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[vaibhavpisal]

By all means, expand on your argument.

This type of optimisation works in PC space. Where CPU and RAM are usually in abundance.

For consoles they will have to optimise heavily for each SKU. Will be as much effort as making a new port cause thats what its going to be.

It would have been a different story if CPU was the same and they simply had to optimise for GPU and its VRAM. Much simpler that ways.

And if they make it mandatory and its a flop? that's a pretty big risk. The PS6 is pretty much guaranteed to be a hit unless they do something monumentally stupid, the handheld is much less of a guarantee. IF (and that's a big IF) the games cannot be cut down via the usual methods (lower res, lower settings, lower framerate) and still keep a decent degree of quality then why hold back the PS6 version? There wont be that many PS6 exclusives to start with of course, but I don't see why they would hold back unless the handheld is suddenly the best selling thing ever. Cutting games down to the handheld should be relatively simple if the game also supports PS5, but like I said, there's always the fallback of still being able to play the full fat version of PS6 games on the handheld via streaming anyway.

One of the things we do know about the PS6 is that its APU is designed around AI/ML, this will be used to not only do upscaling and frame gen but also to aid in other areas especially Ray Tracing/Ray Casting, this is something the PS5 cannot do, so if a dev wants to create very heavily used RT then that's when we may start to see some PS6 exclusives (my guess is that a new Ratchet will be released on PS6 at launch and that will be heavy RT use and exclusive, now whether that would work on the handheld is another matter as that will also have a similar albeit cut down APU).

You think they are going to continue support for the Series consoles? I don't, they flopped (I don't know why you keep bringing MS/Series up, they f*cked up), and of course Switch 2 is going to be supported for many years, it was only released 10 months ago

I dont see any point in launching handheld at all then, better to keep Portal as handheld. If it doesn't play natively.

AMD has developed a dedicated SOC for it. Seems like a big investment. Sony will have to get behind the product properly if they wanna sell it.

 

[ergem]

Only if they can promise and mandate that 100% of PS6 games will natively play on the handheld. Do you think it'll happen?

I don't think there will be a mandate. I'm thinking once PS7 is released, cross-gen with PS6 normal would be doable but not with PS6 lite. It would be too weak by then. There could be a mandate only until PS7 is released. But you're right, it will create PR problems and possible lawsuits.

Otherwise there will be PR problems and possibly lawsuits.

I haven't looked at this angle before. Now that you said it, I agree, naming the portable part of PS6 family will create problems later on. If there is a mandate, the PS6 handheld will be too weak once cross-gen with PS7 starts. That, or there will be no mandate. If no mandate, then it should not be named PS6.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This type of optimisation works in PC space. Where CPU and RAM are usually in abundance.

For consoles they will have to optimise heavily for each SKU. Will be as much effort as making a new port cause thats what its going to be.

It would have been a different story if CPU was the same and they simply had to optimise for GPU and its VRAM. Much simpler that ways.

You say things without actually knowing what they mean. It doesn't matter how many cores you have. Engines haven't been hardcoded to use specific cores since the PS3/360. Everything is built around scalability.

 

[TGO]

I don't don't know or care, but they definitely don't want to call it PS6 along side the PS6.

 

[midnightAI]

I dont see any point in launching handheld at all then, better to keep Portal as handheld. If it doesn't play natively.

AMD has developed a dedicated SOC for it. Seems like a big investment. Sony will have to get behind the product properly if they wanna sell it.

Why not, it would play all PS4 games natively, for some that would be enough. I'm not saying it wouldnt play PS5 or PS6 games either as it would play the low power games, I'm saying there wouldn't be a need to make it mandatory for ALL PS6 games to work on the handheld but there is already a way to play ALL games via streaming if you so wish for games that aren't mandatory. I don't see why that's a bad compromise, it doesn't restrict PS6 games in any way and the handheld itself would still be a very attractive proposition. (I'd personally prefer it if many handheld games were exclusive, there's something just different about a handheld only game, they ported some PSP/Vita games back onto console and they lost some of their charm for me such as Loco Roco, Mutant Blob Attacks and Patapon, even Lumines)

 

[vaibhavpisal]

You say things without actually knowing what they mean. It doesn't matter how many cores you have. Engines haven't been hardcoded to use specific cores since the PS3/360. Everything is built around scalability.

