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[AstuteClass]

I agree... and it sickens me.

And it's so blatantly obvious too that anyone who tries to claim tin-foil-hat is just a sheep.

Seriously, look at last gen. Granted the PS3's price was obscene and Sony tried to pack in a load of tech that bloated the console. And yes, Sony were arrogant about it. However, it was the whipping boy for the media and gaming forums for 3 years. It took until 2009, by which time it'd amassed some amazing titles and a huge turnaround, for it to finally end.

Here we are, less than 12 months into this gen, and IGN are already posting articles about how the X1 is going to hit its stride and break the competition next year, despite it being just last year that MS tried to usher in the most disgusting policies and handled it in such an arrogant, cocksure, anti-gamer, anti-consumer way... and all is already forgiven and forgotten.

 

[Pathfinder]

And you think when they don't aim for parity then they're going to piss a lot of xbone owners? The same thing can be said about Xbone owners, only small percentage will be pissed when there's no parity.

I edited my post above slightly to re-emphasize.

They will potentially piss off less people if both versions are similar, and potentially piss off more people if one version is noticeably sub-par.

 

[Pathfinder]

Here we are, less than 12 months into this gen, and IGN are already posting articles about how the X1 is going to hit its stride and break the competition next year, despite it being just last year that MS tried to usher in the most disgusting policies and handled it in such an arrogant, cocksure, anti-gamer, anti-consumer way... and all is already forgiven and forgotten.

How long are we supposed to stay mad at Microsoft? All that time spent being mad at them is less time spent on gaming.

 

[FranXico]

How long are we supposed to stay mad at Microsoft? All that time spent being mad at them is less time spent on gaming.

Why does one exclude the other? There are products from the competition for consumers to enjoy: the PS4 and the Wii U.

Edit: Note, I am not saying that consumers have the obligation to stay upset at MS forever. It is people's right to vote with their wallet, and each person has the right to support MS if they so desire. But keep in mind that most of the criticism from some of our fellow GAFfers is directed at some developers and some gaming press.

 

[Big Blue]

If the PS4 versions is confirmed to be neutered, I'll buy used or pirate the PC version.

 

[ReBurn]

How long are we supposed to stay mad at Microsoft? All that time spent being mad at them is less time spent on gaming.

This is what confuses me the most. Microsoft makes announcement, consumers hate it. So Microsoft changes it before it ever comes to pass.

I get being mad about being screwed. I don't get being mad about not being screwed.

 

[texhnolyze]

I don't understand how is this an issue for PS4 players. Is the graphical downgrade will be that noticeable? Is Xbox1 really that sucks?

 

[Pathfinder]

Why does one exclude the other? There are products from the competition for consumers to enjoy: the PS4 and the Wii U.

True, but all consoles are going to have some killer exclusives in the next couple years. I just think it would be silly to keep a chip on my shoulder when I could be playing all of them.

 

[lonedigitalwolf]

And it's so blatantly obvious too that anyone who tries to claim tin-foil-hat is just a sheep.

Seriously, look at last gen. Granted the PS3's price was obscene and Sony tried to pack in a load of tech that bloated the console. And yes, Sony were arrogant about it. However, it was the whipping boy for the media and gaming forums for 3 years. It took until 2009, by which time it'd amassed some amazing titles and a huge turnaround, for it to finally end.

Here we are, less than 12 months into this gen, and IGN are already posting articles about how the X1 is going to hit its stride and break the competition next year, despite it being just last year that MS tried to usher in the most disgusting policies and handled it in such an arrogant, cocksure, anti-gamer, anti-consumer way... and all is already forgiven and forgotten.

I agree man, completely. They're having it waaay to easy.

 

[Pathfinder]

I don't understand how is this an issue for PS4 players. Is the graphical downgrade will be that noticeable? Is Xbox1 really that sucks?

There is no confirmed graphical downgrade... like, at all. Nothing is confirmed, the game is still half a year out.

