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[vaibhavpisal]

You're saying $1200-$1500 will only seem high depending on PS6 pricing?

Trust me. This speculated pricing is HIGH.

It is high. All electronics are expensive these days. And last a long time. Can be justified by some.

Especially if competition is not that much cheaper.

 

[Steve Holt]

It is high. All electronics are expensive these days. And last a long time. Can be justified by some.

Especially if competition is not that much cheaper.

I don't think the competition will go anywhere close to those figures tbh.

PlayStation relies on a big install base. They need people to buy it. Hence why the consoles are subsidised heavily, to get them to a reasonable price point.

PS5Pro is obviously for the less casual audience, and maybe they aren't subsidising that at all.

 

[Bojji]

I don't think the competition will go anywhere close to those figures tbh.

PlayStation relies on a big install base. They need people to buy it. Hence why the consoles are subsidised heavily, to get them to a reasonable price point.

PS5Pro is obviously for the less casual audience, and maybe they aren't subsidising that at all.

I think days of clean cut generational changes are over.

Even with PS5 migration of PS4 users wasn't that fast and console was "cheap", cross gen lasted for years. I guess Sony will just sell PS5 and treat PS6 as high end option, two-three years after launch they may start treating it as their main device and lower prices significantly (BoM will be lower as well).

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I don't think the competition will go anywhere close to those figures tbh.

PlayStation relies on a big install base. They need people to buy it. Hence why the consoles are subsidised heavily, to get them to a reasonable price point.

PS5Pro is obviously for the less casual audience, and maybe they aren't subsidising that at all.

How much are you expecting PS6 to be? Am thinking $800-900. Both will be expensive.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Won't see 25%

 

[scoobidoo112]

If this thing costs anything close to what people are suggesting, it better offer full BC with previous Xbox generations.

 

[kevboard]

If this thing costs anything close to what people are suggesting, it better offer full BC with previous Xbox generations.

depending on how easy you can sideload stuff, it will be back compat by the simple fact that Xenia and Xemu exist.

 

[Steve Holt]

How much are you expecting PS6 to be? Am thinking $800-900. Both will be expensive.

I think it will be around $100 more than whatever the price is of the base PS5 at that moment in time.

I think the guys who are calculating the numbers are going to have a really difficult time with this.

 

[mckmas8808]

Free MP is the bigger deal than Steam itself.

Not even close .

And we aren't even sure that's what MS will do with Helix.

 

[Bert Big Balls]

Irrelevant. PS will sell more regardless.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

I think it will be around $100 more than whatever the price is of the base PS5 at that moment in time.

It's going to be more like $300 more.

 

[ExtendEmbraceExtinguish]

- I don't think MS knows where they see the gaming industry going. They are just treading water, trying not to sink. Hence, why they fired their last CEO and hired a new one with no expirence.
- Is Sony launching against Helix? What do you mean? Do you mean, as in why is Sony launching in the same year as Helix?

I disagree.

They clearly knew about hardware issues regarding pricing and scaling of ps5/series.
I don't think they are worried about ps the way fanboys make it; as we are no longer in an age where pc is neglected (ports) and exclusivity is going to be difficult due to rising costs of game development.

Regarding Asha Sharma, I think it's interesting they cancelled the everything is an Xbox slogan while helix/oem/potential tiers point to the same thing.

The only endgame of that strategy is dumping various tiers of hardware to gamers at different price to performance levels but it fails if you cannot explain it to them. Alternatively they can unite the windows ecosystem, a revamped windows store and have their games at a discount vs other storefronts. What windows store is missing is an identity vs steam/epic/gog.

Yes launching on the same year vs helix instead of waiting makes me question if there is more to msft strategy than what enthusiast gamers can perceive.
I do believe a window gaming ecosystem tied to various devices, free online and exclusives can be a threat to traditional consoles (closed).

 

[mckmas8808]

Can't really compare the pricing until we know the plans for each on MP paywall imo. Because if one drops it and the other doesn't then that is a factor to consider.

I'm so shocked many here seem to forget that Microsoft makes ALOT of money with a MP paywall. If they make MP free, wouldn't they have to raise the price of GamePass? Microsoft makes at least $250 million per month on console GamePass.

How could they make that work?

 

[reinking]

I'm so shocked many here seem to forget that Microsoft makes ALOT of money with a MP paywall. If they make MP free, wouldn't they have to raise the price of GamePass? Microsoft makes at least $250 million per month on console GamePass.

