Yeah. That was a great nod. McClane just giving not fucks just as Willis. Is so meta in itself.
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Die Hard: With A Vengeance was SO CLOSE to being better than the first...
- Thread starter SolidChamp
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Yeah. That was a great nod. McClane just giving not fucks just as Willis. Is so meta in itself.
Fancy Clown
Member
It wasn't that close to being better than the first tbh, but it's still a great flick. Too long though and it doesn't stick the landing. Easily the second best DIe Hard though.
One of my housemates in college obstinately declared Die Hard 2 to be the superior sequel, and it was the biggest source of tension in the house. Die Hard 2 isn't even as good as Live Free or Die Hard.
One of my housemates in college obstinately declared Die Hard 2 to be the superior sequel, and it was the biggest source of tension in the house. Die Hard 2 isn't even as good as Live Free or Die Hard.
silvermember
Banned
How does it feel to be wrong. WRONG I say, but seriously, you are wrong.
Fancy Clown
Member
Your housemates was right, though!
Die Hard 2 isn't fit to lick the sweat off of With a Vengeance's balls
I like DH2 over DH3 easily. I find Die Hard 3 the worst of the 4 Die Hard movies (fuck DH5 that thing doesn't exist).
My God yes, that's one of my biggest gripes of that movie too.
And you're right OP about all the small details. I recall having a conversation with a friend of mine about how they don't write action movies like that anymore. The way the story fleshed itself out in the first act was perfect and needed little to no music because a lot of the scenes weren't fast paced or stylistic. Instead the movie relied heavily on the dialogue between all the characters, which felt natural and intriguing.
TheWarrior
Banned
Gruber should have gotten away with it
Die Hard 2 also has a much better supporting cast of characters than Die Hard 3. Die Hard 3 is Willis, Jackson, and Irons and then the cast nose dives after that.
SolidChamp
Banned
I agree with you. Die Hard 2 isn't terrible, it's just very "meh", to me.
Die Hard 2 is the best sequel by a long fuckin way. It's got Bruce Willis just as good as he was in Die Hard 1, some brilliant dialogue and one liners, a fantastic cast of supporting actors, Colonel Stewart being an absolutely evil piece of shit who you want to see burn and some of the best action scenes of the series - like the Annex Skywalk. It's just as good as DHWAV on action scenes/McClane attitude alone, I honestly prefer its story and it has the better supporting cast. I don't care if it's considered a 'remake' of Die Hard 1, it's a damn fine action film. I also prefer McClane being alone rather than saddled with an actual partner/sidekick of some sort by his side but instead getting help now and again from others, like Marv and Al, just like it was Al in the first film.
Despite that I can at least understand someone saying they prefer Die Hard With A Vengeance, it's a great film and very enjoyable even if I don't like certain things about it, but if anyone says Die Hard 4 they can get the fuck out of here. It's not a Die Hard film, it's a lame ass PG13 action film with a heavily neutered McClane. It's near enough a generic action film without the Die Hard identity plus it has such a lame cast of characters compared to the first 3. Plus fuck me they made Tim Olyphant actually look bad! The guy's a great actor and he was just a whiny bitch for most of the film 'Don't do that McClane waaaaaaah' I thought the so called 'harder cut' might be something but it was obviously dubbed over, digitally altered nonsense, the film was obviously made as a PG13 but then the rating wasn't it's only problem. I don't even mind the action scenes being a bit more over the top compared to the previous films but I just didn't think they were particularly good, I'm really not a fan of Len Wiseman.
I didn't actually think it could get worse than that and then A Good Day To Die Hard comes and completely shits the fuckin bed and is just one of the plain worst action films made in recent years. It's absolutely fucking horrendous. The way that series went genuinely angers me, 3 great first films and then the last 2 made by a lazy Bruce Willis who only cares for the money.
Fuck Die Hard 4, especially fuck A Good Day To Die Hard and fuck Bruce Willis for making that garbage *RAGE*
Rant over and apologies, getting that out of my system felt good But seeing how that series went from a collection of 3 great films that I love to what it ended up as was so disappointing. At least Rocky had its 'Rocky Balboa/Creed' after Rocky V, I don't think we'll ever see another good Die Hard film.
