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Destiny's raids will not support online matchmaking with random players.

BokehKing

Banned
Communication, commitment, no short fuse 'I give up I'm leaving' tempers, I want to go in there with people that know we are going to die, multiple times. . I may not know some of these Gaf people in person, but I know I'll be teaming up with the ones with the right intentions
 

liquidrage

Neo Member
I understand everyone's frustration about the decision to not have matchmaking in a post-matchmaking world.

No. I don't think you do. You've given no tools to find the people to play with.

Either you know 5 other people to play with, or you don't.

I'm going to end up on reddit trying to form a raid group and spend the most frustrating time not having your content beat me, but nothing being able to actually form a group together.

You should use a gearscore for matchmaking and provide it. It's not like the clans will help, we can't type to each other.

You've basically said, "Bring your own". EQ was far more forgiving. I know. I was there from beta on. I could find guilds in /ooc, join them, and in /g decide to do content together.

You're not even offering that. I'm SOL doing your content no matter how dedicated I am in the game.
 

TrueGrime

Member
I wouldn't mind matchmaking with randoms. My last true MMO that I have played was FF14 and while at times for harder dungeons it took awhile to get together a random party the experience was satisfactory. Especially since it was my noob ass that was learning. When my guild mates weren't on then who could I have looked to in order to complete that dungeon?

Me: "Hey guys. New here. Anyone do this stance before?"
Random 1: "Nope."
Random 2: "Yup."
Random 3: "Nope."

Then the person that has done it before goes on to give us info. It's all about communication. To say all random interaction would be bad is untrue. To say that randoms can't take you through some difficult end game content, that's also untrue.

I'll never forget this group that got me through this.

ff11.jpg
 

Fjordson

Member
All these people in this thread going "good" and "this is great news" baffle me. Not having the option for matchmaking raiding is good now? Who cares if it would be hard to beat with randoms, the option should be there. How backwards.
Same thing happened before ODST. They announced that there wouldn't be any matchmaking for firefight and some people basically applauded the decision.

Made no sense to me and still doesn't. The option wouldn't harm anyone's experience. Anyone so concerned about the difficulty could simply not use matchmaking.
 

RdN

Member
All these people in this thread going "good" and "this is great news" baffle me. Not having the option for matchmaking raiding is good now? Who cares if it would be hard to beat with randoms, the option should be there. How backwards.

Quote for the truth.
 

Stoze

Member
This is a valid complaint.

I really hope that there's more to the clan roster stuff than what we saw in beta.

I unfortunately doubt it, they would have tested in-game clans and public chat in the beta if those were in the full game. Those not being in makes no optional matchmaking a valid complaint, imo.
 

molnizzle

Member
Me: "Hey guys. New here. Anyone do this stance before?"
Random 1: "Nope."
Random 2: "Yup."
Random 3: "Nope."

Then the person that has done it before goes on to give us info. It's all about communication. To say all random interaction would be bad is untrue. To say that randoms can't take you through some difficult end game content, that's also untrue.

That type of interaction is impossible in Destiny though. There's no text chat, and voice chat is only available to manually created fire teams. Matchmaking groups don't support any voice chat. There would literally be no possible way for players to communicate with each other in a pugged raid. Emotes notwithstanding.

You could argue that communication should perhaps be easier in Destiny, but I'm not so sure. It's a double edged sword. Especially with FPS communities. I must admit, I greatly enjoyed the multiplayer in Journey and Dark Souls precisely because there was no voice communication. I think that's the angle that Bungie is going for with Destiny. They just let you voice chat if you manually put together a fire team with your friends.
 

Karl Hawk

Banned
No. I don't think you do. You've given no tools to find the people to play with.

Either you know 5 other people to play with, or you don't.

I'm going to end up on reddit trying to form a raid group and spend the most frustrating time not having your content beat me, but nothing being able to actually form a group together.

You should use a gearscore for matchmaking and provide it. It's not like the clans will help, we can't type to each other.

You've basically said, "Bring your own". EQ was far more forgiving. I know. I was there from beta on. I could find guilds in /ooc, join them, and in /g decide to do content together.

You're not even offering that. I'm SOL doing your content no matter how dedicated I am in the game.

I still think they'll cave in, one way or another. Bungie made dumb decisions from time to time, but they're not idiots when it comes to feedback.
 

frequency

Member
Made no sense to me and still doesn't. The option wouldn't harm anyone's experience. Anyone so concerned about the difficulty could simply not use matchmaking.

