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Destiny 2 Won't Use Dedicated Servers On PC (or presumably consoles either)
- Thread starter chillybright
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I agree that reviews won't make much of a difference to D2, but I would absolutely love to see a major outlet properly call out a huge release like this - just like an important film reviewer would call out a shitty film, regardless of who it's made by or how much it costs.
Doubt that will happen, tho, cos the relationship in the gaming sector between the (key) press and publishers/devs is way too cosy.
Destiny 1 has a 76 Metacritic and was slammed by critics when it launched.
Fair enough.
I'm just frustrated that some people are defending P2P in a AAA online focused title.
Do you have a solution that stops lag switches and my public IP being broadcast?
LifEndz
Member
SBMM is still a thing? I thought they got rid of it after the community kept complaining. Haven't played destiny in months so I don't know.
Fair point, well made.
Yeah saying p2p isn't an issue in 4v4, go play Trials in Destiny this weekend. 3v3 and connection issues are a huge problem. People getting dropped, red bars having the advantage, getting stuck in black screens. This is disappointing news for sure.
With that said, there were times in Destiny when CBMM was more of the priority than SBMM and the connection issues weren't as prevalent. Let's just hope they get the balance right.
With that said, there were times in Destiny when CBMM was more of the priority than SBMM and the connection issues weren't as prevalent. Let's just hope they get the balance right.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
That's put me off buying the game. The P2P in Destiny is some of the worst I've ever experienced in the competitive modes.
for honor ring a bell?
digitaltrance
Member
"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."
I'm all for voting with your wallet, don't get me wrong. And I think P2P was chosen because when launching Destiny, selling that 'shared adventure' was going to be the primary challenge/goal and thats what the design went with. Not to mention the internal struggles they had to get the game out. But I agree that there is little reason for Bungie to not research that for Destiny 2 again and think "hey, why dont we use Dedicated for PvP?". I hope it will be addressed somewhere.
josecitoxnyo
Member
No they aren't, they are a better solution on paper and in concept, but they requiere more cost/investment, so in reality, they're only as good as they're investment in hardware.
Lag switches have very little to do with bufferbloat. There are potential solutions but unless the game is heavily checking a client's link you can't do anything about lag switches, which are a shitty form of cheating. I would hope bungie and their unique experience to the subject would employ what I mentioned. Not hard to have the engine check users and see if they are artificially messing with their link.
Like I said though SQM manages the packets on your network to ensure the following.
1. All your packets are properly arranaged in to proper queue flows. Basically voip and gaming traffic don't get delays or put in the back of the queue.
2. Bufferbloat is minimized.
3. Bufferbloat is corrected when it happens.
4. Your packets are more properly shaped thus reducing or eliminating your router from having to convert them.
vs a fifo queue attached to old QOS which doesn't work until well after a problem happens or no QOS which can't fix latency issues that are being mentioned. For Peer 2 Peer play what I mentioned is a great baseline for gamers. Sadly we need more using anything vs nothing or the old shit which does nothing.
Yea I remember crap like this. Putting a full clip in someone. That person taking no damage and all of a sudden you're dead instead by that same guy....
Now this is a thing that will happen, and wizard from the moon them for allowing it to happen, still...
P2P connection system between players don't necessarily mean that, no.
In Pugb if you are lag switching or lagging really badly the game tells you that they have detected a poor connection and then you lose the control of your character for the time that your internet connection is jumping all over the place, there are ways to deal with lagswitchers, we will just have to wait and see if destiny does anything to them.
johancruijff
Banned
i'm not paying 60 for p2p on a late release
I'm desperately on the side of hoping they implement something and that the something is effective during firefights when someone is most likely to employ that bullshit.
Why are you defending this? You would lose nothing if Activision had dedicated servers setup for Destiny 2.
uh what..so adding extra things on top of P2P with the chance of toaster host on a 1 mbps down & .5 mbps up connection is better then dedicated?
seems that things are still a bit up in the air on what they're doing.
http://www.pcgamer.com/how-bungie-plans-to-make-destiny-2-on-pc-legit-on-day-one/
http://www.pcgamer.com/how-bungie-plans-to-make-destiny-2-on-pc-legit-on-day-one/
I'm telling you it's all a PR attempt to save face. Ubisoft said the same thing and plenty of people had issues.