How could they make that work?

Even the rumored advertising free version that leaked was ridiculous. If I remember correctly it was going to have extreme limits. I just don't see MS deciding to go all in on Xbox again and drop fees for MP. They would spend too much money on one hand and miss out on too much money on the other. We will see though. Hopefully soon.

 

[SupremeJ]

I'm so shocked many here seem to forget that Microsoft makes ALOT of money with a MP paywall. If they make MP free, wouldn't they have to raise the price of GamePass? Microsoft makes at least $250 million per month on console GamePass.

How could they make that work?

In a few weeks they will lower the price and introduce more tiers, the only way they can reach more customers. PC = XBOX. Multiplayer will be free.

 

[Jinxed]

25% more power, 90% less sales

 

[GoldenEye98]

I'm so shocked many here seem to forget that Microsoft makes ALOT of money with a MP paywall. If they make MP free, wouldn't they have to raise the price of GamePass? Microsoft makes at least $250 million per month on console GamePass.

How could they make that work?

I don't disagree from the business angle but retaining it with a hybrid device isn't as straightforward.

 

[mckmas8808]

How much are you expecting PS6 to be? Am thinking $800-900. Both will be expensive.

I'm thinking $800. But there's a HUUUUGE difference between $800 and $1,500.

Yes launching on the same year vs helix instead of waiting makes me question if there is more to msft strategy than what enthusiast gamers can perceive.
I do believe a window gaming ecosystem tied to various devices, free online and exclusives can be a threat to traditional consoles (closed).

Please don't tell me you believe Jez when he said MS exclusives are coming back.......

In a few weeks they will lower the price and introduce more tiers, the only way they can reach more customers. PC = XBOX. Multiplayer will be free.

Reach more customers, but at what price? If they make multiplayer free, Microsoft will actually lose money. They'll need to make that money back and immediately. Some people are paying for GamePass, just to have MP.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I mean no one want destroy the others hope but seriously if MS has failed until now why they should succeed with a pc tricked as an xbox?

Because all that should matter to anyone is if they make a good product and it has good games, it should sell.

We need to lose the tribalism. Xbox lost. They will never WIN. They are so far in Sony or Nintendo's shadow when it comes to appeal to a large audience that I bet those guys can't even see them. Being outsold more than 3 to 1 etc. so, ms actually sound like they are going to try something different.

They used to talk power, but they never truly delivered in a console package true power. This thing is targeting that. Massive APU. 3nm. It is actually a beast.

But! Do we have faith Microslop can pull it off? Of course there should be doubts.

I just wish an enthusiast forum could have a little more excitement about ANY product.

I have little faith they can do it. But, at least for once it sounds like they are really gonna try something. Even if that is a 1500 dollar hybrid uber console. I wanna see what that looks and performs like.

And, if for some power that Asha has they someone else didn't and they get the hardware right, they have a good line up of games. They do actually commit to doing some destructive things in the industry like drop paid online and just do gamepass or something. I would like to think it sells more than 10 million easily.

Even a better than series X output and launch line up deserves to do more than 10 million, imo.

Just to be clear, I am firmly in the camp that this thing is a success if it sells 10 to 15 million and it costs 1500 dollars.

 

[playbignbox]

How much are you expecting PS6 to be? Am thinking $800-900. Both will be expensive.

Probably, I highly doubt it will be less than $699 at best.

 

[ExtendEmbraceExtinguish]

Please don't tell me you believe Jez when he said MS exclusives are coming back.......

No. But pc exclusives and older titles with pathtracing aka rtx remix.

Nothing is stopping msft from investing in pc exclusives and publishing them on consoles.

Edit: I really want pt quake 4 as a freebie on nextbox for trolling while reselling it on other platforms.

 

[PlayStaytion]

That's assuming sane IPC per component. RT wise IPC increase will be like 250%!

You mean sane NPCs, imagine AI writing broken NPC dialogues.

 

[Ozriel]

This thing is shaping up to be much weaker than I expected… shame, hopefully an OEM can remedy the situation

You expected RTX 5090 performance for $1000?

Please don't tell me you believe Jez when he said MS exclusives are coming back.......

He's talking about PC exclusives. Including SteamVR games.

 

[Shifty1897]

I would expect Helix to outperform PS6, they are supposedly targeting different demographics and pricing sectors.

