Proelite
Member
You plug it into a TV, you start to playing games on it...
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Asha Sharma: Next Xbox Project Name: "Helix" - Will 'lead in performance and play your Xbox and PC games'
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
You plug it into a TV, you start to playing games on it...
archangelmorph
Gold Member
Asus Helix SIt will be really amusing if Helix turns out to be Magnus AT1 rather than AT2.
Next-gen Xbox console could be joined by even more powerful “super-premium”partner offerings
Windows Central says the next Xbox console will essentially double-up as a fully-functional Windows machine. Alongside Microsoft’s console, third-party OEMs will work on delivering a similar experience across all price segments.www.notebookcheck.net
MS is doing the Premium console, OEMs are meant to do the cheaper variants, and the Super Premium "Elite" consoles.
Xbox Helix X
Asus Helix Ti
Asus Helix Ti Super
demigod
Member
I can plug my SFF PC into TV too, doesn't make it a console. Steam Deck is a PC handheld and not a console handheld, as are the other OEM PC handhelds.
Topher
Identifies as young
Slight adjustment
The PS6 APU has been rumored to be released in 2027. I doubt Microsoft is talking about a "premium product" and "leading in performance" when referring vs the PS5 Pro, and only using it as a flagship product for a few months.
With all this, I'm sure K KeplerL2 has always maintained that Magnus' specs are 100% those of the new Xbox Console....
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Oh I was mainly referring to multiple skus and multiple power levels within the whole ecosystem
I am pretty certain Magnus is also being used in the first party device(s) as I have also heard another Xbox codename on top of Helix
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
Didn't MS tell you say a lot less about their HW plans on here recently? Not complaining though - love the "Just guessing" posts
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
lol I have erased a response at least 5 times, not avoiding the question just trying to figure out how to word my response but about to head out for a bit so might not get back to you until mid weekDidn't MS tell you say a lot less about their HW plans on here recently? Not complaining though - love the "Just guessing" posts
Topher
Identifies as young
lol I have erased a response at least 5 times, not avoiding the question just trying to figure out how to word my response but about to head out for a bit so might not get back to you until mid week
Mid week? What's this cliffhanger shit man?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Didn't MS tell you say a lot less about their HW plans on here recently? Not complaining though - love the "Just guessing" posts
I have a good grasp at what's coming just don't want to come across as condescending if that makes senseMid week? What's this cliffhanger shit man?
That is unless their leadership change leadership shakeup has also drastically changed what they are building
reinking
Gold Member
Condescending? Put us in our place. Most of us deserve it.
Tobimacoss
Member
Xbox S
Xbox X
Xbox Elite
MS would obviously have to use one of the 4 AT GPU dies. It's very likely AT2, because otherwise it wouldn't make sense why they went with 70 CUs with two disabled, rather than 72 like it should've been.
He is headed to the GDC to meet Asha.Mid week? What's this cliffhanger shit man?
Yea exactly, I won't mind.Condescending? Put us in our place. Most of us deserve it.
Fess
Member
That's not a complete product with all parts turning it into a PC and cost for research marketing packaging licensing etc etc etc etc etc. Even at $2000 it would be an anchor on their economics reports until the end of time. I'm not going to pretend that I know anything in detail but I do build electronics and to me this sounds like fantasy.It only costs Nvidia like $420 to build RTX 5080 which they sell for $999, 100% plus profit margins.
Magnus AT2 Helix APU costs like $500 and total BOM being $900. AMD has their 20% or whatever profit margins built in to whatever they sell to MS. And MS will supposedly according toProelite sell those same APUs to OEMs at cost and OEMs build their own hardware and keep their own profit margins of 20-25%. So every1 involved gets some profits, MS getting an open platform built by OEMs.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
lol I have erased a response at least 5 times, not avoiding the question just trying to figure out how to word my response but about to head out for a bit so might not get back to you until mid week
viveks86
Member
Do we know if it's being livestreamed?
Tobimacoss
Member
Dude, the Bill of Materials including assembly and packaging is $900. MS doesn't need any more than 10-20% margins on it.
IIRC, PS5 BOM was like $450 with disc drive. Sony sold the Digital edition at a slight loss for $399. They sold the regular model for $499, at a slight profit, but it all broke even in the end due to other external factors.
