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25 years ago today the best episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine aired
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Is it the one where they turn into lizards and violate the Prime Directive or something?
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
TransTrender
Gold Member
My friends were like, 'Holy shit Star Trek is pretty cool.'
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Wheeljack539
Member
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
Brookes was so, so fucking good.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
A timeless monologue for an eternal question.
Echoed in spirit in the Mando ep with Burr when Mayfield was using Mando's helmet switch to talk about lines that aren't crossed until things get messy. Mando having to correct later, and the leeway for others, was insightful for allowances.
Echoed in spirit in the Mando ep with Burr when Mayfield was using Mando's helmet switch to talk about lines that aren't crossed until things get messy. Mando having to correct later, and the leeway for others, was insightful for allowances.
Razvedka
Banned
One of the best episodes of a sci Fi show ever aired.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
I think when it first aired a lot of people (including me) felt it was too dry, dark and too serious when compared to the more adventurous Next Generation, but when looked back on now, it‘s very considerable merits are very apparent.
All the shit they try and fail to do in nu-Trek now was being done properly and very well 25 years ago. DS9 has aged so well in storytelling terms.
Ulysses 31
Member
They had Babylon 5 to compete with too pushing them harder.
Torrent of Pork
Banned
DS9 was a thoughtful look at how a society such as the Federation might function more realistically once you ignore Roddenberry's utopian fantasies of humanity stripped of what makes us human.
Nu-Trek is just a half-assed attempt at grim-dark without 40k's intentional absurdity.
Nu-Trek is just a half-assed attempt at grim-dark without 40k's intentional absurdity.
Facism
Member
I remember catching it after school when i was younger. And then later on in life, when I had immense insomnia and BBC2 was airing 4 episodes over the weekends after 12am lol. They did this with TNG beforehand, too. What a time to not be able to sleep.
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pramod
Banned
Sorry if this rant is just some griping about DS9 in general but, while I agree that DS9 certainly had complex serious storyline and maybe writing-wise DS9 > TNG, but oh my god, I think character/cast-wise TNG >>>> DS9.
Looking back I think that was my main reason for not being able to get into DS9. I just couldn't connect with any of the characters. They are all so attractive, perfect and flawless, but also so bland and uninteresting, and can almost be interchangeable.
There were no amazing multi-faceted, flawed characters like Data, Geordi, Lt. Barclay, or Worf. In fact they even had to bring Worf over to DS9 to save the show.
I guess Quark and Gul-Dukat were pretty cool, but they weren't enough to make DS9 worth watching for me.
That's why these days I'd rather look up the history of DS9 on Memory Alpha than have to sit through the episodes.
Looking back I think that was my main reason for not being able to get into DS9. I just couldn't connect with any of the characters. They are all so attractive, perfect and flawless, but also so bland and uninteresting, and can almost be interchangeable.
There were no amazing multi-faceted, flawed characters like Data, Geordi, Lt. Barclay, or Worf. In fact they even had to bring Worf over to DS9 to save the show.
I guess Quark and Gul-Dukat were pretty cool, but they weren't enough to make DS9 worth watching for me.
That's why these days I'd rather look up the history of DS9 on Memory Alpha than have to sit through the episodes.
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Pagusas
Elden Member
if you only watched the first 2 seasons I could imagine that... but 3 onward? no, its the opposite of that. Truthfully it found its footing faster than TNG did.
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
They had Babylon 5 to compete with too pushing them harder.
DS9 holds up better than B5 I think. But you’re right. They had up their game because of what B5 was doing.
gaming_again
Member
Shakespeare in space.
Torrent of Pork
Banned
I'm just wondering if we both watched the same show. Not a single character ended the show anywhere near where they began it, and they were all deeply flawed.
Slicker than your average
Banned
Wtf am I reading? TNG all characters seem the exact same by the end, even data as he didnt even get his emotions until the movies.
Ds9 literally every character changed.
Op on point probably the best ds9 episode
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Pegasus Actual
Member
Meicyn
Gold Member
Um, what?
Sisko was a huge departure from Kirk and Picard, willing to get down and dirty. One might argue that Kirk was also a rule breaker, but mostly in a “I don’t do speed limits” kind of way. Sisko on the other hand, was willing to do serious longterm damage. There’s of course, the bit that this thread is dedicated to. He also detonated photon torpedoes on two Maqui planets, irradiating them and making them uninhabitable for five decades… motivated by mostly his own personal grudge with Eddington over a betrayal. That’s top tier petty and I question what other Federation protagonist or DS9 character you could possibly exchange him with.
Kira is an unrepentant former Maqui terrorist. I mean, her past is littered with a large Cardassian body count, and she doesn’t budge an inch on how she feels her actions were 100% justified, man, woman, or child, as she viewed all present on Bajor as valid targets. She’s interchangeable with whom, exactly?
I mean, even Jake Sisko got more development than say, Deanna Troi or Beverly Crusher. Jake showcasing a very realistic reaction to war, choosing to run at the sign of immediate, direct danger and later trying to come to terms with his own cowardice was a really great arc for the character. The Visitor was an incredible episode showcasing just how important his father was to him.
DS9 had far better character writing than TNG. And it’s fine really, they’re two very different shows doing very different things. I love TNG and all, but your take on DS9 is just absurd and disconnected with the given lineup of episodes that are (Christ) over two decades old.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Production wise yes, story wise I don't feel it does even after all this time. B5 just has a special place in TV history for what it did (to me at least).