Despite that I can at least understand someone saying they prefer Die Hard With A Vengeance, it's a great film and very enjoyable even if I don't like certain things about it, but if anyone says Die Hard 4 they can get the fuck out of here. It's not a Die Hard film, it's a lame ass PG13 action film with a heavily neutered McClane. It's near enough a generic action film without the Die Hard identity plus it has such a lame cast of characters compared to the first 3. Plus fuck me they made Tim Olyphant actually look bad! The guy's a great actor and he was just a whiny bitch for most of the film 'Don't do that McClane waaaaaaah' I thought the so called 'harder cut' might be something but it was obviously dubbed over, digitally altered nonsense, the film was obviously made as a PG13 but then the rating wasn't it's only problem. I don't even mind the action scenes being a bit more over the top compared to the previous films but I just didn't think they were particularly good, I'm really not a fan of Len Wiseman.
I didn't actually think it could get worse than that and then A Good Day To Die Hard comes and completely shits the fuckin bed and is just one of the plain worst action films made in recent years. It's absolutely fucking horrendous. The way that series went genuinely angers me, 3 great first films and then the last 2 made by a lazy Bruce Willis who only cares for the money.
Fuck Die Hard 4, especially fuck A Good Day To Die Hard and fuck Bruce Willis for making that garbage *RAGE*
Rant over and apologies, getting that out of my system felt good
But seeing how that series went from a collection of 3 great films that I love to what it ended up as was so disappointing. At least Rocky had its 'Rocky Balboa/Creed' after Rocky V, I don't think we'll ever see another good Die Hard film.That's great. Forever the real ending.
quickwhips
Member
Movie is good but nothing beats the first. One guy vs terrorist locked in a building.
I'm glad there's a bit of a Die Hard 2 defense force. I'll add in that Die Hard 2 might have the best use of the yipee-kay-yay catch phrase (Die Hard 4 is the other contender to that)
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
The ending feels stitched together because it was. The original ending had McClain killing Gruber with a rocket launcher in cold blood after being fired from the NYPD for letting them get away with the gold. The asprin bottle was always a part of the story, it's how he tracked Gruber down to play their final game.
Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-GqY-M5fE4
Test Audiences hated it so they came up with the ending as it is now.
Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-GqY-M5fE4
Test Audiences hated it so they came up with the ending as it is now.
I'm glad there's a bit of a Die Hard 2 defense force. I'll add in that Die Hard 2 might have the best use of the yipee-kay-yay catch phrase (Die Hard 4 is the other contender to that)
Unfortunately when I saw that I just thought 'fuck sake, for the PG13 rating' Die Hard 2 has my personal favourite use of that line with Die Hard 1 very close behind.
I'd also love to know how the hell did they go from at least an entertaining sidekick like Samuel L Jackson in DHWAV to Justin bloody Long in Die Hard 4 ? Fuck me *shakes head* Then again even Justin Long is better than that fucking charisma vacuum known as Jai Courtney.
Eh, I didn't mind the f-bomb being cut off by the gunshot. We know what he said. McClane wouldn't talk shit and then do something badass, he'd talk shit while doing something badass - which is what he did at the end of Die Hard 4.
I don't like either of the Die Hard 3 endings, to be honest. The original ending is boring since it's just Gruber and McClane talking, the entire situation feels very unlike McClane, and it feels like a bit of a downer ending since McClane basically loses everything by the end of the movie (whereas the other Die Hard movies all end on high notes). The theatrical ending of Die Hard 3 is just kind of lame and thrown together.
I don't know. I never liked either the official or alternative ending. It's a quiet and boring scene of John and Gruber talking. A rocket launcher goes off, a weak explosion, and that's it. It makes John McClane seem more like James Bond than someone struggling and succeeding against overwhelming odds. This ending just didn't do anything for me, and I think they could have come with something better.
family_guy
Member
Tell us more about how you feel. That said, I liked Die Hard 4 for what it was without needing to compare it to prior movies in the franchise.
I know I know, I went into a full on rant there. I grew up with the first 3 films and they are very special to me, of course I don't have anything against anyone that likes DH4
I just don't like it but ey opinions and all that.I would be genuinely shocked though if someone liked A Good Day To Die Hard.
I know I know, I went into a full on rant there. I grew up with the first 3 films and they are very special to me, of course I don't have anything against anyone that likes DH4
I would be genuinely shocked though if someone liked A Good Day To Die Hard.
Die Hard 4 logically continues the "Die Hard crisis escalation" trend of the franchise. So I guess that's why I'm okay with McClane basically going full superhero-tier in that movie. If the movie had any more logic to it, the movie would be really short because the terrorists would pull up McClane's profile, realize who the fuck he is, and then give up because there would be a giant warning that says "don't fuck with this man".
