• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Anandtech: AMD's Mantle PC API is the same as the Xbox One low level API

H

Horse Armour

Member
Update: AMD twitter confirm it's true

AMD have retweeted the Anandtech article as being correct. Lol at people who have no idea what they're talking about doubting them.

DIpDvC5.png


https://twitter.com/AMDRadeon/status/383349757428506624


http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn


What’s not being said, but what becomes increasingly hinted at as we read through AMD’s material is not just that Mantle is a low level API, but rather Mantle is the low level API. As in it’s either a direct copy or a very close derivative of the Xbox One’s low level graphics API. All of the pieces are there; AMD will tell you from the start that Mantle is designed to leverage the optimization work done for games on the next generation consoles, and furthermore Mantle can even use the Direct3D High Level Shader Language (HLSL), the high level shader language Xbox One shaders will be coded against in the first place. Let’s be very clear here: AMD will not discuss the matter let alone confirm it, so this is speculation on our part. But it’s speculation that we believe is well grounded. Based on what we know thus far, we believe Mantle is the Xbox One’s low level API brought to the PC.

If indeed Mantle is the Xbox One’s low level API, then this changes the frame of reference for Mantle dramatically. No longer is Mantle just a new low level API for AMD GCN cards, whose success is defined by whether AMD can get developers to create games specifically for it, but Mantle becomes the bridge for porting over Xbox One games to the PC. Developers who make extensive use of the Xbox One low level API would be able to directly bring over large pieces of their rendering code to the PC and reuse it, and in doing so maintain the benefits of using that low-level code in the first place. Mantle will not (and cannot) preclude the need for developers to also do a proper port to Direct3D – after all AMD is currently the minority party in the discrete PC graphics space – but it does provide the option of keeping that low level code, when in the past that would never be an option.
Click to expand...

If this is true, I hope it forces MS or someone neutral to start developing a console style low level API usable by all since AMD have just proven it's possible. Also, what does this mean for the traditional console optimisation that consoles have leveraged to output graphics better than their PC equivalents? Will consoles be outdated quicker this gen than the last?
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Just their speculation?

Highly doubt it's the case. The reasoning doesn't follow (i.e. it falling out of console work, it supporting HLSL syntax).
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
DBT85 said:
Why is it Dice and AMD working on it then instead of Microsoft?
Click to expand...

That is the thing that most likely means this is false. Why would MS allow some 3rd party to maintain the drivers for their console? We already know MS has done work on their Bone drivers.
 
R

Raide

Member
JaggedSac said:
That is the thing that most likely means this is false. Why would MS allow some 3rd party to maintain the drivers for their console? We already know MS has done work on their Bone drivers.
Click to expand...

Maybe its MS working on them with the help of DICE and AMD?
 
V

ViciousDS

Banned
I like how the title says it is the Xbox one Arch and then there is this


But it’s speculation that we believe is well grounded. Based on what we know thus far, we believe Mantle is the Xbox One’s low level API brought to the PC.
Click to expand...



So it's still speculation and rumor.......

Makes me wonder about Sony's API though.
 
K

Knuf

Member
So is AMD making Mantle to ditch/bypass DirectX on Windows, and MS asks them do the same with their console?
Seems legit.
Also, thread title needs a ?.
 
S

Skeff

Member
Can't see this being true to be honest, it would mean that the xbox one API would not be specific to the xbox one APU, which would be, let's say inefficient.

Mantle can even use the Direct3D High Level Shader Language (HLSL), the high level shader language Xbox One shaders will be coded against in the first place.
Click to expand...

This made me laugh, it comes across as HLSL is new to PC's heh.

Thanks for the link though OP.
 
V

ViciousDS

Banned
Mr.Mike said:
It is possible that MS is taking these steps in order to try to stop Steam OS from gaining ground.
Click to expand...

That's unlikely going to happen, I know a ton of buddies with consoles that would gladly have a box designed for gaming by steam because of the entire back catalog of when they used to PC game. Also a buddy of mine that has an older gaming PC doesn't have the time and money to build a new power machine so having steam do it for him at an affordable price is killer. Steam Machine is going to be a huge step forward this generation.
 
