Support NeoGAF

[ricardo_sousa11]

It already failed.

The fact that they wanna push a new console is already a sign of failure.

They already have the most powerful console, and what did they do with it? Nothing.

This will be riddled with AI features no one asked for, and with the same software deficiencies it has now. And lets not forget the 300€ a year GamePass, literally the price of a new console every year, and the most expensive subscription service in gaming.

RIP Xbox, this isnt new and we all knew it would lead this way, Xbox is dead since the end of the PS3 era, thats almost 2 decades of not just terrible decisions, but literally the worst decisions anyone could do.

This will be studied on how to kill a brand for years to come.

 

[DEAD ORIGINAL]

But people liked Sega's consoles.

Just didn't buy them

 

[DenimDevil]

But people liked Sega's consoles.

Nope, there were a lot of Sega haters too. I was there, 3000 years ago.

 

[KungFucius]

Doesn't look like a do or die situation to me.

More like a comfortable position, they don't care how much it sells.

If it were a do or die situation we would be seeing subsidy, exclusives etc.

How is this even different from a PC? Isn't it just a line of PCs that will set a minimum spec for "Xbox" games for 7 years or so? If so I agree, it's just some HW configured to be easy to hook up to a TV and use. I.e. like a PC. I have had mine hooked up to TVs for 15 years. Typing this on one now.

Big IF here, If these things can replicate my PC experience, I may get one when its time to upgrade. This is if PC hardware is too much of a pain in the ass to acquire.

 

[Bodom78]

I heard for a secret source that it's actually their second last attempt at hardware. Don't tell anyone. This is just between you and me.

 

[Clear]

Some serious hopium being smoked in this thread!

Trying to paint Sony and Playstation as being in the same position as MS and Xbox is delusional. Just look at the performance over the past decade or so. Playstation sales are holding up and if anything Sony has pivoted to place Playstation at the centre of their business in all aspects, whereas Xbox has continually been buffeted around by whatever global steering plan is currently dominant at Microsoft.

The only parts of Xbox worth anything are the IP's and publishing businesses that they've acquired, the rest -especially hardware- is an ocean of red ink.

 

[Horseganador]

The last """Xbox""" was the Series S and X, this PC with Win11 that Xbox wants to sell is something else, hardware to make its transition to a publisher.

 

[TheGodfather07]

What are Microsofts own expectation for the device? It's not like they don't know how badly their hardware has been performing over the last 10 years now, so they must have low expectations sales wise. They know it's gonna have a tiny audience of Xbox fans. That's it.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I guarantee you that the big selling point for this will be agentic AI integrated into the OS.

They're going to try to use XBOX as a trojan horse to get people interested in using an agentic AI-driven version of windows. It's their only hope, after the whole enterprise sector fucking balked at their comments about doing it for the core windows business. Xbox has it's rabble of useful idiot fanboys that will evangelize anything MS shits out. So they will try to leverage those tards to push agentic AI for xbox.

 

[GriffinCorp]

If the next Xbox doesn't try to get out a change the game than I see them moving 3rd party but if they can bring some new PC/Console hybrid then maybe but I love Series X hardware but I don't really see why someone would buy that over a PS5? Xbox mismanaged the hell out of the brand.

 

[princelashawn]

Microsoft literally just ran an "everything is an Xbox" campaign, so the messaging already feels contradictory. If everything can be an Xbox, then why build another console at all? I still don't understand the logic. If your biggest first party games end up on competing platforms, you're removing the main reason to buy your hardware. Consoles historically live and die by exclusives. I bet Nintendo wouldn't be rushing to put something like zelda or Super Mario on competing hardware. If everything is "Xbox everywhere," the console feels unnecessary. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft changes their strategy again in a few months… just watch.

 

[princelashawn]

If its too expensive console gamers or their parents wont buy it. If its not flexible enough PC gamers wont buy it. That pretty much will leave it as a niche enthusiast product.

 

[I'm nobody]

This will be the most hacked device in gaming

 

[SEGAvangelist]

This will be the most hacked device in gaming

Sounds good to me!

 

[adamsapple]

This will be the most hacked device in gaming

If, as they say, it's just going to be Windows 11, it wouldn't really need any 'hacking' in the first place

 

[Jaybe]

The more I hear about Project Helix, the more it sounds like The Homer. I expect similar sales.

