• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Aliens and UFOs

Status
Not open for further replies.

Grildon Tundy

Gold Member
I'll let the experts who have the flight data captured of these things make the calls on how impressive it is or not and the pilots. Not people like us who have likely zero experience judging a small clip. People can claim they are lying about all of this but to me the infighting of the government tells me there's something going on..

Not directing this at you just saying generally. We are in the dark, that is the whole point of this. They want to bring light to what's been going on that is the whole point of all of this. Hand saving it away as absurd seems weird when the goal is to let us in more regardless of whether the allegations are true or not.

We should ALL want that.
Agreed. That's what impressed me about the tictac video, even though the video itself was grainy. I tried re-reading the article but it's behind a paywall. I recall that Fravor's testimony was supported by the people around him, or at least not discredited. Pretty compelling, imo.
 
I am not one to get starstruck, but if I ever saw Dr Kaku IRL, I would go into full fangirl mode.
I once walked right past him as he was leaving The City College of New York years ago when I attended. He’s… very short and small in stature. It took me a second to stop in my tracks, turn around, and looked as he walked farther away from campus and thought, “did I just walk past Michio Kaku?!”😅

On another off-topic but somewhat grounded in science note - I grew up in the same neighborhood as Carl Sagan did in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, and I once saw a short video of him talking briefly about his experiences growing up in the neighborhood when he was a child; I recognized many of the areas that I hung out and ventured. I take a little pride in that - it’s a wonderful neighborhood.
 

Crayon

Member
Probably watching us is like watching a comedy, so probably laughing their, err, heads off.

I don't believe in humans. I would need to see some hard evidence.. that they can do anything without fucking it up. There's a reason they can't have nice things, you know?
 

Crayon

Member
The crashing, as vallee put it, is absurd. The only way I've ever been able to make it fit is that we are in error assuming that those crashes are accidents.
 

haxan7

Banned
The crashing, as vallee put it, is absurd. The only way I've ever been able to make it fit is that we are in error assuming that those crashes are accidents.
If it’s really happening, they’re probably gifting us their crafts/technology. But leaving it up to us to figure out how to make it work. That leaves our free will intact.
 

Crayon

Member
If it’s really happening, they’re probably gifting us their crafts/technology. But leaving it up to us to figure out how to make it work. That leaves our free will intact.

Over time I thought of it like if I want to make a monkey get in front of my camera I leave some food out there in the shot. They can't resist the easy meal and will only worry about where it came from later.
 
Last edited:

haxan7

Banned
Overtime I thought of it like if I want to make a monkey get in front of my camera I leave some food out there in the shot. They can't resist they easy meal and will only worry about where it came from later.
You mean you think they’re hostile and trying to get us to use their technology for nefarious purposes?
 

Crayon

Member
You mean you think they’re hostile and trying to get us to use their technology for nefarious purposes?

Oh I definitely wouldn't say hostile. Or more accurately I wouldn't have the foggiest whether its hostile, not, or if i would be able to relate to the motivation any more than a monkey understanding a photo op. I'm just saying dropping shit that we find to be a totally irresistible free lunch is a reasonable way to interact with us.
 
Last edited:

MadAnon

Member
It's a grand conspiracy on an unprecedented scale with hundreds of thousands of people actively covering it up, and only a handful of con artists -- in between lying farcically about everything else -- are telling the truth about this.

Or it's not.
I'm just dumbfounded how people don't see how ridiculous this whole thing looks. So you have all these sources with secret first hand information about alien crafts being recovered and reverse engineered. It's top secret info and a tight lid is kept on it. People have supposedly been killed over it. Hey but here you have Coulthart, Kean, Knapp constantly talking with these people and getting all this secret info. And the reason why they don't reveal it is because it would put their sources in danger. Pfftt...

So you have this all powerful organization hiding the UFO truth for decades but it can't track down who those 3 Ufo journalists have been talking to for years. It's so ridiculous.

I'm conviced that these "secret" sources are all the known UFO bozos secretly circle jerking each other for years (Puthoff, Davis, Knapp, Nolan, Valee, Taylor, Lazar etc.). And Grusch is connected to them too. Attended UFO conferences with several of these guys.

This is the culmination of their work. As they have found the guy to go in front of the world and hope it blows the lid off. But the reality is that there's no lid to blow off because there are no recovered crafts and reverse engineering programs. Just a crazy UFO lore they have convinced themeselves of being real.

