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No Todds, No Masters: A Fallout 4 review/ critique

S

SENPAIatLARGE

Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=WrQs9ugQiOA
This is a truly incredible review and analysis of Fallout 4, and exposes a lot of the hidden flaws about the game. The bit where he talks about the inconsistency of ghouls in Fallout 4, and how they break key missions in other Fallout games was eye opening. The video is 3 hours long, but here are the timestamps.
00:00 - 1: The introduction

20:02 - 2: Fallout 4's Dialogue system

35:37 - 3: Settlements, Psykers, and Power Armor

51:31 - 4: The story, Companions, and quest erasure

1:32:42 - 5: The world, Kellogg's memories, and Virgil

1:58:48 - 6: Skills, Scaling, Leveling up, Combat, and everyhing I
missed

2:28:06 - 7: Four factions, Bethesda, The ending, and the DLC
 
A

AEREC

Member
Awesome...another snarky youtuber over-analyzing triple A games comparing it to past iterations with a negative sarcastic slant. Not gonna watch the whole thing but based off the few minutes I did watch that was the just of it.

I really enjoyed my time with Fallout 4 on the PC and waiting for the PS4 Pro patch to purchase delve in that version along with all the DLC.
 
K

Kralamoonard

Member
Thanks for the video OP. Gonna have to break up that 3 hours over a few days aha.

AEREC said:
Awesome...another snarky youtuber over-analyzing triple A games comparing it to past iterations with a negative sarcastic slant. Not gonna watch the whole thing but based off the few minutes I did watch that was the just of it.

I really enjoyed my time with Fallout 4 on the PC and waiting for the PS4 Pro patch to purchase delve in that version along with all the DLC.
Click to expand...

Well this thread is off to a great start...
 
H

Herr Schwarz

Banned
I don't think anyone should need 3 hours of video time to figure out why Fallout 4 sucks.

It should of been called Rage 2 in which it would of been received much better.
 
B

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
AEREC said:
Awesome...another snarky youtuber over-analyzing triple A games comparing it to past iterations with a negative sarcastic slant. Not gonna watch the whole thing but based off the few minutes I did watch that was the just of it.

I really enjoyed my time with Fallout 4 on the PC and waiting for the PS4 Pro patch to purchase delve in that version along with all the DLC.
Click to expand...

So youre not gonna refute anything he says just pontificate on how truly awesome Fallout 4 is cause FEELINGS
 
A

AEREC

Member
BlueTsunami said:
So youre not gonna refute anything he says just pontificate on how truly awesome Fallout 4 is cause FEELINGS
Click to expand...

Guess not, definitely dont care enough to take the time to watch a 3 hour video and argue against his points. Anyways, just saying I enjoyed the game. Fallout 4 gets way too much hate around here for how incredible a game it was.
 
D

Devilgunman

Member
I love that the guy immediately stated at the beginning of the video that if you don't have time or patience to watch then leave now. I was like "okey?....."


Maybe I'll give it a shot another time.
 
Z

Zombie James

Banned
Any video that exposes Bethesda and Fallout 4 is a video I can get behind. The only way Bethesda is going to change is if it effects their bottom line and the more people are aware of what they're doing, the better chance there is of that happening.

Looking forward to sinking into this.
 
1

120v

Member
i've been watching this off and on all week. still only halfway through it lol

seems like "critiquing" Fallout 4 has become a cottage industry for youtubers. i need to go back to the game to see if it's really all that bad... i was disappointed but all in all i had fun
 
S

SENPAIatLARGE

Banned
AEREC said:
Guess not, definitely dont care enough to take the time to watch a 3 hour video and argue against his points. Anyways, just saying I enjoyed the game. Fallout 4 gets way too much hate around here for how incredible a game it was.
Click to expand...
A little gem from the video that you will never see:
There is a ghoul boy in the refrigerator that survived for 200 years without food or water. This actively takes a dump on one of the best quests in Fallout 2, where you struggle with the moral dilemma of taking a water purifier from necropolis a ghoul city. If they didn't need water in the first place, why did they resist when you came for the purifier?
Also, the dialogue wheel is a downgrade from fallout 3 and new Vegas in every way.
 
