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[March Climber]

We have come a long way:

 

[GymWolf]

I better have the beach scene 1:1 in the game to the last bit of animations and npcs diversity even if it means the sacrifice of jason face

 

[BlownUpRich]

this is what he looked like last year. not my fault they downgraded it because they are losers who cant even cut a trailer in 13 months. probably jerking off to trans porn all day instead of working.

last year:

this year:

I mean they are all bullshots.

Here are some non-bullshot screen grabs from trailer 2...

Spoiler: Here

 

[SlimySnake]

We have come a long way:

all from last year.

I mean they are all bullshots.

Here are some non-bullshot screen grabs from trailer 2...

Spoiler: Here

yes. we are comparing bullshots from last year to bullshots from this year and the bullshots from this year feature skin shading on par with rdr2.

 

[GymWolf]

Now show me the ass physics of each game.
Checkmate.

If you wanna talk kinky, only one of those has confirmed fully rendered boobs under the clothes...and it's not gta.

 

[H . R . 2]

these are some of HFW's random and main NPCs , an open world launch title !
and I am sure you remember the remarkable facial animations too
just gonna leave them here as a reminder

 

[adamsapple]

We have come a long way:

Not that I'm accusing R* of using bullshots directly, but let's wait for the final game to come out and then comparisons like this too.

 

[alloush]

When Arthur morgan on 1.8 tflops PS4 has better skin shading than Jason on a 63 tflops 5090. you know the downgrade is real.

More ragebait incoming.

 

[Jack Howitzer]

This slop is a fucking disgrace to the hardware market even without the inflated prices

 

[March Climber]

This slop is a fucking disgrace to the hardware market

Beautiful design though.

 

[Bojji]

GTA, 6 screenshots

 

[Jack Howitzer]

edit:wrong post

 

[Jack Howitzer]

Beautiful design though.

Kinda like the only thing they're good at...

GTA, 6 screenshots

OMG you are the insider! Is that you John Rockstar?

 

[BlownUpRich]

GTA, 6 screenshots

Humorous wording there! But Goddamn man! The new Ultimate Edition screenshots from GTA 6 look so garish & ugly in a way, I know it's the stylistic choice they have in mind with it but man, couldn't they come out with much better looking ones style-wise? My face didn't cry, but my whole body was crying…

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Since Rockstar has hurt my feelings not releasing trailer 3, i am going to be posting twitter ragebait shitting on GTA6 as revenge.

Discuss.

Senua looks most realistic. Aloy and Ellie look like Toy Story humans. GTA VI looks like it's going for a stylized human. It'll probably age the best.

 

[adamsapple]

GTA, 6 screenshots

 

[Bitstream]

Great work Slimy, let the hate flow through you!

 

[viveks86]

What do you mean? aren't all these pics overly zoomed to show the skin details?

It's not. They are overly zoomed to convey mood and vibes . Not worth doing comparisons like this. The camera focus is all over the place actually. Like my favorite shot that I posted above. The camera focus is somewhere on the sequins. Not her face. Literally everything else in the shot has DoF blur. And then there is makeup on top of that. And because a portion of her skin is closer to the sequins, you can see some detail and the goosebumps are visible. But even that has some DoF blur

Thought I'll pick up a daylight shot and examine this better. So I picked this:

On top of the guy getting artificial lighting (that's not just sunlight), the moment you zoom in even a little bit, everything looks blurry with bokeh. Even though there is an obvious subject in the frame that you would think the camera is focused on:

Hand is quite obviously out of focus. Nose is super blurred. Teeth outlines are almost forming a double image and makes you want to get an eye check up. The face isn't in focus at all.

Can you guess where the actual lens focus is?

Spoiler

Somewhere here... I think?

And even that's not perfectly in focus.

When they take a shot like this using the engine tools, they should first max out DoF blur with f/1.4 or lower, move the focus exactly to the subject and then adjust f stop as needed. That way you can ensure the subject looks the sharpest. And for shots of faces, that would be the skin on their face or their eyes. A lot of photo modes even have auto focus that does all this automatically. It doesn't seem like they used autofocus here. Even if it's not perfect, it would do a better job than what we got.