 

[Pathfinder]

Here we are, less than 12 months into this gen, and IGN are already posting articles about how the X1 is going to hit its stride and break the competition next year, despite it being just last year that MS tried to usher in the most disgusting policies and handled it in such an arrogant, cocksure, anti-gamer, anti-consumer way... and all is already forgiven and forgotten.

I agree man, completely. They're having it waaay to easy.

Wait a second... so is this, like, a revenge thing for you guys?

Sony didn't have it this easy when they screwed up, so why should Microsoft be let off the hook so easily? You don't feel they've suffered enough to satisfy you?

That's kind of petty...

 

[texhnolyze]

There is no confirmed graphical downgrade... like, at all. Nothing is confirmed, the game is still half a year out.

Still doesn't answer my question.
Why is this even an issue then? Why do people pissed off already?

 

[Chobel]

I edited my post above slightly to re-emphasize.

They will potentially piss off less people if both versions are similar, and potentially piss off more people if one version is noticeably sub-par.

I saw your edit, and I also edited my comment.

Anyway, till now, many multipats were better PS4 and it didn't present any slight problem. Heck some of these games sold really well in Xbone (CoD, BF).

 

[Big Blue]

This is what confuses me the most. Microsoft makes announcement, consumers hate it. So Microsoft changes it before it ever comes to pass.

I get being mad about being screwed. I don't get being mad about not being screwed.

I honestly think it was the response by Mattrick and Hyrb. Specificially Mattrick. I know personally they really turned me off.

 

[Mastperf]

This is what confuses me the most. Microsoft makes announcement, consumers hate it. So Microsoft changes it before it ever comes to pass.

I get being mad about being screwed. I don't get being mad about not being screwed.

You get mad if someone tries to screw you.

 

[AstuteClass]

Wait a second... so is this, like, a revenge thing for you guys?

Sony didn't have it this easy when they screwed up, so why should Microsoft be let off the hook so easily? You don't feel they've suffered enough to satisfy you?

That's kind of petty...

It's nothing to do with revenge. I'm not a fanboy of either company. I'm just pointing out the suspicious way the media and seemingly everyone else seems to have moved on from last year's nonsense, yet somehow it took far longer for the PS3? Why?

It would be sad if each company's crimes were equal, but MS did far worse IMO. I nearly died inside when I saw that these policies had arrived in console gaming.

 

[FranXico]

I nearly died inside when I saw that these policies had arrived in console gaming.

This is a bit off topic, but I fear those policies will eventually come back for the next generation. And next time, Sony might possibly also be on board. But yeah, this is a discussion for another thread, I guess.

 

[Pathfinder]

It's nothing to do with revenge. I'm not a fanboy of either company. I'm just pointing out the suspicious way the media and seemingly everyone else seems to have moved on from last year's nonsense, yet somehow it took far longer for the PS3? Why?

It would be sad if each company's crimes were equal, but MS did far worse IMO. I nearly died inside when I saw that these policies had arrived in console gaming.

I honestly don't know why. Just musing here, but perhaps it was because Microsoft fixed their problems before their console was released and Sony didn't fix theirs until years after its release?

Yeah, Microsoft's original plans for their console miffed me a bit, ended up getting a PS4 first. But Microsoft turned around their situation rather fast, and I realized I didn't really have a reason to STAY mad at them.

 

[Cornbread78]

You get mad if someone tries to screw you.

Oh hell no, I take it with open arms. ; )




Seriously though, screw Ubi and screw Rock steady


#buyusedgames

 

[AstuteClass]

I honestly don't know why. Just musing here, but perhaps it was because Microsoft fixed their problems before their console was released and Sony didn't fix theirs until years after its release?

Yeah, Microsoft's original plans for their console miffed me a bit, ended up getting a PS4 first. But Microsoft turned around their situation rather fast, and I realized I didn't really have a reason to STAY mad at them.

That's because intangible elements like "policies" are easy to fix. You just simply... don't do them, which is what MS did.

Pretty hard to recant on a Blu-ray drive and Cell technology once the R&D is done, millions have been spent and the system is designed and ready to go.