It's because they feel that if there is matchmaking, then the raids will be "dumbed down" because the dirty casuals will cry too much that it's too hard.

Which is what happened with WoW. That's why Black Temple, Molten Core, etc are such hardcore raids that required insane skill levels and Dragon Soul, Siege of Orgrimmar, etc are such easy dumbed down faceroll raids that everyone could do them half asleep.

(Note: I'm being sarcastic. SoO is probably the most advanced WoW raid yet and the last statistic was that about 0.23% of the population had beaten Heroic Garrosh)

Anyway, if matchmaking really won't happen and Bungie won't budge, at least give us a chat or something in game.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Put a warning about how difficult it is on the screen before you enter into matchmaking, and after that let people crash and burn on their own; no need to adjust the difficulty, at that point Bungie can't be held accountable for how people spend their time. Honestly, I think after a certain point, the players who get frustrated with the mode would simply stop trying to play it, and the game mode would naturally filter itself out at that point, leaving mostly experienced/good players in the matchmaking pool.

That's usually what happens. The players do the weeding out themselves. Screwing things up for the team, you get the boot.

That type of interaction is impossible in Destiny though. There's no text chat, and voice chat is only available to manually created fire teams. Matchmaking groups don't support any voice chat. There would literally be no possible way for players to communicate with each other in a pugged raid. Emotes notwithstanding.

You could argue that communication should perhaps be easier in Destiny, but I'm not so sure. It's a double edged sword. Especially with FPS communities. I must admit, I greatly enjoyed the multiplayer in Journey and Dark Souls precisely because there was no voice communication. I think that's the angle that Bungie is going for with Destiny. They just let you voice chat if you manually put together a fire team with your friends.

That's something they need to change too. If you're in a group with somebody then voice chat needs to be on by default.
 

Nocturno999

Member
The entire point of content like this is to be difficult and exclusive. Being able to clear it easily only cheapens it.

I agree, even if it's going to be hard for me finding a group to participate, if ever, every MMO worth its money should have a few special epic dungeons that not any mortal should be able to clear.

As long as the regular content is plenty of course...
 
This is pretty dumb. Its good to have options. I have friends but they mainly play really late during the weekdays and I only play with them during weekends. Weekdays I just play with randoms and ive never had any issues with them. Sure I wish they had mics but randoms are good enough
 

TrueGrime

Member
That type of interaction is impossible in Destiny though. There's no text chat, and voice chat is only available to manually created fire teams. Matchmaking groups don't support any voice chat. There would literally be no possible way for players to communicate with each other in a pugged raid. Emotes notwithstanding.

You could argue that communication should perhaps be easier in Destiny, but I'm not so sure. It's a double edged sword. Especially with FPS communities. I must admit, I greatly enjoyed the multiplayer in Journey and Dark Souls precisely because there was no voice communication. I think that's the angle that Bungie is going for with Destiny. They just let you voice chat if you manually put together a fire team with your friends.

I played Destiny on the XB1 and I tell you the experience with voice chat was painful at best. A lot of it stemmed from not being able to utilize party chat. I can understand being forced into non-party chat for Crucible events but for PvE it should be there. In either case, I remember being at the Tower and being randomly asked to join a fire team. There was three of us and two didn't have mics. Even without communication we were competent enough to complete the strike mission. Even in the shooters I play now (Titanfall for instance) we have a group of friends that usually play together and at least one of us didn't have a mic, but played well. It's still possible. I don't think Bungie will revisit the matchmaking system. That would be one hell of an update to add.
 
I'd bet you're right, with extra special gnashing of teeth considering what advantages that Raid gear will have in PVP, especially Iron Banner but also in the standard normalized modes (because upgrades and cooldowns still count).

Bungie have previously said that the same level of gear will be available through PvP, so there will be no advantages to gain through excelling at one mode and bringing the stuff to the other.

I think most people understand this, but I repeat; This doesn't actually remove randoms from raiding. All it's doing is making it a chore to form a random group. If anything it's just adding a complaint on top of the complaints random groups would make. People keep talking like not having matchmaking is suddenly a giant locked gate to random grouping. It's not. All it is is an annoyance to those who choose to or can only do randoms. Why not just have the feature if they're going to do it anyway?

Instituting matchmaking wouldn't be the way to address this. Giving players better ways to create groups would be.
 