Like I said before, this is all amateur hour, not worthy of this type of scrutiny. In comparison, the previous set of bullshots were at least done by real pros.

 

[PeteBull]

Great work Slimy, let the hate flow through you!

He went all in, darth sidious style:

 

[SlimySnake]

He went all in, darth sidious style:

im not finished either.







Shouldve released a trailer you lazy bums.

 

[viveks86]

As much as I disagree with SlimySnake 's claims, I too am pissed.

I'm getting so angry looking at these lazy shots because I'm starved without a trailer.

Like WHO THE FUCK would take a shot like this and think it looks professional?

You can literally see the invisible spotlight lighting up the ground right under her feet. Direction of fake light seems to be from exactly above her head. No wonder she looks disconnected from the world. There's an alien tractor beam ready to pull her up and probe her. This is the equivalent of an overhead boom mic making the final cut in a movie. Just.... SMFH

 

[SlimySnake]

Thought I'll pick up a daylight shot and examine this better. So I picked this:

yeah, thats a terrible screenshot. especially by last years standards.

I have it on good authority this years screenshots were taken by sony developers.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Really wrong comparison. But I will say Skin shading and faces have never been the best in Rockstar's games, barely even discussed as the best even in PS3 days, this is also true for last-gen as well, RDR2 was handily beaten by many story-driven games like Sony's and such.

GTA 6 faces look incredible overall though, but definitely a good distance from the best this generation so far. Honestly Hellblade 2 is mostly a cutscene simulator so it's unfair. Also it's not only faces, from the trailers, GTA 6features the best hair rendering, not to mention the incredible physicality & interaction, something that none of the other games are doing.

Well they had the tech last year and thats the point. You compare some of last years pictures of skin texture/shaders and they look better than Ellie and Aloy. Did the texture resolution get downgraded due to meeting game size? Idk, we need a new trailer to better analyze.

 

[SlimySnake]

Now we know why the skin shaders were downgraded



to add more 'detail' like this. this is on you gymwolf.

 

[GudOlRub]

Senua looks most realistic. Aloy and Ellie look like Toy Story humans. GTA VI looks like it's going for a stylized human. It'll probably age the best.

GTA V's characters ages terribly compared to IV precisely because of that reaaon imo.
V tried to use real actors' faces and now they look pretty terrible.
Niko and Roman still look OK, pretty low res but OK.

 

[H . R . 2]

that'

Like WHO THE FUCK would take a shot like this and think it looks professional?

that's exactly what I said the day they released the screenshots and I was told I was having a meltdown
they forgot they haven't released the game yet and wanted to take some lazy half-arsed GTA Online-style promotional photos and slap a deluxe edition tag on them

 

[Luipadre]

Now we know why the skin shaders were downgraded



to add more 'detail' like this. this is on you gymwolf.

This game is just gonna be insane.

 

[H . R . 2]

Now we know why the skin shaders were downgraded



to add more 'detail' like this. this is on you gymwolf.

and this:


According to Brazilian retailer KaBuM! 'The GTA VI universe pulsates in a hyper-realistic way,' and it's thanks to AI.

'NPCs (game characters) have their own routines based on advanced AI, generating organic random events around the map.
The big innovation is in the integration of in-game social networks: your character's cell phone consumes viral videos in real time, allowing you
to follow Vice City influencers and discover secret side missions through the networks.'

 

[T4keD0wN]

The big innovation is in the integration of in-game social networks: your character's cell phone consumes viral videos in real time, allowing you
to follow Vice City influencers and discover secret side missions through the networks.'

Cool, we are gonna be able to watch tiktok shitposts in GTA6? I already though RDR2 was impressive, but theyre really going all out on the realism this time.

 

[SlimySnake]

5:30 and no trailer.

This is me on day one in gta6. rockstar, the blood is on your hands.