The lowest MS could sell Magnus AT2 Helix for is $1k, but likely closer to $1199. An OEM would definitely need their minimum 20% profit margins.
I expect $599, $999 handhelds again, and $599, $899, $1199 Console SKUs. Remember, the Universal SKU would scale hardware, the devs would only need to create presets for the lower tier handheld and Magnus AT2 Helix in order to gain optimization tags on store.
Magnus is the codename for the custom SoC AMD is making for Xbox, it has nothing to do with any particular configuration.
As for OEM "Xbox PC" I have no idea, they already changed plans multiple times in the last 12 months and I wouldn't be surprised if Asha changed plans again.
Based on logic alone, and without any real expertise, I believe any OEM initiative would only make sense after the Helix launch. The contrary could be would be sabotaging themselves.
Not to mention how strange it would be if the "Asus Helix" were leaked before the official Xbox, which is supposed to be the base console, sell in larger quantities, and therefore should be finalized first.
Fess
Member
For a full PC with 32GB RAM and added Xbox hardware BC and 5080 raster and 5090 RT with sufficient cooling to make it silent enough for a living room?
Do you realize how unlikely this sounds?
Tobimacoss
Member
36 GB GDDR7 RAM***
Ask K KeplerL2
$900 BOM and $1200 likely. That's how technology advances, just because Nvidia overcharges, doesn't mean AMD and MS need to over charge. This is AMD's main chance to become the fixed spec hardware for optimization target for the entire PC Gaming, including all three major ecosystems, Xbox, Steam, Epic.
They want to flood the market with a portfolio of devices that are a good bang for your buck. And steal market share away from Intel/Nvidia. The same AT2 GPU die in Xbox Consoles, Xbox PCs, and entry level Discrete cards. The same AT3 GPU die in Gaming Laptops and mid range Consoles. All chips are Dual purpose, sometimes Triple purpose, that's how AMD saves money.
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RickMasters
Member
Hang on a minute! This is gaf! We are always hearing PC gamers on here talk about how they have their shot hooked up to their living room TVs! Personally I keep my PCs by desks. But M-ATX Sized PCs can probably do a hood impression of modern consoles in the living room. And it's not like Series X and PS5 are exactly 16- but console like proportions anyway.
And who says it needs 32GB of RAM. Most peoples gaming PCs don't even have that. I have 128GB in my OC and I've never seen it use more than even 20 Even with my work loads being placed on it. What the hell is a games console gonna do with 32GB or ram? It's overkill for most scenarios.
ResilientBanana
Member
I have a feeling it won't be Steam games, instead, I think it will be everything that's available on the Xbox Store on PC. I think the rumors are wrong.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I literally use a small form factor as my games console.
9800X3D - RTX 5080 SFF - TV - Comfy Couch.....65" OLED.....Bliss!
RickMasters
Member
MS got money. Lots of it. We call it expensive…. They probably just call it, another Tuesday.
RickMasters
Member
This is what I'm thinking the next Xbox will be like.I would very much like to build my own Xbox next gen. I want something compact but with upgrade options, so PCI slots and thunderbolt ( for External GPU enclosures) would be sweet!
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Steve Holt
Member
Well they do have stockholders to please. They have to keep it profitable.
Hence the introduction of Amy Hood with the 30% margin, the cancellation of a whole host of games, closing of studios, many job losses and a new multiplatform release initiative.
Topher
Identifies as young
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Have we had any leaks yet?
Fess
Member
I have all that and I just see the whole thing as incredibly unlikely. Something has to give: performance, size, noise. And definitely the price.
I have a PC with a 4090 and 7800X3D in the living room. It's more silent than any console but also about twice the size of a PS5…
Cost: You don't want to know.
Topher
Identifies as young
The BOM he is giving doesn't say anything about the 5080/5090 which is what
Fess
is talking about here. Turns out all this noise about the configuration is just noise and we don't know how powerful this thing will be.
Fess
ain't saying it can't be done. He is saying the smaller the form factor it is, the more expensive it is. And he's right.
Playboi Carti
Member
What full PC bruh? It's still a system built as a console at heart. Not a PC with discrete parts, the SoC/APU alone saves a ton of the BOM cost. If you throw these things enough money they can be as powerful as you want them to be, and way cheaper than an actual PC (granted they price it not to make a profit off of it), with the same performance.