 

[reinking]

4.) How will PS6 fare if competition removes the online paywall? Interesting situation.

You have brought this up multiple times. I'm not sure if it is guessing or a source. Either way, Sony only joined in the online paywall because they saw that they were leaving money on the table due to Xbox Live. One of two things could happen. Sony drops pay to play online too and reverts back to the way they originally presented PSN. Or, they continue charging since the strategy was working for Xbox before Sony ever started charging for online play. You're trying to weaponize something that we already have a history to view and it was MS that introduced it. I'm not convinced they will give that revenue up at a time they are trying to increase margins.

 

[sodstall]

feel like this will just trigger a retreading the ole "alienware" era before those just became obscure case designs

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Well if it's indeed their last attempt we at least have the benefit of these tiresome Microsoft drama threads to end for good. Christ.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Doesn't look like a do or die situation to me.

More like a comfortable position, they don't care how much it sells.

If it were a do or die situation we would be seeing subsidy, exclusives etc.

They're in such a comfortable position they stopped doing exclusives. Makes complete sense.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You have brought this up multiple times. I'm not sure if it is guessing or a source. Either way, Sony only joined in the online paywall because they saw that they were leaving money on the table due to Xbox Live. One of two things could happen. Sony drops pay to play online too and reverts back to the way they originally presented PSN. Or, they continue charging since the strategy was working for Xbox before Sony ever started charging for online play. You're trying to weaponize something that we already have a history to view and it was MS that introduced it. I'm not convinced they will give that revenue up at a time they are trying to increase margins.

Dude is astroturfing like a mofo.

 

[Shogmaster]

If Helix fails? Brah. Helix is SFF APU gaming PC running XBox in BC. IHelix won't fail as a affordable gaming Mini PC.

Now if ppl insist comparing it to console sales metric, it already failed. $1200 item will never get close to sales number of $600~700 one.

But MS' goal with Helix already succeed since it won't be sold at a loss, and it will stave off Steam OS adoption in gaming from growing beyond 5%, especially if Steam Machine comes within $250 MSRP of Helix.

 

[ReasonBeing]

It would become an un-upgradable pc. Like a dated laptop.

So everyone is entitled to an opinion, so I am not arguing against you, but I do find your definition interesting. So was the PS3 not a console until they patched out the Other OS feature?

 

[Nydius]

Isn't this pretty much the exact same thing S SneakersSO said that made Jez and Company go apoplectic? Literally everyone except the ridiculously die hard Xbox "fans" can see the reality of the situation.

Helix is destined to sell even worse than the Series systems whose numbers are only as high as they are due to the budget Series S. That is clearly by design because Microsoft is obviously done losing money on failing hardware and would rather rake in the software profits. Helix is their exit strategy.

 

[laynelane]

You have brought this up multiple times. I'm not sure if it is guessing or a source. Either way, Sony only joined in the online paywall because they saw that they were leaving money on the table due to Xbox Live. One of two things could happen. Sony drops pay to play online too and reverts back to the way they originally presented PSN. Or, they continue charging since the strategy was working for Xbox before Sony ever started charging for online play. You're trying to weaponize something that we already have a history to view and it was MS that introduced it. I'm not convinced they will give that revenue up at a time they are trying to increase margins.

I think it's a way to introduce doubt or uncertainty regarding Sony. That person you are replying to has brought it up consistently - not only in Xbox topics but Sony ones too. It reminds me of other posters from the past who also used that same tactic. It's very transparent and tedious too.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Isn't this pretty much the exact same thing S SneakersSO said that made Jez and Company go apoplectic? Literally everyone except the ridiculously die hard Xbox "fans" can see the reality of the situation.

Helix is destined to sell even worse than the Series systems whose numbers are only as high as they are due to the budget Series S. That is clearly by design because Microsoft is obviously done losing money on failing hardware and would rather rake in the software profits. Helix is their exit strategy.

Pretty sure Sneakers said HW was already done and we wouldn't see another generation, as did a lot of people

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think it's a way to introduce doubt or uncertainty regarding Sony. That person you are replying to has brought it up consistently - not only in Xbox topics but Sony ones too. It reminds me other posters from the past who also used that same tactic. It's very transparent and tedious too.