 

[viveks86]

Well they had the tech last year and thats the point. You compare some of last years pictures of skin texture/shaders and they look better than Ellie and Aloy. Did the texture resolution get downgraded due to meeting game size? Idk, we need a new trailer to better analyze.

There is so much INSANE detail in car interiors, leather, weapons, fur and cloth, that I simply can't imagine something as fundamental as skin shaders being downgraded. These are just badly done shots imo, with exaggerated and incorrectly placed DoF + artificial lights blowing out details.

To really get to the truth, we need natural lighting, no make up, preferably open daylight, with exact focus on the face with similar face to frame ratio. Can't be doing 4-6x zoom on one while 1x on the other. All the 3 reference shots that SlimySnake posted of Aloy, Ellie and Senua are acceptable, but the one that should actually be analyzed (GTA 6) is not. Not blaming him as we can only pick what we get. But I just feel we aren't ready for this comparison yet.

Not saying there is no downgrade either. Just that it's all inconclusive at the moment.

Let's breakdown the OG "downgrade" claim, for example. People were like "where's the AO, where's the RTGI" etc. It's all there. It's just a different time of day, different sky/atmospheric simulation and rain from before.

Draw a line across the support beam under the house (blue line). Most, if not all, of that beam receives no direct light and is completely in the shadow of the house. And yet, notice how the right end is brighter than the left? That's sunlight hitting the ground outside the house's shadow, bouncing in that direction (red arrow)

Or look at the car shadowing itself. First arrow under the car is clearly AO + shadow. Second is shadow + indirect bounce. Third is direct light. You can even see a difference in GI under the front of the car with tires in the way blocking more light versus under the center of the car being slightly brighter as more light can bounce there.

Even the foliage being "downgraded" seems to be from different points in the story. Those aren't flat textures. Seeing actual flattening of grass to the ground. May be they are simulating that too as you walk/drive on it over time. Clearly a lot of time has passed between the house being repaired/restored and the shot we are seeing now. After everything we have seen, we really think they couldn't render basic grass? Just ridiculous.

And water puddles missing? I don't even...

We really are veering on stupidity and manufactured controversy. I'm not saying there is no downgrade. But nothing is screaming out to be a downgrade yet. Just different shots taken in different situations with obviously varying levels of skill.

 

[Msamy]

As much as I disagree with SlimySnake 's claims, I too am pissed.

I'm getting so angry looking at these lazy shots because I'm starved without a trailer.

Like WHO THE FUCK would take a shot like this and think it looks professional?

You can literally see the invisible spotlight lighting up the ground right under her feet. Direction of fake light seems to be from exactly above her head. No wonder she looks disconnected from the world. There's an alien tractor beam ready to pull her up and probe her. This is the equivalent of an overhead boom mic making the final cut in a movie. Just.... SMFH

I don't know why their marketing team cunts don't release trailer 3 all their previous game have trailer 3 on even bigger time span from their release date than gta vi current case, I would have preferred they don't show anything at all instead of those photoshoped bullshit screenshots, those fuckers missing with my most anticipated game on the last 14 years.

 

[Msamy]

There is so much INSANE detail in car interiors, leather, weapons, fur and cloth, that I simply can't imagine something as fundamental as skin shaders being downgraded. These are just badly done shots imo, with exaggerated and incorrectly placed DoF + artificial lights blowing out details.

To really get to the truth, we need natural lighting, no make up, preferably open daylight, with exact focus on the face with similar face to frame ratio. Can't be doing 4-6x zoom on one while 1x on the other. All the 3 reference shots that SlimySnake posted of Aloy, Ellie and Senua are acceptable, but the one that should actually be analyzed (GTA 6) is not. Not blaming him as we can only pick what we get. But I just feel we aren't ready for this comparison yet.

Not saying there is no downgrade either. Just that it's all inconclusive at the moment.

Let's breakdown the OG "downgrade" claim, for example. People were like "where's the AO, where's the RTGI" etc. It's all there. It's just a different time of day, different sky/atmospheric simulation and rain from before.