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Tobimacoss
Member
So I was thinking. The Steam Machine is 28 CU RDNA 3.5. The PS5 is 36 CU RDNA2 but higher clocked. The Steam Machine is weaker than a PS5, close to 8.5 Teraflops vs 10.3 Teraflops.
If MS does an entry level Console with Magnus AT4 24 CU RDNA5, it would be more powerful than the Steam Machine, and could even be faster than the PS5.
It would make for a really nice entry level console.
Magnus AT3 based console with 48 CU RDNA5 would be very comparable to PS6 Orion with 52 CU RDNA5. I can see the PS6 going for $799 while the Magnus AT3 goes for $899. $100 upcharge for being open platform with no online paywall.
If MS does an entry level Console with Magnus AT4 24 CU RDNA5, it would be more powerful than the Steam Machine, and could even be faster than the PS5.
It would make for a really nice entry level console.
Magnus AT3 based console with 48 CU RDNA5 would be very comparable to PS6 Orion with 52 CU RDNA5. I can see the PS6 going for $799 while the Magnus AT3 goes for $899. $100 upcharge for being open platform with no online paywall.
splattered
Member
Im gonna laugh if MS consulted AI on how to reverse their Xbox tailspin and it told them to shakeup leadership, focus on consoles again, stop multi publishing. Full course reversal.
They wouldn't listen to consumers who actually buy the products but they listen to AI because its the future.
They wouldn't listen to consumers who actually buy the products but they listen to AI because its the future.
Tobimacoss
Member
I'm just going by what K KeplerL2 has stated in the past.The BOM he is giving doesn't say anything about the 5080/5090 which is what
I don't know about the MLID 5090 thing to be 100% correct, but if it's 5080 tier in Raster, one would imagine it's at least 5080 tier in Raytracing and Upscaling.
Kepler also stated RDNA5 has advanced beyond Blackwell. Nvidia will gain the upper hand with 6080 but AMD is catching up.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not sure, on the actual page on the GDC's schedule website, it doesn't list any streaming options but other sites like gamespot, ign etc might be there with cameras.
If they consulted the sloppy that is MS copilot they are well snd truly screwed.
Topher
Identifies as young
I'm just going by what K KeplerL2 has stated in the past.
I don't know about the MLID 5090 thing to be 100% correct, but if it's 5080 tier in Raster, one would imagine it's at least 5080 tier in Raytracing and Upscaling.
Kepler also stated RDNA5 has advanced beyond Blackwell. Nvidia will gain the upper hand with 6080 but AMD is catching up.
He also said you can't pin down RT performance like that so no, 5080 doesn't necessarily mean 5080 RT, much less 5090. Either way, folks really need to stop falling over themselves for paper specs. We've been down this road many times.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
Yeah the large semi-custom APU that will be designed for gaming is what will largely distinguish it from "just a PC". You can't buy those off the shelf. Most off the shelf apu's are smaller and are more general purpose with CPU being prioritized over GPU.
There will be some cost advantages of this over regular PC but perhaps less so if this going to positioned as a profitable nicher device.
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I'm considering the possibility that before or after the presentation they might publish an article or articles with the information, or even a live interview or one that's been pre-recorded but embargoed until permission is granted.
That said, it's hard to believe they'd announce Project Helix with such fanfare, highlighting the importance of what will be discussed for the future of The Xbox brand —which extends far beyond the interests of developers and publishers—and not do a live stream
Tobimacoss
Member
While technically correct, if AMD plans to use AT2, AT1, AT0 GPU dies in discrete cards to compete with RTX 6070, 6080, 6090 tier competitors, they can't be too far behind in feature set and capability.
Their Discrete card market share is already down to 7%, this is probably their last and best chance to gain back market share.
It's fun to discuss all the possibilities though.
demigod
Member
My man, the 2TB series x is going for $799. You think ms is still running a charity? Only 20% profit margins for OEM? Who do you think will be selling those?
ChuckeRearmed
Member
The bet on lower price market have never worked out properly - people just buy older generation of more powerful hardware. Especially with how successful DLSS was and the incremental visual improvements.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Helix is the project name, that's not going to be the final name of the hardware.
We didn't get Xbox Scorpio or Xbox Scarlett on release either, folks.
We didn't get Xbox Scorpio or Xbox Scarlett on release either, folks.