G

Garrett Hawke

Member
Zombie James said:
Any video that exposes Bethesda and Fallout 4 is a video I can get behind. The only way Bethesda is going to change is if it effects their bottom line and the more people are aware of what they're doing, the better chance there is of that happening.

Looking forward to sinking into this.
Click to expand...
Ayyyyy

Angry videos on YouTube is not going to affect their bottom line in any way at all.

In fact, Bethesda have recently taken steps in a direction that suggests they no longer care about critique at all so I don't know why you'd expect anything to change considering how much FO4 sold.
 
N

Nabbis

Member
AEREC said:
Guess not, definitely dont care enough to take the time to watch a 3 hour video and argue against his points. Anyways, just saying I enjoyed the game. Fallout 4 gets way too much hate around here for how incredible a game it was.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not but there is an actual marketing department that pays people for shilling, no need to do it for free.
 
T

Turin Turambar

Member
AEREC said:
Awesome...another snarky youtuber over-analyzing triple A games comparing it to past iterations with a negative sarcastic slant. Not gonna watch the whole thing but based off the few minutes I did watch that was the just of it.

I really enjoyed my time with Fallout 4 on the PC and waiting for the PS4 Pro patch to purchase delve in that version along with all the DLC.
Click to expand...

What sarcastic slant? The video seems pretty 'straight' in how he criticizes the game.
 
T

Truant

Member
AEREC said:
Awesome...another snarky youtuber over-analyzing triple A games comparing it to past iterations with a negative sarcastic slant. Not gonna watch the whole thing but based off the few minutes I did watch that was the just of it.

I really enjoyed my time with Fallout 4 on the PC and waiting for the PS4 Pro patch to purchase delve in that version along with all the DLC.
Click to expand...

Funny how the reviewer predicts and addresses this exact reply a bit into the video, down to the "I only watched the opening minutes" bit.
 
H

Heckler456

Banned
SENPAIatLARGE said:
A little gem from the video that you will never see:
There is a ghoul boy in the refrigerator that survived for 200 years without food or water. This actively takes a dump on one of the best quests in Fallout 2, where you struggle with the moral dilemma of taking a water purifier from necropolis a ghoul city. If they didn't need water in the first place, why did they resist when you came for the purifier?
Also, the dialogue wheel is a downgrade from fallout 3 and new Vegas in every way.
Click to expand...

Oh no.
 
A

AEREC

Member
SENPAIatLARGE said:
A little gem from the video that you will never see:
There is a ghoul boy in the refrigerator that survived for 200 years without food or water. This actively takes a dump on one of the best quests in Fallout 2, where you struggle with the moral dilemma of taking a water purifier from necropolis a ghoul city. If they didn't need water in the first place, why did they resist when you came for the purifier?
Also, the dialogue wheel is a downgrade from fallout 3 and new Vegas in every way.
Click to expand...

Ya...I remember that quest, it was dumb. Didn't ruin the game for me though.

I may be one of the few that actually liked the dialogue system and voice over in Fallout 4.
 
N

NinjaTehFish

Banned
AEREC said:
Guess not, definitely dont care enough to take the time to watch a 3 hour video and argue against his points. Anyways, just saying I enjoyed the game. Fallout 4 gets way too much hate around here for how incredible a game it was.
Click to expand...


But the question isn't whether or not its a good game, the question is if its a good Fallout game.

Its not.
 
A

AEREC

Member
Truant said:
Funny how the reviewer predicts and addresses this exact reply a bit into the video, down to the "I only watched the opening minutes" bit.
Click to expand...

I guess cause he knows his schtick is commonplace at this point but he's gonna do it anyways.
 
P

Phatosaurus

Member
I don't need to watch a 3 hour video to understand why Fallout 4 was bad in so, so many ways.

In the interest of beating a dead horse, one major thing that made the world dull to explore was the abundance of settlements.
Boring and empty land marks that could've instead been something interesting and worth exploring.
 
H

Heckler456

Banned
AEREC said:
Ya...I remember that quest, it was dumb. Didn't ruin the game for me though.

