I see, this surprises me. For XBOX360 they had a close to the metal version of DX if I remember correctly?Xbox One development is via DirectX and Xbox SDK. You can't direct access hardware now. You're even limited to your HyperV VM container.
I see, this surprises me. For XBOX360 they had a close to the metal version of DX if I remember correctly?Xbox One development is via DirectX and Xbox SDK. You can't direct access hardware now. You're even limited to your HyperV VM container.
I see, this surprises me. For XBOX360 they had a close to the metal version of DX if I remember correctly?
Xbox One development is via DirectX and Xbox SDK. You can't direct access hardware now. You're even limited to your HyperV VM container.
That said, DirectX 12's goal is to unlock the lower level calls (via API calls). Xbox One has a 1.75ghz core CPU with 8 cores, 6 usable (+1 part usable), so everything needs to be as multicore as possible. In this case, Xbox is driving the market here, with *significant* gains for PC gamers.
PS: XB1 gfx chip is AMD.
Each XDK that has been released both before and after the Xbox One launch has brought faster and faster draw-calls to the table. They added tons of features just to work around limitations of the DX11 API model. They even made a DX12/GNM style do-it-yourself API available
I see, this surprises me. For XBOX360 they had a close to the metal version of DX if I remember correctly?
it's probably already been said somewhere in this thread, but a 20% gpu boost to the xbone is a pretty big deal
http://m.windowscentral.com/what-microsoft-revealed-about-xbox-and-windows-10-today-gdc
it's probably already been said somewhere in this thread, but a 20% gpu boost to the xbone is a pretty big deal
http://m.windowscentral.com/what-microsoft-revealed-about-xbox-and-windows-10-today-gdc
Source? AFAIK you can "write to the metal" since before launch, plus the devs of Metro said this last year
You cannot do anything on XB1. True story. MS have been very very good at working with and listening to developers at unlocking things via SDK. Eg you can do more work via multicore already. Example, core 7 is now part usable (shared with OS), when it wasn't at launch. There's also an SDK API layer to turn off Kinect sensor, which frees up the reservations.
it's probably already been said somewhere in this thread, but a 20% gpu boost to the xbone is a pretty big deal
http://m.windowscentral.com/what-microsoft-revealed-about-xbox-and-windows-10-today-gdc
it's probably already been said somewhere in this thread, but a 20% gpu boost to the xbone is a pretty big deal
http://m.windowscentral.com/what-microsoft-revealed-about-xbox-and-windows-10-today-gdc
You cannot do anything on XB1. True story. MS have been very very good at working with and listening to developers at unlocking things via SDK. Eg you can do more work via multicore already. Example, core 7 is now part usable (shared with OS), when it wasn't at launch. There's also an SDK API layer to turn off Kinect sensor, which frees up the reservations.
Please enlighten me then, because everything I've seen has shown them to be mostly equivalent performance wise.
oh, and something that isn't Civ 5
I remembered that, the way the article was written though I figured it was affecting the xbone too.lol no
That figure was for the PC version of Fable Legends.
how do you fuck that up though?!There's no 20% GPU boost. Please rewatch the full keynote instead of quoting journos who don't have clue.
someone else has posted. as for your second statement, are we to presume then that the circle 5 dev was worrying about a whole lot of nothing?Yeah, that quote was for DX12 version of Fable on PC and has no relation to Xbox One. There is a rather lengthy thread on this somewhere around here.
As for DX12 somehow making a game harder to run on PS4 - that's a complete nonsense. Nothing will change in multiplatform development with DX12 (I consider Win PC and Xbox One to be one platform already).
ah, no I do remember that thread but when I came across that article I thought that maybe it was affecting the xbone as well. but thanks.Probably you missed this thread. I'm sorry to disappoint you!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1003987
it's probably already been said somewhere in this thread, but a 20% gpu boost to the xbone is a pretty big deal
http://m.windowscentral.com/what-microsoft-revealed-about-xbox-and-windows-10-today-gdc
how do you fuck that up though?!
During the lifetime of 360 development MS unlocked a significant portion of direct access. It's happening here, however MS are trying to do it in a much more controlled fashion this time. And rightly so, it means all titles will potentially have big performance gains via DX12, rather than just Big Boy(tm) developers.
buyers of 970/980 are going to be pissed.
In hindsight, it will be awhile for windows 10 to come out right?
someone else has posted. as for your second statement, are we to presume then that the circle 5 dev was worrying about a whole lot of nothing?
http://gamingbolt.com/dx12-adoption...production-cross-support-with-ps4-is-a-factor
.
