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Games take too freaking long to make now.

64gigabyteram

64gigabyteram

Reverse groomer.
Think of all the classics made under heavy deadlines that were rushed to absolute hell and back.

Majora's mask
Mario Sunshine
KOTOR 2
Dark Souls
Smash Melee
Uncharted 3
Halo 2
Sonic 2
Fallout New Vegas
Mega Man 2
Gran Turismo 2
MGSV

So on and so forth. Hell Smash Melee outright benefited from the rushed development since all the glitches created a big competitive scene.
Meanwhile modern developers take 8 years to make a game and it's not even one iota as good as the games showcased here.
It's genuinely the worst part about gaming that games take so fucking long now. Think about it this way.
DMC2 comes out in 2003. The game blows. Nobody liked it. DMC3 came out 2 years after in 2005. They redeemed itself and it becomes the best DMC.

Imagine if DMC started in 2017 and DMC2 came out in 2021 right? Still sucks. You'd have to wait 7 fucking years for the next game to come out with the new development times. That's 7 years of being stuck with the worst DMC until Capcom could redeem themselves with DMC3.
Now imagine if DMC3 did come out in 2028 and it had half the content actual DMC3 did. It fixed all the problems DMC2 had but reverted back to DMC 1 gameplay with barely any meaningful change or iteration. No styles, no new weapons, no vergil, basically bare bones and boring. Modern gaming!

Why do developers need a decade to make a decent game when in the past, greedy CEOs told them to make a masterpiece in 14 months and they said "bet"
 
Does MGS5 belong on that list? Game is blatantly unfinished :pie_open_mouth:.

Most of the rest of those, my opinion is that for whatever reason devs have decided that the same number of people who paid for those games back then would never ever pay for the same games if they came out for the first time now. I mean exactly the same except higher resolution. It doesn't really make sense to me. I don't know about you guys, but if Link to the Past or Super Mario Bros 3 came out today for the first time ever I'd absolutely pay full AAA price for them. A great game is timeless.
 
Don't sit around waiting on them. Thousands of games come out each year, in sure you can find plenty to keep you busy till whomever releases their next game. Or go back and look through all the games that you've missed
 
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Thats not a big deal for me since we are getting new games almost every month so I can play those games while waiting.

My bigger issue is when devs announcing their games knowing the actual development hasn't started yet. I wish devs would announce their games when they actually have something to show us.
 
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that's why the downsizing that's happening everywhere might be a good thing.
the bigger devs teams became the slower development got, and the more boring games got.

the way games are developed nowadays is fundamentally broken.
remember that video by Timothy Cain where he recalled how he had to go through several people just to get a simple line of code added to the game, and it ended up taking weeks when he could have done it in 20min? with the excuse given that he is not allowed to do it himself because they had to make sure everyone understands his code? 2 lines of code meant to test enemy attacks took weeks because they were scared adding those lines would confuse the other Devs.

now image how fucked up this shit gets when games are made by massive teams and support teams that aren't even in the same country as you.

and this doesn't only slow down development, it also makes innovation and creativity nearly impossible. adding 2 lines of combat test code takes weeks, imagine how long it would take to pitch a game mechanic.

you know how bullet time was added to Max Payne? 1 dude saw the slowmo effect the Devs did for final kills and said "hey, let's let the player control that"... bam, bullet time was born.
now imagine that scenario in a dev environment like the one Cain described. basically impossible
 
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uncreativename said:
Does MGS5 belong on that list? Game is blatantly unfinished :pie_open_mouth:.

Most of the rest of those, my opinion is that for whatever reason devs have decided that the same number of people who paid for those games back then would never ever pay for the same games if they came out for the first time now. I mean exactly the same except higher resolution. It doesn't really make sense to me. I don't know about you guys, but if Link to the Past or Super Mario Bros 3 came out today for the first time ever I'd absolutely pay full AAA price for them. A great game is timeless.
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MGS5 is an special case since it was in the middle of Konami thinking "fuck video games". It would take an large amount of time still, but it would probably not feature that dumb multiplayer scene or it would be not such an focus for them, just an side mode.
 
Hollywood Hitman said:
Is there ever just a moment we can be happy and enjoy some gaming? Is that allowed anymore?
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No, you will sit there and listen to complains!!!!
Sit GIF by Paramount+
 
Hollywood Hitman said:
Is there ever just a moment we can be happy and enjoy some gaming? Is that allowed anymore?
Click to expand...
Granblue Fantasy Relink is so much fun. Only reason I'm back on the forum for a moment is because my bud is doing a quick quest thingy that's single player before we go back to mass slaughtering anime monsters.
 
Doggyred said:
All the games you mentioned except MGSV were essentially asset flips.
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...Mario Sunshine... Halo 2... Smash Melee... asset flips...

John Candy Reaction GIF


I guess those Mario 64 assets just looked like that and noone noticed for 6 years.
and all the models used in Smash Bros Melee were also already just there. I mean who doesn't remember the 3D Ice Climbers game from which Nintendo just copied the assets for Popo and Nana over.
 
My mind is boggled with how long it takes to make a game now. The amount of turnover from the start to the end must be staggering. Also, long development means more games get cancelled before they get done. It is just stupid. We do have plenty of games, but not very many notable ones. Lots of slop being made and crapped out.
 