I may be one of the few that actually liked the dialogue system and voice over in Fallout 4.
Click to expand...

Nah, I'm sure plenty of people liked it. I did too.

I definitely agree with the overall sentiment that Fallout 4 was somewhat disappointing, but I definitely liked my time with it. I expected to be blown away by a Bethesda game, but all I got was just a good game. I mean, I can't really in good conscience complain about a game just because I petered out after 50 hours of playing the game. Definitely going back in when the Pro patch drops though, if only to see the ending for myself.
 
S

SENPAIatLARGE

Banned
AEREC said:
I may be one of the few that actually liked the dialogue system and voice over in Fallout 4.
Click to expand...
giphy.gif

The fact that super mutants are relegated to dumb orcs, is one of my biggest lore grievances
 
D

daxy

Member
I can't help but sense a tinge of irony in this excessively long video criticizing a game that, among many other flaws, is heavily padded with repetitive content.
 
T

Tinfoilhatsron

Banned
AEREC said:
Guess not, definitely dont care enough to take the time to watch a 3 hour video and argue against his points. Anyways, just saying I enjoyed the game. Fallout 4 gets way too much hate around here for how incredible a game it was.
Click to expand...
So you aren't going to watch any of the video. Then why the fuck are you here shitposting? We don't need another F4 fanboy this early in the thread.
 
SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Ok I'm giving it a little listen while working out.

We're bitching about the lack of the player "creating" a background story for their character.

Is this a legitimate complaint? Since when did anyone "create" their character's background story? To my knowledge you're usually given a set of stories created by the developer. Not the player.
 
S

Spyware

Member
NinjaTehFish said:
But the question isn't whether or not its a good game, the question is if its a good Fallout game.

Its not.
Click to expand...
Says who?
I mean, that's total subjectivity.
What is "Fallout"? For some it needs to be isometric. For some the lore has to be followed to the tiniest of detail. To some it just means a setting.

I think Fallout 4 is a good modern Fallout game. Of course it's not Fallout 2+2, it's a Bethesda game. Anyone expecting anything aside from what we got must live under a rock.
 
D

DXMGT

Banned
Zombie James said:
Any video that exposes Bethesda and Fallout 4 is a video I can get behind. The only way Bethesda is going to change is if it effects their bottom line and the more people are aware of what they're doing, the better chance there is of that happening.

Looking forward to sinking into this.
Click to expand...

lTnQvY.gif
 
A

Admodieus

Member
Fallout 4 is never going to be on a "best of" list and the dialogue system was definitely a step backwards, but I enjoyed my time with the game. However we have reached the part of its lifecycle where it is fashionable to just beat the game into the ground critically, as seen with Bioshock Infinite, Twilight Princess, and Dragon Age Inquisition. It's almost like gamers have to prove their street cred establishing how much better older games in a franchise were.
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
AEREC said:
Guess not, definitely dont care enough to take the time to watch a 3 hour video and argue against his points. Anyways, just saying I enjoyed the game. Fallout 4 gets way too much hate around here for how incredible a game it was.
Click to expand...

Problem was that it was the fourth Fallout game and was a pretty lame iteration on the past titles with tons of regressive ideas that sapped a lot of what made the past games special for some more shoot bang.
 
K

Kyari

Member
ShinUltramanJ said:
Ok I'm giving it a little listen while working out.

We're bitching about the lack of the player "creating" a background story for their character.

Is this a legitimate complaint? Since when did anyone "create" their character's background story? To my knowledge you're usually given a set of stories created by the developer. Not the player.
Click to expand...

I think the major complaint there is that the setup in previous Fallout games was a little more open. You had a goal and a vague back story, but never something so life defining as "You're married in a heterosexual relationship and you have a child you care about, if you're male you were a soldier and if you're female you were a lawyer.". Previously it was just a case of "You grew up in a vault/small village/your dad is Liam Neeson, go"

As much as I loved Fallout 4, it definitely breaks your own sense of immersion if you're the type to roleplay your own characrer. It hamstrings what you can/can't invent as parts of your own backstory, and while you can ignore it for the vast majority of the game - every time you hit a main story quest your character has a whiplash moment of character regression where they suddenly turn into Story Main Character and react totally differently to everything they've seen/done up till that point.

