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Brexit | OT3 | A Feast for Crows

C

ClosingADoor

Member
tuxfool said:
vAAgDS1.png

heh.
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Why would the AfD help the UK with Brexit. If they are anti-EU... why would they care what happens to the UK. Their stance would be that which is best for Germany, not giving stuff to another country.

Xando said:
Mastermind Varoufakis suggests the UK should walk away.
https://twitter.com/r4politics/status/906179045146185729

With how well his negotiating worked i wonder why any credible outlet still talks to him.
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Still talking like the EU doesn't hold all the cards. Just like with Greece back then (although the EU should have given in to Greece a little bit, his negotiating style didn't help at all).
 
J

Jonnax

Member
snoopeasystreet said:
Just moved to the uk branch of where I work from Ireland.

Have the option to be paid in pounds or euros. Any advice on which one I should take?

Thanks guys :)
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???? If you're being serious. It's Euros.
The pound has depreciated quite a bit and there's uncertainty around its future.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
Xando said:
He suggests a 5-7 year transition which is not possible.
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Seven years in the EEA is a very different transition to what's currently being proposed, and would certainly be a better plan. Shame that the UK Government has ruled out even considering the EEA option, in favour of magical thinking.
 
K

KDR_11k

Member
Benjamin1981 said:
How do they even publish a text with such bad german? And don't they understand that the british government are the ones who don't present real solutions and come across as not prepared. Some self reflection and humitility would be advisible.
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Humility? The UK is putting on a show seemingly meant to make as many Europeans as possible hate them. BoJo alone is running a bonfire of bridges.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Xando said:
He suggests a 5-7 year transition which is not possible.
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I don't think the EU would disagree to this. The fact Britain would want such a long transition would be a testament in itself to how poor an idea this whole charade was, the proof of which is the EU's main objective.
 
B

barber

Member
Xando said:
Mastermind Varoufakis suggests the UK should walk away.
https://twitter.com/r4politics/status/906179045146185729

With how well his negotiating worked i wonder why any credible outlet still talks to him.
Click to expand...

I mean he is not wrong in that those are their options if they want to negotiate access to the market. Either they walk out because it is not going to happen until everything else has been worked out (and the timer continues slowly creeping out until the final date), or they try to get a Norway style deal. The problem with that is that that would mean freedom of movement and that copy pasting an economic agreement is not something that can be done fast (even if they know everything about the UK as EU has been negotiating for them for decades, the stance has changed). And yeah, the best thing for both parties would be a long transition which gives time to the UK to rethink the shit they had gotten into.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Varoufakis isn't advocating walking away. Did you actually watch that clip? He's saying there are basically two possible outcomes: we walk away with nothing, or we are EEA members. There's no acceptable deal that falls in the middle of that. He explicitly says he'd rather the UK be EEA members.

Come on, let's keep to a high enough standard to actually look properly at the sources we link.
 
X

Xando

Member
Crab said:
I don't think the EU would disagree to this. The fact Britain would want such a long transition would be a testament in itself to how poor an idea this whole charade was, the proof of which is the EU's main objective.
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2 things though:

First, it's currently not possible since the negotiating mandate does not allow for a transition longer than 3 years. The EU parliament and some member states repeatedly stated they'd veto any transition longer than 3 years. The UK would have to convince these parties.

Second, the EU would have to change its rules on a number of things such as the length of it's budget for example. British citizens would also somehow need to give up their voting rights in atleast one european election, the UK would have to agree to lose its EC vote on certain topics concerning the future of the EU for the next 7 years.

I don't see why EU countries would go through the hassle of changing all these rules (unanimously btw.).

And that’s even ignoring the fact that all these changes would have to be ratified before march 2019.

Every time Merkel speaks about Brexit she says no cherry picking yet Varoufakis proposes the biggest change in EU law for atleast 10 years
 
B

Blue Lou

Member
I like how petty the squabble at The Proms is. People were given EU flags outside the venue to take in with them, now a pro-Brexit MEP is asking for funding for Union flags so they can be handed out to counteract it.
 
