RT performance is complicated, there's a huge variance from RT shadows, to RT reflections, to multi-bounce PT. Also features like SER/OMM/DGF can have a huge effect on performance as well. Without knowing exactly how AMD was estimating their own performance it's difficult to know exactly where Magnus/PS6 will land.
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Asha Sharma: Next Xbox Project Name: "Helix" - Will 'lead in performance and play your Xbox and PC games'
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Topher
Identifies as young
Even then, we gotta wait for actual benchmarks from the device to really know how capable the thing is.
So no way to know until we see it in action. Got it.
I'm not really worried about throttling from the specs that have been talked about. That will be more of a concern with cheaper lower-end variations from OEMs.
Proelite
Member
It only costs Nvidia like $420 to build RTX 5080 which they sell for $999, 100% plus profit margins.
Magnus AT2 Helix APU costs like $500 and total BOM being $900. AMD has their 20% or whatever profit margins built in to whatever they sell to MS. And MS will supposedly according toProelite sell those same APUs to OEMs at cost and OEMs build their own hardware and keep their own profit margins of 20-25%. So every1 involved gets some profits, MS getting an open platform built by OEMs.
My details from last year was a bit off. OEMs are not restricted to the leaked Magnus configuration. They can use any of AT4 through AT0 in their "Xbox"es.
I'm also hearing that "Magnus" is an OEM configuration and not the 1st party device.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Sure.....I'm just talking about real world results vs on paper specs. They rarely seem to line up.
Tobimacoss
Member
Wait, then what's first party?
Proelite
Member
No clue. I am not saying it's true either, what I've heard.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Magnus is the name of the NPU that powers it, Helix, or whatever they actually name it, will be the first party device, I suppose.
And here I thought it was guaranteed that Cyberpunk will run with path tracing @ 4 times the performance on PS6/Magnus.
/s
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reinking
Gold Member
That is how I took the Helix reveal. Things are still a little vague though. Hopefully we get some clarification this week.
To hit lower price points (still very high for a console) Helix may be using one of the gimpier derivatives.
Topher
Identifies as young
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Agreed
I tried hinting at this maybe a year or so ago in a couple of threads but it went under the radar
Topher
Identifies as young
Agreed
I tried hinting at this maybe a year or so ago in a couple of threads but it went under the radar
Puts some lights on your hints next time. I ran right over it
Edit:
Wait....are we now saying the first party Xbox device ain't Magnus???? What the hell is it?
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
That's no fun
AtomicStarving
Member
This is so fucked lol.
Tobimacoss
Member
It will be really amusing if Helix turns out to be Magnus AT1 rather than AT2.
Next-gen Xbox console could be joined by even more powerful “super-premium”partner offerings
Windows Central says the next Xbox console will essentially double-up as a fully-functional Windows machine. Alongside Microsoft’s console, third-party OEMs will work on delivering a similar experience across all price segments.
www.notebookcheck.net
MS is doing the Premium console, OEMs are meant to do the cheaper variants, and the Super Premium "Elite" consoles.
Topher
Identifies as young
That's no fun
Going to repost my edit from above:
Wait....are we now saying the first party Xbox device ain't Magnus???? What the hell is it?
viveks86
Member
Wait.... whaaatt? We somewhat knew about the OEM stuff, but if Magnus isn't the first party device, and the only specs that were leaked were Magnus, then nobody knows the specs of the actual first party device?Agreed
I tried hinting at this maybe a year or so ago in a couple of threads but it went under the radar
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
Magnus prob the top tier derivative and then Helix down below. So the 5080/5090 talk is for an ultra premium OEM device, which makes sense because that perfomance level seems hard to imagine at $1200 or whatever Helix ends up costing.
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Proelite
Member
It will be really amusing if Helix turns out to be Magnus AT1 rather than AT2.
Next-gen Xbox console could be joined by even more powerful “super-premium”partner offerings
Windows Central says the next Xbox console will essentially double-up as a fully-functional Windows machine. Alongside Microsoft’s console, third-party OEMs will work on delivering a similar experience across all price segments.
MS is doing the Premium console, OEMs are meant to do the cheaper variants, and the Super Premium "Elite" consoles.
Or 1st party Xbox could be AT3, ballmark PS6 in price and capabilities.
We don't know. Nor does it matter because OEM or not they're all Xbox consoles.
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Tobimacoss
Member
The plot thickens. It was probably MS themselves who leaked things to MLID to throw everyone off. Lol
Topher
Identifies as young
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Well it matters if people are expecting 5080/5090 performance out of the MS Helix and it ends up being 5070 level.