 

[J Required]

That gap means nothing if
1: windows overhead eats up all of the performance advantage.
2: the system isn't bottlenecked elsewhere, like split memory pool
3: devs don't put in the effort to take advantage of the power because of the super low install base.

I still don't even understand how MS is going to deal with their users wanting to just use Steam store on the system.
MS needs to get their priorities straight. No one wants cocky Sony.

25% difference is marginal no matter what.

 

[Hustler]

Xbox fanboys: "But what about the TFLOPS!!!" Have we learned nothing from the PS5 to Xbox series X comparisons and how that played out performance wise?

 

[Steve Holt]

I just wish an enthusiast forum could have a little more excitement about ANY product.

I have little faith they can do it. But, at least for once it sounds like they are really gonna try something. Even if that is a 1500 dollar hybrid uber console. I wanna see what that looks and performs like.

This is pretty hypercritical of you.

You were trying to get everyone to boycott the PS5 Pro because of its price. Telling everyone to get a PC for god knows how long.

You're the last person who should be telling anyone how this forum should act.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Xbox fanboys: "But what about the TFLOPS!!!" Have we learned nothing from the PS5 to Xbox series X comparisons and how that played out performance wise?

Difference is that PS5 draws more power than Series X whereas in this case Magnus will be drawing maybe twice as much.

Sony must have decided that it wasn't going to be worth it to do a 300 W console when they are requiring the handheld... and the handheld's already slower than the PS5 as it is.

Edit: Oh and expect a generous dose of Frame Gen.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I'm thinking $800. But there's a HUUUUGE difference between $800 and $1,500.

$1500 is way higher than BOM suggests.

Infact, BOM lists SSDs and RAM as most expensive components. More so than SOC.

Xbox can price match them by using a smaller SSD in BOM. Though it wouldn't happen. This is supposed to be a premium product and will be more expensive.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The rumor is that the Magnus SoC is like 400 mm2 in total versus like 230 (?) for the PS6 die. And it has 2 more RAM chips and probably a 2 TB drive instead of 1. Probably has better cooling.

 

[MayaXG]

PCs typically are faster than consoles.

 

[winjer]

The rumor is that the Magnus SoC is like 400 mm2 in total versus like 230 (?) for the PS6 die. And it has 2 more RAM chips and probably a 2 TB drive instead of 1. Probably has better cooling.

Using N3E, that would make the Magnus cost 240$, just for the chip. And 100$ for the PS6 chip.
That would make a huge difference in the final cost. And then there is packaging, as a bigger chip uses bigger substrate and more connections.
And more DRAM would mean more chips, increasing costs even further. And more cost for the nand.
Then it will require more advanced power delivery system and cooling.
If that is true, Magnus could be twice as expensive.

 

[playbignbox]

25% difference is marginal no matter what.

If this difference is actually proven in practice, I wouldn't say it's marginal. Especially when we see so many comparisons between PS5 and Xbox Series X game versions where the difference is imperceptible, and people still talk about it.

The problem is if this difference remains only theoretical, since optimization, engines, and developers' decisions matter much more. Ideally, Microsoft should use its own studios to showcase that difference on its hardware, but if on the Series X they were willing to release games capped at 30 FPS, I don't really expect them to fully take advantage of that hardware.

 

[RoboFu]

 

[Dorfdad]

Won't see 25%

Might if they can manage to keep CO-PILOT AI shit off it otherwise it will be 10% slower than the PC6 Base.

Microsoft is ALLLLLLLL in on AI right now and they feel this is going to get them above the competition. They want to data harvest for cash from users and their bean collectors don't care that 90% of gamers want all that crap as far away from gaming as they can get!

 

[DenchDeckard]

Microsoft were all in on AI 6.montha ago but shit is moving fast. They aren't slowing down but they are deffo pissed with Scam Altman and they are feeling the sting of investing billions into a snake oil salesman's company, only for him to stab you in the back in the worst business way possible.

Oh, MS is pissed at Microslop right now. We all know that.

 

[twilo99]

You expected RTX 5090 performance for $1000?

If you are going to make a performance statement make it properly even if you have to charge $2000.

Whatever they are doing is a comprising effort typical for "traditional" consoles

 

[mckmas8808]

Difference is that PS5 draws more power than Series X whereas in this case Magnus will be drawing maybe twice as much.