Biff

Member
My theory is that the first two mouse-wheel scrolls of a GAF thread greatly, greatly influence the initial sentiment of said GAF thread.

Somehow there was a combo of first posters who all somehow thought this was a great feature. The early dissenters were then dissuaded from posting at risk of going against consensus, based on the first set of posts they could read.

Takes a page for the real feelings to come out, but they do eventually. This is a completely backwards, terrible policy that sounds incredibly dogmatic of Bungie.
 

molnizzle

Member
That's something they need to change too. If you're in a group with somebody then voice chat needs to be on by default.

I dunno. I've had more negative experiences with random voice chat than positive ones. If they automatically put voice chat into matchmaking, would that apply to Crucible as well? I'd likely never play the mode again if I had to listen to teenagers smoke weed and call each other faggots between every round.

Limiting voice chat to manual fire teams only... I think I might actually support that. Though I won't know for sure until I get my hands on the full game and play some of the higher level strikes.
 

Jarmel

Banned
I dunno. I've had more negative experiences with random voice chat than positive ones. If they automatically put voice chat into matchmaking, would that apply to Crucible as well? I'd likely never play the mode again if I had to listen to teenagers smoke weed and call each other faggots between every round.

Limiting voice chat to manual fire teams only... I think I might actually support that. Though I won't know for sure until I get my hands on the full game and play some of the higher level strikes.

Have a mute all option. However I need to be able to communicate with the randoms in Crucible. Basic stuff like "we're losing A" is crucial.
 

Sevyne

Member
Instituting matchmaking wouldn't be the way to address this. Giving players better ways to create groups would be.

And that would be fine too. My main point was that people will find a way, so why not make it easier for them to? Right now it's a pain in the ass just for the sake of being a pain in the ass. If random folks could communicate with each other in some way to form groups, then I totally agree that it might be a better option than matchmaking. Unfortunately Bungie couldn't even be bothered to make communication in game easy for even Clans, so matchmaking just seems like a more realistic thing for them to do.
 

TrueGrime

Member
I think even if there was a holding area only accessible to people with the right level and credentials to do that particular mission that would be great. A holding area for randoms like the Tower. Then a party leader could observe players to see who they want to choose.
 

molnizzle

Member
I played Destiny on the XB1 and I tell you the experience with voice chat was painful at best. A lot of it stemmed from not being able to utilize party chat. I can understand being forced into non-party chat for Crucible events but for PvE it should be there.

What do you mean by that? Could you not use XBL party chat while playing Destiny? Because you definitely could on PSN. It was actually the only way to get decent audio quality (Bungie's integrated audio codecs were absolutely horrendous).
 

molnizzle

Member
Have a mute all option. However I need to be able to communicate with the randoms in Crucible. Basic stuff like "we're losing A" is crucial.

I'd say that you should be rolling with a party of friends if that level of coordination and communication is important to you.

"Mute all" is acceptable, but most games don't have that. Titanfall, for example.
 

TrueGrime

Member
What do you mean by that? Could you not use XBL party chat while playing Destiny? Because you definitely could on PSN. It was actually the only way to get decent audio quality (Bungie's integrated audio codecs were absolutely horrendous).

Nope. You could be in a party but couldn't use party chat if you were playing. We were forced to cut party chat altogether and the team leader would invite people to the screen where you choose where to go next. Where you see your ship. Then you could communicate using in-game chat.
 

Karl Hawk

Banned
Welp I know one thing to expect in a future patch.

Future patch? More like future DLC. /sarcasm

Seriously, I still can't believe some guy in this thread said Raid matchmaking will be DLC. How fucking cynical you have to be to believe that shit?

Why stop there? Solo PVP is harder than if you go into it with a group, cut that out too.

Bungie may have made stupid decisions, but they are NOT THAT STUPID.
 
Nope. You could be in a party but couldn't use party chat if you were playing. We were forced to cut party chat altogether and the team leader would invite people to the screen where you choose where to go next. Where you see your ship. Then you could communicate using in-game chat.

That was an annoying bug for sure. We had to form the party outside of Destiny then boot it up for it to work outside of being snapped.
 

liquidrage

Neo Member
I agree, even if it's going to be hard for me finding a group to participate, if ever, every MMO worth its money should have a few special epic dungeons that not any mortal should be able to clear.

As long as the regular content is plenty of course...

