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CONTROL Resonant system requirements
- Thread starter winjer
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winjer
Gold Member
Alan Wake 2 required a GPU with Mesh Shader support, which the 5600XT and GTX 1070 do not have. Tough I think it got a later patch to add a traditional geometry pipeline.
kevboard
Member
they added primitive shader support for older cards yeah.
but it still didn't run all that amazingly well
Bojji
Member
winjer
Gold Member
Not the AMD primitive shaders pipeline, but the old VTG pipeline (Vertex, Tessellation, and Geometry pipeline)
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
We should assume this is for 1080p??
kevboard
Member
are you sure it didn't also get primitive shader support for RDNA1 cards? I thought that was part of it... could be wrong tho. but I also wonder, if they didn't, why they didn't, as they already had to use Sony's version of that on PS5 anyways. but I'm not sure how much Sony's version differe tbh.
winjer
Gold Member
AW2 is an Nvidia sponsored game.
kevboard
Member
I doubt that means anything beyond them making sure path tracing runs well on their cards. we haven't seen any real indication of Nvidia trying anything shady to prevent devs from adding support for AMD tech in sponsored games... the other way around however
winjer
Gold Member
I doubt that means anything beyond them making sure path tracing runs well on their cards. we haven't seen any real indication of Nvidia trying anything shady to prevent devs from adding support for AMD tech in sponsored games... the other way around however
First, no AW2 does not support Primitive Shaders.
And you must be living under a rock if you think nvidia is not blocking AMD and Intel.
Just recently we got 007, an nvidia sponsored game, that blocked FSR4 and XeSS, and the respective Frame Generation.
And this is just the most recent one. I can tell you a lot more.
kevboard
Member
it does on PS5, hence me expecting them to add it to PC for RDNA1 cards.
I highly doubt Nvidia had anything to with with that. the DLSS support is fully broken as well, I just think that was a case of incompetence.
winjer
Gold Member
But it's blocked on PC. Can you guess why?
Even Optiscaler was blocked. The team is still trying to make it work with XeSS and FSR4.
And there are so many games where Nvidia blocked FSR and XeSS. Some where they even blocked injectors.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
kevboard
Member
because they somewhow integrated it directly instead of through the dll. incompetence
I don't know of any game like that.
winjer
Gold Member
No one does that unless they want to.
And then there is no XeSS. And no Frame Generation. Only Nvidia.
Kena, which still only has DLSS. After launch, FSR could work with injectors. But soon there was a patch that blocked it. Only recently did Optiscaler managed to get it working again.
Amid Evil, only has DLSS. I personally asked the dev why no other upscaler, including UE4's native TAAU. And he say no. This was one of the games that was sponsored by nvidia, with special implementation for RT.
Dying Light 2 for years only had FSR2.0 and injectors blocked. Only very recently did it get FSR3.1 and the upgrade for FSR4.
CP2077, the most sponsored nvidia game ever. Only had FSR2.1 for years. Until it got FSR3.1 and it looked worse than FSR2.1 But somehow, with Optiscaler FSR3.1 did look well enough.
Sorry to tell you, but since you have an nvidia GPU, you have no idea of how many times AMD users had to use Optiscaler, or other injectors to get FSR working with games. So many times.
Hohenheim
Member
Yeah, I guess.
I'm gonna pump path tracing to the max in this one. Remedy games looks absolutely stunning with all bells and whistles at max.
kevboard
Member
the issue here is that you don't have any evidence of it being Nvidia's doing.
the simple fact is that they have 90% of the market, which means supporting their tech is extremely important as they are the de facto default.
not supporting DLSS is therefore always instantly suspicious.
meanwhile, not supporting FSR well or at all can always be explained by the Devs simply not giving a shit. and it is IMO the more plausible explanation for most of these.
if a game is AMD sponsored and doesn't support DLSS, the most probably explanation is the AMD deal, because, you're badly supporting 90+% of your audience.
if a game is Nvidia sponsored and doesn't support FSR, sadly, it can just literally mean they don't care for the small percentage that will have a worse experience.
not supporting FSR frame gen on top of that could be a deliberate decision due to how bad it is. I have yet to try it and not be terrible, often in fact less smooth looking than framegen off due to completely uneven frame cadence.
winjer
Gold Member
Way too many games that are sponsored by nvidia, with FSR and XeSS blocked, for that to be true.
