Bojji
Member
Hahahah.
They can do whatever they want, look how many games (physical or digital) were killed or made unusable since launch (like the Crew).
Do we have a definition, what it "digital content", what is "add on" etc.?
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Does PlayStation's 85% digital figure represent consumer preference?
- Thread starter consoul
- Start date
Hahahah.
They can do whatever they want, look how many games (physical or digital) were killed or made unusable since launch (like the Crew).
Do we have a definition, what it "digital content", what is "add on" etc.?
Boss Mog
Member
Exactly. And they prefer to talk about the revenue split rather than the actual sales split. This is because the revenue split will always be heavily skewed toward digital even on games where the sales split might be 50/50. This is because Sony make significantly more money on a digital sale than on a physical sale of the same game. Almost double on average. So even on a game with a 50/50 split, revenue generated from the digital version will be almost double that of the physical version.
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Fabieter
Member
LyricalShrike
Member
Physical royalties and PSN store cut are different. Developers pay a fixed fee selling physical games(e.g. $10 per disk) vs a cut of retail price (30%). Does that mean all numbers aren't comparable? I've shown my receipts using verifiable numbers. You've contributed nothing but disagreement. Time for you to show your math or shut up.
CJ_75
Member
My answer to OP's question is Yes.
I'm in favor of digital games, but I do think they should be priced a bit lower since there are no production costs for physical discs, manufacturing, shipping, or a retailer's cut.
I understand the resale value of physical games, and I also get the concern that Sony or another company could remove a game from the store, leaving you without access to something you bought.
At the same time, physical games take up space at home, and all that plastic can't be good for the environment.
The convenience of digital gaming is hard to ignore. I can just open the online store, buy a game, download it, and start playing without having to go to a shop.
Game development costs a huge amount of money, and if a game doesn't perform well, a developer can shutdown. The list is growing..
Sony or any other company has to do something to keep this hobby sustainable. Games not only need to earn back their development costs, but also help fund future projects.
I do understand the backlash, but I think it's too easy to blame everything on greed.
Wake up and smell the coffee, this was always going to happen.
I'm in favor of digital games, but I do think they should be priced a bit lower since there are no production costs for physical discs, manufacturing, shipping, or a retailer's cut.
I understand the resale value of physical games, and I also get the concern that Sony or another company could remove a game from the store, leaving you without access to something you bought.
At the same time, physical games take up space at home, and all that plastic can't be good for the environment.
The convenience of digital gaming is hard to ignore. I can just open the online store, buy a game, download it, and start playing without having to go to a shop.
Game development costs a huge amount of money, and if a game doesn't perform well, a developer can shutdown. The list is growing..
Sony or any other company has to do something to keep this hobby sustainable. Games not only need to earn back their development costs, but also help fund future projects.
I do understand the backlash, but I think it's too easy to blame everything on greed.
Wake up and smell the coffee, this was always going to happen.
tomato shrub
Member
Fair enough, I might have confused it with the Capcom stats. Still, it contains all the digital-only games, indie-shit you buy at a discount etc. And again, it will naturally miss all the people playing with a borrowed disc or some game they bought used on ebay.
Point is, this is framed in a way to make you believe that 9 out of 10 people bought Spiderman 2 digitally, when in reality it's probably like 5 out of 10.
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calico
Member
These are the relevant definitions from Sony financials:
"1 Hardware is revenue from game consoles including PlayStation®4 and PlayStation®5.
2 Physical Software is revenue from first party game software for PlayStation® consoles sold on discs to retailers, royalties from third party software sold on discs and revenue from first and third party game software sold bundled with PlayStation® consoles and PlayStation®VR.
3 Digital Software is revenue from full game downloads of both first and third party titles sold via the PlayStation™Store.
4 Add-on Content is revenue from digital content other than full games sold via the PlayStation™ Store, such as in-game currency, in-game items and expansion packages.
5 Other Software is revenue from sales of first-party titles and other titles published by Sony Interactive Entertainment, including add-on content, on platforms other than PlayStation® consoles.
6 Network Services is revenue recognized through PlayStation®Plus and advertising revenue. This does not include Game Software revenue.
7 Others primarily includes revenue from peripherals, including PlayStation®VR.
8 Hardware units are disclosed on a sell-in basis."
One important thing to consider is that while 'add on content' is digital in nature, some of it will be to people who have a physical base game. So in that case the selling of the physical game also facilitated the selling of the 'add on content'.
Bojji
Member
Thanks.
Sony can also make add on money even from users that buy used games, but it looks like they don't give a shit.