ManaByte
Gold Member
I just rewatched B5 and it loses all steam once Earth is dealt with. Meaning the final season is a bore.
Facism
Member
the only way Data changed across TNG was the "I do not know" spam in season 7.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
When Sisko grew his goatee, the stories got better but even in the first episode... ALL the characters were deeply flawed! What the HELL were you watching?! Because it definitely wasn't DS9!
pramod
Banned
I guess they were flawed, but not in a way I could relate to. I dunno what it was exactly but I just didn't care for any of the characters, except maybe Gul Dukat.
Maybe it was the lack of humor? No doubt they were all written very well and had good character arcs, but I just couldn't connect to them at all.
MisterFalcon
Member
Duet from season 1 was probably the best 'small' episode in all of Trek. Mostly people taking to each other in a cell but absolutely riveting.
pramod
Banned
I think you summed it up pretty well. So they were all pretty much nasty, unlikeable people.
Anyways im obviously in the minority here in this thread so ill shutup and take my leave now.
Not at all. They were complex characters with faults, which made them interesting. This was a direct reaction to TNG's idealized cast, which portrayed a vision of the future largely free of human shortcomings dragging it down.
Ulysses 31
Member
Yeah, it was a shame the way the studio handled it, leaving it unsure if there would be a 5th season so the makers crammed season 4 full of events, leaving the cup bare for season 5 when it got greenlit.
Ulysses 31
Member
Doesn't that include season 6? That's where the federation actually actively started fighting back.
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AJUMP23
Gold Member
I don't know I haven't seen it.
Ulysses 31
Member
You should, it still has some of the best armada vs armada fights in TV history IMO
Probably should rewatch season 5 too for a refresher of how things escalated to the war.
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touchfuzzy
Member
Garak might be the single best character in all of Star Trek and he's not even in the main cast. DS9 is amazing.
Ballthyrm
Member
They also had a whole Episode on Nog PTSD...
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
It was just on TV. I've seen it before but I didn't remember much.
While I wouldn't say it's the best episode of Deep Space Nine, it is definitely in the top 10 or even top 5.
Absolutely fantastic episode.
While I wouldn't say it's the best episode of Deep Space Nine, it is definitely in the top 10 or even top 5.
Absolutely fantastic episode.
What A Shame...
Member
Really wish I got into Trek way younger than I did.
I binged TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and the movies all within 1 year so my memory of the episodes sort of just blend into each other, save for a few exceptionally stand-out ones.
Might have to give this one a rewatch.
I binged TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and the movies all within 1 year so my memory of the episodes sort of just blend into each other, save for a few exceptionally stand-out ones.
Might have to give this one a rewatch.
Vic Fontaine was low key my favourite DS9 character. An absurd character in conception, a holographic agony uncle for the crew of a station that didn’t have a counsellor who just happened to be a lounge singer from the 60s.
But as opposed to being a one and done character he became quite impactful to the crew, to the point that they helped him with his own problems when the time came (even if it was largely a daft episode).
DS9 was a great show, even if it was something that I think Roddenberry would have hated. It blurred the lines between his idea of a utopian future and how reality can actually be, something this particular episode demonstrated.
But as opposed to being a one and done character he became quite impactful to the crew, to the point that they helped him with his own problems when the time came (even if it was largely a daft episode).
DS9 was a great show, even if it was something that I think Roddenberry would have hated. It blurred the lines between his idea of a utopian future and how reality can actually be, something this particular episode demonstrated.
Paltheos
Member
Definitely on the list of 'pretty good episodes' but not my favorite.
Season 1's Duet (one of the few good S1 episodes) is a favorite, almost entirely on the back of guest actor Harris Yulin as the cardassian Maritza. The breakdown at the end is heartwrenching: One of very performances, from anything, that emotionally shook me. Just fantastic.
S6's Waltz is also up there. An episode devoted entirely to deconstructing Dukat is something most fans wanted I imagine, and Marc Alaimo and the writers brought the goods. Listening to Dukat candidly attempt to justify his atrocities and reconcile them with his image of himself as a great man is great television. The escalation from professional rationalization to naked resentment and racism to the sober declaration of "I should have killed them all" is amazing to watch in its horribleness.
Season 1's Duet (one of the few good S1 episodes) is a favorite, almost entirely on the back of guest actor Harris Yulin as the cardassian Maritza. The breakdown at the end is heartwrenching: One of very performances, from anything, that emotionally shook me. Just fantastic.
S6's Waltz is also up there. An episode devoted entirely to deconstructing Dukat is something most fans wanted I imagine, and Marc Alaimo and the writers brought the goods. Listening to Dukat candidly attempt to justify his atrocities and reconcile them with his image of himself as a great man is great television. The escalation from professional rationalization to naked resentment and racism to the sober declaration of "I should have killed them all" is amazing to watch in its horribleness.
NecrosaroIII
Ask me about my terrible takes on Star Trek characters
The only DS9 storyline I didn't like was the Maquis story. They kept saying Sisko was obsessed with Eddington(I think that was his name) but I never bought it. Felt forced.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I live here in Las Vegas so I just kind of love the whole aesthetic of Vic Fontaine.