And as said, what MS proposed was far worse to me than an overly ambitious console.

 

[Biker19]

It's nothing to do with revenge. I'm not a fanboy of either company. I'm just pointing out the suspicious way the media and seemingly everyone else seems to have moved on from last year's nonsense, yet somehow it took far longer for the PS3? Why?

It would be sad if each company's crimes were equal, but MS did far worse IMO. I nearly died inside when I saw that these policies had arrived in console gaming.

That's the U.S. gaming media for you. Heck, they've been Pro-Microsoft & Pro-Xbox, blatantly defended Microsoft even when their obnoxious policies were brought out within everyone, even those like Edge Magazine & Polygon were highly defending Microsoft before.

It wasn't until months later after the consoles were released that they stopped treating Microsoft like royalty & started singing a different tune when they realised that Xbox One wasn't going to be exactly like Xbox 360 in popularity. Heck, even Edge has written a magazine back in May earlier this year stating, "Can Microsoft turn things around for Xbox One?" with the letters "H E L P" on the Xbox One's controller in the front page of the magazine.

 

[lonedigitalwolf]

You get mad if someone tries to screw you.

Yes, and i don't forget. What if you catched a glimpse of a person behind you raising a knife about to stab you, but he notices that you saw him and proceeds to ask for forgiveness, would you forgive said person?, would you trust him afterwards?, i sure wouldn't and to me... its kinda like that.

 

[LouisaFerre]

That's because intangible elements like "policies" are easy to fix. You just simply... don't do them, which is what MS did.

Pretty hard to recant on a Blu-ray drive and Cell technology once the R&D is done, millions have been spent and the system is designed and ready to go.

And as said, what MS proposed was far worse to me than an overly ambitious console.

Man, not many people put that much effort into understanding the hardware that goes into a console. The consumer isn't really there to have empathy for a company, it just comes down to how viable the product is to the vast majority of people, and the XBO at this point in it's life is more viable to most people than the PS3 was.

Also lol at the analogy with someone trying to stab you. MS wasn't about to reach in your pocket and grab your wallet. You aren't a victim because someone starts making products you dislike. I don't like what they were pushing for, but come on.

 

[GameAddict411]

well, they can fuck off. With all the bad publicity that MS got because of the much weaker system they had to find a solution that doesn't require changing the hardware. so they came with this fucking thing, "make your game as good as the competition on our system and then you can release your game" or "we will charge you less royalties when you sell your game on our system". It might be something else but at this point MS is inside somewhere. This and AC is simply not a coincidence.

 

[AstuteClass]

Yes, and i don't forget. What if you catched a glimpse of a person behind you raising a knife about to stab you, but he notices that you saw him and proceeds to ask for forgiveness, would you forgive said person?, would you trust him afterwards?, i sure wouldn't and to me... its kinda like that.

That's the fishy thing about it. MS were so quick to just drop it and for me, it wasn't because of listening to fans and all that. They tried to con people and instantly got told, "Get out" and they were all, "Okay... okay... you're right, you're right, my bad... had to try and all that."

That's the U.S. gaming media for you. Heck, they've been Pro-Microsoft & Pro-Xbox, blatantly defended Microsoft even when their obnoxious policies were brought out within everyone, even those like Edge Magazine & Polygon were highly defending Microsoft before.

It wasn't until months later after the consoles were released that they stopped treating Microsoft like royalty & started singing a different tune when they realised that Xbox One wasn't going to be exactly like Xbox 360 in popularity. Heck, even Edge has written a magazine back in May earlier this year stating, "Can Microsoft turn things around for Xbox One?" etc. with the letters "H E L P" on the Xbox One's controller in the front page of the magazine.

Yeah it's sad. I remember last gen when Sony were haemorrhaging money to bring games to the system, get the price down, and trying their best to get gamers to hang on and wait for the great games, which they delivered on... and there were still articles on all the big sites rubbing in and reiterating the console's sales woes and such.

MS has done nothing but renounce their policies, release the system, and voila... media back on their side.