I think Sony forgets that people having physical collections are their most hardcore consumers that would buy PS6 day one for 1200$, normal people won't do it.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Like most people I haven't bought a physical title in years. As you get older you don't need the clutter and there are no real advantages in terms of utility buying a disc as its going to require its contents to be copied to the drive to be used first time, and thence as basically a security dongle on ever after.
The reality is that as a medium its past its point of usefulness.
Make arguments about facilitating digital transfer/resale all day, I can get behind that (although I do have concerns about the DRM consequences of supporting such a thing), but I truly do not think that stopping physical production of new games is in any way problematic,
The reality is that as a medium its past its point of usefulness.
Make arguments about facilitating digital transfer/resale all day, I can get behind that (although I do have concerns about the DRM consequences of supporting such a thing), but I truly do not think that stopping physical production of new games is in any way problematic,
Gexxy1
Member
Do you guys know what Sony was claiming the digital split was back then? I promise you it was worse than what these numbers show.
Revenue isn't the same as units sold, which is what that poster was showing.
Madserb2023
Member
Firstly, I would need to see exactly what they mean by digital downloads. Are we talking about transactions in Fortnight. Also DLC can only be bought digitally. I will have to buy the new Doom Dark Ages DLC digitally. What matters is the split of new full price games.
Fabieter
Member
No, you're right about the math. I just thought we were comparing software sales. Turns out that's not entirely true, and then it becomes useless to actually compare interest in physical vs. digital.
Miles708
Member
You're looking at this the wrong way round.
Indie titles, GAAS titles and the soon to be released GTA 6 are living proof that a physical version of a game isn't necessary in order to be successful.
Now an individual studio or publisher might decide to not release a physical version for a variety or reasons (such as ease of publishing in the case of indie studios, all the way to outright greed in the case of Rockstar), but the unfortunate truth is that over the course of this generation the data has proven that releasing a physical version of your game does not determine your success and in pretty much all cases does not hamper your ability to be successful.
Recent cases in point:
Arc Raiders tops 16 million sales and could be heading to China
More than half of active Arc Raiders players spent over 100 hours in-game during Q1.www.gamedeveloper.com
16 million sales no physical release.
7 million sales no physical release.
Crimson Desert tops 6M sales within three months
Crimson Desert, the colossal RPG by Pearl Abyss, has surpassed over six million sales in less than three months after its launch in March.www.gamedeveloper.com
6 million sales despite this.
On the other hand the unfortunate truth is that despite physical releases, studios like Tango, Bluepoint and the vast majority of Ubisoft haven't been able to survive.
If your point is "you don't necessarily need physical to be successful", i agree.
What i have problems with is the Sony's subsequent: "therefore the physical market is worthless and can be discarded with no problems or repercussions", showing skewed numbers to make it more believable.
Now we have a problem.
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No, add on content is separate and made $8B more on its own.
saintjules
Gold Member
If digital games went down in price by $10-20 because no physical, would you still be mad? is the question.
No it's not. Try looking at the graph and legend. The $7B is digital game sales. If you include add on content it becomes $15B
Hyper_hyper
Member
What? Physical is in minority, yes
FalsettoVibe
Member
Your entire point gets muddled when you resort to statements like this.
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Hyper_hyper
Member
He is still obtuse. And guess what, he will call you a fanboy despite CLEAR NUMBERS
Fabieter
Member
Even if it is true
Numbers from the last earnings
Physical 125,106M yen (already Sony's net share)
Digital 1,055,688M yen (gross, before publisher's ~70% cut)
Adjust digital: 1,055,688 × 0.3 = 316,706
Compare:
Physical: 125,106 / (125,106 + 316,706) = 28.3%
Digital: 316,706 / (125,106 + 316,706) = 71.7%
Raw split (~89/11) becomes 72/28 after correcting for the accounting mismatch.
Thats a lot of people still buying Physical.
ByWatterson
Member
How can you point this out and still be mad at Sony? Double? They'd be violating their fiduciary duty to shareholders if they didn't at least think about ending physical.
CentralScrutinizer
Member
No. It's an intentional misrepresentation of consumer habit in regard to full priced games that have physical versions.
Sony is the master of obfuscation and that's exactly what this number is.
Sony is the master of obfuscation and that's exactly what this number is.
Fabieter
Member
xrnzaaas
Member
Yup, not the first time that customers are giving green light to be screwed by the corpos, especially when it comes to games that appeal to the majority.It's bigger than that. The availability and production of discs themselves has been decreasing for some time now.
Are blank Blu-ray discs being discontinued? Yes — here's what it means for you
Sony confirmed end-of-production for blank Blu-ray discs in early 2025. We explain the timeline, regional availability, technical alternatives, and how to verify stock before it’s gone.electronics.alibaba.com
Would Capcom have ordered more if more were available? Who knows.