They are really trying to sell a story how freaking clown Mussolini recovered alien craft, kept it secret for USA officials to recover it years later...
 
Last edited:

Romulus

Member
Its entirely possible that they are. No less possible than any of this being true.

Like if a search is done at all of these claimed UFO locations and absolutely nothing is found. If no physical evidence of a UFO is ever found...

There's a very good chance that this could all backfire.

Maybe that's the play? Get the government to take these claimed seriously only for them too find that there's absolutely nothing there and make it all look like the boy who cried wolf.


I just find it odd all these guys are conspiring in different countries.

This Belguim general uses the same verbiage as Fravor. He says the speeds they tracked ufos would be impossible for a human to tolerate.



Again, there are several other examples in other countries that mirror this and the US case.
 
Last edited:

Tygeezy

Member
I'm just dumbfounded how people don't see how ridiculous this whole thing looks. So you have all these sources with secret first hand information about alien crafts being recovered and reverse engineered. It's top secret info and a tight lid is kept on it. People have supposedly been killed over it. Hey but here you have Coulthart, Kean, Knapp constantly talking with these people and getting all this secret info. And the reason why they don't reveal it is because it would put their sources in danger. Pfftt...

So you have this all powerful organization hiding the UFO truth for decades but it can't track down who those 3 Ufo journalists have been talking to for years. It's so ridiculous.

I'm conviced that these "secret" sources are all the known UFO bozos secretly circle jerking each other for years (Puthoff, Davis, Knapp, Nolan, Valee, Taylor, Lazar etc.). And Grusch is connected to them too. Attended UFO conferences with several of these guys.

This is the culmination of their work. As they have found the guy to go in front of the world and hope it blows the lid off. But the reality is that there's no lid to blow off because there are no recovered crafts and reverse engineering programs. Just a crazy UFO lore they have convinced themeselves of being real.

They are really trying to sell a story how freaking clown Mussolini recovered alien craft, kept it secret for USA officials to recover it years later...
Has it really been kept a secret though? If it’s so secretive then why have people been talking about it since the 40’s? It just now seems to have some legitimacy and you’re aren’t automatically branded a crackpot for entertaining this information.
 

MadAnon

Member
Has it really been kept a secret though? If it’s so secretive then why have people been talking about it since the 40’s? It just now seems to have some legitimacy and you’re aren’t automatically branded a crackpot for entertaining this information.
You are talking about surface level UFO lore and not factual existence of such things. I'm talking about names of people involved in these programs (and not people who know people that have been involved in these programs), evidence of those crafts. Coulthart, Knapp, Corbell, Kean all claim they have these secret sources confirming them it's all true. So who are these people and what info confirms that it's all true?

Excuse me but Corbell's, Knapp's flare debacle after a supposed 2 year investigation kind of screams of hacks who don't know ass from elbow. The sources confirmed them that it was a craft. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
Last edited:

Tygeezy

Member
You are talking about surface level UFO lore and not factual existence of such things. I'm talking about names of people involved in these programs (and not people who know people that have been involved in these programs), evidence of those crafts. Coulthart, Knapp, Corbell, Kean all claim they have these secret sources confirming them it's all true. So who are these people and what info confirms that it's all true?

Excuse me but Corbell's, Knapp's flare debacle after a supposed 2 year investigation kind of screams of hacks who don't know ass from elbow. The sources confirmed them that it was a craft. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
The only thing that’s really changed is the military actually coming out and admitting this is a real phenomenon and some of the stigma dying down so that people with a lot to lose are now coming forward.

The “new allegations” that were brought to congress was essentially happening on the x-files in the 90’s. Having both alien bodies, as well as craft and reverse engineering was all there.
 

Crayon

Member
Super video from Event Horizon. For those who don't know, he turned around from believing there may be no other intelligence in the galaxy (much, much less visitations) to this inside 6 months. He considers the evidence strong enough to reconsider the possibilities.

Anyway, great video that goes through a few subjects we've discussed heavily in here lately:

 

Tygeezy

Member
Super video from Event Horizon. For those who don't know, he turned around from believing there may be no other intelligence in the galaxy (much, much less visitations) to this inside 6 months. He considers the evidence strong enough to reconsider the possibilities.