 

[BFIB]

I really hate that this is becoming a thing. I have both, and enjoy what both consoles offer. But I want devs to push each console to its respective limit.

 

[Ursiform]

I agree... and it sickens me.

I nearly died inside when I saw that these policies had arrived in console gaming.

It's cool that you guys have preferences and ideals for gaming but you might want to divest a little, emotionally.

That's the U.S. gaming media for you. Heck, they've been Pro-Microsoft & Pro-Xbox, blatantly defended Microsoft even when their obnoxious policies were brought out within everyone, even those like Edge Magazine & Polygon were highly defending Microsoft before.

It wasn't until months later after the consoles were released that they stopped treating Microsoft like royalty & started singing a different tune when they realised that Xbox One wasn't going to be exactly like Xbox 360 in popularity. Heck, even Edge has written a magazine back in May earlier this year stating, "Can Microsoft turn things around for Xbox One?" with the letters "H E L P" on the Xbox One's controller in the front page of the magazine.

August 2013. Edge is based in the UK btw.

 

[lonedigitalwolf]

That's the fishy thing about it. MS were so quick to just drop it and for me, it wasn't because of listening to fans and all that. They tried to con people and instantly got told, "Get out" and they were all, "Okay... okay... you're right, you're right, my bad... had to try and all that."



Yeah it's sad. I remember last gen when Sony were haemorrhaging money to bring games to the system, get the price down, and trying their best to get gamers to hang on and wait for the great games, which they delivered on... and there were still articles on all the big sites rubbing in and reiterating the console's sales woes and such.

MS has done nothing but renounce their policies, release the system, and voila... media back on their side.

I think it comes down to one company having money coupled with their historical modus operandi, and another company that doesn't.

 

[Biker19]

Edge is based in the UK btw.

Ah, my mistake, then.

 

[Ombala]

Well screw that I buy the game used if theres parity.

 

[Rhaknar]

and you thought before the generation began that 1080p / 60 would be the goal...turns out parity was

 

[funkystudent]

This seems like standard PR "Both versions will be great" statement we see from most pubs and not a Ubisoft style "we are holding the PS4 version back to avoid debates and stuff" statement.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

This blowsssssssss. Times like this I wish consoles had ability to change res in the settings. How about letting us choose?

 

[lonedigitalwolf]

This blowsssssssss. Times like this I wish consoles had ability to change res in the settings. How about letting us choose?

That'd be awesome, but i don't see it happening...

 

[Pathfinder]

That's the fishy thing about it. MS were so quick to just drop it and for me, it wasn't because of listening to fans and all that. They tried to con people and instantly got told, "Get out" and they were all, "Okay... okay... you're right, you're right, my bad... had to try and all that."

Yeah it's sad. I remember last gen when Sony were haemorrhaging money to bring games to the system, get the price down, and trying their best to get gamers to hang on and wait for the great games, which they delivered on... and there were still articles on all the big sites rubbing in and reiterating the console's sales woes and such.

MS has done nothing but renounce their policies, release the system, and voila... media back on their side.

Soooo.. what about all the things Sony has done that aren't necessarily gamer-centric, or are we just ignoring all of that for right now so we can trash Microsoft?

I just want to make sure what kind of narrative we're going for here.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

This seems like standard PR "Both versions will be great" statement we see from most pubs and not a Ubisoft style "we are holding the PS4 version back to avoid debates and stuff" statement.

It was preceded with "we don't know what the resolution/framerate will be yet" during the stream too. I understand people's problem with gimping one version to achieve "parity" but it wasn't an official statement, nor was it very clear. A lot of the answers given during the stream side-stepped the questions.

 

[RexNovis]

This is what confuses me the most. Microsoft makes announcement, consumers hate it. So Microsoft changes it before it ever comes to pass.

I get being mad about being screwed. I don't get being mad about not being screwed.