And be honest, it's the same evidence you have for AMD blocking DLSS.
Mind you these are all temporal upscalers, the hard part is implementing the first one. After exposing the color, depth buffers and motion vectors, it's easy work.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
I wonder if there is a case here for antitrust since Nvidia by far is the dominant player with almost 90% market share.
winjer
Gold Member
I doubt it. Especially considering that AMD and even Intel have done the same.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
But they don't have market dominant position like Nvidia. 90% is basically a monopoly.
kevboard
Member
well, I have also seen games that support DLSS and XeSS but not FSR... What's the explanation there? the first one I'd think of would be that the Devs didn't like how FSR2/3 looked
in fact, I know a UE5 game that doesn't support TSR, or FSR2/3, but does support DLSS and XeSS. Gori. and I might remember this wrong, but I could swear the game did support FSR2 in the early versions or in the demo, and they then took it out of the game in later patches. and that game isn't sponsored by Nvidia either as far as I can tell.
and yes, I have the same evidence, but the situation is very different, which is what I said in my previous post.
not having FSR support affects only a small percentage of your potential players. but not supporting DLSS, while supporting FSR2/3, means that your game will look worse and have worse support for the VAST majority of your potential players.
this difference makes AMD sponsored titles far more suspicious when they don't support DLSS, than it is the other way around. that's simply the reality of the market.
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winjer
Gold Member
well, I have also seen games that support DLSS and XeSS but not FSR... What's the explanation there? the first one I'd think of would be that the Devs didn't like how FSR2/3 looked
doubly in fact, I know a UE5 game that doesn't support TSR, or FSR2/3, but does support DLSS and XeSS. Gori. and I might remember this wrong, but the game did support FSR2 in the early versions of in the demo, and they then took it out of the game in later patches. and that game isn't sponsored by Nvidia either as far as I can tell.
I know no game that only has support for FSR, and only XeSS and DLSS.
But we are talking about games specifically that are sponsored by one brand.
Regarding Gori:
The only difference is that you have an nvidia card, so it doesn't affect you.
You don't have to find work arounds, every time an nvidia sponsored game blocks XeSS or FSR. Or when are forced to use Optiscaler to get something working.
And seriously, the block on 007 is so obvious, I'm surprised you are trying to deny it.
Bojji
Member
AW2 launched with mesh Shaders on XSX, PC and primitive shaders on PS5.
PC version only had raster fallback that was slow, no primitive shaders support for rdna1 (there is no API for this). Later they improved performance of that legacy vertex shader suport.
kevboard
Member
did you fucking ask an AI? dude, I played the game last month. there is no FSR support.
STOP ASKING AI FOR INFORMATION! THIS IS @ EVERYON NOT JUST YOU! STOP THINKING AI IS ANYTHING BUT HALLUCINATING TRASH... PSA over.
quickly recorded this on my Deck as I was just downloading a new OS update anyways, and had it installed:
but I also played a way earlier version and the Demo, and I think those had FSR2.
maybe someone who has an older patch installed or the demo installed could check on that (although the demo might have been updated sinces as well)
I have a Deck, which I play more stuff on than on my Desktop....
I play Gori with FSR4 injected through Decky-Framegen
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Bojji
Member
Resident evil village and 4 only have FSR 1/2 support. Same story for Callisto protocol. Star field only had FSR for months.
All AMD sponsored.
winjer
Gold Member
did you fucking ask an AI? dude, I played the game last month. there is no FSR support.