Except it is mostly the Big Boy developers that will use and have the expertise to use low level apis. DX12 isn't a drop in replacement to DX11.
During the lifetime of 360 development MS unlocked a significant portion of direct access. It's happening here, however MS are trying to do it in a much more controlled fashion this time. And rightly so, it means all titles will potentially have big performance gains via DX12, rather than just Big Boy(tm) developers.
Except it is mostly the Big Boy developers that will use and have the expertise to use low level apis. DX12 isn't a drop in replacement to DX11.
That was my point.
it's probably already been said somewhere in this thread, but a 20% gpu boost to the xbone is a pretty big deal
http://m.windowscentral.com/what-microsoft-revealed-about-xbox-and-windows-10-today-gdc
someone else has posted. as for your second statement, are we to presume then that the circle 5 dev was worrying about a whole lot of nothing?
http://gamingbolt.com/dx12-adoption...production-cross-support-with-ps4-is-a-factor
So all these developers who are using DX (11.X) on the Xbox One right now are making a calculated decision to not release these games on PS4, am I right?The biggest catch with it right now is the support fragmentation with PS4. There are around 20 million PS4s on the market right now and if a developer pursues DX they’re making a calculated decision to not release to that user base.
Even the wording on that link makes no sense whatsoever:
So all these developers who are using DX (11.X) on the Xbox One right now are making a calculated decision to not release these games on PS4, am I right?
If Xbox One fully supported DX12 Microsoft would have said it by now The fact that they haven't makes it pretty obvious it does not.
The 20% GPU boost came from Fable Legends converting from DX11 to DX12. Also has it been confirmed that xbox one won't support all of dx12 hardware features?
There's currently no way of knowing what is in the standard to support it in the first place. It's like trying to find a browser that fully supports HTML5 when HTML5 wasn't even fully standardized.GCN 1.0-1.2 does not support all hardware features of DX 12.1. So there's that.
You've missed the GDC info I take it? It is known what a GPU have to support to be compatible with 12.0 or 12.1 feature levels. It is most certain that current GCN won't support 12.1. There is a possibility that they will support 12.0. But to be fully DX12 a GPU need to support 12.1, and right now only Maxwell 2 GPUs are capable of that.There's currently no way of knowing what is in the standard to support it in the first place. It's like trying to find a browser that fully supports HTML5 when HTML5 wasn't even fully standardized.
You've missed the GDC info I take it? It is known what a GPU have to support to be compatible with 12.0 or 12.1 feature levels. It is most certain that current GCN won't support 12.1. There is a possibility that they will support 12.0. But to be fully DX12 a GPU need to support 12.1, and right now only Maxwell 2 GPUs are capable of that.
I am sure that any new GPU could actually support the upcoming standard. AMD is part of the group that acutally develops the Direct3D standard after all.You've missed the GDC info I take it? It is known what a GPU have to support to be compatible with 12.0 or 12.1 feature levels. It is most certain that current GCN won't support 12.1. There is a possibility that they will support 12.0. But to be fully DX12 a GPU need to support 12.1, and right now only Maxwell 2 GPUs are capable of that.
AMD have confirmed that all GCN cards support feature level 12_0. Like Fermi and Kepler.
Maxwell support 4 DX12 hardware features.
I am sure that any new GPU could actually support the upcoming standard. AMD is part of the group that acutally develops the Direct3D standard after all.
I just meant that we don't fully know what that standards fully entaily yet, except the broad goals. These special hardware operations, that were shown in a slide a while ago, didn't seem too important to me, maybe useful for a few edge-cases, where they could make things faster.
I wonder if feature level 12_0 is going to be much slower in actual games then a GPU with feature level 12_3. Maybe a few percent in benchmarks ?
http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-says-gcn-products-will-support-dx12-amd-freesync-still-coming_137794a. Where did AMD confirm that?
Hum I may be confused then, I thought Fermi supported DX12 but no dx12 hardware features so which feature level does this correspond to ? 11_0 ?b. Fermi and Kepler certainly won't support FL 12_0 and unlikely to support 11_1 as well.
c. Maxwell 2 support FL 12_1.
Well until we have any official data on Fiji we can only guess from the leaks. But it is strange that AMD didn't say that they support 12.1 and opted for saying that they support Tier 3 of resource binding feature instead. That kinda say to me that they might not support FL 12_1 in Fiji.
There is no FL 12_3.