Anyway, great video that goes through a few subjects we've discussed heavily in here lately:


Man, it’s really strange to see someone actually believe there was nothing out there given how many star systems there are in the universe.

My thought for the longest time that mathematically it just seemed impossible. I began being way more open to actual visitation on our planet once we got better footage and the military actually admitting to it.

I’ll check this out though. Thanks for linking it here.
 

Bartski

Gold Member
Good lord.

Talk about ontological shock. Could you imagine if any of this were actually real? Scary shit lol

m9hhUfY.jpg



nah man.
 

Crayon

Member
Man, it’s really strange to see someone actually believe there was nothing out there given how many star systems there are in the universe.

My thought for the longest time that mathematically it just seemed impossible. I began being way more open to actual visitation on our planet once we got better footage and the military actually admitting to it.

I’ll check this out though. Thanks for linking it here.

I think last time I heard him place his wager in it (he's smart enough to leave room to be wrong), he said a 'bacterial universe'. So that would be based on bacteria popping up here as soon as it possibly could, but hanging around for so long stuck like that before eukaryotes showed up. So it seems that prokaryotes are an easy step then eukaryotes are a very hard step. Then after that, intelligence would probably be rarer still. The compounding unlikelyhoods could push the nearest intelligence out to the next galaxy or more.

The framework for all that was basically using fermi paradox as a launchpad though. I thought he fell into the trap of treating it more of an answer than a question. I've been listening for years, it's a great channel but don't be surprised if he's pretty dismissive of UFOs in any video before this year.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
You're making the logical leap that because there are extraordinary claims being made by a number of people, we should take it seriously. That's not how skepticism works. Present the evidence first, otherwise there's no reason to take it seriously, in the same way that there's no reason to consider thousands of other fantasies without evidence.

The capacity of humanity to enter into mass delusion based on extraordinary claims by a number of people, without evidence, is very well documented.
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Gold Member
It would be pretty cool if we got proof of aliens and they said "We're your daddy" but I'd probably still have to go about my mundane life so whatever

Doubt it. Actual, real, undeniable hard evidence of intelligent alien life would fundamentally change the entire planet irrevocably and forever. Nobody would be untouched by it.

It’d pretty much kill every religion instantly, for instance.

It’d focus our minds on threats from without, instead of threats from within. We’d know there was something in this universe vastly more powerful than us. It’d be terrifying on an existential level.

Folks like to think how cool it would be, because they imagine little green men in little grey flying saucers. Nobody really wants to engage with the concept of what a higher form of life in every single respect visiting us would actually look or feel like.
 
Last edited:

Tygeezy

Member
Doubt it. Actual, real, undeniable hard evidence of intelligent alien life would fundamentally change the entire planet irrevocably and forever. Nobody would be untouched by it.

It’d pretty much kill every religion instantly, for instance.

It’d focus our minds on threats from without, instead of threats from within. We’d know there was something in this universe vastly more powerful than us. It’d be terrifying on an existential level.

Folks like to think how cool it would be, because they imagine little green men in little grey flying saucers. Nobody really wants to engage with the concept of what a higher form of life in every single respect visiting us would actually look or feel like.
I can actually agree with a lot of this. The really frightening thing is now all of a sudden a lot of those abduction cases are most likely legitimate. I don’t think you can spin in it to make it seem like it was okay that they were kidnapping people, performing experiments, and sexually assaulting people. You would have a real life boogeyman.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
I don't think so. At least from my experience of every genuinely religious person -of any religion - I can remember meeting. In fact all of them would either be no change or buff on the faith stat.

Ha ha. Fucking no. Not at all.

People don’t get to say that vastly intelligent, powerful and superior aliens from distant galaxies have visited this earth… and simultaneously claim that their human god with his human son, and their book written by humans made in his image, entirely about humans made in his image, is also correct.

Come on. You get one or the other. Not both 🤣
 
Last edited:

Tygeezy

Member
I don't think so. At least from my experience of every genuinely religious person -of any religion - I can remember meeting. In fact all of them would either be no change or buff on the faith stat.
Yeah, I think the Vatican has even entertained the idea of being okay with higher life forms. I do think there would be a huge anxiety and fear; especially regarding abductions, or them just deciding to attack now that the veil has been lifted.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
I can actually agree with a lot of this. The really frightening thing is now all of a sudden a lot of those abduction cases are most likely legitimate. I don’t think you can spin in it to make it seem like it was okay that they were kidnapping people, performing experiments, and sexually assaulting people. You would have a real life boogeyman.

