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Bloodborne Producer: Targeting 30fps for "Game Design" purposes
- Thread starter Guerrilla
- Start date
30 FPS you say?
lol
Bloodborne Producer Apologizes, Says 20 FPS is Actually the Best FPS for Action Games
lol
Bloodborne Producer Apologizes, Says 20 FPS is Actually the Best FPS for Action Games
yes this is a joke
I'd like to know who these people are.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Have I already exclaimed that his comments are garbage? Because they are.
Is this real or a joke?
It says right in the post.
Anyways, I'l go ahead and gloat, called that it was a context/translation issue. People desperate for the next "scandal".
The producer wasn't saying it wouldn't he was saying that they couldn't hit 1080/60 so they went with 1080/30. All the weird action game nonsense came from a translator. Read the actual quotes in the op.
Needlecrash
Member
Not exactly related but I remember before the PS4 was launched, someone from Sony stated that "you're going to see a lot of 1080P/60FPS this generation". So far, I'm feeling betrayed.
Nevertheless, I do enjoy the Souls games yet they tend to hit frame drops hard in certain places. Blighttown and Valley of Defilement immediately come to mind. My thing is that this is a new game on new generation hardware. "Targetting 30FPS" is just worrying at this point. I feel that Bloodborne will turn out like the previous Souls games on console: trying [/B ]to maintain 30FPS with drops. If the game is just locked @ 30 with no issues with performance, then I'm good. I just don't want another previous janky souls experience on console.
Nevertheless, I do enjoy the Souls games yet they tend to hit frame drops hard in certain places. Blighttown and Valley of Defilement immediately come to mind. My thing is that this is a new game on new generation hardware. "Targetting 30FPS" is just worrying at this point. I feel that Bloodborne will turn out like the previous Souls games on console: trying [/B ]to maintain 30FPS with drops. If the game is just locked @ 30 with no issues with performance, then I'm good. I just don't want another previous janky souls experience on console.
Pretty sure it would look good at 4k but that's not realistic either. It's going to look perfectly fine at 30fps, just like nearly every other game out there.
dragonfart28
Banned
I'm really not a PC guy, but if true, this pretty much cements the decision this gen.
But I was talking more about the animations present in the game, stored data values (motion captured or scripted) and physical interaction (like cloth).
Higher updates onscreen, will make the animations look smooth.
Right. I'm just saying it's nice to want things. Lots of stuff would make the game look better. I wish PS5 would come out right now and they would rebuild Bloodborne from the ground up for it and release it by February, but I'm not going to use that as a critique against the game when it doesn't happen.
King Gilga
Member
Ugh, it's going to be a step down from playing DS1/2 on PC then. 60 fps felt so silky smooth compared to Demons Souls (which I now find impossible to go back to).
This was like the only console game I was really looking forward to, not really a system seller for me anymore.
This was like the only console game I was really looking forward to, not really a system seller for me anymore.
artsi
Member
To not play Bloodborne?
Cave Johnson
Member
Come on man, that's not even an equivalent comparison.
It is in the sense that it would be a completely unrealistic thing to hope for. I'm shocked at all the people in this thread who were honestly anticipating that From would make a 60fps game. No one should have ever had that expectation.
Turin Turambar
Member
Take in account that here "game design" can include number of enemies, scope of the scenarios, etc, I think that's he's talking about. But of course it's a half-truth only, as same game design could be done at 60fps with worse graphics... but graphics also sell games, so 30fps are targeted also because technical and graphical reasons, not only game design.
DrROBschiz
Member
Exactly. Its always a tradeoff and varies from game to game
You guys aren't considering all the variables here.
I sympathize with the desire to have it as a standard but it looks like we just aren't there yet.
We are seeing way too many big devs struggle across the board to provide high end PC level performance across console titles.
It must be a lot tougher than we give it credit for.
I'll be happy if they manage to make this game stay pretty and smooth at 1080p/30fps
Its a reasonable goal considering their performance track record.
Acquiescence
Member
Fuck 60fps, give me that extra graphical fidelity.
Cyborg
Member
Amen to that!
DrROBschiz
Member
To be fair they have been saying 30fps from the beginning and yet people keep asking them over and over as if the answer was going to change
Clearly they are focusing on getting he game to run at 30 and anyone who has played the demos leading up to now know that it has been a slow improvement over time.
60fps might not be feasible for the scope of the game. We don't need another Dark Souls 2 downgrade situation.
PS4 is a nice leap but its still and average PC spec wise guys. Even without the overhead.
The only reason it's not really a valid comparison is that the PS4 literally can't output 4k at 30fps. The point is it would be a trade off From aren't willing to make with the hardware they have to work with. 60fps is nicer, sure, as is 120fps, and 4k is nicer than 1080p, and of course From could have targeted 60fps, but it would have had huge implications in the visuals, and quite possibly the simulation. The PS4 CPU isn't even as theoretically powerful as the PS3's. Bloodborne is clearly featuring a much richer simulation, with larger group of enemies, and with them moving in groups around the environment, etc.