M

Mivey

Member
Forget the transition period, he just says that the UK should become a EEA member. Since pretty much nothing would change for businesses and citizens (I guess, the EU passport for banks would be gone, but that was a huge privilege anway, 'course you would loose that in any Brexit deal), there would be no need for long transitions. Perhaps a good negations team could get a 7 year temporary EU banking passport, so that the banks don't fall off a cliff. (This would also be in the EU's interest, mind you).

As always, Varoufakis has a rather logical view on things. Sadly, these days the world works on lunacy and bigotry, seems like.
 
J

Joni

Member
Crab said:
Varoufakis isn't advocating walking away. Did you actually watch that clip? He's saying there are basically two possible outcomes: we walk away with nothing, or we are EEA members. There's no acceptable deal that falls in the middle of that. He explicitly says he'd rather the UK be EEA members.
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It is a suggestion that not only requires the approval of all 27 European Union member states but also the three ones in the EEA, including one that has explicitly warned the UK that it wouldn't allow it in. It also requires the UK to pay just the same amount as it does now.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I don't really see EU opposing UK becoming a EEA member even if temporary. But I don't see how this will solve UK's issues. What would be realistically different in 7 years?
 
M

milanbaros

Member?
Jonnax said:
???? If you're being serious. It's Euros.
The pound has depreciated quite a bit and there's uncertainty around its future.
Click to expand...

The market has priced that in. If you are just going to receive you gbp based salary in Euros each month then choose whichever you'll be using more to decrease fx costs.
 
M

Morat

Banned
Blue Lou said:
I like how petty the squabble at The Proms is. People were given EU flags outside the venue to take in with them, now a pro-Brexit MEP is asking for funding for Union flags so they can be handed out to counteract it.
Click to expand...

Some fat shit in the gallery told me to put mine away. I told him to call the stewards if he had a complaint to make about my behaviour. He then gave me a dirty look and waddled off, leaving me with a better view. Win all around, really.
 
S

SporeCrawler

Member
KingSnake said:
I don't really see EU opposing UK becoming a EEA member even if temporary. But I don't see how this will solve UK's issues. What would be realistically different in 7 years?
Click to expand...

there is no benefit except face saving that the UK has left the EU. it would practically be a part of the EU without any power to vote in any matters.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
Xando said:
Mastermind Varoufakis suggests the UK should walk away.
https://twitter.com/r4politics/status/906179045146185729

With how well his negotiating worked i wonder why any credible outlet still talks to him.
Click to expand...

Well, he is right that UK should just end all the talk if they aren't capable of negating a compromise and selling it to their conservative and racist voterbase.

ClosingADoor said:
Still talking like the EU doesn't hold all the cards. Just like with Greece back then (although the EU should have given in to Greece a little bit, his negotiating style didn't help at all).
Click to expand...

"didn't helpt at all" is a nice way to say they made it all worse because they didn't realize that any deals which include paying billions of money for years must go through the various national parlaments and massively affect the public opinion and willingness for aid regarding to Greece. So they got a worse deal after all their antics.
 
A

Ac30

Member
Royal_Phalanx said:
In 7 years the idea of disconnecting from European integration will be dead?
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In 7 years the EU as we know it may well be dead. We're already in uncharted territory with Poland defying an ECJ injunction, and Macron's proposed Eurozone reforms will effectively create a second parliament. I'm hoping the western core nations integrate further, regardless of what the Polish or Hungarian governments desire - the EU wasn't designed to deal with nations refusing to follow the ECJ's rulings.

PiS apparently demanding reparations from Germany (fucking lol) won't help either. Fuck PiS.
 
B

Burai

shitonmychest57
ClosingADoor said:
Why would the AfD help the UK with Brexit. If they are anti-EU... why would they care what happens to the UK. Their stance would be that which is best for Germany, not giving stuff to another country.
Click to expand...

Ironically, Farage appears to be attempting to create some sort of alliance between all the right wing nations of Europe. A union as it were.
 