STOP ASKING AI FOR INFORMATION! THIS IS @ EVERYON NOT JUST YOU! STOP THINKING AI IS ANYTHING BUT HALLUCINATING TRASH... PSA over.
quickly recorded this on my Deck as I was just downloading a new OS update anyways, and had it installed:
Yes, because that is a barely unknown game and there is little info about it.
And that game appears on the FSR2 list of supported games: Gori: Cuddly Carnage
Then how many games have you seen that are sponsored by nvidia that have blocked FSR. Because in the last 5 years, I have found many.
winjer
Gold Member
I'm not denying that AMD blocked DLSS and XeSS in the games they sponsored.
I'm saying nvidia has done the same. And worse yet, blocked injectors.
kevboard
Member
this supports my memory of it having FSR, but removing it. which can only be explained by in 2 ways. 1: they didn't give a shit, 2: they didn't like how it looked. and probably it was a combination of both.
I haven't seen many so far
but again, imo the most likely explanation is that they don't care or don't like it.I doubt Nvidia cares, in fact the more people that make comparison videos showing how much better DLSS is compared to anything below FSR4, the better for them. it's literally free marketing.
Nvidia should have sponsored devs to implement both FSR3 and DLSS, and then sponsor PC comparison video channels for making videos comparing them lol
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Thebonehead
Gold Member
winjer
Gold Member
I don't know the story of that game.
But it's also a game that is not sponsored by Nvidia, nor AMD, not Intel. So it doesn't matter.
I haven't seen many so far
I doubt Nvidia cares, in fact the more people that make comparison videos showing how much better DLSS is compared to anything below FSR4, the better for them. it's literally free marketing.
Nvidia should have sponsored devs to implement both FSR3 and DLSS, and then sponsor PC comparison video channels for making videos comparing them lol
But that's the thing, everyone knows that DLSS is better than FSR, especially 2 and 3. And still, a lot of nvidia sponsored games block FSR and XeSS. And 007 is just the latest example.
kevboard
Member
that's exactly why it matters. if a non-sponsored game exhibits the same things you accuse sponsored games of, then that weakens your evidence.
why REMOVE it?... they didn't just not add it, they removed it. and this is Unreal Engine, which has very straightforward support for all the upsamplers.
I played it with FSR4 injected through Decky-Framegen on my Deck.
007 doesn't block FSR, it has a bad FSR implementation that doesn't use the .dll, just like it has a bad DLSS implementation that runs like shit. and an unfinished path tracing implementation that was pushed back and will come as an update later. and weird performance issues with transparencies... and afaik it runs slightly better on AMD as well doesn't it?
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winjer
Gold Member
I don't know why they removed it. And it doesn't matter, it's an unknown game and it's not sponsored by anyone.
It's just not FSR4. It's also XeSS. And all FrameGen tech, asides from nvidia's.
Come on, this one is so obvious.
NVidia sponsored deals go back 2 decades in PC space and they always made very sure to get exclusive support for contemporary tech where possible. And yes I've been through a few of those first hand.
Actually if it's 90% of the market supporting their tech is less important - since most of the buying market gets the same experience regardless. The only purpose of going the extra mile is if
a) your direct competitor (other games in same genre/space) are doing something that makes your product look worse (eg. COD with DLSS and Battlefield without it).
b) adding NVidia support gets you extra marketing/exposure (which requires a deal with NVidia - with 90% of the market they have less incentive than ever to do anything for you unless you have something to offer in return).
Kind of but not really? I mean again - there's nothing standout about exclusive features that 90% of the market supports, even if they're absent it's unlikely to matter outside of direct competitors doing something better.
For high-profile releases you're probably right - but anything that is under 100M budget probably doesn't get impacted at all.
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kevboard
Member
again, it matters a lot. we know it's not sponsored, and they don't support it.
so every other game you accuse could literally follow the same reason as Gori.
XeSS has an even smaller market share, and FSR FrameGen is pretty shit
very easy explanation why they don't care.
it is not, for all the reasons I mentioned.
low market share, non-sponsored games exhibiting the same behaviour, quality issues.
could it he Nvidia blocking it? yes... could it be just like in Gori where the devs just chose not to support it? imo not only equally as likely, but more likely.
