Saber
Newd Member
Was this the picture in the deleted tweet or something else?
Pretty sure it was different, but because of the background scenario. Her face doesn't change.
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The Odyssey (2026) Trailer
- Thread starter 3liteDragon
- Start date
Pretty sure it was different, but because of the background scenario. Her face doesn't change.
falconhoof
Member
Where did this shit come from? This whole drive to be seen in the media you watch?
I remember hearing about it during the Rings of Power media drive with "middle-earth" fans saying "Now I can finally enjoy this show because someone in it has the same shade of skin color as me".
A) How were you a fan before that was the case?
B) Are you so racist that you cannot enjoy media featuring people that don't have the same skin color as you?
If this were the case then what the fuck was I doing growing up absorbed into Hong Kong cinema, watching Eddie Murphy standup VHS until the tape wore out, listening to Jimi Hendrix and my father's Robert Johnson, Buddy Guy and B.B King tapes, getting together with friends at the weekend to watch episodes of Mahabharat.
This show was so good.
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kpopSuperstar
Gold Member
"We are representing the world".
You are supposed to represent Greece. Mythologies are not comic books, it's woven into the culture and history to the people who built them. As is the case for all mythologies all over the world.
You are supposed to represent Greece. Mythologies are not comic books, it's woven into the culture and history to the people who built them. As is the case for all mythologies all over the world.
Gp1
Member
Was this the picture in the deleted tweet or something else?
This one is from Dune. Duke Leto and his Benihana wife.
The other was this one from Odyssey
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Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
FullMetalx117
Member
Everyone complaining about these side characters, how was anyone okay with Matt Damon? How did he become Nolan's go to for all the movies nowadays. You cannot get as generic and contemporary as Matt Damon (no offense, he was great as Groves and was his best Nolan role). But my excitement was down day one knowing he was the lead.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Another atrocious pick. Everything about this movie is wrong. I love Matt Damon, but he's not Ulyses, the same way Tom Holland could not be Captain America or Superman. (Or Nathan Drake, yikes)
I agree, Damon always feels very contemporary, even though I like him in a lot of things, he just doesn't project an aura of being from another time.
I was more on board with him back when we suspected this was an AI simulation or some other sort of "The Odyssey is a construct" sci-fi concept rather than a straight(ish) forward adaptation.
roosnam1980
Gold Member
It's doesn't really even need to be faithful, you could do this story set in space, after WW2 or even modern times.
But not only is Nolan twisting the 'history' behind the Odyssey, it's also likely, if he is on board with the Emily Wilson edit, that he is gonna abandon the THEMES that have made the Odyssey a perineal classic story of humanity for thousands of years. It's not just that it has action, adventure, and terror, it's that it encapsulates a man's quest to return home, thwart the very GODS in the process, intellect over brawn, loyalty over desire (you can't put modern values of sexual monogamy on top of this tale and consider him a cheater, however).
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I think if you change the setting you can make Helen some weird crazy alien and no one cares. It is the idea that they try to do something faithful and then do some terrible casting choices.
yes, this is the crux of that particular issue. Nolan is trying to bake his cake and eat it as well (which is an expression that, while we all understand the intent, has never made much sense to me).
He wants you to imagine the Odyssey as set in ancient Greece, but then he ALSO wants to hot-swap out parts at will. I suspect he will keep the most negative historic parts (Odysseus having a household of slaves, for example, or Penelope just sitting around waiting for him as if she doesn't ALSO have a job to do) and blunt the most positive aspects (rulers were expected to be benevolent and have their subjects best interests in mind, not be cruel dictators, women in fact have a LOT of responsibility and expectations and their own hierarchical system that operates within and alongside the men, they are not just wombs to be handed around).
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I'm going to do BEN HUR with an entire Indian cast.
Vlodril
Member
I mean Ulysses 31 is an animation. It's set in space. Ulysses has a light saber and Telemachus has a red little robot friend. Still was great (loved that show as a child).
If it's filmed in India in Hindu and that's the cast you got, why not?