12_0 and/or 11_3.Hum I may be confused then, I thought Fermi supported DX12 but no dx12 hardware features so which feature level does this correspond to ? 11_0 ?
Hum I may be confused then, I thought Fermi supported DX12 but no dx12 hardware features so which feature level does this correspond to ? 11_0 ?
There's nothing there about hardware feature levels.
That's the confirmation that they'll have WDDM2.0 drivers for GCN chips basically. Meaning that GCN will be able to use "thin API" advantage that DX12 is providing. This doesn't say anything about features supported by the hardware though. GCN chips support FL 11_1 in DX11 currently and this may be the case with DX12 as well. Although I have a feeling that FL 12_0 is what Xbox One will support basically and that means that at least GCN 1.1+ should support FL 12_0 as well.
Yes. Fermi and Kepler will have WDDM2.0 drivers (like old GCN chips) and will be able to use "thin" DX12 API but their hardware feature support is likely to be limited to FL 11_0.Hum I may be confused then, I thought Fermi supported DX12 but no dx12 hardware features so which feature level does this correspond to ? 11_0 ?
I guess they will support dx12_1 at the very least.
DX12_0 corresponds to DX11_2.
DX12_1 corresponds to DX11_3.
That's the confirmation that they'll have WDDM2.0 drivers for GCN chips basically. Meaning that GCN will be able to use "thin API" advantage that DX12 is providing. This doesn't say anything about features supported by the hardware though. GCN chips support FL 11_1 in DX11 currently and this may be the case with DX12 as well.
Unless MS announced some new FLs for DX11 in Win10 and I've missed that there are no 11_2 and 11_3.
DX12_0 corresponds to DX11_2.
DX12_1 corresponds to DX11_3.
There's nothing there about hardware feature levels.
That's the confirmation that they'll have WDDM2.0 drivers for GCN chips basically. Meaning that GCN will be able to use "thin API" advantage that DX12 is providing. This doesn't say anything about features supported by the hardware though. GCN chips support FL 11_1 in DX11 currently and this may be the case with DX12 as well. Although I have a feeling that FL 12_0 is what Xbox One will support basically and that means that at least GCN 1.1+ should support FL 12_0 as well.
Yes. Fermi and Kepler will have WDDM2.0 drivers (like old GCN chips) and will be able to use "thin" DX12 API but their hardware feature support is likely to be limited to FL 11_0.
Who? AMD in Fiji? This is unknown at the moment and we can only guess.
Unless MS announced some new FLs for DX11 in Win10 and I've missed that there are no 11_2 and 11_3.
It is interesting how they'll handle the addition of new features in DX11.3 actually. In DX 11.2 they've opted for expanding the optional FL 11_1 functionality instead of introducing a new feature level. I'm thinking that they may do the same thing with DX 11.3 which would mean that DX11 will still have only two feature levels - 11_0 and 11_1 - but the latter would be further expanded by additional features of Maxwell 2 and GCN3.
The API Overhead feature test is available now in the latest version of 3DMark Advanced Edition and 3DMark Professional Edition. The Steam version of 3DMark updates automatically. The standalone will prompt you to download and install an update. The test cannot be run from the free 3DMark Basic Edition or Steam demo.
Source? AFAIK you can "write to the metal" since before launch, plus the devs of Metro said this last year
Each XDK that has been released both before and after the Xbox One launch has brought faster and faster draw-calls to the table. They added tons of features just to work around limitations of the DX11 API model. They even made a DX12/GNM style do-it-yourself API available
Oles Shishkovstov: Let's put it that way - we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that's surely on the 'mono' driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result. [Thats how much faster the PS4 API is handling draw calls]
In general - I don't really get why they [Microsoft] choose DX11 as a starting point for the console. It's a console! Why care about some legacy stuff at all? On PS4, most GPU commands are just a few DWORDs written into the command buffer, let's say just a few CPU clock cycles. On Xbox One it easily could be one million times slower because of all the bookkeeping the API does.
But Microsoft is not sleeping, really. Each XDK that has been released both before and after the Xbox One launch has brought faster and faster draw-calls to the table. They added tons of features just to work around limitations of the DX11 API model. They even made a DX12/GNM style do-it-yourself API available - although we didn't ship with it on Redux due to time constraints.
So what we expect is a slight benefit for Xbox One, and some major performance boosts on PC hardware, making the overall development pipeline more similar and tighter.
buyers of 970/980 are going to be pissed.
In hindsight, it will be awhile for windows 10 to come out right?