The narrative flow of you, the protagonist, completely breaks down every time a main story quest starts and it only gets worse the longer you wait to do it. Its like they designed the main story to be shotgunned immediately upon leaving the vault under the assumption that everyone would mainline that part of the game for 5-6 hours to watch their character progress as the Man/Woman Out of Time, and then go back to the open world afterwards where they're nonchallant and well adjusted to their surroundings, but obviously very few people play the game that way so instead you end up with a character arc that just kind of is totally scattershot.
 
P

Pinko Marx

Banned
AEREC said:
I guess cause he knows his schtick is commonplace at this point but he's gonna do it anyways.
Click to expand...
Critically analyzing a game over a long-form video isn't a schtick, it's something that happens in every other entertainment medium, and it should be welcome. These things, in my eyes, are important to the maturation of our hobby. We need people to deeply analyze and critique games and every aspect of them, just like movie critics might deeply analyze and critique a film for its visual language, it's writing, it's score, etc.
You liked FO4, that's OK. A lot of people didn't, that's also OK. Just because you like something and the general consensus is against you doesn't give you license to whine like you are. Don't watch the video and move on with your life.
 
C

Crixus

Member
SENPAIatLARGE said:
Also, the dialogue wheel is a downgrade from fallout 3 and new Vegas in every way.
Click to expand...
I don't dislike the wheel mechanics per se, it's just the writing itself that is disappointing. I think the wheel shows they wanted a more BioWare-sque feel to their characters and dialogue, the voiced protagonist being another indicator, but they forgot to put enough "meat" behind the wheel.

I would keep the wheel for the next Fallout (not the next TES though) and create better dialogue options with meaningful distinctions and many skill (or perk, or whatever stats will survive by then) checks.
One thing that I LOVE about this dialogue system, compared to other BGS games, is how natural it flows, get in and out of dialogue so easy. Whether they keep the wheel system or not, I hope they don't go back to a dialogue screen that locks the player.
 
S

Sotha_Sil

Member
Heckler456 said:
Nah, I'm sure plenty of people liked it. I did too.

I definitely agree with the overall sentiment that Fallout 4 was somewhat disappointing, but I definitely liked my time with it. I expected to be blown away by a Bethesda game, but all I got was just a good game. I mean, I can't really in good conscience complain about a game just because I petered out after 50 hours of playing the game. Definitely going back in when the Pro patch drops though, if only to see the ending for myself.
Click to expand...

I'm much the same way. I enjoyed playing Fallout 4, despite a launddy list of faults. It hurts seeing Fallout reduced to dumb fun, but at least I had fun.
 
B

Bluth54

Member
Thanks OP I'll have to watch this over the next few days. I always love to see content like this on YouTube.
 
S

Strax

Member
Here the thing

He makes good points at times but they are drowned out by his childlike stubborn attitude. If the rest of the video is like the first 30 mins it could be down cut in half just by removing his hurt feelings.
 
I

inky

Member
Crixus said:
I don't dislike the wheel mechanics per se, it's just the writing itself that is disappointing. I think the wheel shows they wanted a more BioWare-sque feel to their characters and dialogue, the voiced protagonist being another indicator, but they forgot to put enough "meat" behind the wheel.
Click to expand...

Which is definitely interesting, because in my experience a lot of the people who enjoy Bethesda RPGs don't really want or were asking for that. The sales difference might be explained by the sandbox qualities more than the dialogue system or story, but in any case, it's not something people are dying to see.

Might have more to do with one being cheaper to produce I guess, but that's the cynical explanation.
 
K

Kathian

Banned
AEREC said:
Awesome...another snarky youtuber over-analyzing triple A games comparing it to past iterations with a negative sarcastic slant. Not gonna watch the whole thing but based off the few minutes I did watch that was the just of it.

I really enjoyed my time with Fallout 4 on the PC and waiting for the PS4 Pro patch to purchase delve in that version along with all the DLC.
Click to expand...

Why don't people wike what I wike.