Games will work on Switch 2 as well. Doesn't mean the porting was easy.

Will be gargantuan effort for sure, trying to make handhelds keep ticking.

More will be clear once specs are announced.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Why not, it would play all PS4 games natively, for some that would be enough. I'm not saying it wouldnt play PS5 or PS6 games either as it would play the low power games, I'm saying there wouldn't be a need to make it mandatory for ALL PS6 games to work on the handheld but there is already a way to play ALL games via streaming if you so wish for games that aren't mandatory. I don't see why that's a bad compromise, it doesn't restrict PS6 games in any way and the handheld itself would still be a very attractive proposition. (I'd personally prefer it if many handheld games were exclusive, there's something just different about a handheld only game, they ported some PSP/Vita games back onto console and they lost some of their charm for me such as Loco Roco, Mutant Blob Attacks and Patapon, even Lumines)

PS4 only games? Lol

Why wouldn't I get one of the windows handhelds then? Way bigger library.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

They shouldn't release it as "PS6" cause it's highly likely that even their own titles won't look or run on the thing the same as on actual PS6, and 3rd party stuff will just be all over the place, possibly even omitting releases on either of the two platforms.

I doubt this would be the case... I mean, if it is, then this thing will fail.

They should call it PS6 lite because of ML and RT. A PS6 lite version of a game should be optional and not mandatory but I bet 99% of games will have a PS6 lite version because it will be the most sold console in the PS6 family of devices. Particularly I'm thinking of a subsidized $399 PS6 lite console without the screen, battery, and controls.

And if Sony also wants to sell millions of PS Portal (handheld streaming device), then they should release a new PS Portal version that could house the PS6 lite console. Sort of a modular approach to PS6 lite handheld. A PS6 lite handheld where everything is integrated could still be released as part of the PS6 family of devices.

PS6 devices:

• PS6
• PS6 lite console
• PS6 lite portable
• PS Portal 2 (that could house the PS6 lite console attached at the back to allow offline portable gaming)
• PS6 Pro (4 years later)

When PS6 lite console sells in the millions, then a PS Portal 2 will be a sought after peripheral.

While the idea of a PS6 lite without a screen sounds great, cause it would be cheaper... I doubt Sony would find it worth it to add on a completely different SKU to save the $85 an 8" OLED screen would have cost them. And significantly less if they went with an LCD screen instead. I see there being just three SKUs... PS6, PS6 lite and PS6pro. And to be honest, I have my doubts on the Pro.

It wont be as easy to port as Series S / X situation.

Processor are different. It will require a proper, new port to be made for portable. Might need invention of lower than low settings for full next gen games.


PS fanboys live in a bubble where Portal is doing gangbusters.

On the contrary, I believe it would be easier. Especially if the PS5's low power mode is any indication. At the end of the day, this all comes down to the SDK and the devs making sure they have a build that supports the PS6 lite. As it stands, devs already are taking a handheld-first approach to games thanks to the Steam Deck and now even the switch 2. If you can get your game running on the Steam Deck... then you sure as hell will get it running on the PS6 lite.

But what's really important, though, is that Sony has to have tools built into their SDK that make porting a build from the PS6 to the PS6 lite very, very easy. And there are ways to do that.

People keep looking at the Series S as some sort of reference for how having two different SKUs of a family of consoles is hard to pull off, but it is, because its the same thing with looking at the PS5 and PS5pro... or a PS4 and a PS4pro. The problem with the series S, is that it just lacked the right balance of hardware and/or tech to pull it off. It doesn't look to me that Cannis will have that issue, and that's specifically down to PSSR. eg. Immortals of aveum ran internally on the series s at around 436p, and while passable, it looks bad because of its upscaling tech. That game running on a PS6 lite, could be running at 360p and still look significantly better than the Series S.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Games will work on Switch 2 as well. Doesn't mean the porting was easy.

Will be gargantuan effort for sure, trying to make handhelds keep ticking.

More will be clear once specs are announced.