GameAddict411
Member
The original destiny didn't have dedicated several either and it was fine. As long as they refine the networking side even more, it's none issue for me.
¯\_(ツ
_/¯Seems that it will be the familiar case of developers saying: "We're doing our best to improve that experience" vs people on Gaf/Reddit/Whatever saying "Designated servers or Bust". I'm just pointing out that it seems that they are atleast acknowledging the expectations that people have.
It was far from fine. Every single Iron Banner was plagued with issues related to laggy players.
josecitoxnyo
Member
It's not about defending them, it's about understanding why first and then make your thoughts.
Dedicated servers are no magical solution as people think they are, it's not as simple as having them and that's it. They're only as good as their implementation, just like everything.
If the cost/performance it takes to implement is, then yes, that's their main reasoning behind this. see?
Have we seen any recent P2P implementations that have worked well? In my experience, even a mediocre dedicated server setup is better than P2P. Though I'll admit I haven't played much P2P in the last 5-7 years.
¯_(ツ
Seems that it will be the familiar case of developers saying: "We're doing our best to improve that experience" vs people on Gaf/Reddit/Whatever saying "Designated servers or Bust". I'm just pointing out that it seems that they are atleast acknowledging the expectations that people have.
I'm just saying to be skeptical and wait for reviews. P2P has problems that I haven't seen a single dev fix it outside of GGPO (which they can't use for Destiny). You can polish a turd all you want, but that doesn't change what it is.
josecitoxnyo
Member
It's hard to measure from this side, but, put it this way, the more people playing, the better it should be, since you'll be matching against a bigger pool of players who are closer to you or even with better connections than you.
When it's not the case, you get the constant issues we're having now with the game, less people playing and farther away, bad matchmaking settings make this even worse.
A great example of shit server side implementation was BF4, netcode and server side hardware requirements made the game work like shit most of the time, even with the original low tick rate. The solution? Optimize the software and push even more hardware horsepower into them.
Saucycarpdog
Member
BF1, Overwatch, The Division, hell even Halo 5 has dedicated servers. I'm pretty sure they can invest in them without breaking their poor billion dollar wallet.
I never said they were a magical solution. Not matter how good you can get P2P, it'll never be better than a well run server for a game like Destiny.
Activision doesn't get to use the "it's cheaper" response. I willing to bet the microtransactions you know they'll put in will work perfectly the day they get added.
Mass Effect
Member
I guess Red Bar Bullshit will continue then.
Not to mention Activision spent $500 mil on the first Destiny for development and promotion.
josecitoxnyo
Member
All of them, except Overwatch work like shit in my region (South America), do you know why? Because how expensive it is to deploy servers. What should people in that situation do? not play the game.
That leads to a lost sale, Activision/dev not happy.
Why would i invest in this expensive server which will limit my reach of potential sales?, easy, you don't.
Of course they get to use it, it's one of the reasons they make so much money, they're great at managing costs, specially for hosting services, i even recall an article that said that it was one of the main reasons Bungie signed their contract with them.
And no, a shit dedicated server will work just as bad.
MrChowderClams
Member
Awesome news! Can't wait!
One of the biggest reasons why I stopped playing Destiny. I honestly didn't mind the loot grind as much as constantly seeing this bullshit in PvP. Enemies hovering around the map. Ammo crates not giving you ammo. Getting hit and dying around corners... Really disappointing that they didn't talk at all about fixing one of the most broken aspects of the first game :/
joecanada
Member
yup. I know my friend will buy this so I'll play it but I would buy it after "season" 1 if it were me.....
josecitoxnyo
Member
It's amazing how people easily forget that game development has costs, like, huge costs.
Seeing most of the people bitch about micro transactions is cute most of the time because of this lol.
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