Die Hard 1 - John saves a building
Die Hard 2 - John saves an airport
Die Hard 3 - John saves New York
Die Hard 4 - John saves America
Die Hard 5 - John saves the world (from terrorists w/ nukes)
Die Hard 6 is going to have McClane saving space, book it.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I don't know what's going on in this thread, but I unabashedly love Die Hard: With A vengeance.
Die Hard 6 - Shuttlecock. It'll be about the third brother Das Gruber hijacking a prototype star destroyer like weapon and he threatens Earth and it's up to McClane to save the day as he accidentally finds his way into a shuttle which takes him up there.
He's blow the villain out the airlock whilst telling him his plan sucks and says the immortal line.
It would still be better than A Good Day To Die Hard
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I love this film to death. Easily one of the best partnering up protagonists on film ever.
There was a rumor on new DH where McClane and Zeus go to Japan or whever in honor of the Nakatomi anniversary.
There was a rumor on new DH where McClane and Zeus go to Japan or whever in honor of the Nakatomi anniversary.
Or Das Gruber threatens to destroy the Nakatomi Industrial Space Station in retaliation for his first brother's death (it's actually a ruse to steal some gold found on some space rocks), McClane is invited on board by accident.
Discotheque
Banned
2 is such a boring piece of crap. I dare say it's worse than 4 tbh
3 is such a fun sequel. Definitely loses steam by the end but man you really cant go wrong with Jeremy Irons and Samuel l Jackson when they're on their A game. And McClane was as good as ever as well
Don't think it's as tight as the first film was but it is a very worthy sequel, and it was very fun just having them run all around new york. Throw the rest in the dumpster
3 is such a fun sequel. Definitely loses steam by the end but man you really cant go wrong with Jeremy Irons and Samuel l Jackson when they're on their A game. And McClane was as good as ever as well
Don't think it's as tight as the first film was but it is a very worthy sequel, and it was very fun just having them run all around new york. Throw the rest in the dumpster
AgentOtaku
Member
Fuck.... I need to watch this again
thank you OP and yes, I completely and utterly agree with your excellent post (^____^)
thank you OP and yes, I completely and utterly agree with your excellent post (^____^)
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Well, you (OP) just discovered the value of characterization, congratulations. It's still not a good movie, not because of the ending, but because none of the supposed bad guys actually kill anyone (not even off-screen) and then this asshole walks up to them and just casually murders EVERYONE.
Hans Gruber by contrast, was set up to be a overzealous robber who did not mind killing, and so when McClane foiled that scheme, his death was a result of his own actions. With the third movie, you're kind of thinking McClane should be behind bars and Gruber would be killed in the following mutiny of 'what kind of psychopath did you sent us against'. Or at least that's what I was thinking on a relatively recent rewatch.
Other than that, it's a good action movie. But the original is just a little tighter storywise, which is why it is on top, with Vengeance brooding in place two.
(imo)
Hans Gruber by contrast, was set up to be a overzealous robber who did not mind killing, and so when McClane foiled that scheme, his death was a result of his own actions. With the third movie, you're kind of thinking McClane should be behind bars and Gruber would be killed in the following mutiny of 'what kind of psychopath did you sent us against'. Or at least that's what I was thinking on a relatively recent rewatch.
Other than that, it's a good action movie. But the original is just a little tighter storywise, which is why it is on top, with Vengeance brooding in place two.
(imo)
SolidChamp
Banned
Perfect.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I agree a lot of what you said about the first half. One of the many great aspects about the first Die Hard was how much detail they give to the contained world of the Nakotomi Tower and the surrounding observers. New York expands the canvas, but the movie still sketches out a lot of NYC as a real place. I LOVE the NYC supporting cast like you mentioned. I love when the fat guy with the glasses throws that small explosion in the office and the blond yells out his name, "CHARLEY YOU'RE GONNA WEAR THAT BOMB UP YOUR ASS!" "Christ, Charley" "Like I said, very cool stuff!". Like this feels like they all know each other, their rhythms, that they have lives and careers that existed outside this movie. Another little moment with Pamela tries to get info and Walsh bullshits around it. "C'mon Pamela, look at your watch. It's coming up on shift change! The big Hangner are worred about overtime so we send everybody back to the free center to punch out." "You are so full of shit, Walsh!" "Thank you..." he bows with at playful little musical flourish from Michael Kamen.