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winjer
Gold Member
again, it matters a lot. we know it's not sponsored, and they don't support it.
so every other game you accuse could literally follow the same reason as Gori.
XeSS has an even smaller market share, and FSR FrameGen is pretty shit
very easy explanation why they don't care.
it is not, for all the reasons I mentioned.
low market share, non-sponsored games exhibiting the same behaviour, quality issues.
could it he Nvidia blocking it? yes... could it be just like in Gori where the devs just chose not to support it? imo not only equally as likely, but more likely.
Implementing multiple upscalers is very easy, after the first one. There is no excuse not to support all of them.
And mind you, for RTX 20 and 30 series, FSR FG or XeSS FG are the only ways to have Frame Gen. So it's a big market. But of course, it's good for nvidia to also block older cards and force users to upgrade.
But the thing I don't get is why you think it's obvious that when AMD sponsors a game and blocks DLSS and XeSS. But somehow, nvidia sponsors another game, blocks XesS and FSR but you deny it.
It's the exact same thing happening with both brands. And these petty wars harms consumers on both sides.
kevboard
Member
yeah... but again, Gori... and I bet there are more examples out there, this is just the one that came to mind for me as I just played it.
going as far as straight up removing it tells me they probably didn't see any reason to support it, due to quality issues.
FSR Framegen is pretty trash in every game I tried it in. XeSS Frame Gen I never saw in any game tbh... or didn't notice at least. didn't even know it's supported on non-Intel cards.
I literally explained why it's far more suspicious.
leaving 90% of the market behind by not supporting DLSS is absolutely suspicious, because it's also the superior upsampler on top of being the main one that's directly supported on the hardware of the majority of your audience.
you can not explain that away easily.
meanwhile you can reasonably explain FSR support being skipped by simply acknowledging that it's a smaller part of the playerbase that is affected and even maybe due to quality issues.
winjer
Gold Member
That is it. Gori.
There is a dozen or more games that support Intel FG. But if nvidia continues to block it, there won't be many more.
But here is the thing you continue to ignore. Implementing an upscaler, after the buffers are exposed for the first one, is a very easy task. There is no excuse.
And in big games, even if AMD and Intel only make up for 6%, it's still several hundreds of copies sold. It more than pays the little work require to implement XeSS and FSR.
The damning evidence, is that IOI implemented FSR3.1 the hardest way, the way takes more time. And there is no reason for it, except that it's a game sponsored by nvidia.
kevboard
Member
I directly addressed this with... GORI... it removed one of them...
it's not only an implementation thing, it can literally be a quality issue. if the devs don't like the quality of FSR upsampling or FSR Framegen, then they might not want to support it
yes, Gori might be only 1 example of straight up removing FSR, but the fact that such an instance exists tells you that maybe ease of implementation might not be enough.
why is not using the dll the "hardest way" to implement it?
and maybe they thought the best way to implement it properly was a fully dev driven implementation that is finetuned for this game, and the way to do that is to lock it to a specific version that looked and worked the best in their opinion
also, thanks to PC Gaming Wiki I now have found a few more games that support XeSS and DLSS but not FSR2/3/4
AEW Fight Forever
Chorus
Deadlink
Dead Take
Deceive Inc
First Dwarf
Flintlock
Fortnite (it has TSR of course, but no FSR4 so far)
Ghostbusters: Spirits Unleashed
and I stopped going down the list at that point, but alphabetically on that list from A to G, those are the games that support XeSS and DLSS but not any form of FSR (or TSR aside from Fortnite).
afaik. none of them were Nvidia sponsored, and if they were, XeSS somehow still made it in.
I also saw a few games that only have XeSS support in there, which is weird, but...
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DanielG165
Member
It uses mesh shaders instead, right?
EDIT: My question was answered. Mesh shader support on Series X, and primitive shaders on PS5.
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