Sony must have decided that it wasn't going to be worth it to do a 300 W console when they are requiring the handheld... and the handheld's already slower than the PS5 as it is.

Edit: Oh and expect a generous dose of Frame Gen.

Require? You just said the handheld is slower than the current base PS5.....

$1500 is way higher than BOM suggests.

Infact, BOM lists SSDs and RAM as most expensive components. More so than SOC.

Xbox can price match them by using a smaller SSD in BOM. Though it wouldn't happen. This is supposed to be a premium product and will be more expensive.

Bro WTF?!?! The Helix chip is almost twice the size of the PS6 chip. Add in the extra cost for the motherboard, cooling, etc. Then add in the fact that they'll allow other store fronts on Helix and that'll make the price shoot up fast. There's no world where the PS6 is only 10-20% less in retail cost than Helix.

 

[twilo99]

So is this supposed to be around a ~500w machine?

 

[Shogmaster]

It's not nearly as discrete (and I realise NVidia marketing particularly distorted reality on this).
Compute execution units are shared (there's no separate pools for compute/shading and AI, or RT for that matter), and while you have specific accelerator ASICs for parts of RT pipeline - all that does is remove bottlenecks 'outside' of compute - and compute still happens in all workloads.
And as mentioned by the other poster - raster fixed function elements also play into this - your RT still has to sample textures etc. (so 'raster' operations) to synthesize the picture, and perform de-noising which is either a shader or an AI/compute workload, further making it all depend on each other.

Makes sense, but predicting how AMD RDNA5 should behave based on RTX 50 series performanxe is like WTF.

 

[Shogmaster]

You mean sane NPCs, imagine AI writing broken NPC dialogues.

Instructions Per Clock. I dont know what None Player Characters got anything to do with the discussion.

 

[Shogmaster]

I've explained this before but MLID is misinterpreting AMD docs wrt performance. He thinks if a slide says "Orion 10x RT perf vs Oberon" it means you can look at PS5 running a game at 30 FPS, multiply that by 10x and compare with 5090 doing let's say 200 FPS and conclude PS6 > 5090.

Okay good. I need a second opinion on Orion and Magnus path tracing performance. GO!

 

[Fafalada]

but predicting how AMD RDNA5 should behave based on RTX 50 series performance is like WTF.

I agree - but Internet does what internet does - this has been on repeat for literally decades.
Not everyone here is old enough to remember this - but when DC was coming out people online were predicting how it would perform based on Voodoo2 cards. PS2 was subjected to TNT2 benchmarks (until GeForce launched anyway), etc etc.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Might if they can manage to keep CO-PILOT AI shit off it otherwise it will be 10% slower than the PC6 Base.

Microsoft is ALLLLLLLL in on AI right now and they feel this is going to get them above the competition. They want to data harvest for cash from users and their bean collectors don't care that 90% of gamers want all that crap as far away from gaming as they can get!

Not with a windows based device and PlayStation studios exclusives.

 

[Bojji]

So is this supposed to be around a ~500w machine?

PS6 is rumored to be 160W, do the math...

 

[sncvsrtoip]

25% difference is marginal no matter what.

will be bigger diff than ps5 vs xsx, probably more like ps4pro vs xox so rather easy to notice

 

[Bojji]

will be bigger diff than ps5 vs xsx, probably more like ps4pro vs xsx so rather easy to notice

Both PS4 vs X1 and X1X vs Pro were ~40%, no?

 

[playbignbox]

will be bigger diff than ps5 vs xsx, probably more like ps4pro vs xsx so rather easy to notice

Just to give an example, I think this difference would be somewhat similar to running a game with upscaling in Quality mode versus Balanced mode, if you're targeting the same frame rate. Definitely noticeable, but not a big deal too.

 

[Shogmaster]

I agree - but Internet does what internet does - this has been on repeat for literally decades.
Not everyone here is old enough to remember this - but when DC was coming out people online were predicting how it would perform based on Voodoo2 cards. PS2 was subjected to TNT2 benchmarks (until GeForce launched anyway), etc etc.

Don't make me feel any older. Trauma setting in...

 

[J Required]

will be bigger diff than ps5 vs xsx, probably more like ps4pro vs xsx so rather easy to notice

Not at all. We are reaching a point of diminishing returns that makes 25% difference very imperceptible. You need to zoom ×4 or measure those 9 extra fps. And with ML and scaling HW .. its nothing really