Based in that list, Majora's Mask is a miracle to expand a proof-of-concept to a realized alternative that can match with OOT. If that was rushed, I can't imagine what a proper timeline production would look like.
 
Rogue Squadron 2 for Gamecube was made in 10 months.
Esca said:
Don't sit around waiting on them. Thousands of games come out each year,
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That may be a good thing if you habe no standards whatsoever. The problem isn't the amount if games releasing these days, it's most of them being shit.
 
The duality of gamers:
These graphics suck, do it better! //// It takes too long to make games!

Anyway, here's a live image of the based indie game enjoyer:
Crypto Wow GIF by Gigachad
 
Well, you can go back in this very forum and check for all the thread where folks complained about crunch and the lack of diversity in gaming. Longer dev time was a natural consequence.
 
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TheLikou said:
MGS5 is an special case since it was in the middle of Konami thinking "fuck video games". It would take an large amount of time still, but it would probably not feature that dumb multiplayer scene or it would be not such an focus for them, just an side mode.
Click to expand...

It was also developed in parallel with the engine. It took them around 7-8 years since their previous mainline game and the cost was "only" ~100mil and they made back almost twice as that the day of release.

It was a very different industry back then.
 
depends on the game , making an open world rpg like witcher 4 with high end graphics and a living breathing world yeah it should take 5-6 years to make , but an 8h max action adventure game shouldnt take more than 3 years
 
Yesterwynde said:
Also, I wouldn't say "blantantly unfinished", but you can tell Mario Sunshine could have use more time.

And if Majora's Mask were released today as it is, people would be calling it DLC.
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Mario Sunshine probably, yeah :pie_thinking:.

I think people already complained about Majora's Mask back then, too, but they were wrong and they'd still be wrong imo :pie_open_mouth:. Majora's Mask is amazing and totally worth full game price. You're right that some people would complain, though.
 
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Doesn't affect my backlog. It's massive and growing.

Maybe they take longer but there are way more devs than back then to make up for it. Capcom is churning out games quick af as well as meaty DLC so I'm happy.
 
It's really just production values and scope increases that are at the core of the problem. On their own they add more game dev time, and then require adding more staff that bloat to delay the game further.

If pushing graphics more is gonna lead to longer dev times, bigger budgets, and lower design risk for those 2 previous reasons...kinda fine with graphical fidelity slowing down.
 
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I'd be fine with graphical fidelity not just slowing down, but moving backwards. Same with animation fidelity :pie_thinking:.

Or more games like Valheim that focus on particular kinds of graphical fidelity while sacrificing others.
 
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Just stop making every game so big and long and complex and cutting edge. It's unnecessary.

Set realistic goals and achieve them efficiently.
 
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There is an old saying among craftsmen of every trade: Quality, Fast, Cheap. Pick two.

The fact is, quality assets at the levels of detail and volume of content expected these days are difficult to make. It takes time and a lot of employees, which is expensive. You can help this by making it a short and small game but then people will complain about value. You can cut the number of employees you have to pay but then it takes more time. You can try to cut both to keep it cheap and fast by using AI and various middleware tools but then it won't be as quality.

Personally, I am most willing to compromise on quality in terms of fidelity. If your game is at least like 360 level, that is fine by me as long as it is 4k and 60fps, which it better damn well be if it looks like that. But if keeping it simple in presentation allows you to focus on good design like you otherwise wouldn't be, or even to release the game at all which wouldn't be possible trying to compete at higher production levels, I'm in full support of that. I can enjoy a AAA game, obviously, but by no means do I require it or rag on lower production value games for what was obviously limitations of their studio size or contract.
 
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Durin said:
It's really just production values and scope increases that are at the core of the problem. On their own they add more game dev time, and then require adding more staff that bloat to delay the game further.
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The main problem besides scope and production values is the unnecessary bloat and people who add absolutely nothing to the product. Western companies have been stuffed with DEI hires and countless other positions that are not needed for game development.
uncreativename said:
I think people already complained about Majora's Mask back then, too, but they were wrong and they'd still be wrong imo :pie_open_mouth:. Majora's Mask is amazing and totally worth full game price. You're right that some people would complain, though.
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The good thing is that you can just ignore these people if you work with reasonable budgets and development timeframes. You don´t need a game that was made in a year or two to appeal to every idiot under the sun.
 
Theyre chasing the goal of better and better visuals. I remain willing to bet that the "ordinary" gamer doesn't care as much about this as the devs and publishers think they do.

Revert to early ps4-level graphics and push for higher and higher framerates. Game will still be pretty, take less time to make and perform in a way that makes it tangibly better to play.
 
Dice said:
There is an old saying among craftsmen of every trade: Quality, Fast, Cheap. Pick two.

The fact is, quality assets at the levels of detail and volume of content expected these days are difficult to make. It takes time and a lot of employees, which is expensive. You can help this by making it a short and small game but then people will complain about value. You can cut the number of employees you have to pay but then it takes more time. You can try to cut both to keep it cheap and fast by using AI and various middleware tools but then it won't be as quality.
Click to expand...
Quallity has nothing to do with detail or high end graphics though. You can make visually appealing games by other means. A convincing artstyle for example. There are plenty of successful games that have essentially PS2/3 tier graphics. In fact more than enough PS2 games still look great if you just increase framerate/resolution and remove some flaws like pop ups.
 
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