They can't do everything, they have a relatively shitty CPU to work with, and only 1.8TF of video performance. They want a notable improvement in game simulation, better physics simulation, hugely improved assets, far better image quality. All those things would suffer for 60fps, and ultimately, 60fps is only a feature on the PC versions of the Souls game, one of which this team had nothing to do with. Demons/Dark Souls were 30fps console games, the team isn't doing anything surprising.
Clockwork5
Member
There was never even a glimmer of hope that this game would be anywhere near 60.
Ill be surprised if it can hit 30 without noticeable tearing and downright floored if it is locked at 30. Optimization has never been a priority for From.
Still my most anticipated title.
Ill be surprised if it can hit 30 without noticeable tearing and downright floored if it is locked at 30. Optimization has never been a priority for From.
Still my most anticipated title.
Cave Johnson
Member
I'm actually more shocked that people are moving goalposts into a 30fps vs 60fps design debate when the main issue is about whether or not 30fps as the best feature to "play action games".
This seems to be the go-to answer of late from designers. Rather than saying anything about budget/time limitations or sacrificing framerate for other visual effects, now the go-to answer is to say that 30fps is a deliberate design choice.
Some are trying to make this sound like the choice in filmmaking between using b/w or color film stock, but really it's like the choice between driving a Hyundai Accent or a Ford GT.
Some are trying to make this sound like the choice in filmmaking between using b/w or color film stock, but really it's like the choice between driving a Hyundai Accent or a Ford GT.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Yep yep
Actually Dark Souls proved to me that 60fps is not necessary in this type of game. I played no differently when I upped my fidelity and was around 30fps compared to lowering a bunch and getting it to 60fps.
Didn't actually see myself playing any better.
And if a game is built from the ground up with 30fps in mind when it comes to camera movement / controller input / animations then its fine anyway. As the whole game is built around it and optimized for it.
Word.
Gameplay is absolutely most important. But the gameplay improvement from 30-60fps is so slight that it's not worth the very significant graphics trad-off that would have to happen. From games are very much about the atmosphere in addition to gameplay. I've played tons of games with incredible gameplay at 30fps, and this will likely be another one.
Hell, some of my favorite games of all time include Majora's Mask, Shadow of the Colossus and Dark Souls. Give me more games like those even if it means shit frame rate.
Read the edited OP.
DrROBschiz
Member
You keep asking the devs he same questions over and over you are bound to get some crappy answers
Banana Aeon
Member
What did you have to lower to get DS at 60? After DSfix, things runs silky smooth.
It doesn't matter if the game is built with 30fps in mind. One, 60fps looks better in motion than 30fps (and doesn't make me sick) and two, it feels better.
Is that whole site dedicated to parody/satire like The Onion or something 'cause whoever wrote that could get in a bit of trouble as there's no way of knowing if that's a joke or not?
It's a game based The Onion site, yes.
Edit: The thread title should be changed to reflect that.
There is no moving goal posts. The whole "play action games" vector was the translator talking out of his ass when the producer said he doesn't want to make any excuses.
Edit: The thread title should be changed to reflect that.
I'm gonna go a little crazy here and infer that they are basically saying that yeah 60fps would be great but since they can't hit locked 60fps, they are making a game design choice to lock it at 30fps.
I believe they are saying locked 30fps is better for their game than unlocked 60fps.
I believe they are saying locked 30fps is better for their game than unlocked 60fps.
I'm pretty sure they could still make it look insanely good at 60 fps if they tried.
DrROBschiz
Member
The only reason this was doable on PC is becuase obviously you might have hardware to overcome what is necessary to achieve 60fps
We can't upgrade our consoles and devs typically go the safe route to guarantee performance or at least should shoot for that
1080/30 is a reasonable goal and they haven't even guaranteed that they can hit that completely across he entire game.
Oh, well, as long as you're sure.
It is if the core concept of the action game you're playing requires other technical elements that make a locked 60 impossible to achieve.
Bloodborne is using a very different, likely much broader, world scope than previous Souls games. Why is it a surprise that this comes at the cost of frame rate?
60 fps is a bullet point and nothing more in most instances. Some games run at 60 and that enhances the quality of the experience. Other games run at 60 and still suck. Some games run at a locked 30 and feel much better than a variable 60, others run at a locked 30 and feel sluggish. Good game design is meant to account for this. If you are making a confined space fast paced action game or a PvP focused fighter it is worth prioritizing 60 fps as a general rule, but for most games that simply isn't the case.
Honestly, I'd be more concerned with a studio shooting for 60 and missing than the studio shooting for a locked 30 from day one. If you go for 60 and miss all of your animations, combat timing, etc. was built around a shorter response window and will likely feel rather janky. Accepting hardware limitations from day one, assigning the resources available judiciously, and living with 30 fps as a result leads to the game being built around preventing that fact from being a limiting factor to enjoy the game.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Read the edited OP.