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Monado Blade · Mar 22, 2014

The first writeup I found on IGA's talk at GDC is on Polygon. Excerpts:

Polygon said:
Igarashi also shared his guidelines for making good Metroidvania games. Developers must make it fun to control the player character and eliminate any potential points that would make it feel stressful; this must also be the same character from start to finish, although players should be able to unlock and equip new items to change up the available actions. Maps must also promote exploration, but not be completely free. There are limits, Igarashi said — if the player simply clears a game, maps that have been created with a single path don't promote revisiting. Revisiting areas can be a burden, unless players are determined to unlock every last item. Players that do revisit areas should be rewarded with new items.

Polygon said:
In terms of balancing out enemies, Igarashi stressed the importance of boss fights. Developers should focus on balancing boss fights and making them the best they can be, since "the bosses are the stars of the game." Igarashi shared his rue of thumb for making bosses: The boss programmer should be able to defeat the enemy without taking a single hit. That's how you know the boss was developed correctly, and it clearly demonstrates signals for how to defeat it.

Polygon said:
"I know I've been away from games in this genre for a while," he said. "But I hope things made sense. I want to believe one of the reasons why this speaking opportunity came up is because we're seeing less of these types of games and many fans are waiting for the next one. And now that I've gone independent, I can create things as I wish and not adhere to the company's wishes. If there is a desire, I believe I will be able to turn that into reality."

So nothing new, no Kickstarter announcement.

Banish me for 100 years if old.

UPDATE
Gamasutra article: Father and S.O.N.: IGA talks Metroidvania (Thanks, deim0s!)

Gamasutra said:
His team was asked to make a game within the universe, but believed at the time they weren't "franchise owners" within the organization: "We figured we could do whatever we wanted, so long as we treated it as a separate series," he says.

Gamasutra said:
The team was tasked with improving the game's controls and extending its lifespan, without meaningfully conflicting with the canonical brand. An early significant decision was to remove death by falling, a standard of the fairly grueling earlier Castlevania games. ("we hated, hated falling to your death") he says.

ArjanN · Mar 22, 2014

I agree with the quote about boss battles. You can usually tell if a boss fight is bad if there's a bunch of unavoidable damage.

Monado Blade said:
So nothing new, no Kickstarter announcement.

From what he already said in interviews it seemed pretty obvious he was still exploring his options. It's bound to happen though, unless some publisher decides to fund him first.

Henchmen21 · Mar 22, 2014

Confirmation that IGA doesn't know how to make a good game.

Beth Cyra · Mar 22, 2014

That all sounds great to me.

I agree about the Bosses, they really were the highlights of SOTN.

Man God · Mar 22, 2014

First step is wait for Super Metroid to come out.

Mlatador · Mar 22, 2014

I want a spirital successor to SotN please!

Also, it's time a 2D Metroidvania hit the big home console screen. Whatever it is, I want it on a home console.

The Bankslammer · Mar 22, 2014

I definitely feel like the boss battles are the highlight of Igavania games. They're almost always challenging and rewarding, but generally feel well balanced. So I'd say their efforts in that department paid off.

Monado Blade · Mar 22, 2014

ArjanN said:
From what he already said in interviews it seemed pretty obvious he was still exploring his options. It's bound to happen though, unless some publisher decides to fund him first.

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken he's actually at GDC to talk with potential publishers and partners about his future game.

Hopefully he manages to work something out. The world has gone for far too long without an IGA-made Metroidvania.

Y2Kev · Mar 22, 2014

Mlatador said:
I want a spirital successor to SotN please!

There's been like...6. I think IGA makes good games but I think he should actually take his concepts and try something new.

NIN90 · Mar 22, 2014

Henchmen21 said:
Confirmation that IGA doesn't know how to make a good game.

wait.. what?

BY2K · Mar 22, 2014

Henchmen21 said:
Confirmation that IGA doesn't know how to make a good game.

Those are fighting words, mister.

Ninja Scooter · Mar 22, 2014

I want him to make a new metroidvania with 4 player PSO style co-op.

Monado Blade · Mar 22, 2014

Y2Kev said:
There's been like...6. I think IGA makes good games but I think he should actually take his concepts and try something new.

But he did that with Lament of Innocence and look what happened.

Maedhros · Mar 22, 2014

Henchmen21 said:
Confirmation that IGA doesn't know how to make a good game.

Shut your damn mouth son.

Mlatador · Mar 22, 2014

Y2Kev said:
There's been like...6. I think IGA makes good games but I think he should actually take his concepts and try something new.