You're talking about porting to a completely different platform. That is not the same thing. The "handheld" aspect is irrelevant.

 

[midnightAI]

PS4 only games? Lol

Why wouldn't I get one of the windows handhelds then? Way bigger library.

And how much do they cost again to get similar performance? and how are you going to play PS4 exclusives such as Bloodborne? or the PS5 and PS6 games (native or streamed)?

But yes, way bigger library, we know that already so I dont know what you are arguing here?

 

[hououinkyouma00]

I'm of the opinion that it should just be be called PlayStation Portable with no 6.

Which numbers are we talking about? I read that it sold to around 7% of the install base in the US according to Vgchartz.

1. Vgchartz lol
2. Portal has sold 2M in the US alone based off of that number so it's sold faster then any PC based handheld and has greatly outsold every pc handheld outside of the Steam Deck. It's also been the number 1 accessory multiple times.

All that is to say if a streaming only handheld that everybody said was completely useless has sold that well then a real handheld definitely can.

Sony and handhelds, name a more unfortunate combo.

These idiots never learn.

Both PSP and Vita were great.

2Vita 2Furious

Vita best handheld

 

[ergem]

While the idea of a PS6 lite without a screen sounds great, cause it would be cheaper... I doubt Sony would find it worth it to add on a completely different SKU to save the $85 an 8" OLED screen would have cost them. And significantly less if they went with an LCD screen instead.

Not just the screen. The hefty battery and dual sense too.

 

[Melfice7]

These idiots saw the series s gimping a generation and thought "thats brilliant lets do the same"

If it has parity, it will gimp the ps6, if it doesnt have parity its a vita, it's not out and i already hate it

 

[midnightAI]

These idiots saw the series s gimping a generation and thought "thats brilliant lets do the same"

If it has parity, it will gimp the ps6, if it doesnt have parity its a vita, it's not out and i already hate it

Well, of course the big, huge, ginormous difference is...... the Series S isn't a portable, had it been they may have been onto something.

And Vita was a completely different kettle of fish, none of the internals were the same as the PS3, so zero compatibility across devices, all games had to have specific versions made

 

[vaibhavpisal]

People keep looking at the Series S as some sort of reference for how having two different SKUs of a family of consoles is hard to pull off, but it is, because its the same thing with looking at the PS5 and PS5pro... or a PS4 and a PS4pro. The problem with the series S, is that it just lacked the right balance of hardware and/or tech to pull it off. It doesn't look to me that Cannis will have that issue, and that's specifically down to PSSR. eg. Immortals of aveum ran internally on the series s at around 436p, and while passable, it looks bad because of its upscaling tech. That game running on a PS6 lite, could be running at 360p and still look significantly better than the Series S.

You're talking about porting to a completely different platform. That is not the same thing. The "handheld" aspect is irrelevant.

Already preparing to defend this thing to hell and back I see?

At least wait for all the details to be out first?

And how much do they cost again to get similar performance? and how are you going to play PS4 exclusives such as Bloodborne? or the PS5 and PS6 games (native or streamed)?

But yes, way bigger library, we know that already so I dont know what you are arguing here?

If this thing only plays PS4 games natively, not only will it be useless for most people, it will be dumbest thing Sony has done in years.

 

[midnightAI]

If this thing only plays PS4 games natively, not only will it be useless for most people, it will be dumbest thing Sony has done in years.

I didnt say that though did I, across several replies, are you just reading what you want to read?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Already preparing to defend this thing to hell and back I see?

At least wait for all the details to be out first?

You don't need to wait for the specs to have a fundemental understanding of how binaries and compiling work

 

[Ebrietas]

Interesting how people think the PS6 portable will hold back developers but somehow the Switch 2 will fit into multiplatform development just fine.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Already preparing to defend this thing to hell and back I see?

At least wait for all the details to be out first?

Please keep that fanboy nonsense away from me....

I am just speaking on the leaked specs, and that's what anyone can do at this point. I have not just previously made my reservations clear, I have also flat out said I do not even want them to do it at all.

Someone speaking on the specs and doing anything short of fear-mongering or skepticism doesn't mean they are defending it.