LOVE all that shit. The second half of the film really takes it down though. The film's central conceit sputters out and its only working on sheer momentum of its setpieces and a lot of the strengths of the primaries. John McClane surfing a truck before shooting out of a manhole 30 feet in the air and Zeus just happens to be there and there are bullets before you can ask questions and they're flying off to the next crazy thing. Even then though, I love all the cops getting in on the action with the school bomb sub-plot, I love Willis' performance throughout as John McClane ant not a Bruce Willis caricature he does in other films, McTiernan's smooth directing and Michael Kamen's score). Both endings are TERRRRRRIBLE, one where its like "oh yeah we forgot to have a real climax also Zeus is here for some reason and here's that forced catchphrase" and the alternative is just...weird, stilted, and mean-spirited.
I love the little stuff too, like the German bad guys fucking up the American saying and kinda stumbling over it, before changing topics quickly, "Yeah, it feels like its..gonna rain like, dogs and cats later. Detective Otto, isn't it!". I love the payoff of the Truck Driver and all his useless trivia actually being key to solving a piece of the puzzle. I love how casually Gruber talks with and disarms Zeus's gun before shooting him. "*eats egg* Gotta take the safety catch off. *bang* Now it works..."
LOVE all that shit. The second half of the film really takes it down though. The film's central conceit sputters out and its only working on sheer momentum of its setpieces and a lot of the strengths of the primaries. John McClane surfing a truck before shooting out of a manhole 30 feet in the air and Zeus just happens to be there and there are bullets before you can ask questions and they're flying off to the next crazy thing. Even then though, I love all the cops getting in on the action with the school bomb sub-plot, I love Willis' performance throughout as John McClane ant not a Bruce Willis caricature he does in other films, McTiernan's smooth directing and Michael Kamen's score). Both endings are TERRRRRRIBLE, one where its like "oh yeah we forgot to have a real climax also Zeus is here for some reason and here's that forced catchphrase" and the alternative is just...weird, stilted, and mean-spirited.
I love the little stuff too, like the German bad guys fucking up the American saying and kinda stumbling over it, before changing topics quickly, "Yeah, it feels like its..gonna rain like, dogs and cats later. Detective Otto, isn't it!". I love the payoff of the Truck Driver and all his useless trivia actually being key to solving a piece of the puzzle. I love how casually Gruber talks with and disarms Zeus's gun before shooting him. "*eats egg* Gotta take the safety catch off. *bang* Now it works..."
catapult37
Member
Love this movie, but every time I hear the score, all I think is "the ants go marching one by one..."
It's my second favorite DH movie, that's for sure.
Depending on what day it is, it'll be my favorite.
I do agree with everyone here, however; once McClane gets shot out of the manhole, the movie quality takes a hit.
Not enough of a hit for me to dislike it, however.
"Don't you have any kids, McClane? It's an elephant joke!"
Depending on what day it is, it'll be my favorite.
I do agree with everyone here, however; once McClane gets shot out of the manhole, the movie quality takes a hit.
Not enough of a hit for me to dislike it, however.
"Don't you have any kids, McClane? It's an elephant joke!"
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Die Hard 6 will hopefully pretend Die Hard 5 never existed, because it's so forgettable it practically doesn't.
I really love 1. Enjoy 2. Love 3 a lot. Really enjoy 4. Don't even remember 5 at all but I know I hated it.
Die Hard 1 is a perfect movie-and really amazing in a lot of really simple ways. For one-the centerfold pinup that John keeps passing by-that one prop is used to mark the location in the otherwise "same" looking rooms-it gives you a sense of where he's going without having to use dialogue. The whole movie is filled with stuff like that.
Die Hard 3 is a film I really love. They filmed parts of it in South Carolina when I lived there which is insane because the movie takes place in New York. The scene where they jump from the bridge to the boat is the Cooper River Bridge in Charleston. Additionally the subway scene was in a studio built in South Carolina.
Die Hard 3 is a film I really love. They filmed parts of it in South Carolina when I lived there which is insane because the movie takes place in New York. The scene where they jump from the bridge to the boat is the Cooper River Bridge in Charleston. Additionally the subway scene was in a studio built in South Carolina.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Seeing how shitty DH2 turned out, I'm so happy that script didn't become Commando 2.
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