Don't post on a youtube video about a review is what I would suggest if you don't care for those types of videos? Not difficult.
 
SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Kyari said:
I think the major complaint there is that the setup in previous Fallout games was a little more open. You had a goal and a vague back story, but never something so life defining as "You're married in a heterosexual relationship and you have a child you care about, if you're male you were a soldier and if you're female you were a lawyer.". Previously it was just a case of "You grew up in a vault/small village/your dad is Liam Neeson, go"

As much as I loved Fallout 4, it definitely breaks your own sense of immersion if you're the type to roleplay your own characrer. It hamstrings what you can/can't invent as parts of your own backstory, and while you can ignore it for the vast majority of the game - every time you hit a main story quest your character has a whiplash moment of character regression where they suddenly turn into Story Main Character and react totally differently to everything they've seen/done up till that point.

The narrative flow of you, the protagonist, completely breaks down every time a main story quest starts and it only gets worse the longer you wait to do it. Its like they designed the main story to be shotgunned immediately upon leaving the vault under the assumption that everyone would mainline that part of the game for 5-6 hours to watch their character progress as the Man/Woman Out of Time, and then go back to the open world afterwards where they're nonchallant and well adjusted to their surroundings, but obviously very few people play the game that way so instead you end up with a character arc that just kind of is totally scattershot.
Click to expand...

Ok, that makes sense.
 
F

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
AEREC said:
Guess not, definitely dont care enough to take the time to watch a 3 hour video and argue against his points. Anyways, just saying I enjoyed the game. Fallout 4 gets way too much hate around here for how incredible a game it was.
Click to expand...

I'd argue it get's not enough hate for how big of a piece of garbage it was
 
A

Auctopus

Member
It's weird. Besides newer features like Settlements, Fallout 4 seems no different to Fallout 3 in terms of its flaws. Hence why I didn't like it as I didn't like Fallout 3.

But for some reason, 3 is lauded whilst 4 has had this backlash. I guess I'd be annoyed too if after several years, a sequel is built on more or less the same engine but there must be more to it than that?
 
M

misses bull

Banned
Video is good but I liked Chris Franklins and Joseph Anderson's videos more


AEREC said:
Guess not, definitely dont care enough to take the time to watch a 3 hour video and argue against his points. Anyways, just saying I enjoyed the game. Fallout 4 gets way too much hate around here for how incredible a game it was.
Click to expand...
Well it would be better if you gave reasons on why "fallout 4 is a incredible game"
 
B

Blue Ninja

Member
SENPAIatLARGE said:
A little gem from the video that you will never see:
There is a ghoul boy in the refrigerator that survived for 200 years without food or water. This actively takes a dump on one of the best quests in Fallout 2, where you struggle with the moral dilemma of taking a water purifier from necropolis a ghoul city. If they didn't need water in the first place, why did they resist when you came for the purifier?
Also, the dialogue wheel is a downgrade from fallout 3 and new Vegas in every way.
Click to expand...

I never came across that character in any of my playthroughs, and I feel it was for the best.

They should've had another 'Wild Wasteland'-perk or trait, lock some of that stuff away.
 
A

AndersK

Member
Auctopus said:
It's weird. Besides newer features like Settlements, Fallout 4 seems no different to Fallout 3 in terms of its flaws. Hence why I didn't like it as I didn't like Fallout 3.

But for some reason, 3 is lauded whilst 4 has had this backlash. I guess I'd be annoyed too if after several years, a sequel is built on more or less the same engine but there must be more to it than that?
Click to expand...

I suppose people felt that it regressed from 3, which is problematic, and the fact the New Vegas hadn't been released to show how it could be done.

FO4 is the first game where i genuinely felt that my stats didnt matter. That bothered me a alot, since it made me realise i was just playing a janky fps with pause.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
Strax said:
Here the thing

He makes good points at times but they are drowned out by his childlike stubborn attitude. If the rest of the video is like the first 30 mins it could be down cut in half just by removing his hurt feelings.
Click to expand...

This. I've watched about 20 minutes and it's interminable. And I didn't like Fallout 4 much.
 
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