Even if it's 'set' in Egypt, I have little issue with countries casting with the local talent they have, rather than going through the effort to import foreigners. Obviously once you hit 100+ million budget, that excuse starts to wear thin, but no one really makes movies for the WORLD. They are made for a target audience, certainly a target language, so yeah, you gotta cast actors who are able to speak the language, or at least be prepared to dub them, use subtitles, or have a polyglot of languages and accents (the european Borgias TV show had this, every member of the family was an actor from a different country and they accents all over the place). It's why I'm so impressed with Mel Gibson, that guy goes HARD in some of his films, fucccccck I'd love to see him take a crack at The Odyssey, I think he would deliver what we hoped Nolan would. Mel's never made viking film is something I miss all the time.
and now I'm just imagining the chariot scenes done as Bollywood musicals..................damn there goes the rest of my day! Who has a bunch of AI tokens to make this happen???
Bojji
Member
Matt Damon is a bit better than Mark Wahlberg I guess, but both of them are so generic that when I was younger I was constantly mixing their names lol.
BTW, Today I was in cinema (Project Hail Mary and Mandalorian) - saw some "incredible" live action Vayana/Moana trailer. Why there are no white, Arab, sub saharan black and east Asian people there, only Polynesians?! This is a FANTASY, who gives a shit that it's set in ancient Polynesia, I demand diversity! leftists logic basically, but it only applies when something is set in a white country
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Yup, though in one of the trailers for LA Moana there are some lighter haired actors, hard to see, but might be white actors.
But yes, you are correct, the brush of diversity can only be put to a white canvas, and that's the hippocritical bullshit part. It's JUST the english speaking world affected by this, and they are a global minority, by a damn mile! But thats where the $$$ is, and thats where the vulnerability to be culturally atacked in this fashion is. No japanese, korean, chinese, indian, turk, israeli, thai, brazilian, mexican, nigerian, morrocan, saudi, iranian, etc etc media is gonna give a flying fuck about "diversity" because their cultures are resistant to the infection.
And make no mistake, I WANT an all polynesian cast for moana, an all sub-saharan african cast for a zulu film, an all indian and turk cast for a film about Mahmud Ghaznis invasions of India in 1000 AD. I ALSO want an all Caucasian cast for Aethelstan uniting England.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
Funny place to get your stories from.
heh heh, that's what I get when my autocorrect is more trained on medical terms than usual
crumbs
Member
Taint a big deal, don't beat yourself up over it.heh heh, that's what I get when my autocorrect is more trained on medical terms than usual
DiamondHands
Banned
Greek mythology has been freely adapted across cultures for ~2,500 years…Romans, Renaissance Italians, Victorian Brits, modern Americans. Brad Pitt as Achilles in Troy wasn't Mycenaean Greek either. The "must represent the originating culture" rule has never actually been applied to Greek myth in practice.
You're so concerned with the race of 1 side character that you overlook the cultural representation of the movie. Ideally if you wanted true representation the film should have had 100% Greek casting.
If you mean from a historical perspective, western europeans ARE descendants of greece, both culturally and to some extent, genetically. Like many countries, the recent diaspora leads to more folks with roots living OUTSIDE their country walls than inside it. Greek people NOW have had centuries of occupation by a foreign invading force, so their lineage has been changed. So the best you are probably gonna get is other europeans along with as many greeks as you can find that can do the job. Even the Trojans, in what is now Turkey, would be hard to find "authentic" ancient peoples because they may have been originally steppe peoples from central asia, then greeks and others moved into that area, then the mongolians, then the muslims. So you can't really just show up in Turkey, hire the locals, and think you are "honoring Troy" because I suspect a Trojan, transported to the modern soil, would think "ah shit, we got totally wiped out!".
There is an entire 1000 bce mediterranean civilization we know very little about that might be some of the origin of a lot of these stories in the first place.
Toons
Banned
Lmao. To be this confidently ignorant.
This is the final line in the movie:
Totally a hateful, segregationist message. Totally sounds like a maga equivalent. If you can find genuine issue with this message, then maybe the problem is not with the film.
That or I cant help but think you haven't even seen the movie if your takeaway wss that it promotes hate.
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Toons
Banned
What did she say thats offending you exactly?