Now that is some serious revisionist bullshit there. Microsoft made an announcement that basically fucked over the average consumer for their benefit. They then spread misinformation and straight up lies regarding their hardware. Consumers were irate and Microsoft told them to #dealwithit and buy a 360 if they had an issue with it. It was only after their preorder numbers started to look absolutely atrocious that they altered their policy. To this day the company line is not "sorry, we fucked up" instead it's "well you guys just weren't ready for our brilliant vision of the future so you don't get any of these cool toys that we totally intended to include with it." Their actions, language and messages since have only reaffirmed that they are entirely unapologetic and consistently anti consumer (Indie Parity clause, Tomb Raider "it has a duration," our customers are "first class citizens" ... at the expense of everyone else etc etc). People have every right to be pissed at them for the sort of bullshit they pulled and are, in fact, still pulling.

Just because you have forgiven or overlooked their words, actions and policies does not mean everyone should. Consumer trust has to be earned back. For some it's easier than others. But in no way are those reluctant to trust or support MS being unreasonable.

How long are we supposed to stay mad at Microsoft? All that time spent being mad at them is less time spent on gaming.

When a company tries to fuck you over you better believe people will "get mad" and we will stay mad for as long as we damn well choose. Personally I choose to be angry until they stop treating me, as a consumer, like an idiot who can't see through their bullshit. Until they convince me they are trustworthy they don't get my trust back.

 

[Ursiform]

This seems like standard PR "Both versions will be great" statement we see from most pubs and not a Ubisoft style "we are holding the PS4 version back to avoid debates and stuff" statement.

I love all my children equally.

Now, be a dear and take some scraps up to the attic for WiiU...

 

[lonedigitalwolf]

Now that is some serious revisionist bullshit there. Microsoft made an announcement that basically fucked over the average consumer for their benefit. They then spread misinformation and straight up lies regarding their hardware. Consumers were irate and Microsoft told them to #dealwithit and buy a 360 if they had an issue with it. It was only after their preorder numbers started to look absolutely atrocious that they altered their policy. To this day the company line is not "sorry, we fucked up" instead it's "well you guys just weren't ready for our brilliant vision of the future so you don't get any of these cool toys that we totally intended to include with it." Their actions, language and messages since have only reaffirmed that they are entirely unapologetic and consistently anti consumer (Indie Parity clause, Tomb Raider "it has a duration," our customers are "first class citizens" ... at the expense of everyone else etc etc). People have every right to be pissed at them for the sort of bullshit they pulled and are, in fact, still pulling.

Just because you have forgiven or overlooked their words, actions and policies does not mean everyone should. Consumer trust has to be earned back. For some it's easier than others. But in no way are those reluctant to trust or support MS being unreasonable.



When a company tries to fuck you over you better believe people will "get mad" and we will stay mad for as long as we damn well choose. Personally I choose to be angry until they stop treating me, as a consumer, like an idiot who can't see through their bullshit. Until they convince me they are trustworthy they don't get my trust back.

*applause* Kudos on your excellent post.

 

[Mastperf]

Soooo.. what about all the things Sony has done that aren't necessarily gamer-centric, or are we just ignoring all of that for right now so we can trash Microsoft?

I just want to make sure what kind of narrative we're going for here.

The PS3 was shredded to pieces on here last gen. Some of the Sony fans made the backlash worse by saying "Will wait for superior PS3 version." in the year leading up to PS3 launch. MS and the XB1 have a long way to go to catch up to the PS3 which was bashed by gamers and the industry for years.

 

[StuBurns]

Yeah, in that respect you and I agree. That said, it's informed my purchasing decisions already (skipped Watch Dogs and AC: Unity thus far) and will continue to do so throughout the gen.

Watch Dogs wasn't a parity victim, maybe you're just referring to sub-native resolution and I misread it though.

Parity certainly affects how I view a game. In a way, I feel bad about that. No developer is making this decision*. We will never know for sure, but MS made this demand in regards to Unity. They're co-marketing, they're getting stomped worldwide, and resolutiongate is a constant PR headache. A publisher is enforcing this on a team, it sucks twice over for the team, they get shit on online, and they don't get to see their game perform as it should.