Not on a handheld. Like I said, I want it on a big screen. It should look different (not be made with reused assets).
I want a spiritual successor to go all out on the (2D) graphics or some beautiful 2,5 D.
No compromises! Something that really stands out. A clear vision, burning passion and a Kickstarter Goal.

5 to 10 Millions in funding should be possible.

ElectricKaibutsu · Mar 22, 2014

Players that do revisit areas should be rewarded with new items.

Take note, Aonuma! Stop putting useless rupees in chests!

Henchmen21 said:
Confirmation that IGA doesn't know how to make a good game.

rjc571 · Mar 22, 2014

Man God said:
First step is wait for Super Metroid to come out.

Super Metroid doesn't really have that much in common with SotN though

Shmuely Bully · Mar 22, 2014

Monado Blade said:
But he did that with Lament of Innocence and look what happened.

That still had the Castlevania brand to lean on, if you really want to see Iga trying something new try Nanobreaker

or don't, you'll be happier that way

injurai · Mar 22, 2014

Henchmen21 said:
Confirmation that IGA doesn't know how to make a good game.

What the fuck?

I certainly think that Iga takes the appropriate methodologies in creating an approachable yet challenging game.

vilmer_ · Mar 22, 2014

Iga, kickstarter pls.

Moon_frogger · Mar 22, 2014

rjc571 said:
Super Metroid doesn't really have that much in common with SotN though

Hmmm yeah this is simply incorrect.

Dr Stabbingworth · Mar 22, 2014

Developers must make it fun to control the player character

Alucard controlled like a dream. All the best 2D games have great controls.

The contrast between the rock-like Belmonts and the floaty vampire was a pretty great twist.

cpp_is_king · Mar 22, 2014

Dark Souls is the spiritual successor to Symphony of the Night. Its almost the same game, but re-imagined for the modern era.

It's a hell of a lot more Castlevania that LoS, that's for sure.

2345425 · Mar 22, 2014

Mlatador said:
Not on a handheld. Like I said, I want it on a big screen. It should look different (not be made with reused assets).
I want a spiritual successor to go all out on the (2D) graphics or some beautiful 2,5 D.
No compromises! Something that really stands out. A clear vision, burning passion and a Kickstarter Goal.

5 to 10 Millions in funding should be possible.

This would be great. I really hope he manages to get enough funding for a new Metroidvania.

ShinobiFist · Mar 22, 2014

LOL, when he said there is a lack of these type of games. In mainstream yeah, but not from the indie circle at all.

theRizzle · Mar 22, 2014

The same character from start to finish... except for the intro.... where you play a totally different guy

RedSwirl · Mar 22, 2014

Very apt that he do this since so many indies are making metroidvanias now.

Stoze · Mar 22, 2014

Symphony of the Night is one of my favorite games, don't get me wrong, but it has some of the least challenging and broken boss battles I've played. The most fearsome and huge boss in the game, Galamoth, you can beat by just turning into a poison cloud and moving around the back of him. I downed the final boss the first time playing in like 10 seconds, just because I'd actually taken the time to explore and get good gear, so all I had to do was sit there and spam the attack button. There's many ways to cheese the other bosses as well, and they don't take too much thought to figure out.

A balanced boss fight is the last thing that comes to mind for SoTN, because they should actually have some challenge and learning to them.

DracoBlade · Mar 22, 2014

I went to GDC but unfortunately my pass was limited, couldn't get entrance into the panel ::::

Thanks OP for posting the details though!

Maedhros · Mar 22, 2014

Every boss battle in his other games got better though. I agree that the bosses in SOTN aren't really that hard, they are a cakewalk for someone that played the game more than 20 times already.

When I was younger, they gave me a bit more difficult. Specially when I didn't even knew about spells or better swords, etc. The problem in SOTN is that many itens are really game breakers. When you learn about then... well, there goes the difficult.

But really, I agree that the difficult curve wasn't that good in SOTN.

ZeroX03 · Mar 22, 2014

Henchmen21 said:
Confirmation that IGA doesn't know how to make a good game.

I'm no Iga fan, but almost all his games have been good (Judgement excluded). But I don't think he's made a great game since SotN though - sorry OoE - and it's still unclear what his actual level involvement was with SotN. Still looking forward to seeing what he makes outside of Konami's clutches.

And he's dead on about bosses. They should never have unavoidable attacks, every boss should be 'perfectable' by a skilled player.

Stoze · Mar 22, 2014

Maedhros said:
Every boss battle in his other games got better though. I agree that the bosses in SOTN aren't really that hard, they are a cakewalk for someone that played the game more than 20 times already.