She gave basicslly all praise to nolans direction. And casting. And vision.
Look at that! A beautiful black woman praising a white European man! But im being told like these people hate white Europeans here.
Some of you guys aren't engaging honestly with this situation.
There has been ample opportunities for any of these stars to politicize this like the "internet critics"have. None have done so.
Maybe lower the pitch forks on this one? Maybe these folks aren't the enemy?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Its not her answers. Its the fact that she was asked these questions in the first place. Like i said, she will have to answer them for the rest of the pr tour. And its all her fault for taking the part in the first place. I mean one question was literally about how she's not pretty enough to play Helen of Troy. That's incredibly rude to a woman but everyone's going to have to ask it and she will have to answer it.
Its a needless controversy that will follow both her and the movie around for months, and will likely hurt its box office. Nolan shouldn't have picked her and she should've thought about the controversy before accepting it. Sometimes its ok to say no.
I don't care much about the politics of it. Her casting won't make or break the movie for me. I will watch it day one. Likely 3-4 times in theaters like i do for every Nolan movie. Im just talking about common sense or lack thereof and Nolan and lupita not reading the room. This is not the time to be making bold casting choices like this.
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Toons
Banned
The REASONING behind it was what was wrong. That reasoning, the sentiment behind that, is directly the cause of any trepidation that is cureently associated with race swapping minorities to white people. And that is a trepidation that does not have an equal and opposite equivalent. Not now, and not at any point.
Times have changed, because some people were willing to challenge those notions and change it by their filmmaking choices. Like that black panther comic I mentioned above? That was not a coincidence. That was a conscientious decision make by the creative team.
Because if that isnt the issue here than none of these people behind this movie are actually doing anything wrong.
Diversity is a positive thing for some movies. Its a positive thing for most. There are times when it is not necessary or will take someone out of a movie depicting historical events.
In the case of this movie, this movie is not attempting to faithfully recreate historical events. Its attempting to tell a wildly embellished version of the story using artistic license. Weve known that since the beginning.
Im sure there's some people that believe that casting an all white piece for all white periods is racist. I dont think that's the majority of any one, nor anyone particularly influential.
Movies are made to make money and appeal to target demographics. If there's a movie studio executives feel that will appeal to, they may do that. But if you've actually looked into casting, most of them are neither demanding all white casts nor excluding white people.
If they're a minority in the world, then Hollywood certainly isn't reflecting that.
Source: Source: UCLA Social Sciences https://share.google/cPXxdxzsqEyzyVYNM
This is a study from THIS YEAR. Meaning, in the midst of this era of supposedly rampant race swapping as you are claiming.
Are you honestly going to try and claim film casting is somehow being used as a vehicle for oppression against white people in Hollywood? Even in the closest margin in 2023, white actors got more than 3 times as many roles!
He does not however keep his filmmaking intentions to himself. And he's been open about why he's doing this with this movie. It has nothing to do with points, Oscar's, a scorecard or any of that nonsense. He doesn't need to go to that length to achieve any of that.
Which again, is fine. I've been seeing people complain against this movie since before this casting was even announced. And I've found them to be missing the point even before then. That doesnt mean this is going to be a ht with everyone.
Toons
Banned
Maybe place the blame on the media asking it then lmfao?? The media is often the culprit in driving the outrage in these situations.
All she is doing is her job.
No, I think this controversy is very much needed. Because this isnt going to be the last time someone wants to adapt a story with their own vision.
Nolan has made a ton of divergent decisions with his approach to the oddysey. Eveey facet of its production. Why is she being harped on? Why is it a big deal that she got cast? When we can face those questions honestly we can move forward.
If you're arguing for a world In which Nolan, out of fear of backlash decides to avoid casting a black person for a role he wrote and directed even if he thinks that person is right for the part then I'm afraid that's a world i want to live in.
Id argue this is exactly the time to be making bold decisions. Hollywood has had his fill of safety, of executive approved slop that only several to fulfill expectations you already had. This? This is what Hollywood is all about. The best films of all time, the ones that changed the world, were the ones most decried, most maligned and most objected to.
Christopher Nolan has built a legendary legacy of filmmaking doing one thing: exactly whatever tf he wanted.