Well, I don't agree with you that any of those claims are legitimate obviously, and it wouldn't be a boogeyman. Aliens properly, actually, truthfully coming to this earth would be as gods visiting ants.

All religions would die, because we'd be seeing creatures that would dwarf any notion of a human god completely. It'd be like believing the sun was still carried on the back of a scarab beetle, when someone's shown you a live map of the solar system.
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Gold Member
No, it would generate new religions around these higher beings. And Scientology would probably use that to their advantage as well.

Oh, they'd be worshipped. But it wouldn't be a religion, because they'd be right there for all to see. No silly beliefs required. You'd be able to look upon a god and know its power.
 

Crayon

Member
I can actually agree with a lot of this. The really frightening thing is now all of a sudden a lot of those abduction cases are most likely legitimate. I don’t think you can spin in it to make it seem like it was okay that they were kidnapping people, performing experiments, and sexually assaulting people. You would have a real life boogeyman.

I really fucking hope not lol. Seriously though, at some point I became very unsure how the abduction phenomenon is related or if it is at all.

I practically consider that a separate subject now. But it's so intertwined with ufos that I think people could panicked and demanding to know that asap. And then if there's nothing to tell that could get ugly.

Abductions... I feel I hit a dead end with it. As far as I can tell, this is a shared nightmare people have that is so intense it can produce psychosomatic symptoms. And for the record I'm not calling that some kind of pedestrian explanation. That's spooky enough for me even if it's caused by the modern mind watching too many movies. Bugs me.
 

Crayon

Member
Ha ha. Fucking no. Not at all.

People don’t get to say that vastly intelligent, powerful and superior aliens from distant galaxies have visited this earth… and simultaneously claim that their human god with his human son, and their book written by humans made in his image, entirely about humans made in his image, is also correct.

Come on. You get one or the other. Not both 🤣

I agree that sounds intuitive but it doesn't square with the people I've met along the way. They'd still believe in their god/s more than any aliens.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
I agree that sounds intuitive but it doesn't square with the people I've met along the way. They'd still believe in their god/s more than any aliens.

How? Like I've said, god would be standing right in front of them!

This entire thread all I've had is people telling me how colossally more advanced these aliens must be... completely beyond my understanding. That's how they can come to this planet, across the vast interstellar gulf, with technology far beyond anything we understand now.

That is a god.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C Clarke.

I don't want hear anybody in this thread trying to say that they can have their alien visitors and their god at the same time. It'd be ridiculous.
 
Last edited:

midnightAI

Member
I agree that sounds intuitive but it doesn't square with the people I've met along the way. They'd still believe in their god/s more than any aliens.
Well, Christianity would probably just twist it that these higher beings were also created by God as a test for mankind. Either that or one of these beings (the leader) is the second coming of Christ which then further validates the Bible. Then it goes one of two ways... If non hostile then they are the saviours of mankind, if hostile then punishing mankind for all of their sins both under the guidance of god.
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Well, Christianity would probably just twist it that these higher beings were also created by God as a test for mankind. Either that or one of these beings (the leader) is the second coming of Christ which then further validates the Bible. Then it goes one of two ways... If non hostile then they are the saviours of mankind, if hostile then punishing mankind for all of their sins both under the guidance of god.

You’d get some hold outs no doubt (along with some mass suicides, I’d imagine) but I don’t believe for one second that if beings of that unimaginable power are stood in front of you, that many will still believe in the rather small and silly notion of a god of the humans (any of them that exist right now) being responsible for the creation of them, or the vast universe they have a far better understanding of.

No. ‘God’ dies when god arrives.
 
Last edited:

RaduN

Member
Ha ha. Fucking no. Not at all.

People don’t get to say that vastly intelligent, powerful and superior aliens from distant galaxies have visited this earth… and simultaneously claim that their human god with his human son, and their book written by humans made in his image, entirely about humans made in his image, is also correct.

Come on. You get one or the other. Not both 🤣
Watch them.