It's only been 6 years now.

Xbox Live Gold Will Be Retired, and Online Multiplayer Will Become Free - Rumor

According to an extremely reliable source, Xbox Live Gold is soon going to be retired, and all Xbox online multiplayer will be free

wccftech.com

 

[PropellerEar]

Helix is a spiral shaped curve... basically a screw.
Therefore it's Project Screw Xbox fans even more

 

[laynelane]

Pretty sure Sneakers said HW was already done and we wouldn't see another generation, as did a lot of people

Didn't he say something like "put a pin in it"? That phrase means to pause something or put it aside for now. I wonder if people are mixing it up with "stick a fork in it" which does mean something is done or finished. That aside, your son must be happy that new hardware will be coming out for Xbox. I remember you mentioned he really enjoys their devices. Are you looking forward to it, as well?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Didn't he say something like "put a pin in it"? That phrase means to pause something or put it aside for now. I wonder if people are mixing it up with "stick a fork in it" which does mean something is done or finished. That aside, your son must be happy that new hardware will be coming out for Xbox. I remember you mentioned he really enjoys their devices. Are you looking forward to it, as well?

Maybe I am thinking wrong

I know he mentioned at one time HW was very much up in the air and to that I disagree, it wasn't

 

[Three]

So everyone is entitled to an opinion, so I am not arguing against you, but I do find your definition interesting. So was the PS3 not a console until they patched out the Other OS feature?

Not really no because you were limited with hardware access. Sure you could boot into otherOS and call it a computer but that wasn't the product.

 

[mckmas8808]

Project Hailmary. Do or die.

Basically! You don't put competing store fronts on your "box" unless it's a hail mary.

 

[memoryman3]

feel like this will just trigger a retreading the ole "alienware" era before those just became obscure case designs

Alienwares still exist and the best models go for $3000 or more.

 

[AJUMP23]

If sales are mediocre to poor yes.

 

[paolo11]

I'll consider taking it IF the rumored power is almost as powerful as 5090 (correct me if I'm wrong) and have a disc drive (unlikely). This plays PC games anyway so if this plays GOG and Steam games, that is awesome. Double bonus if it plays original Xbox games/360 to series x using disc as well

 

[Ebrietas]

So everyone is entitled to an opinion, so I am not arguing against you, but I do find your definition interesting. So was the PS3 not a console until they patched out the Other OS feature?

You could indeed turn the ps3 into a linux pc, but it didn't come from the factory with linux installed.

This "xbox" is a prebuilt windows 11 gaming pc that also has some method of running some or all series x games.

 

[Hector Hall]

I have voted yes but in truth last Xbox as a disctint thing from PC has been Series X digital edition.

 

[hardwood007]

The same could be said for the PS6. The console business has stalled. We're not even sure if there's going to be another console after the next generation. Consoles are converging to become PC's. Just take a look at the huge growth of Steam every year, that's where we're heading and not dedicated gaming devices in the living room.

That's true from a certain perspective, but the ps6 has also been the most profitable generation for Sony thus far.

I definitely agree on the point that consoles are converging to become essentially PCs.

 

[Hector Hall]

The same could be said for the PS6. The console business has stalled. We're not even sure if there's going to be another console after the next generation. Consoles are converging to become PC's. Just take a look at the huge growth of Steam every year, that's where we're heading and not dedicated gaming devices in the living room.

Huge growth of Steam?
How can we look at 5hqt when there are zero numbers and when we have one leaked as when the 2021 trial, it's way smaller than anyone thinks?

 

[Pokedot]

Huge growth of Steam?
How can we look at 5hqt when there are zero numbers and when we have one leaked as when the 2021 trial, it's way smaller than anyone thinks?

You can take a look at the peak concurrent Steam users every year:

 

[Hector Hall]

You can take a look at the peak concurrent Steam users every year:

After Newzoo data it has actually decreased in many western countries. Income.

At the same time, it has gained a lot of ground in China, probably that explains the number of users. But Chinese users may not spend big amounts of money.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Just wait.... The road will not be easy

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

They still believe in them now? Lmao even during their peak they came in last.

How many more flops can one company get?

 

[begotten]

Pretty sure Sneakers said HW was already done and we wouldn't see another generation, as did a lot of people

"Up in the air" =/= done.
"HW" =/= Just one device, or in this case Project Helix.