May that never change. Good movie or not.
near
Gold Member
Nothing bold about this film. If anything, it's very safe by today's Hollywood standards. High profile actors, marketable names and of course, diversity. It's exactly the sort of thing studios/distributors want because it makes the film easier to sell and fund. This isn't a world changing creative gamble bro.
This is disingenuous, because it implies that Hollywood makes ALL the movies in the WORLD. This is absolutely not the case, Hollywood is an AMERICAN based cluster of studios and they make, overwhelmingly, english first (and almost always english ONLY) films with the primary market being english speakers, NATIVE english speakers at that. Thats about 400 million people, virtually all from the US, UK, Canada, and Australia. Those places, in aggregate, are overwhelmingly white, and stats count hispanics all over the place depending on how you want to skew the numbers. So your chart shows quite a bit of minority representation quite in line with the demographics of the audience, if not leaning more into POC leads than would otherwise be indicated.If they're a minority in the world, then Hollywood certainly isn't reflecting that.
Source: Source: UCLA Social Sciences https://share.google/cPXxdxzsqEyzyVYNM
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
That chart is also misleading because no matter what the BIPOC % even is (add in TV ads, newscast hosts, sports analysts etc....) do a BIPOC % of population in media vs what the real life split is between Latino, Black, Asian, Indian, Native etc.... and it'll be very unnaturally skewed too. Youll get huge over-representation of Black people and hardly any other minority.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I swear, you take what I write way out of context to rage bait me.
Is it now then okay to swap out white historical figures for non-white actors, but vice versa is not okay? Is that the position you're taking?
Times have changed because it was clealry wrong.
So it's okay to race swap a white historical figure, but only if there isn't a shadow far-left Hollywood group pulling the strings? Got it
Diversity is absolutely positive for a majority of movies. With some exceptions being a historical or certain fantasy setting.
I'm sure we both agree the adaptation of Children of Blood and Bone should not be diverse, even though it is a fantasy book?
A story set in a particular time period in Greece.
Not the majority, just the most vocal and the ones who are listened to. You already know this.
If they're a minority in the world, then Hollywood certainly isn't reflecting that.
Source: Source: UCLA Social Sciences https://share.google/cPXxdxzsqEyzyVYNM
This is a study from THIS YEAR. Meaning, in the midst of this era of supposedly rampant race swapping as you are claiming.
You do remember we're talking about historical films, or at least films in a historical setting?
I'm not talking about the whole film industry.
You wasted your time with that one.
Oh my God. I can't
You're clearly an expert in understanding the mind of Christopher Nolan. I'll have to take your word for it.
Now, I hate to be rude, but I don't think you're getting a grasp of my points of view. I don't want to waste your time anymore, so let's just agree to disagree and move on.
kpopSuperstar
Gold Member
Europeans playing Europeans is different than Africans playing Europeans.
Not every little thing has to be Greek around Greek mythology, people all over the world love Greek mythology and it's inspired countless stories. Theater plays of all ethnicites have used it. But we are specifically talking about a film where they could have a white person portraying European culture. Instead they choose to culture vulture and disrespect the myths.
You can't do 100% Greek actors, nobody would show up.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
One thing everyone notices too. Whenever there's a race swap, it's almost always a Black person subbing in for a White person.
I'm sure there's tons of other minority actors and actresses that can sub in just as well. Heck, there's shit loads of Bollywood people who can sub in too. And I'm sure lots know English and can sub right in no problem. Nope. There's almost no Indian people in mainstream Hollywood TV/films or even TV ads.
I think part of the issue with BIPOC's race swapping in is the media companies use Black people as that oversweeping race that covers the rest. So if White people are on one side of the colour spectrum, Black people the other, and everyone else in the middle, then the media companies will use Black people as the group that covers everyone else since not every media thing can have one of each major racial group due to space in the movie or show.
Hugare
Member
Tbh I think Lupita is attractive. Her face is beautiful imo, prettier than Zendaya that's for sure.Yikes! Imagine waking up to that face in bed. If I had to choose between her, Elliot and Lupita. Id go with Lupita
It's just sad that she got cast in a role that she should have never been part of, so people will drag her through the mud for it.