 

[J Required]

This thread is basically people's micro attempts at fud lol

"lets make it a PS5"
"Why not make separate games"
"It will sell like Vita"

True! The usual ones!

 

[midnightAI]

Already preparing to defend this thing to hell and back I see?

At least wait for all the details to be out first?

Doesn't that work both ways?

 

[Kokoloko85]

Already preparing to defend this thing to hell and back I see?

At least wait for all the details to be out first?


If this thing only plays PS4 games natively, not only will it be useless for most people, it will be dumbest thing Sony has done in years.

So far the rumours suggest it will play PS6 downscaled and it will do a better job at downscaling compared to Series S. Explains in the video. All rumours so far, but I think they are trying to make something future proof for PS6. So doubt it will be PS4 only or even PS5. Unless with all the global issues, things take a big change

 

[Kokoloko85]

These idiots saw the series s gimping a generation and thought "thats brilliant lets do the same"

If it has parity, it will gimp the ps6, if it doesnt have parity its a vita, it's not out and i already hate it

Or it might not be as big as an issue as Series S and X, he says in the PS6 handheld part

 

[Tg89]

It doesn't really make a difference. PS6 won't get exclusive games anyway, they're moving to a more Apple like ecosystem.

Probably looking at two generation overlaps going forward - games will run on PS5/PS5 Pro/PS6 Handheld/PS6, then eventually will be PS6/PS6 Pro/PS7 handheld/PS7.

Xbox Series failed cause Microsoft is incompetent at making compelling software, it has less to do with Series S. Plus, PS5 is a considerably higher baseline spec than a Series S and we're at the point of diminishing returns from this tech, you can easily make stuff run on PS5 by just turning off certain graphical features.

 

[Deerock71]

I think ultimately the only thing they're going to be releasing is a hybrid system. They're tired of getting their ass kicked by the Switch family. Right now they're just massaging their fan base for the inevitable.

 

[CLW]

Yes because it's likely to be one of the FEW selling points as I'm assuming it will not work unless you also purchase a PS6 (ps5 ps5 pro owners need not apply)

 

[Unknown?]

Back in the PSP days everyone complained about console ports saying, "Why would I play game A on a handheld instead of PS2?" and now everyone's okay playing console games on a handheld. Weird shift.

I never had a problem with it, I loved Tony Hawk and Midnight Club 3 on PSP.

 

[PlayStaytion]

My biggest concern are mainly Asian games like jrpg/jarpg, we want all of them on one box per platform.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Please keep that fanboy nonsense away from me....

I am just speaking on the leaked specs, and that's what anyone can do at this point. I have not just previously made my reservations clear, I have also flat out said I do not even want them to do it at all.

Someone speaking on the specs and doing anything short of fear-mongering or skepticism doesn't mean they are defending it.

So far the rumours suggest it will play PS6 downscaled and it will do a better job at downscaling compared to Series S. Explains in the video. All rumours so far, but I think they are trying to make something future proof for PS6. So doubt it will be PS4 only or even PS5. Unless with all the global issues, things take a big change

Leaked specs point it towards being way different than PS6, way harder compared to how series x and s were set up.

-Different cpus

-15 watts vs 160 watts (same architecture so this difference will be felt, hard)

-Less ram and gpu horsepower are a given, just like how it was in Series X/S.

To top it up, Sony has limited experience in scalable hardware. Will be their first effectively.

Doesn't that work both ways?

Not in this case. I respect that you are showing some consistency.

You probably criticised Series X/S approach and want to do the same with PS too. Unfortunately its not going to work. The product you want the handheld to be, its impossible to make it work in real world.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

The PS6 Handheld is actually quite capable given the leaked specs. Will handle PS5/PS6 games no problem.

In fact running games on the PS6 Handheld docked will likely look better than vanilla PS5 because of PSSR and much better ray-tracing tech.

Also, PS5, PS6 and the handheld will continue to be cross-gen. PS6 exclusives will be even more rare.

 

[GoldenEye98]

The PS6 Handheld is actually quite capable given the leaked specs. Will handle PS5/PS6 games no problem.

In fact running games on the PS6 Handheld docked will likely look better than vanilla PS5 because of PSSR and much better ray-tracing tech.