When I was younger, they gave me a bit more difficult. Specially when I didn't even knew about spells or better swords, etc. The problem in SOTN is that many itens are really game breakers. When you learn about then... well, there goes the difficult.

But really, I agree that the difficult curve wasn't that good in SOTN.

I dunno, it was a cakewalk the first time I played it, without a guide or knowing anything. The problem is he balanced the game for the player who briskly goes through the game, maybe only getting a few secrets here and there. For someone who looks everywhere and checks out every nook and cranny like me, you would easily find items to break the game, and thus lose the balance.

I agree though, the bosses get much better in later entries.

2345425 · Mar 22, 2014

Stoze said:
Symphony of the Night is one of my favorite games, don't get me wrong, but it has some of the least challenging and broken boss battles I've played. The most fearsome and huge boss in the game, Galamoth, you can beat by just turning into a poison cloud and moving around the back of him. I downed the final boss the first time playing in like 10 seconds, just because I'd actually taken the time to explore and get good gear, so all I had to do was sit there and spam the attack button. There's many ways to cheese the other bosses as well, and they don't take too much thought to figure out.

A balanced boss fight is the last thing that comes to mind for SoTN, because they should actually have some challenge and learning to them.

Heh, there were several ways to cheese Galamoth. Fortunately the later games were generally better about not giving you broken equipment quite so easily. I thought OoE was the best when it came to forcing you to actually learn how to fight the bosses rather than allowing you to brute force your way through most of them.

zoukka · Mar 22, 2014

Zeldavania, not metroidvania. Iga's own words.

rjc571 · Mar 22, 2014

Moon_frogger said:
Hmmm yeah this is simply incorrect.

Errr uhhh no it's not, aside from both being nonlinear sidescrollers they have next to nothing in common. If you pay even the slightest bit of attention to the interconnectedness of the world design, the feel of the action, the way you access new areas, and the way your character becomes stronger through new abilities and upgrades in the two games, this fact is impossible to dispute.

Anonymous Tipster · Mar 22, 2014

Asking from ignorance here, but do they record these talks at GDC? I'd love to see the whole thing.

ZoddGutts · Mar 22, 2014

ShinobiFist said:
LOL, when he said there is a lack of these type of games. In mainstream yeah, but not from the indie circle at all.

Yeah, I can name a few. But how many of those match up to Iga's Metroidvania games? None.

Zarx · Mar 22, 2014

Stoze said:
Symphony of the Night is one of my favorite games, don't get me wrong, but it has some of the least challenging and broken boss battles I've played. The most fearsome and huge boss in the game, Galamoth, you can beat by just turning into a poison cloud and moving around the back of him. I downed the final boss the first time playing in like 10 seconds, just because I'd actually taken the time to explore and get good gear, so all I had to do was sit there and spam the attack button. There's many ways to cheese the other bosses as well, and they don't take too much thought to figure out.

A balanced boss fight is the last thing that comes to mind for SoTN, because they should actually have some challenge and learning to them.

His later games are better in that regard, and his talk was about Metroidvania in general not specifically SOTN like Polygon implies with their title. Not that balancing the game for the top 10% of player skill who explore every inch looking for secrets their first time through is necessarily good design either. Not everything has to be super challenging to be good, tho SOTN could have stood to be more challenging I agree.

deim0s · Mar 22, 2014

Here's a Gamasutra article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/213706/Father_and_SON_IGA_talks_Metroidvania.php

Monado Blade · Mar 22, 2014

ZoddGutts said:
Yeah, I can name a few. But how many of those match up to Iga's Metroidvania games? None.

None? Come on. Guacamelee and Rogue Legacy deserve some credit at least?

deim0s said:
Here's a Gamasutra article: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/213706/Father_and_SON_IGA_talks_Metroidvania.php

Awesome! I'll add that to the OP.

Fredrik · Mar 22, 2014

Errr uhhh no it's not, aside from both being nonlinear idescrollers they have next to nothing in common. If you pay even the slightest bit of attention to the interconnectedness of the world design, the feel of the action, the way you access new areas, and the way your character becomes stronger through new abilities and upgrades in the two games, this fact is impossible to dispute.

It's the map layout, save rooms and open world gameplay with new areas opening up when you can jump higher etc that has caused the metroidvania name to appear. I don't see the problem though, Naughty Dog can talk about how to create Uncharted too and not mention that step 1 is to wait for Tomb Raider or Prince of Persia to arrive first.

Monado Blade · Mar 22, 2014

Anonymous Tipster said:
Asking from ignorance here, but do they record these talks at GDC? I'd love to see the whole thing.

I asked this in a previous thread. Yes, they do record it but the video is hidden behind a paywall called the GDC vault. You'd have to have a GDC subscription or something to view videos in the vault. Costs about $200 or something.