But the fact is that consumers have continually shown that in the scenario where no physical copy is available, they will simply substitute in a digital copy, even at the same cost. Perfect substitutes in economic terms.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
He is saying exactly what I have been saying!!!!
As for this whole thing, as I said yesterday, this is honestly tiring now; we are now pushing conspiracy theories.
This is not just a Sony thing; it's an industry-wide thing. The fact that physical distro has dwindled over the years is obvious and there for all to see if they want to. I mean, even on the production side, there used to be over 30 game disc plants worldwide... now there are fewer than 5. That doesn't happen if demand for disc manufacturing was high.
The real fight isn't nor should it be, about physical or digital... cause lets face it, physical media became obsolete the second the internet became widespread. I mean, how many games release these days that don't require a day-one patch? From anyone that is not Nintendo.
The real fight should be on digital rights and ownership. Because whether it was today, or next year, or 5 years from now, this physical thing was going to happen regardless.
It's kinda pointless to deny that the physical market has shrinked to the point it's becoming irrelevant.
This is seen in all publishers fiscal reports, it's not some manipulated data from evil companies, it's evident in charts that do not include digital sales and in all indicators.
It has already happened with music and movies.
Gaming will complete its 100% digital transformation that has been going on for a decade and some people will either adapt or they will be left behind.
A company can't be hostage of a minority always complaining if things are not what they personally want, at some point the band aid will be ripped off and these people will be totally left behind in their past.
There will be obviously no backtracking on this since it's a plan that involves discarding and reconverting full factories and programming future investments and it's a decision based on objective data, so this is an opportunity to move the fight from denying reality (pointless) to ask for better rights on digital contents.
Consumers need to be better protected against publishers possibly revoking licenses as they see fit.
This is seen in all publishers fiscal reports, it's not some manipulated data from evil companies, it's evident in charts that do not include digital sales and in all indicators.
It has already happened with music and movies.
Gaming will complete its 100% digital transformation that has been going on for a decade and some people will either adapt or they will be left behind.
A company can't be hostage of a minority always complaining if things are not what they personally want, at some point the band aid will be ripped off and these people will be totally left behind in their past.
There will be obviously no backtracking on this since it's a plan that involves discarding and reconverting full factories and programming future investments and it's a decision based on objective data, so this is an opportunity to move the fight from denying reality (pointless) to ask for better rights on digital contents.
Consumers need to be better protected against publishers possibly revoking licenses as they see fit.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
Thanks...We don't need it. Just knowing that the physical market now is half than it was in 2020 is enough
So, how would you explain the above chart?
This is why I have been saying that this didn't happen overnight; it's been happening for over a decade.
Fabieter
Member
They are the same fight. Of cause physical will imly get more niche as times passes but to push back here also means getting better digital rights.
Just accepting it here means sony can keep their shitty anti consumer platform as it is. This is the time to actually change something.
near
Gold Member
Everyone here is rational enough to understand that digital sales are dominant overall. People keep using that fact to dismiss physical media entirely, even though the data does not show that physical sales are losing Sony money, or that the physical market no longer exists. There are still a large number of physical games sales, and enough demand to keep supporting discs without it being detrimental to Sony's bottom line. Sony would rather have a market where every sale goes through PSN, kill the used game market and kill retail price competition.
calico
Member
Assumes it counts the full digital sale price as revenue (baseless).
Ignores that first party digital is 100% instead of 30%.
Arrives at a revenue split, ignores they make like 3x more from a digital third party sale than a retail third party sale, but then draws a 'people' based conclusion anyway.
Rambone
Member
I switched to digital only a long time ago and have been overall happy with that decision.
* I have a large library (probably a thousand games by now), so less clutter. I used to like to have my games on display until I got older and decided that hiding my gaming pastime was probably in my best interest if I wanted the chance at the Vagina.
* Not having to browse hundreds of game boxes/jewel cases/etc to find the title I am looking for has been a blessing, I can play whatever I want now at the press of a button.
* Not having to do the ritual of getting up off my ass, getting a CD/Cart, inserting it into the console and then putting it away has been a blessing
* Physical Discs these days are mostly a physical DRM check and require patches to be playable, might as well just go digital.
Since I went to digital I found myself playing games a lot more. Over time I started to become lazy and would find myself playing digital games more, because I didn't want to have to go through the hassle of having to get up off my ass to find a game vs just having my whole library at my fingertips, in one menu, ready to play at the click of a button. The convenience of digital won out.