It defientely won't handle PS6 games no problem....

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

To top it up, Sony has limited experience in scalable hardware. Will be their first effectively.

Bro you're a moron lmao

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Bro you're a moron lmao

Their experience cannot be compared to MS surely.

They have decades of experience in scalability.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Their experience cannot be compared to MS surely.

They have decades of experience in scalability.

You're just refusing to listen. Like a fanboy.

Scalability is ingrained in these systems, including on PS. It is how backwards compatibility works. It is how the Pros work. It is how the PC ports work.

You're talking like Sony is some indie dev who has no idea on basic bloody concepts.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

PSgo PlayStation Go
A device that plays all generations of PlayStation.

 

[EverydayBeast]

It's the right time for the psp 3, psp laid down the foundation for today's handhelds

 

[midnightAI]

Not in this case. I respect that you are showing some consistency.

You probably criticised Series X/S approach and want to do the same with PS too. Unfortunately its not going to work. The product you want the handheld to be, its impossible to make it work in real world.

So, you want to wait on details to see if you are right but you don't want to wait on details to see if others are right? sounds legit

How is the handheld I want to see impossible to make work in the real world? Whats the difference between the handheld you want to see and the handheld I want to see other than you wanting them to mandate that ALL PS6 games are available on the handheld and I dont? Most game probably will work on both by the way, the specs will allow for cut down versions on the handheld in one form or other and then use upscaling/frame gen/lower frame rates to get them looking similar. The ONLY difference between my way of thinking and yours is that I would prefer them not to mandate all games are on handheld so that devs could fully utilise the PS6 if they so want to fully utilise the hardware without having to sacrifice anything so that they could get it working on the handheld (full path traced games for example). And we (mostly) know that not all PS5 games will work on the thing if the rumours about low power mode on PS5 are correct.

And yes, I criticised X/S approach at launch because I saw what MS were doing, releasing the base and Pro console at the same time, it was a dumb move. Releasing a mainline console and a handheld at (roughly) the same time is a completely different situation/approach.

 

[Blood Borne]

Also, they should simply name it "PS6 Portable". They shouldn't give it some stupid fancy name.

Simple names lets people know exactly what they're getting and sells more products.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Leaked specs point it towards being way different than PS6, way harder compared to how series x and s were set up.

-Different cpus

-15 watts vs 160 watts (same architecture so this difference will be felt, hard)

-Less ram and gpu horsepower are a given, just like how it was in Series X/S.

To top it up, Sony has limited experience in scalable hardware. Will be their first effectively.



Not in this case. I respect that you are showing some consistency.

You probably criticised Series X/S approach and want to do the same with PS too. Unfortunately its not going to work. The product you want the handheld to be, its impossible to make it work in real world.

So you think its just a random coincidence that the performance profile of the PS5 when it's in its power saver mode, just recently introduced, is almost identical to Cannis? Or are we going to pretend that the Steam Deck hasn't been successfully running games on its weaker than cannis hardwre... even including the recently released RE9?

And sorry, sony has little experience in scalable hardware... what do you think the PS and PSpro series has been?

The difference between you and me here is that I am hopeful they get it right, cause I know there is a right way to do something like this, but skeptical because I fear the CPU may eventually cause an issue... You, on the other hand, are saying it's impossible.

More so, I have also previously said that I do not even believe the PS6 will ever get an actual exclusive game. Everything made for it would also be released on the PS5. So my theory is that this thing isn't even being designed to run PS6 games, its being designed to run PS5 versions of PS6 games. With the added benefit being that unlike the PS5, cannis woud at least support things like PSSR and FG.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Leaked specs point it towards being way different than PS6, way harder compared to how series x and s were set up.

-Different cpus

-15 watts vs 160 watts (same architecture so this difference will be felt, hard)

-Less ram and gpu horsepower are a given, just like how it was in Series X/S.

To top it up, Sony has limited experience in scalable hardware. Will be their first effectively.



Not in this case. I respect that you are showing some consistency.