It's not an all or nothing thing for me, if SE were to say they gimped FFXV on PS4, I'd be pissed about it, and I'd bitch a lot, but it's not going to stop me buying it, but if there's a game I'm borderline about, shitty practices such as forced parity can tip me over into not buying it.

* I should say outside of for logistical reasons. For example, around next-gen launch some teams were shipping six SKUs, two on brand new hardware. That is a colossal task, and targeting a specific quality standard, and moving all resources elsewhere when that quality has been achieved is perfectly respectable.

 

[Pathfinder]

The PS3 was shredded to pieces on here last gen. Some of the Sony fans made the backlash worse by saying "Will wait for superior PS3 version." in the year leading up to PS3 launch. MS and the XB1 have a long way to go to catch up to the PS3 which was bashed by gamers and the industry for years.

I respect your opinion, however it honestly feels to me like Microsoft is bouncing back rather fast. Definitely faster than I expected, and fast enough to make people upset. A handful more must-have exclusives and it's going to start looking better and better to people who were on the fence.

 

[RexNovis]

Wait a second... so is this, like, a revenge thing for you guys?

Sony didn't have it this easy when they screwed up, so why should Microsoft be let off the hook so easily? You don't feel they've suffered enough to satisfy you?

That's kind of petty...

Nah whats petty is polluting a thread with constant excuses and "hypotheticals" only to then go on to imply everyone else is being unreasonable.

Kinda odd how the two people with the most posts in this thread by a WIDE margin (a margin of 30 posts which is more than anyone else has contributed to the thread) are a pair of juniors who simply cannot abide any ill will toward MS and seem to consider it their duty to excuse away any and all people who dare say otherwise.

Hmm curious that is.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Awesome news! They just saved me $60+!

 

[Mastperf]

I respect your opinion, however it honestly feels to me like Microsoft is bouncing back rather fast. Definitely faster than I expected, and fast enough to make people upset. A handful more must-have exclusives and it's going to start looking better and better to people who were on the fence.

By " catching up to the PS3." I meant in regards to the amount of anger and distrust from gamers. MS has gotten off easy compared to Sony's screwups.

 

[Bastables]

So higher resolution, better frame rate, extra effects, better alti-aliasing, etc just comes naturally in a programming environment?

I had no idea.

You've never upgraded your pc then run the same game at a higher resolution with more effects?

Have you forgotten that this "programming environment" includes a pc version development not shackled to a Xbox one base line?

 

[lonedigitalwolf]

Nah whats petty is polluting a thread with constant excuses and "hypotheticals" only to then go on to imply everyone else is being unreasonable.

Kinda odd how the two people with the two people most posts in this thread by a WIDE margin (a margin of 30 posts which is more than anyone else has contributed to the thread) are a pair of juniors who simply cannot abide any ill will toward MS and seem to consider it their duty to excuse away any and all people who dare say otherwise.



Hmm curious that is.

Odd indeed.

 

[Pathfinder]

Nah whats petty is polluting a thread with constant excuses and "hypotheticals" only to then go on to imply everyone else is being unreasonable.

Kinda odd how the two people with the two people most posts in this thread by a WIDE margin (a margin of 30 posts which is more than anyone else has contributed to the thread) are a pair of juniors who simply cannot abide any ill will toward MS and seem to consider it their duty to excuse away any and all people who dare say otherwise.

Hmm curious that is.

You know, in politics it's widely understood that the first person to start going after an opponent's character has already lost.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I respect your opinion, however it honestly feels to me like Microsoft is bouncing back rather fast. Definitely faster than I expected, and fast enough to make people upset. A handful more must-have exclusives and it's going to start looking better and better to people who were on the fence.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Graphical parity with Microsoft's weaker console is bullshit for PS4 buyers. Period.

You know, in politics it's widely understood that the first person to start going after an opponent's character has already lost.

You're running for office?

 

[Pathfinder]

You're running for office?

Nope, just making comparisons.