Imagine he had cast Gal Gadot...then the very folks defending Lupita would be bashing Nolan and Gal
And the rest of us would be saying "good grief, CAST A HOT BLONDE!"
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Exactly, how I feel
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Part of that is her doing. But the money and PR must be good enough to slog through it. I dont think the avg Hollywood worker or agent is that stupid to know there wouldnt be some criticism.
But like any job it comes down to what's more important. Money or pain in the assery.
Let's say there was a mythical story about an African country and the king and queen in the movie turns out to be a blonde haired Swedish guy and his Korean wife. Unless the legendary story was actually written like that, it would be pretty stupid to cast those two as lead roles when the actual story has a cast of all Black people.
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I think Nolan sat her down and sold her on his pitch, which is probably a lot like what
Toons
(I think it was him) said, that The Odyssey is a GLOBAL story and he wants to present it that way, even if it's framed as being an ancient greek myth. And you don't really question something when Nolan is involved, probably all of his projects start off as "you wanna do WHAT?!?!?".And when she made her decision it was likely years ago, when the culture wars were very different and the outcome seemed certain.
And it is a small thing, really, in 2023 or whenever this was discussed, but events move quickly.
As if that role, Helens half-sister (both share Leda was their mother) and wife of Agamemnon, is any different.
calico
Member
You appear to have totally imagined me saying anything about it being hateful or promoting hate. I said "if you race swap Wakanda to a white isolationist utopia with the same politics (and pretend such a movie could be made), it would be considered an incredibly racist, ultra-MAGA, America First propaganda piece with a white saviour ending", which is true.Lmao. To be this confidently ignorant.
This is the final line in the movie:
Totally a hateful, segregationist message. Totally sounds like a maga equivalent. If you can find genuine issue with this message, then maybe the problem is not with the film.
That or I cant help but think you haven't even seen the movie if your takeaway wss that it promotes hate.
White Wakanda being portrayed as positively and as superior as isolationist monoculture Wakanda is (literally the ultra-MAGA, America First dream) would be completely verboten. The resolution of the movie being White Wakanda finally 'progressing' from total isolationism to deciding to help the rest of the world from a position of total superiority would be a 'white saviour' ending and therefore also bad.
Bojji
Member
No to mention graph doesn't include LGBT+ push done in the last ~10 years.
Ai trained to support left is probably not adding everything up correctly, but still...
Toons
Banned
No, its most certainly not true certainly, because race supremacists don't make speeches to the U.N. about being "one tribe" and building bridges between communities lmfao. Race supremacists dont believe they share commonality with other races. They believe they are superior and above the others and the others should either be in subjugation to them, or staying far away from them.
Theres a character in this movie who believes that. Hes unambiguously the villain, and the hero kills him.
Even in avengers infinity war, a white character tries to bow before the king and tchall TELLS HIM NOT TO. Where is this supremacy?
Dude, wakanda was created on the 1960s by two white Jews. A society being advanced beyond the capabilities of most of the world is baked into the very premise and there are in fact several similar stories in marvel lmao. Read up on the inhumans and their city of Attlilan. They're all white. They are genetically superiors to the rest of the world.
Elven society in the lord of the rings is also isolationist and supremacist and virtually all white in appearance.
Youre complaining about basic science fiction fantasy elements as if its some kinda attack just because its africans running it.
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Toons
Banned
Also as an aside, yall are going to have to cancel xena warrior princess now:
This is her on the show.
Or Orson wells. For his casting of helena Troy in his Dr. Faustus theatrical performance:
It seems to be that historically, castings have just gone to beautiful women without all of this newfound focus on race. Even going back 75 years. I wonder if he faced backlash for this? Likely. But he stuck to his guns. She was a new actress at the time too.
This is her on the show.
Or Orson wells. For his casting of helena Troy in his Dr. Faustus theatrical performance:
It seems to be that historically, castings have just gone to beautiful women without all of this newfound focus on race. Even going back 75 years. I wonder if he faced backlash for this? Likely. But he stuck to his guns. She was a new actress at the time too.