Draw a line across the support beam under the house (blue line). Most of that beam receives no direct light and is completely in the shadow of the house. And yet, notice how the right end is brighter than the left? That's sunlight hitting the ground outside the house's shadow, bouncing in that direction (red arrow)

Or look at the car shadowing itself. First arrow under the car is clearly AO + shadow. Second is shadow + indirect bounce. Third is direct light. You can even see a difference in GI under the front of the car with tires in the way blocking more light versus under the center of the car being slightly brighter as more light can bounce there.

Even the foliage being "downgraded" seems to be from different points in the story. Those aren't flat textures. Seeing actual flattening of grass to the ground. May be they are simulating that too as you walk/drive on it over time. Clearly a lot of time has passed between the house being repaired/restored and the shot we are seeing now. After everything we have seen, we really think they couldn't render basic grass? Just ridiculous.

And water puddles missing? I don't even...

We really are veering on stupidity and manufactured controversy. I'm not saying there is no downgrade. But nothing is screaming out to be a downgrade yet. Just different shots taken in different situations with obviously varying levels of skill.

Yes different time of day and light conditions can even make bigger visual impact than this

 

[viveks86]

I don't know why their marketing team cunts don't release trailer 3 all their previous game have trailer 3 on even bigger time span from their release date than gta vi current case, I would have preferred they don't show anything at all instead of those photoshoped bullshit screenshots, those fuckers missing with my most anticipated game on the last 14 years.

Though I'm just as frustrated that they are getting away with a bunch of images and no trailer, I don't believe anything is photoshopped. Just photo mode. Unlike the E-day bullshots, all of this is just the actual game with DoF, fake lights and may be super resolution.

I think their strategy is to tease people with the preorder and ultimate edition for the first wave of hype, so they can maximize $100 purchases. Then follow up with a game trailer for those still on the fence. I don't think the marketing cycle is over for summer. It has just begun.

 

[Msamy]

Though I'm just as frustrated that they are getting away with a bunch of images and no trailer, I don't believe anything is photoshopped. Just photo mode. Unlike the E-day bullshots, all of this is just the actual game with DoF, fake lights and may be super resolution.

I think their strategy is to tease people with the preorder and ultimate edition for the first wave of hype, so they can maximize $100 purchases. Then follow up with a game trailer for those still on the fence. I don't think the marketing cycle is over for summer. It has just begun.

Yes I know those pics look like that because fake lights/photomode, this for me is equivalent to photoshop, I want actual gameplay shots on normal light conditions which are very few on last patch that why I preferred they don't show nothing at all, by their all previous games standards trailer 3 was supposed to released on May and now we almost on July, what the fuck wrong with their marketing strategy to market a game before pre-orders with those bullshit pics which don't even use good fake lights.

 

[GymWolf]

Now we know why the skin shaders were downgraded



to add more 'detail' like this. this is on you gymwolf.

Check your facts straight honey, other games already render armpit hairs, it is nothing new or impressive

 

[SlimySnake]

The real downgrade in this shot is the grass foliage next to the bike. The rest is mostly time of day changes but the grass doesnt die off at dusk.

 

[T4keD0wN]

And water puddles missing? I don't even...

Puddles are useful, you can easily gauge reflection quality from them. They seem full res and perfectly stable in the old house shot.

The updated picture (likely real gameplay) has very low res reflections and they are unstable, look at the water at the right side. The puddle reflections in the old shot look on par with full res hw lumen with 40+ accumulated samples, very good, new ones look about as bad as Clair Obscur ones that only use 4 and i think at half res. Almost like the bilateral and temporal filters arent enabled for reflections.

Then theres the fence in the background (and the table behind the house) that dont have shadows, so it seems they turn off shadows for some meshes at a certain distance from the camera, but even the close motorcycle shadow is super low res.

Camera is a bit different and theres pretty much no water in the other shot so i wont complain about that.

Let's breakdown the OG "downgrade" claim, for example. People were like "where's the AO, where's the RTGI" etc. It's all there. It's just a different time of day, different sky/atmospheric simulation and rain from before.