 

[ReasonBeing]

You could indeed turn the ps3 into a linux pc, but it didn't come from the factory with linux installed.

This "xbox" is a prebuilt windows 11 gaming pc that also has some method of running some or all series x games.

You missed context in my post before last. I was specifically referring to a hypothetical situation where Microsoft updated the Series X to allow Windows 11 to be installed, and If that would change the devices classification from a console to a PC. They said yes. That's when I brought up the PS3 and it's dual boot capabilities. In both scenarios, neither launched or at least shipped with an alternative OS installed.

It's not really important, I was just testing the limits of their definition with a hypothetical.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Nutall said the other day they were all in gaming. Which is it

 

[ZehDon]

"Failure" is a big word with a lot of meanings here. If Helix is sold for profit, then what constitutes a failure shrinks quite a bit. All Xbox has to do is recoup hardware R&D and upfront expenditure and then coast on profits - hardware and software. Unlike prior consoles, that's much easy to do when the hardware isn't digging you a deep hole that software needs to pull you out of.

 

[ReasonBeing]

Not really no because you were limited with hardware access. Sure you could boot into otherOS and call it a computer but that wasn't the product.

I just want to follow your definition and logic and see how far it gets us. In my hypothetical, if MS allowed one to install Windows 11 on their Series X, but only allowed you to utilize say 10GB of the RAM, then it wouldn't be a PC, but if they allowed for full access to the hardware then it would be a PC? What do you mean when you say PS3's other OS feature wasn't the product? It was apart of the product before it was removed due to security concerns.

Again, not trying to be adversarial. I find these thought experiments amusing. There also seems to be much debate about what makes a device a console or PC, and the PS3's ability to be used as a PC and even game on it (I had SNES emulation going, it mostly sucked) challenges what many people claim makes a console a console.

Ultimately, I do not care what it is classified as. I admittedly like the "hybrid" concept and its classification is irrelevant in my eyes.

 

[Three]

I just want to follow your definition and logic and see how far it gets us. In my hypothetical, if MS allowed one to install Windows 11 on their Series X, but only allowed you to utilize say 10GB of the RAM, then it wouldn't be a PC, but if they allowed for full access to the hardware then it would be a PC? What do you mean when you say PS3's other OS feature wasn't the product? It was apart of the product before it was removed due to security concerns.

Again, not trying to be adversarial. I find these thought experiments amusing. There also seems to be much debate about what makes a device a console or PC, and the PS3's ability to be used as a PC and even game on it (I had SNES emulation going, it mostly sucked) challenges what many people claim makes a console a console.

It wasn't the ram that was limited it was the GPU. You didn't have full RSX access. So you had a PC that couldn't play any proper games. If MS limited RAM then you would again have a low RAM PC. In both cases it would be akin to an un-upgradeable computer like a laptop or a laptop without a capable GPU.

Now this is different to a "product" where the thing is sold for profit and has access to play games from the built in windows OS. That is what I mean by Other OS not being the product because games weren't playable in OtherOS due to the RSX limit. MS could be selling a windows PC out of the box in comparison, one where there is no difference to a regular unupgradable laptop.

 

[ReasonBeing]

It wasn't the ram that was limited it was the GPU. You didn't have full RSX access. So you had a PC that couldn't play any proper games. If MS limited RAM then you would again have a low RAM PC. In both cases it would be akin to an un-upgradeable computer like a laptop or a laptop without a capable GPU.

Now this is different to a "product" where the thing is sold for profit and has access to play games from the built in windows OS. That is what I mean by Other OS not being the product because games weren't playable in OtherOS due to the RSX limit. MS could be selling a windows PC out of the box in comparison, one where there is no difference to a regular unupgradable laptop.

Not that it matters, as which specific hardware is limited is irrelevant, but the PS3 did indeed limit a "other OS" user to only 256MB of its 512MB total available ram (I am aware that it was split pools of memory). Regardless, that's besides the point.

I'll drop it, as it seems that the definition you are using is arbitrarily being shaped to ensure you can assert the PS3 was a console and my hypothetical Series X is a PC. Kind of defeats the point of the thought experiment and surrounding debate that I was trying to have. Not that you had to participate, it just comes across as disingenuous and is no longer fun/interesting.