D

DeFiBkIlLeR

Banned
Emulation of the Xbox One (and possibly PS4) just got a HELL of a lot easier if PC's will in effect be using the same API code layer.

Just need to crack the encryption of course...
 
S

spindoctor

Member
Wouldn't there be legal arrangements in place (from Microsoft/Sony) to stop AMD from using proprietary technology developed for the consoles in AMD's other businesses? Surely a low level API would qualify for that.
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
TechnicPuppet said:
This is great news, anything that cuts down costs for developers can only be good.
Click to expand...

It won't cut down costs, devs/publishers will still have to target DirectX for the PC, at least until AMD has 100% of the PC GPU market or nvidia come onboard with Mantle.

Which are both just about as likely as each other ;) :p
 
V

ViciousDS

Banned
Captain Tuttle said:
Non tech guy here, what does this mean going forward (if true)?
Click to expand...

the way I see it, it means you can buy a GCN card at the start of release and still get console graphics all the way through if they use this API. Because now RAW power won't have to be substituted like it used to be.
 
T

TechnicPuppet

Nothing! I said nothing!
Osiris said:
It won't cut down costs, devs/publishers will still have to target DirectX for the PC, at least until AMD has 100% of the PC GPU market or nvidia come onboard with Mantle.

Which are both just about as likely as each other ;) :p
Click to expand...

Does at not mean that making PC/XB1 games is going to be very similar though? Then they can port to PS4.
 
S

Skeff

Member
Just to point something out, It's actually more likely this would be true for PS4 than xbox one as xb1 uses esram and the original article doesn't really provide any info what so ever other than it uses HLSL, which isn't exactly absent in the PS4 Development, it's just slightly different (PSSL). It is of course extremely unlikely for either.

I literally cannot believe this is going to turn into the next secret sauce going by what some people are posting on here...It's ridiculous.
 
M

Maastricht

Member
Digital Foundry already mentions it is very close to the PS4's API, which also sports the same type of shader language, to make life easier for PC ports.

On the other hand I've initially understood that Microsoft was doing everything through DirectX 11.2, with some extensions to go straight to GPU when necessary. But if they have a similar setup, then Mantle style development can be shared between consoles and PC, and that makes Mantle a sure-fire hit, and if Nvidia doesn't pick up the gauntlett (support Mantle API as well), they'll be in trouble.
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
TechnicPuppet said:
Does at not mean that making PC/XB1 games is going to be very similar though? Then they can port to PS4.
Click to expand...

No, it means that making Mantle / XBox One games is going to be similar, they still have to develop for non-AMD cards on PC, which means DirectX, which is the same as it is now.
 
thebigmanjosh

thebigmanjosh

Member
This brings us to the crux of the matter: what’s not being said. Simply put, what would happen if you ported both the high level and low level APIs from a console – say the Xbox One – back over to the PC?
Click to expand...

Before people start cancelling their preorders, this is all conjecture using the Xbox One as an example to make a case. As someone else mentioned I don't see how Mantle could provide any true benefit to console development if Sony/Microsoft have already developed their own unique API's.
 
D

DBT85

Member
I also thought DX11.2 was going to remain exclusive to Xbone and Win 8. And that recently the MS execs were crowing about having made DX on the Xbone leaner and more lower level. EDIT: Mono was the reference I couldn't remember.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=642427

"Since E3, an example is that we've dropped in what we internally call our mono driver. It's our graphics driver that really is 100 percent optimised for the Xbox One hardware. You start with the base [DirectX] driver, and then you take out all parts that don't look like Xbox One and you add in everything that really optimises that experience. Almost all of our content partners have really picked it up now, and I think it's made a really nice improvement."
Click to expand...

How many APIs are supposed to be on this thing?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

AMD claims there’s nothing stopping Starfield from adding Nvidia DLSS
2
64
4K
Ribi replied
  • Locked
AMD says nothing is stopping Bethesda from adding DLSS to Starfield
7
1K
MrTroubleMaker replied
GDC 2024 | Conf Schedules for Unreal & other Game Tech
2
863
CamHostage replied
Was 8 CPU cores enough for 9th gen consoles? Strix Halo, the prefect console.
Opinion Analysis 2
62
3K
Tertullian replied
Game Hubs Now Available for all PC Players
12
842
Little Chicken replied
Top Bottom