* I have a large library (probably a thousand games by now), so less clutter. I used to like to have my games on display until I got older and decided that hiding my gaming pastime was probably in my best interest if I wanted the chance at the Vagina.
* Not having to browse hundreds of game boxes/jewel cases/etc to find the title I am looking for has been a blessing, I can play whatever I want now at the press of a button.
* Not having to do the ritual of getting up off my ass, getting a CD/Cart, inserting it into the console and then putting it away has been a blessing
* Physical Discs these days are mostly a physical DRM check and require patches to be playable, might as well just go digital.
Since I went to digital I found myself playing games a lot more. Over time I started to become lazy and would find myself playing digital games more, because I didn't want to have to go through the hassle of having to get up off my ass to find a game vs just having my whole library at my fingertips, in one menu, ready to play at the click of a button. The convenience of digital won out.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
This is just wasting our time and diverting our focus. You don't learn to drive a car by first learning to ride a bicycle. We don't need to be pushing back on a dead format; we need to be pushing for digital rights, like we should have been doing over the last ten years too.
Again, none of this just started overnight.
Like for real, what good is a disc if we can get everything that disc gives us with a license key card? If we can match the rights of ownership of that license key card to that of a disc... then who the hell would still need a disc? That shit is ancient, and what good is the medium when every game still requires patches, or comes with eventual expansions that are seldom carried over to a new disc reprint?
ValiantInstance
Member
I posted this is the main thread, but the 85% figure is misleading and makes no mention of the fact physical has been stabilising since the pandemic. It also doesn't mean 'X% of players are digital only' because there will be some crossover of people who don't have a preference and will get whatever is cheapest.
Would also be interested in seeing how big the preowned market is.
Would also be interested in seeing how big the preowned market is.
Fabieter
Member
If you think that sony will deliver and all digital consumer friendly future than i have a spaceship to sell you. It wont happen.
Good luck in 2028
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Sigh..... ok.
Number of game disc printing plants globally.
- 2010 - Over 100
- 2016 - Around 30
- 2026 - Under 5.
What does the above info tell you?
And there in lies the problem: not only do you believe they never will, you aren't even willing to fight for that... but somehow think a better fight is for them to keep supporting discs? Like do you not see what is really going on?
Discs, be it sony, or someone else, are obsolete. As is, Sony is amongst the less the 5 companies that still print and distribute discs... LESS THAN 5. Why is that not sinking in?
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CentralScrutinizer
Member
I'd love to see the digital to physical revenue splits if you completely remove Fortnite from the equation.
Just as a thought experiment.
Just as a thought experiment.
vodka-bull
Member
Cnsumers want less options? That's a bold statement.
Minsc
Gold Member
They should just do what 4k bluray did and raise the prices 100%, instead of $20 or $30 for a movie you now pay $40-60. So keep physical but just make it $120-160 a game. Then the collectors of physical can be happy and you can make enough to make it profitable.
Fabieter
Member
What have you done to actually fight for digital rights. And what would actually need to happen that you are happy. Would be interesting?
CentralScrutinizer
Member
What type of bullshit number is this? I just bought Super Mario Galaxy 4k Blu Ray for $30 brand new. It released two weeks ago.
And guess what? That also came with a digital code to own it on movies anywhere.
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I mean it's right there in the chart for all to see. It's true.
Even if you assume this to be true regarding booking method. You can't really do that because first party releases have 100% revenue and they tend to be the ones that skew slightly more physical too compared to the average. You would be unfairly removing 70% from all digital first party sales but maintaining it for the physical. Even when you do this unfairly, 28/72 is still a pretty large majority digital there. Unfortunately there is no scenario where physical wins out.
Minsc
Gold Member
Mario Galaxy is one of the cheapest, and you're pretty close to the $40. Try a Disney movie or many others (for example this, $50 not even steelbook). So many offer only steelbook now, no regular versions.
I bought the original 2023 Mario 4k for like $3 from Amazon. Cheapest 4k I ever paid for.
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Fabieter
Member
Yeah it is not about winning it is about showing sonys framing.
CentralScrutinizer
Member
in 33% away from $40. That's not "pretty close"
You were wrong. Oh well.
Also, if you bought it 4k digitally, you really didn't buy it 4k. If you got it physically, good on you for getting a deal. That's what physical media affords you, a fantastic deal if you wait it out.
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Fabieter
Member
Most steelbooks are 40 bucks max.
Bojji
Member
For SP AAA games split is probably around 20-40% for physical, maybe even close to 50% in some cases. Sony will sacrifice all this to kill the used market and gain total control.
I'm glad you are happy but this move will affect you as well. Sony will increase prices of everything after they kill physical games, they also won't feel any pressure to do sales very often (or at all).