P

pswii60

Member
SporeCrawler said:
understandable since without the UK in EFTA they are the big fish in the pond. now UK joins and they are marginalized
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I don't see how the UK joining the EFTA is being considered. The UK economy is larger than all current members combined, and if the UK joined many of the existing trade deals would probably have to be renegotiated anyway so it wouldn't necessarily speed things up in that regard. It also goes against everything the UK government has been insisting regarding a 'bespoke arrangement' and negotiating individual trade deals, and all the other waffle.
 
R

Royal_Phalanx

Member
Burai said:
Ironically, Farage appears to be attempting to create some sort of alliance between all the right wing nations of Europe. A union as it were.
Click to expand...

AfD isn't in government and is nowhere near it. Still, it's ironic that European nationalists like Farage want to work together with their counterparts from other countries, since nationalism is at its core a hatred for other countries. I thought Farage hated other countries because they weren't the UK. And vice versa.
 
K

KDR_11k

Member
Burai said:
Ironically, Farage appears to be attempting to create some sort of alliance between all the right wing nations of Europe. A union as it were.
Click to expand...

They're all connected by their adoration of and funding by Putin. The result would be a new soviet union...
 
M

Moosichu

Member
KingSnake said:
Rejoining means complying with the requirements for joining EU. No special conditions anymore.
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Other countries seem to be okay under those conditions. It's better than not being part of the EU at all. Quite frankly we have a lost all of the good faith which gave us those special conditions.

Now, whether people would vote for that in 7 years is unknown - but I believe by that point that we would.

ittoryu said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/10/tony-blair-get-tough-on-immigration-to-stop-brexit

Nothing stops this delusional train: other countries have to change things so that the Majestic Island might not leave the EU.

Enough of this shit.
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I really hate this rhetoric, because one of the benefits of the EU is freedom of movement. It want to remain part of the EU because of it, not in spite of it. This is ignoring the fact that the UK decided to ignore the immigration limiting tools the EU already provided anyway.
 
R

Royal_Phalanx

Member
M

Moosichu

Member
Royal_Phalanx said:
Only the UK has a problem with intra-EU free movement. Such a special snowflake whiny country this is. Also those tools already existed but you didn't use them for some reason.
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Well, the reason the UK didn't use them whilst other EU countries did was because it was a very economically savvy move that helped push the UK ahead of the pack.

It's too bad the the British government didn't forsee that these immigrants taking our jobs and going on benefits would lead to the 2008 global financial crisis and therefore definitely necessary Austerity. /s
 
J

jelly

Member
So who was that ignored the immigration tools at their disposal for 6 years....was it May....yes it was.

He is right on this, UK is going to side tracked for decades and making excuses for problems they cause and should fix themselves.

“Brexit is a distraction, not a solution, to the problems this country faces. If members of parliament really believe that, then their obligation is to set out solutions that deal with the actual communities and problems people have, and not do Brexit which is actually going to distract us from those solutions.”
 
M

Morat

Banned
ittoryu said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/10/tony-blair-get-tough-on-immigration-to-stop-brexit

Nothing stops this delusional train: other countries have to change things so that the Majestic Island might not leave the EU.

Enough of this shit.
Click to expand...

The thing Blair in particular and the Labour party in general never understood was that by tacitly agreeing with the "evil migrants are taking our jobs" rhetoric, they gave weight to the nonsense argument as it was convenient for them to have scapegoat to blame. It is both a morally and politically wrong position, as it essentially concedes the argument to the opponent.
 
S

SporeCrawler

Member
Burai said:
Ironically, Farage appears to be attempting to create some sort of alliance between all the right wing nations of Europe. A union as it were.
Click to expand...

he tried that with le pen as well. le pen has lost and front national is in shambles. unfortunately in germany afd will probably get into parliament and will continue to be successful. some afd politicians are now questioning the citizenship of germans without german blood and that seems to give afd a boost (unfortunately this is a line of thinking many germans still have). it gets into a very dark territory and the sister party of afd, csu is certainly going to be part of merkels government.
 
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