You probably criticised Series X/S approach and want to do the same with PS too. Unfortunately its not going to work. The product you want the handheld to be, its impossible to make it work in real world.

yes but he explains why its less of an issue compared to series s/x

 

[FMN]

It's a terrible idea. The Vita failed despite actual exclusives and a reasonable price. Unless they can get the handheld PS6 to $500 or under it's going to bomb and might even hinder overall game design if everything has to play on every version of PS6. It's just going to be a device for the type of enthusiast who buys the Pro.

 

[Chittagong]

The handheld is the only thing they should do and even then the rumoured spec is too much.

The concept of a thousand dollar next gen console with the equivalent of nearly cutting edge PC graphics tech and PC levels of memory is retarded and will bomb.

In a world where a perfectly competent Apple laptop for students is $499, the amount of people wiling to drop double that for a console is very small, and certainly won't support games that need to sell 6 million copies to break even.

 

[rm082e]

I don't think they will call it "PS6". I think they will give it a unique name and message that it's a handheld for the PlayStation ecosystem, just like the Steam Deck is for Steam. It will play a lot of games, but not every game for any of their platforms. They'll have a list of games that are certified to work on it and an option to filter on that in the digital store.

I don't think they will hold back the console by requiring all PS6 games run on the handheld. This won't be a Series S situation.

 

[Parazels]

Personally, I think they shouldn't make it at all. I can see how PS6 games can be scaled down to run on the handheld, even if that means running the games at 480p/360p, lowest setting of everything and using PSSR to upscale that to 1080p. I don't see that as a problem.

I just feel they would have been better making a PS portal 2 that is strictly a streaming device, and that you don't have to have a console to stream to.

I also feel the PS6 handheld would be called the PS Portal 2.

Good point. They should just add as many features as possible to the next Portal and call it a day.
At least the PS Portal has already proven there is a demand for it.

 

[Self High Five]

Sony and handhelds, name a more unfortunate combo.

These idiots never learn.

Great thing about AI is that it's super quick to answer stupid questions like this

The PlayStation Portable (PSP) and PlayStation Vita combined for approximately 96 to 98 million units sold globally. Based on historical sales data, at least 9 major dedicated handheld consoles (not including variants or niche systems) sold fewer units:

Nintendo 3DS : ~75.94 million units
Game Gear (Sega): 10.62 million units
Leapster (Leapfrog): 7 million units
WonderSwan & WonderSwan Color (Bandai): 3.5 million units
N-Gage (Nokia): 3 million units
Atari Lynx: 2 million units
Neo Geo Pocket & Pocket Color (SNK): 2 million units: 2 million units
TurboExpress (NEC): Often estimated under 1.5 million units

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Good point. They should just add as many features as possible to the next Portal and call it a day.
At least the PS Portal has already proven there is a demand for it.

Yup... but unfortunately, adding as many features as they can to the PS portal 2.... is probably how they ended up just making a PS6 handheld.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

yes but he explains why its less of an issue compared to series s/x

Less of an issue, how?

What was the issue with Series S/X?

Devs had the issues. This will be bigger headache than that.

 

[AGRacing]

I know there'd naturally be many PS6 games that would end up running on the handheld great…

But I don't really want to accept that there won't be some "coded to the metal" graphical bangers that just can't scale down.

I guess PC architecture took that away from us… but nothing is refined as a result. I'm watching goofy videos of which of the 3 graphics modes I should play Crimson Desert on my Pro… and whether or not to engage VSYNC or 120hz mode….

It's like "Here's 3 tuning profiles for your new car… none of them are for your SPECIFIC engine but they'll technically work and you'll hate something about all 3 of them."

I just want the devs to have a single machine power target and push the thing to the absolute limit. We used to see INCREDIBLE things under those circumstances.. and systems like the PS5 just haven't had the same chance to reach their full potential.

The "solution" today is we need to brute force the graphics potential instead because there's no refinement effort … and we end up with machines that are fucking 1000 dollars as a result. It's ridiculous.

 

[Shogmaster]

Call it PS VitaMax and dont give it any expectations of running PS6 games, I say.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Less of an issue, how?

What was the issue with Series S/X?

Devs had the issues. This will be bigger headache than that.

The guy in the video knows more than me, so just listen to the part