As for AO, obviously there, but i think the quality is so low it gives an illusion of not existing on some of the foliage.

We really are veering on stupidity and manufactured controversy. I'm not saying there is no downgrade. But nothing is screaming out to be a downgrade yet. Just different shots taken in different situations with obviously varying levels of skill.

I wouldnt say downgrade, this is just what i expect what an optimization pass to do to visuals, downgrades and optimization are basically one and the same when it comes to rt, i am really not happy with effects in this one shot, easily the worst one out of the bunch.

 

[alloush]

I was told I was having a meltdown

 

[PeteBull]

The real downgrade in this shot is the grass foliage next to the bike. The rest is mostly time of day changes but the grass doesnt die off at dusk.

ps4/xbone grassgate version 2.0 confirmed, every1 hold onto ur butts

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

That's my take 2 (pun intended).
At best the consoles will get a 40 FPS VRR mode.
Going by "more stable framerate", that would mean the base PS5 drops below 30 FPS more often than not.
Wouldn't even be surprised when you think about how much ai tech they are pushing in this game.
Also remember GTA V on PS3? FPS was bad and the game had quite some downgrades.

Yeah ...i would understand 40 fps. I was there for GTA5 on the 360 ...even at 30 fps and downgraded it still felt like something special.

I'm expecting GTA6 to be downgraded compared to the amazing trailers. Typical gameplay vs cutscene downgrade.

What I won't be happy about, and I'm pretty sure this will be the case, is if the Pro version is like all these other Pro versions- same exact graphics settings just at a higher resolution. That is 90% of all upgrades on Pro despite it having much better RT capabilities.

 

[GudOlRub]

I want the tree back. If VI doesn't have the tree back from V and RDR2 I'm boycotting it

 

[viveks86]

The real downgrade in this shot is the grass foliage next to the bike. The rest is mostly time of day changes but the grass doesnt die off at dusk.

I agree that it looks flat. But how do we know it hasn't been flattened?

• New shot's camera position is much higher than the old. Which would make an already flattened grass look flatter
• Old shot likely had rain from the previous night, given the puddles. What if they are showing grass upright, green and fresh after a spell of rain?
• What if grass gets flatter the more it is walked or driven on? There's a bike right next to it after all. How do we know they aren't simulating trodden grass?

Puddles are useful, you can easily gauge reflection quality from them. They seem full res and perfectly stable in the old house shot.

The updated picture (likely real gameplay) has very low res reflections and they are unstable, look at the water at the right side. The puddle reflections in the old shot look on par with full res hw lumen with 40+ accumulated samples, very good, new ones look about as bad as Clair Obscur ones that only use 4 and i think at half res. Almost like the bilateral and temporal filters arent enabled for reflections.

Then theres the fence in the background (and the table behind the house) that dont have shadows, so it seems they turn off shadows for some meshes at a certain distance from the camera, but even the close motorcycle shadow is super low res.

Camera is a bit different and theres pretty much no water in the other shot so i wont complain about that.

As for AO, obviously there, but i think the quality is so low it gives an illusion of not existing on some of the foliage.

I wouldnt say downgrade, this is just what i expect what an optimization pass to do to visuals, downgrades and optimization are basically one and the same when it comes to rt, i am really not happy with effects in this one shot, easily the worst one out of the bunch.

Interesting claims. Will investigate these when I'm back on a computer and can look at the areas you are pointing out.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

im not finished either.







Shouldve released a trailer you lazy bums.

That's kind of a big time downgrade ...fuck

 

[Turk1993]

The real downgrade in this shot is the grass foliage next to the bike. The rest is mostly time of day changes but the grass doesnt die off at dusk.

Maybe different seasons like Forza Horizon? Even that has a big impact on the environment and scenery.

 

[SlimySnake]

ps4/xbone grassgate version 2.0 confirmed, every1 hold onto ur butts

fun times lol. back when console wars were fun.

 

[SlimySnake]

Thank YOU INSOMNIAC!!



p.s i never realized how pathetic the ray traced reflections look. if you have to pair back the model quality in the bvh that much to get it running then is it really worth it?