Religion exists, by definition, in the absence of reason, because it asks you to believe an unlikey fairytale, without any kind of proof (hmmm....kind of like UFOs atm...anywaaayy). So it's unreasonable.
But of course, there are countless reasons (hmmm.. again) why one would believe this, absurd by any metric, fairytale, but this is another story.
The idea is that religious zealots and propagandists will undoubtedly come up with a narrative that fits both the Bible and aliens into it. The ridiculous mental gymnastics will be enough for most.
 

midnightAI

Member
You’d get some hold outs no doubt (along with some mass suicides, I’d imagine) but I don’t believe for one second that if beings of that unimaginable power are stood in front of you, that many will still believe in the rather small and silly notion of a god of the humans (any of them that exist right now) being responsible for the creation of them, or the vast universe they have a far better understanding of.

No. ‘God’ dies when god arrives.
Well you have millions of people worldwide that still believe in a God despite the overwhelming evidence against it and against events in The Bible. The only evidence they need is that God exists because The Bible says so.

The die hard believers in The Bible will see things in the text that isn't there, manipulate and twist things so they are always right or just downright lie about or ignore facts (a flood that wiped out the entire earth except for a 1000 yet old dude and his family (boy did they win the lottery) and a pair of every animal on earth that some how got to the boat from everywhere on earth and fit on a boat 130m X 20m X 13m in size, really? Not seem a tad ridiculous? God has a way I suppose (that old chestnut))
 
Last edited:
How? Like I've said, god would be standing right in front of them!

This entire thread all I've had is people telling me how colossally more advanced these aliens must be... completely beyond my understanding. That's how they can come to this planet, across the vast interstellar gulf, with technology far beyond anything we understand now.

That is a god.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C Clarke.

I don't want hear anybody in this thread trying to say that they can have their alien visitors and their god at the same time. It'd be ridiculous.
This whole thread seems to be becoming very much about what you specifically do or don't want to hear.

You're so certain of these things it's impossible to be certain about. What if a visiting civilisation has a faith of their own?

There is room for both.
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Gold Member
This whole thread seems to be becoming very much about what you specifically do or don't want to hear.

You're so certain of these things it's impossible to be certain about. What if a visiting civilisation has a faith of their own?

There is room for both.

No. It's about actually engaging with the potentials of alien contact, rather than only thinking about the 'safe' version, that doesn't really affect anything.

My principal problem with UFO fans is that the engagement with the idea is superficial, so as not to endanger their world view. Little grey men in little grey ships that are nice to dream about, but don't actually have any ramifications on the way our planet exists.

We've already established in this thread that these aliens would require technology on such an advanced level, that would make them appear indistinguishable from gods to us. They would have to be able to literally manipulate spacetime to do things like travel the vast interstellar distances required. They would have a command over nature that was complete enough at a sub-atomic and atomic level to be able to exceed the constant of the universe.

They might have some sort of faith in a higher power, but their very presence would squash our rather limited concept of what 'god' is.

There is no room in a universe with these godlike alien races for the Judeo-Christian god. Or the Hindu one. Or the Buddhist one. Etc. These are human creations.
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Watch them.

Religion exists, by definition, in the absence of reason, because it asks you to believe an unlikey fairytale, without any kind of proof (hmmm....kind of like UFOs atm...anywaaayy). So it's unreasonable.
But of course, there are countless reasons (hmmm.. again) why one would believe this, absurd by any metric, fairytale, but this is another story.
The idea is that religious zealots and propagandists will undoubtedly come up with a narrative that fits both the Bible and aliens into it. The ridiculous mental gymnastics will be enough for most.

I agree there will be holdouts. But I don't think the majority would cling on to their religious belief after enough time with actual alien godlike beings had occurred. It would just be a bit silly. And I don't actually believe that as a whole, we're that silly as a species. Some countries and people would hold out for longer, of course. Largely the more credulous nations, who are apt to believe things without the clear evidence to support it.
 
Last edited:
We're so much smarter than ants and we crash vehicles all the time. Not just that, we get into all sorts of retarded problems.
Accidents and statistics, how do they work?

No, it would generate new religions around these higher beings. And Scientology would probably use that to their advantage as well.
Basically cargo cults. In the Pacific these cults became more extreme once the WW2 airdops stopped. They were (are) trying to summon the aircraft. The aliens better have the decency to keep throwing us fruits and metals or we might just go full retard.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom