It's a modernized Wii U with a better CPU in handheld mode, and a Wii U Pro (but for 1080p) in docked mode. Basically, BotW will look identical to the Wii U version in handheld mode (but with less frame rate drops due to the better CPU), and in docked mode it'll run at 1080p with no other upgrades and an equal or worse framerate to handheld mode. If a game can't come to Wii U due to power (note that not all games that can't run on Wii U are do to its raw power), it can't come to Switch either because all games are required to support the handheld mode.
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Digital Foundry: Nintendo Switch CPU and GPU clock speeds revealed
- Thread starter Vashetti
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It's a modernized Wii U with a better CPU in handheld mode, and a Wii U Pro (but for 1080p) in docked mode. Basically, BotW will look identical to the Wii U version in handheld mode (but with less frame rate drops due to the better CPU), and in docked mode it'll run at 1080p with no other upgrades and an equal or worse framerate to handheld mode. If a game can't come to Wii U due to power (note that not all games that can't run on Wii U are do to its raw power), it can't come to Switch either because all games are required to support the handheld mode.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
In portable version, somewhat better.
In TV version, noticeably better.
That's my sense, I'm no tech-head.
GhostTrick
Banned
Cookie Dough
Member
I don't think you realise just how expensive Gsync stickers are to produce.
I just mean that it's Wii U-level performance with modern hardware, which is true.
The only other thing that would possibly give 3 SM on a 20nm node is that they finished designing this really early that a 16nmFF shrink couldn't happen.
As pointed out though, adding another SM would be expensive compared to a die shrink. Things are just really unknown at the moment.
Don't tell me Nintendo never learned anything after the Wii U and just like how Iwata constrained the Wii U by saying it has to be no bigger than 3 DVDs cases tall (on their side), someone probably said the Switch only had to be as powerful as a Wii U because everyone loved it so much regarding power. lol
You cannot compare them just by looking at MHz count. Xbone has 12 AMD GPU "clusters" that run at 800mhz and PS4 has 18 [a bit more advanced] active clusters that run at 853 MHz.
Switch has a high mgz count when docked, but it only has 4 small Nvidia GPU clusters onboard [256 cuda cores]. For example, GTX1060 [let's say equivalent of what is in PS4 Pro] has 1280 cuda cores [and more texture units, ROPs and way higher clocks [2x of switch in docked mode]].
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/8811/X1-GPU.png
Switch is way below what Xbone and PS4 can do. It uses essentially modern mobile tech that utilizes few watts of power, and even then, it downclocks agresivley from simmilar products that run on the same Tegra X1 platform.
And all of this is only the GPU part. CPU and Memory bandwith also plays a big role, and Switch is also fully in the "mobile space" there.
Less pure floppage than Wii U when docked (150ish vs 180ish) although it might be more efficient and therefore graphically superior. About 2 and a bit Wii U's docked but maybe used to get to 1080p. Therefore, it could end up being about Wii U level graphics on Handheld and TV (@ 1080)
Basically if you liked had a Wii U, prepare for more of the same.
Wii U was already sold at a loss. You think Nintendo should have taken a $100+ loss per unit? The choices were to sell it at that price, or to cancel it and go third-party for a generation.
Actually, you're annoying too. Ignored.
reelbigtink
Member
I felt Wii U games looked fine but surely this mean a faster OS? That was my single biggest problem with the Wii U and 3DS.
GhostTrick
Banned
Wow. Just because you're upset by these specs doesn't give you the right to threat people like shit. You should take a break from the internet for a few moments. Really.
The problem was Nintendo thought they could charge PS4 levels of money for that thing. I almost think they should have cancelled it to be honest. The iPhone came along in 2007 and within 2 years showed it was basically going to own the universe. iPad in 2010, 2 years before Wii U. Nintendo should have known well before Wii U released it was going to fail miserably. Then they spent 4 years losing money, Which would have been best?
Colonel Mustard
Banned
I thought your hyperbole was sorta tongue and cheek at first. Turns out you're just a fucking baby. Grow up.
It's 2 clusters, but you have the CUDA core count correct.
That guy always has something to say to me. It's like he's my biggest fan. When I don't like someone, I just laugh and ignore them. He can do the same.
calc84maniac
Member
Except you just said the CPU is better. So the Switch could still get games that couldn't have come to Wii U.
And I still imagine that most developers will target the console mode, and the handheld mode will sort itself out with a scaled down resolution.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
It's impossible to do.
You want great power and great portability but you don't want to pay more than a few hundred dollars. Why do you think a Surface book with dedicated graphics cost over 2000 dollars? Because you're paying serious, serious diminishing returns. You want to crack as much power into a power efficient base. Battery efficiency is very expensive.
And then you get the nightmare limbo effect. you're making not a great portable and not a great dedicated home console. you get this wishy washy hybrid offspring that wants to be both but ends up being neither.
If they sold Switch for a thousand dollars it could be different. It could be more. But there is no way you can pack in the energy cells at this price point. the only option is to gimp the power to make it sensible as a mobile device.
god fucking dammit. Lithium Batteries are holding us back. We're not going anywhere until we solve this bullshit!!
You want great power and great portability but you don't want to pay more than a few hundred dollars. Why do you think a Surface book with dedicated graphics cost over 2000 dollars? Because you're paying serious, serious diminishing returns. You want to crack as much power into a power efficient base. Battery efficiency is very expensive.
And then you get the nightmare limbo effect. you're making not a great portable and not a great dedicated home console. you get this wishy washy hybrid offspring that wants to be both but ends up being neither.
If they sold Switch for a thousand dollars it could be different. It could be more. But there is no way you can pack in the energy cells at this price point. the only option is to gimp the power to make it sensible as a mobile device.
god fucking dammit. Lithium Batteries are holding us back. We're not going anywhere until we solve this bullshit!!
It's not much better. It's at best half as good as PS4's.
Which is already severely CPU constrained in many games. Sigh I need to get out of this thread I'm just depressing myself.
GhostTrick
Banned
It is possible to do. Just go for a bigger battery. What are the odds Switch has a sub 4000mah battery when it should have a 6000mah one ?
It actually was possible to make this device.
3SM Pascal GPU, downclocked to 333mhz undocked with a 6000mah battery.
When docked, boost all the way up to 999Mhz. There it is.
You won't have to worry about any of those games hitting the Switch.
Me_Marcadet
Member
My main issue is the power difference between docked and hh mode. The ps4 pro proved that it was very difficult for devs to hit good performance with a two tiered spec system. They have to make sacrifices in order to hit higher resolution or keep the framerate stable.
Development for the switch will be a headache and I fear the lack of consistency between the two modes.
If games won't be hitting native resolution, I would be so disappointed.
Development for the switch will be a headache and I fear the lack of consistency between the two modes.
If games won't be hitting native resolution, I would be so disappointed.
The Switch serving as a console doesn't hurt Nintendo in the west at all as here stationary gaming consoles are more popular, nevermind as a hybrid it serves as both seamlessly anyway which I feel has good appeal in the west if marketed as the trailer has indicated.
Even though this still serves perfectly fine as a handheld, Japan is an definitely an uncertainty. We haven't seen specific marketing for that segment yet.
And just like the XL is the best selling version of the 3DS, even though it is the most expensive one at $199, the Switch can easily justify its price in the portable market place as well with being a way higher quality product. I don't see any clear indication here that the price is going to hurt it and that there is any threshold when it comes to price.
Poimandres
Member
THIS is the crux of the issue at the moment... we need some real advancements in battery technology.
I feel pretty bad for Nintendo here, because they are at the mercy of battery tech.
What are the odds that they were initially planning on not having such slow clock speeds but were forced to meet their battery perfromance needs?
Scrotum Phillips
Member
Mannn, I just want to love you again, Nintendo! But you are making it so tough... I loved the Gamecube (and all past systems), was disappointed with the the Wii and skipped Wii U and I've been jonesing for a new Nintendo system because of that.
The portable gaming aspect unfortunately means nothing to me and already slightly bummed me out that it will add to the cost of the system. Haven't been following this Switch rumors super closely, but i'm shocked that performance-wise this seems like a "Pro" version of a system that was underpowered at its release about 4.5 years earlier then the projected Switch launch. Obviously graphical prowess isn't the reason I was anticipating getting the Switch, but yikes.
I'm still probably getting one at or near launch, but my hypes been seriously deflated. Hoping for something good at the reveal because it was fun being excited about Nintendo again.
The portable gaming aspect unfortunately means nothing to me and already slightly bummed me out that it will add to the cost of the system. Haven't been following this Switch rumors super closely, but i'm shocked that performance-wise this seems like a "Pro" version of a system that was underpowered at its release about 4.5 years earlier then the projected Switch launch. Obviously graphical prowess isn't the reason I was anticipating getting the Switch, but yikes.
I'm still probably getting one at or near launch, but my hypes been seriously deflated. Hoping for something good at the reveal because it was fun being excited about Nintendo again.
-Mutsukki-
Member
I think the Switch was made more with the Japanese market in mind than the West. Japan doesn't really care that much about console power, I think Nintendo is trying to keep it close to home this time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Wii U do relatively well there too? Or was it utterly crushed by the PS4? I'm under the assumption that Japan doesn't really care about the PS4 either, as much as they didn't care about the Wii U
What, bad for Nintendo? Bullshit. They could get a WAY more powerful machine if they just decided to care about console gamers or not be anal about battery.
calc84maniac
Member
I see a ton of people on this very forum being anal about battery. It's a lose-lose, you can't make everybody happy.
lwilliams3
Member
lol yeah. There were websites that had that CPU clocked up to well over 1GHz, and the GPU at 400MHz. That system did perform beyond its weight. I expect the Switch to do the same.
Stronger CPU
Probably at least 1.5x the GPU performance undocked, 3-4x docked, and 2x that with Fp16
Dx12 equivalent shaders vs Dx10 equivalent
3.2x RAM
At least 2x main RAM speed
Much greater Dev-tool support
I guess you can say like a "XB1-lite" while docked. Its architecturally very different from the Wii U.
Poimandres
Member
Well yeah, if they weren't trying to walk the hybrid tight rope.
I feel bad for them because battery tech isn't where it should be... and perhaps not where their internal projections when going through R&D predicted it would be at this stage.
-Mutsukki-
Member
People were having meltdowns because rumors said 3 - 5 hours of battery life.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
The issue with a lot of this to me is in how art styles are handled and why I prefer some last gen games over something like second son that looks flat and very boring to me
The Wii U tanked in Japan but it had some pretty good software success. The PS4 is managing to be on par with the PS3 but can't make up for the overall declining Japanese market.
I just really can't judge market conditions in Japan as I have no clue of their culture and general living situation currently so I don't know for example how important the size of the Switch is for it to be a hindrance. I know everyone loves big screens and tablets in the west but no clue how they fare in Japan.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
What if all if this is a controlled leak, a ruse if you will, to give a false impression of poor performance that'll shock and surprise come January when the Switch is revealed to be not only more powerful than the PS4 Pro but also MGSV: Chapter 3?
That must be it. Thank christ.
Astral Dog
Member
lol, MuchoMalo is cracking me up XD
At least it will have much more RAM to play.
At least it will have much more RAM to play.
And yet it's very likely they are using an outdated node & architecture, which is going to cost them heavily in heat output and power consumption.
lwilliams3
Member
I think the Wii U's CPU was over 7x weaker than the PS4s. That extra CPU power will make a big difference. According to Matt, the system is not as "CPU-limited" as the others, so it will interesting to see if he stands by his statement the next time he appears.
-Mutsukki-
Member
According to this (I don't know how accurate it is, but it doesn't use vg chartz so that's something) PS4 was predicted to suprass Wii U soon earlier this year.
http://en.rocketnews24.com/2016/09/20/japans-most-popular-game-console-ps4-sales-to-surpass-wii-u/
I think Splatoon pretty much boosted sales a whole lot there and I think it might have helped them decide what focus they wanted to take with the Switch. Even if the Wii U had a head start of one year ahead of the PS4, it's also severely underpowered, so it had some good 2 - 3 years of being ahead of the PS4. (I get that that doesn't mean much anyway, declining console market and all)
By the way, I hate that it's really hard to find reliable sales numbers because of fucking vg chartz. Why is that website still around
D.Lo
Member
Wii U and PS4 have currently sold almost exactly the same number in Japan...
Yes PS4 still has life left and released a year later, but reality is both tanked pretty much to the same level.
Japan is easy, just use GAF Media Create threads where it is all collated beautifully.
Poimandres
Member
Yeah that's... uh... not great.
Astral Dog
Member
I would still love to play Bloostained Ritual of the Night on Switch 😃
pixelation
Member
I don't see it...
pixelpatr0n
Banned
We're really gonna be that upset to have a handheld with visuals better than what's above for less than 250? Plus finally a hope for a decent version of emulated back catalog virtual console games of official Nintendo classics? Gaf get a hold of yourself and be happy. I'm still super excited for the Switch, and couldn't be happier with Nintendo's new direction. There is no separate handheld and console divisions at Nintendo anymore. This is huge!
I mean let's be honest here, it's not like a lot of third parties we're gonna support this thing in the first place unless Nintendo can hit a home run with the number of launch units sold. Plus most will just port their older PS3 360 remasters over new riskier ventures just to see if there is any reason to greenlight an actual new console exclusive. Sure there might be a few indie style games, but those of you expecting major new IPs at launch from third parties are gonna be met with disappointment. I hope I'm wrong, but nothing tells me otherwise based on how poorly they launched the WiiU and fumbled the 3DS at launch as well with it being overpriced. Hopefully Nintendo learned something, but with the poor reception of Super Mario Run and the completely inadequate inventory of the NES classic, I'm not too optimistic.
All that said I'm still super excited about playing Zelda, Mario, and hopefully Metroid, and Rocket League on this thing next year! ANYWHERE I WANT TO!!!
Enthusiasts always underestimate difficulty in engineering, whether it is software or hardware.
ShadowFox08
Member
You're counting the architectural differences I see.
I'd actually be okay to settle for those specs until we get our inevitible scd or jump to ps4-ps4 pro power switch console with VR support. Just as long as the 3rd party games sell, that's all it matters.. But god I hate it when Nintendo is sticking themselves in the last generation two times in a row now. Great specs for handheld, but I wish they just advertised that explicitly prioritized handhelds in their advertisements for these specs.
It does make sense now though with what we've seen so far in the commercials, and even in the jimmy fallon segment.Wish it was more more powerful than simply wii u with a resolution bump to 1080p.
ShadowFox08
Member
We're really gonna be that upset to have a handheld with visuals better than what's above for less than 250? Plus finally a hope for a decent version of emulated back catalog virtual console games of official Nintendo classics? Gaf get a hold of yourself and be happy. I'm still super excited for the Switch, and couldn't be happier with Nintendo's new direction. There is no separate handheld and console divisions at Nintendo anymore. This is huge!
I mean let's be honest here, it's not like a lot of third parties we're gonna support this thing in the first place unless Nintendo can hit a home run with the number of launch units sold. Plus most will just port their older PS3 360 remasters over new riskier ventures just to see if there is any reason to greenlight an actual new console exclusive. Sure there might be a few indie style games, but those of you expecting major new IPs at launch from third parties are gonna be met with disappointment. I hope I'm wrong, but nothing tells me otherwise based on how poorly they launched the WiiU and fumbled the 3DS at launch as well with it being overpriced. Hopefully Nintendo learned something, but with the poor reception of Super Mario Run and the completely inadequate inventory of the NES classic, I'm not too optimistic.
All that said I'm still super excited about playing Zelda, Mario, and hopefully Metroid, and Rocket League on this thing next year! ANYWHERE I WANT TO!!!
It's not going to be less than $250. knowing nintendo + laura kate dale's rumors, the 250 and 300 bundles seem the most likely.
hooijdonk17
Member
Technically, yes it's superior to the Wii U. Practically, that doesn't mean shit because the Wii U CPU is a POS 1.2GHz 32-bit Triple-core PPC akin to what you find in an XBOX 360 and effectively inferior to budget smartphone CPUs these days. It's not a generation old but in fact two generations old. At the end of the day, they may have as well not even bothered; they could have used an 8 core Zen and it still wouldn't compensate for the weaksauce GPU (2 SMs? REALLY?) and terrible bandwidth (XBOX 360 levels of 25GBps - WTF?!?!?!) bottlenecks of this thing. It reeks of classic Nintendo cheapness.
lwilliams3
Member
It's much more than Wii U 1080p, though. For example, can you imagine what Monolith can do with all of that 3.2x the RAM, a more modern shader system, and a much stronger CPU?
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