You've confused the content being difficult, with the ability to find people to do the content with being difficult. If the content beats you, well played. If the inability to find people to try with beats you, game over.
 

Authority

Banned
Sorry but you don't "fix" an issue by ignoring it. That is basic kindergarten common sense.

Why randoms are terribad players? That should be the first question not the answer of "randoms are terribad players".

And the answer is simple - Because the content,

  • Does not encourage or omit voice-com - "Who has TS/Skype,ect?"
  • Does not encourage or omit team communication - "Let's do this" = Wipe
  • Creates a solorider attitude - "Who needs friends or people?"
  • Creates a solitary mindset - "I can solo everything"
Basically the content does fuck all to prepare players to scale up through challenging content properly. It just says "Do this quest, follow this story mode, talk to this NPC" and voila magichappens and you have raid unlocked. Raid(s) should never be unlocked like that. You can't just throw people to content that requires extreme levels of patience, awareness and concentration. The system of difficulty should have build up every single player to understand that team effort and communication is a must. Do you want to know the success-and-fail ratio of random players with older MMOs? Every one out of two or three were good and some where even great at clearing hard content. That was a given fact back in the days. And back in the days if you had this X type of gear or this Y type of stat people knew, players knew you were good. How you were gearing up or how you were geared up was a big ass fuck factor. It was not handle to you. It was not easy but once you had it you knew you can do harder and more challenging stuff.
 

Two Words

Member
But they won't. Trust me. Blizzard tried this with cataclysm heroics and it ended in ruin. They tried it with the first flex raids and the flex raiders based blizzard until they made it raiding in super no fail mode(and people still fail).

This praise for no randoms isn't born from some sense of elitism. I sympathize with you. I went several wow expansions with no raiding due to not finding a guild. But I've also seen the result of attempting to mix high coordination content and random people. It ends up being a horrible experience for all.

This isn't Blizzard and Bungie seems rather intent on making me believe Destiny isn't an MMO. I don't see why they have to stick to MMO standards.
 
It's never really going to work because it's just not a very efficient way to make content.

The lesson of WoW LFR raiding is that a large vocal subset of hardcore raiders care as much or more about the public epeen gained by the exclusivity of their content than the actual challenge of the most challenging content.

Spending development resources trying to satisfy people who are more satisfied when less people can experience it? That's a very limiting way of developing content.
 
Bungie have previously said that the same level of gear will be available through PvP, so there will be no advantages to gain through excelling at one mode and bringing the stuff to the other.
Whats the point of a super impossible multi-hour raid if you could get the same quality of loot otherwise.

Of course, I'd still have fun actually playing through it, but I'm asking for the "it needs to be super exclusive" crowd.
 
Surprised how much people say this is good news...I don't think it is there is a large amount of players who will probably never even touch this kind of stuff unless you're hardcore member who dwells online gaming forums - i rather there be so sort of match making for the people that need it the people who don't need it will never need to use it anyways since they have their large group of friends or online community to play with..gotta give the third man some help.
 

Dirtbag

Member
I wonder how fast regenerating health, and the fact that all grenade abilities are basically different methods of dealing damage will limit combat roles. Wish characters had larger role differences amongst each other.
 
Whats the point of a super impossible multi-hour raid if you could get the same quality of loot otherwise.

Of course, I'd still have fun actually playing through it, but I'm asking for the "it needs to be super exclusive" crowd.

The unique look of the items and the status symbol that represents that you got it doing "X" activity.

People will know the "Gun of WTFPWNZORZ" came from the Raid while the "Gun of WTFBBQSAUCE" came from PvP. They'll be immediately recognizable at a glance as well. That's also why when you look at the Purple Tier gear that the vendors have.. they not only look different by design but also have color schemes unique to each vendor. So people will know how you got what you got, at a glance.
 

Nocturno999

Member
You've confused the content being difficult, with the ability to find people to do the content with being difficult. If the content beats you, well played. If the inability to find people to try with beats you, game over.

But why risk 2 hours of your time with strangers? It seems this content will
require a lot of coordination. You only need 1 or 2 morons to ruin it all.
 

Ridley327

Member
I wonder how fast regenerating health, and the fact that all grenade abilities are basically different methods of dealing damage will limit combat roles. Wish characters had larger role differences amongst each other.

They do when they hit their second subclasses. The supers for the Warlock and the Titan in those cases are strictly support-based.
 
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