 

[ChiefDada]

Thank YOU INSOMNIAC!!



p.s i never realized how pathetic the ray traced reflections look. if you have to pair back the model quality in the bvh that much to get it running then is it really worth it?

I haven't been impressed with anything they've shown from Wolverine. It's a high probability I skip the game.

 

[viveks86]

Thank YOU INSOMNIAC!!



p.s i never realized how pathetic the ray traced reflections look. if you have to pair back the model quality in the bvh that much to get it running then is it really worth it?

Yeah shocking that these guys were amongst the first to push RT reflections on console… and have stayed exactly where they left it with SM2.

 

[viveks86]

Puddles are useful, you can easily gauge reflection quality from them. They seem full res and perfectly stable in the old house shot.

Sure, but the new shot has no puddle. You are comparing the puddle of an old shot with… a large water body in the new shot? The water on the side is a boat launch, literally branching in from the ocean behind, hence having whatever reflection tech that is driving the ocean's.

Large water bodies have had atrociously unstable reflections in the trailers already. Remember this?

Does this look like hw lumen with 40+ accumulated samples? It's noisy as hell. Hopefully PSSR fixes it. All we can conclude is that RT reflection resolution and denoising hasn't improved. Also proof that the new shots were likely taken on base console.

The game is treating every type of water surface differently for reflections and not everything is ray traced. Some are SSR and cube maps. Some are ray tracing just to the sky. Some may be SSR + RT etc. Unless we compare puddles to similar puddles, this isn't apples to apples.

Then theres the fence in the background (and the table behind the house) that dont have shadows, so it seems they turn off shadows for some meshes at a certain distance from the camera, but even the close motorcycle shadow is super low res.

These have nothing to do with downgrade claims. Did you see these tables and fences have shadows at this distance before? Can't even see them in the old shots due to camera angle, so how do we say it was downgraded? Game has no RT shadows and shadow maps have already been spotted throughout the trailers. Low res ones too.

And the bike has the typical PCSS soft shadow mixed in with the leaves and grass. Don't know how you were able to conclude that it is low res from a screenshot without seeing it flicker/alias/stairstep in motion.

As for AO, obviously there, but i think the quality is so low it gives an illusion of not existing on some of the foliage.

This is not true at all. This is entirely related to sun position. A lot of what you saw in the old trailer are straight up shadows. Not AO. We are literally comparing sun on top-left (new) versus sun on near-mid-right (old). In the new shot, the overhead sun is bouncing off the ground causing all shadows that receive indirect light to brighten a little, making them gray instead of black, which you are mistaking as lower quality AO. The foliage barely gets a shadow because the sun is overhead. With RTGI, we won't see blobs of dark AO like we did in games before. That's not how AO looks when combined with RTGI, or real life for that matter, on small, sparse foliage. Light reaches there quite easily with one or two indirect bounces. See isolated, sparse grass around noon in broad daylight. After getting so used to them in videogames, I used to think they have no shadowing at all and had to recalibrate what to expect with PT. The old shot had foliage shadows due to lower Sun angle. The new ones don't due to overhead Sun. Simple as that.

Need proof? You can literally see a shadow of an offscreen tree on the right side of the house in the old shot. Meaning the Sun is much lower than the new shot and hitting from the opposite direction.

Another angle so you can deduce just how much lower the sun is in the old shot. Those are long morning shadows. Trailer 2 starts sometime after sunrise and ends with a sunset.

These are just not comparable screens to be discussing shadowing. Assuming 12pm is exactly overhead, the time appears to be 7 or 8 am in the old and new appears to be 1:30 pm or so. Massive difference in lighting conditions.

I will agree that the new shot is not as impressive as the old. But that's like real life too. Not every time of day and sky condition is as impressive.

Don't mean to disagree with everything you are saying. Just calling a spade a spade. I do agree the grass looks flat, but I suspect it has a potential alternative explanation, one of 3 I listed earlier. The rest is all time of day.