Tobimacoss
Member
AT3 is more like mid range, not Premium though. AT4 would be entry level.
Premium means AT2, Super Premium would be AT1. Not even sure if AT0 can go into a PC.
Proelite
Member
Sarah Bond did say that Rog Ally X is the blue print. So OEM does the premium and up.
Xbox stays within traditional console pricing and power ranges.
They won't expect 5080+ if MS Helix is $699-$799.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Price absolutely matters. In fact, if this ain't the beefy 5080 monster everyone was saying it is then that gives me a little more hope for Xbox because that means they ditched this silly idea of being the ultra-premium "console" and are bringing the price back down so that more people can afford the thing.
Proelite
Member
Phil did say they won't expand the market with $1000 consoles.
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viveks86
Member
So much time and energy spent speculating about their first party device and it was all for some OEM PC all along? Fml..
mayham2199
Member
I'm just trying to imagine a casual consumer being presented with all of this. This is going to be a mess.Basically....no one really has a clue what this thing is.
Proelite
Member
A casual consumer won't be seeing the OEM Xboxes next to PS6 in Target.
Topher
Identifies as young
That's the other problem. Consumers don't want to have to sift through all this console/PC, first party/OEM bullshit.
I keep saying: folks are just going to wind up buying a PlayStation.
How would you know that?
midnightAI
Member
The question is, if MS release early, will it still have the RT benefits that AMD and Sony are working on (Cerny's involvements with Project Amethyst for example), or will those only be released later or even exclusive to Sony (unlikely)?
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Xbox CEO Asha Sharma :
Project Helix, the code name for our next generation console. Project Helix will lead in performance and play your Xbox and PC games.
This statement doesn't align with the fact that Helix is the the weak sister in terms of performance of The Magnus family when, supposedly, "it's going to lead in performance" ..
The other option is that Project Helix is a set of first party devices, all considered "consoles", with the same characteristics (including BC), differentiated only by the AT type and hardware configuration.
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Proelite
Member
When was the last time you saw Dell, HP, Asus gaming PCs next to Nintendo and PlayStations.
Lead in performance versus PS5 Pro is what I assumed.
Topher
Identifies as young
When was the last you saw Dell, HP, Asus gaming PCs under the "Xbox" brand? And I thought they were "consoles".
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Proelite
Member
Outside of specs, price and branding, they're all functionally consoles.
Proelite
Member
Refer to Rog Xbox Ally for how the OEM consoles will be distributed.
viveks86
Member
Nah I'm pretty sure they were speaking with respect to their counterparts for next gen. If they meant ps5 pro... holy shit...
Proelite
Member
It's either the whole Xbox+OEM family leads in performance in general or it leads in performance compared to current Xboxes.
Current gen they have said Series X was the most powerful Xbox ever.
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Snowdonhoffen
Member
Damn, so the whole OEM rumor... was true?
Different manufacturers, different configurations, different prices, probably different names (Asus Xbox "Helix" S, Lenovo Xbox "Helix" SX, Microsoft Xbox "Helix" X, and so on), kinda sounds messy, but let's see how they sell the concept.
This is starting to feel like smartphones lol now imagine if they release a new model every year.
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mayham2199
Member
Well that's good cause otherwise this would be a confusing mess for the casual consumer.
I highly doubt that MS is referring to PS5 Pro, given that Helix is a next-generation project/product that they call "a premium product," and with the possibility (or so far, the foreseeability) that PS6 will be released very, very soon in the time.
But these aren't Xbox first-party consoles, which is what Peter Spencer, Steve Bond, and Ashra have claimed; it's going to be Project Helix.
On the other hand, I doubt that if Helix weren't the leaked Magnus specs, we wouldn't have already seen other consoles with those specs, since it's supposed to be the mass-market model compared to the OEMs.
Proelite
Member
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Topher
Identifies as young
Which means it will be a section at Best Buy right next to the other consoles. That's going to be a confusing mess for folks. If you don't think so then that's fine. We can just disagree.
Either way, fact is neither one of us know how Microsoft will approach marketing this stuff.
demigod
Member
It's an Xbox PC, I don't think you want another bet.
They know they'll be releasing the Helix before the PS6. Chances are they are talking about it being more powerful than series x or ps5 (pro). Basically will be the most powerful "console" at launch. That may or may not be eclipsed by PS6 when it releases, but that a future thats probably 2+ years away.