, less heat.
Even though zen6 ccd is supposedly using super 2nm, but that line is fully booked.
7nm ps5 to 3np ps6 theoretically will give a big boost IF sony chose to stick still with 256bit bus and x70 class gpu…. But seems the costs of next gen manufacturing are too high for sony to hit the $499+ srp… they had to downgrade to 160bit bus and x60 class gpu
Even though zen6 ccd is supposedly using super 2nm, but that line is fully booked.
7nm ps5 to 3np ps6 theoretically will give a big boost IF sony chose to stick still with 256bit bus and x70 class gpu…. But seems the costs of next gen manufacturing are too high for sony to hit the $499+ srp… they had to downgrade to 160bit bus and x60 class gpu
HDR is broken in general, there's a million different standards and no way for content authors to verify against any of them.
VolticArchangel
Member
Fuck.
So they cheaped out.
At least they could have gone with lpddr6 for double the bandwidth.
Do you have any numbers on bandwidth or think it will constrain future PS6-only gen games once we're out of the crossgen period?
Not really cheaped out since they went with a 192-bit bus. The handheld actually has a higher bandwidth/Flop ratio than the console.
VolticArchangel
Member
Interesting.
You think w/e this number, will be adequate enough, for an entire generation, on both it's screen size/native res (presumably 1080p 120 Hz LCD) and TV connectivity (out) using PSSR 2.0?
Again, on next gen only games, arter the cross gen transition period.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
think more along the lines of a handheld device that would run games natives at 540p and PSSR that to 1080p. And for the console, that would be 1080p - 1440p native PSSRd to 4K.
We all like throwing specs around... but I think it's better to look at said specs from the perspective of what the machine is trying to accomplish.
Knightime_X
Member
Will wait for ps6 pro
Ashamam
Member
I would have thought comparisons with prior generations would be dangerous, given the expanded availability of compression when feeding the GPU. We effectively have a 'virtual' bus now that is increasingly important each generation. This being a Cerny focus by the sounds of it.
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peish
Member
I asked my copilot buddy
The fastest lpddr5x now is 9600 used in a19 pro soc. At 64bit, it gives 76.8gbs bandwidth. Im surprised sony chose 192bit bus, thats triple channel? It gives 230gbs memory bandwidth
Lpddr6 is set for 2026, its starting speed is 10667, while its only 10% faster. Lpddr6 supposed to use 48bit bus per channel, if mark chose lpddr6 triple channel, it will be 288bit bus giving 384gbs memory bandwidth
But every flagship mobile phones in 2026-27 will buy up all lpddr6 and we know sony will never use 288bit bus ..
kazuyamishima
Member
Why would they need to release the console in March 2027? Sony will release it in November 2027.
Perrott
Member
To capitalize on the then somewhat-still-fresh launches of Fable, Gears of War: E-Day, Forza Horizon 6 and an Infinity Ward-developed COD? Halo: Combat Evolved remake, State of Decay 3, Clockwork Revolution, Marvel's Blade, 1666: Amsterdam, OD and the new IP from the ex-Rocksteady studio would make up the launch window for the new platform.
Not that any of that would matter that much, since we're talking about multiplatform games for the most part, but even then all those titles could benefit from the marketing bump that a new hardware launch always brings with it.
Hohenheim
Member
This.
If the latest "generation" started in november 2020, it's been five fantastic years for gaming.
But as far as games you can only play on the Playstation 5... not so much, I guess.
But if someone believes gaming in general have been boring in the last five years, well then they're not doing a lot of searching to find games.
Last five years have been absolutely brilliant, and packed with amazing videogames in most genres.
My Steam backlog is frightening.
dgrdsv
Member
It means people can't set up their HDR properly - or people trying to use HDR on an edge lit DHDR400 LCD panel.
There is literally nothing "broken" in PC HDR for years at this point, and I'd even argue that with Reshade allowing fixing native tonemappers and black levels PC is in fact ahead of consoles when it comes to HDR usage.
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