Hopefully they'll release it for free but that's doubtful.

ZoddGutts · Mar 22, 2014

Monado Blade said:
None? Come on. Guacamelee and Rogue Legacy deserve some credit at least?

Awesome! I'll add that to the OP.

Eh, neither of those are up to there with Iga's games. Rogue Legacy doesn't have good level design because it's a randomized and Guacamelee is good but didn't think it was great as the Metroidvania games. Liked both those games but I would prefer Iga's Metroidvania games over those two.

RELAYER · Mar 22, 2014

Stoze said:
Symphony of the Night is one of my favorite games, don't get me wrong, but it has some of the least challenging and broken boss battles I've played. The most fearsome and huge boss in the game, Galamoth, you can beat by just turning into a poison cloud and moving around the back of him. I downed the final boss the first time playing in like 10 seconds, just because I'd actually taken the time to explore and get good gear, so all I had to do was sit there and spam the attack button. There's many ways to cheese the other bosses as well, and they don't take too much thought to figure out.

A balanced boss fight is the last thing that comes to mind for SoTN, because they should actually have some challenge and learning to them.

Secret ways to cheese bosses are half the fun.

For Galamoth you can also get a secret crown that makes all electrical damage restore HP.

As for the first boss, I don't know what you are talking about. There is only one area you can possibly explore and all the gear in that area is basic.

Fredrik · Mar 22, 2014

Mlatador said:
I want a spirital successor to SotN please!

Also, it's time a 2D Metroidvania hit the big home console screen. Whatever it is, I want it on a home console.

Me too but I fear that something will get lost, it'll probably be polygons instead of pixels and analog controls instead of digital and it'll be bad 3D models and no tightness in the controls. :/ Maybe if he hook up with Nintendo somehow, made an exclusive WiiU deal and got help from Retro Studios to translate his pixels to polygons properly?

Anonymous Tipster · Mar 22, 2014

Monado Blade said:
I asked this in a previous thread. Yes, they do record it but the video is hidden behind a paywall called the GDC vault. You'd have to have a GDC subscription or something to view videos in the vault. Costs about $200 or something.

Hopefully they'll release it for free but that's doubtful.

Thanks for the information. I'll have to look it up, $200 might be worth it for all of the talks. Especially if it's not just this year's.

wrowa · Mar 22, 2014

Anonymous Tipster said:
Thanks for the information. I'll have to look it up, $200 might be worth it for all of the talks. Especially if it's not just this year's.

A 12 month subscription is roughly $500, actually. It's really priced in a way that makes it too expensive to justify for the vast majority of people who aren't working in the industry.

Sir_Crocodile · Mar 22, 2014

Monado Blade said:
None? Come on. Guacamelee and Rogue Legacy deserve some credit at least?

Guacamelee isn't even close. Rogue Legacy is still on my to-play list, but being procedurally generated I can't really see how it can deliver the same experience, so there really hasn't been that much.

Hyped for Ghost Song though

Mlatador · Mar 23, 2014

ShinobiFist said:
LOL, when he said there is a lack of these type of games. In mainstream yeah, but not from the indie circle at all.

Yeah, but let's face it. Most of those metroidvania-clones by indie devs suck ass. "Metroidvania" amaong indies is the new "hot thing", so suddenly everyone thinks he can make one.

Anyway, the next Metroidvania by Igarashi really needs to get a decent budget. It needs a graphics/art-style change.

The great thing about SoTN back then was that it came out on the PS1 and took advantage of the PS1's hardware, which allowed it too look & sound fantastic.

This needs to happen again. I want Muramasa - The Demon Blade or Rayman Legends level of visual (2D) awesomeness, or some 2D sprite-gasm a la Metal Slug . With all the hardware power we have today, a game could feature the biggest, bestest, most beautifully animated handdrawn sprites ever created! Handmade visuals with no boundaries!

Needless to say, I would settle for less, but this is what I always immagined a true successor to SoTN or any other high profile Metroidvanai to be like: A big budget, handdrawn 2D sprite extravaganza that can only be made on home consoles.

If a Kickstarter could promise me that (maybe with the help of Wayforward, or - I know it's crazy - SNK/the original Metal Slug Team), I'd be down for 50 or 100 bucks!

EDIT: here are some examples:

atomic moth · Mar 23, 2014

Sir_Crocodile said:
Guacamelee isn't even close.

Ha. I love how people present their opinions as facts. Guacamelee is close. So very, very close. Like, right behind you close.

If SotN had the difficulty of Guacamelee it would be perfect. Fact.

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