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[Moofers]

The IGN writer sounds like he's never played a beat-em-up from the genre's golden age before. I guess it makes sense since he's probably like 19 or something.

Game looks incredible, though. I've had my eye on this since it was first revealed years ago. Always hoped we might get a modern fantasy BEU, but really thought those days were over. Glad to see the soul still burns!

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Damn, this one is really going to deliver after all this time.

 

[ricen-beans]

The IGN writer sounds like he's never played a beat-em-up from the genre's golden age before. I guess it makes sense since he's probably like 19 or something.

Colin Moriarty wrote this piece. I know a lot of people here don't like ign that much but I have much respect for Colin. He's pretty hardcore gamer and used to write full guides for huge games like fallout, etc. now he's a senior editor on the ign Playstation team. I think he's closer to 30 btw.

Anyways this game is looking ace! Day one!!


Question: for those that have played Muramasa, should I play that before DCrown or wait. I know they're not tied together but I don't want to be burned out on the genre for when DCrown comes out. Does Muramasa have a good story? Gameplay?

 

[Yuterald]

Enemy scaling? Ugh, come on, dudes. Everything sounded perfect until my eyes glanced over that garbage. I'll never understand why some developers think enemy scaling is a good philosophy. There's other ways to increase difficulty, you know.

 

[erpg]

Enemy scaling? Ugh, come on, dudes. Everything sounded perfect until my eyes glanced over that garbage. I'll never understand why some developers think enemy scaling is a good philosophy. There's other ways to increase difficulty, you know.

... It doesn't increase the difficulty, it keeps it the same.

Hell, just imagine it as you filling up a bar with EXP, which in the end doesn't actually change anything.

 

[Omegasquash]

Hype getting. Already pre-ordered, and will pick up an additional PS3 controller so that the wife and I can beat fools down.

 

[sixteen-bit]

first current-gen game i buy in a long time

 

[Hobbun]

... It doesn't increase the difficulty, it keeps it the same.

Hell, just imagine it as you filling up a bar with EXP, which in the end doesn't actually change anything.

I’m with Yuterald on this, not a fan of enemy scaling. I like to see my character get stronger and be able to visit older areas and just kick ass. With scaling enemies, you just don’t have the feeling of getting stronger because the enemies are always right there with you.

 

[GuardianE]

Enemy scaling can be done well, and can be done in such a fashion that it doesn't leave your character feeling static.

If enemies' base damage, aggression, and health are the only real modifiers with level, then it won't really make a big difference. Presumably, your character will not only be getting innate stat boosts as they level, but also be getting much better loot and access to more damaging skills. This could mean that even though the beginning enemies scale to your level, you'll still tear through them because of the other upgrades your character has gotten.

 

[Yuterald]

... It doesn't increase the difficulty, it keeps it the same.

Hell, just imagine it as you filling up a bar with EXP, which in the end doesn't actually change anything.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Enemy scaling can be done well, and can be done in such a fashion that it doesn't leave your character feeling static.

If enemies' base damage, aggression, and health are the only real modifiers with level, then it won't really make a big difference. Presumably, your character will not only be getting innate stat boosts as they level, but also be getting much better loot and access to more damaging skills. This could mean that even though the beginning enemies scale to your level, you'll still tear through them because of the other upgrades your character has gotten.

I've never played a game where enemy scaling works well. It's always a train wreck when you reach a certain point in the game. Also, didn't the article say that not only do the enemies become stronger, but they increase the quantity/volume of enemy spawns as well? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Morrowind work like that? Barf!

 

[Cornbread78]

Oh $hit, this looks better and better every time I see and hear something on it....

 

[djplaeskool]

Enemy scaling seems like it will put more emphasis on loot grinding.
I'm okay with this.

 

[erpg]

I’m with Yuterald on this, not a fan of enemy scaling. I like to see my character get stronger and be able to visit older areas and just kick ass. With scaling enemies, you just don’t have the feeling of getting stronger because the enemies are always right there with you.

Well, I guess that's the disconnect between beat-em-ups and RPGs. Beat-em-ups generally aren't stat based power trips.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

I don't know how else I can dumb it down.

I've never played a game where enemy scaling works well. It's always a train wreck when you reach a certain point in the game. Also, didn't the article say that not only do the enemies become stronger, but they increase the quantity/volume of enemy spawns as well? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Morrowind work like that? Barf!

Morrowind didn't have any enemy level scaling whatsoever. It scaled loot and uniques.

 

[StayDead]

When this was initially announced I had little to zero interest. When I eventually get my vita I am definately going to buy this game.

 

[Skilletor]

I don't see how level scaling matters in this type of game. I want my enemies to constantly be as tough as me or else progression would be boring. I wouldn't want to go back to an earlier level in this type of game and just run through enemies; that would be pointless and boring.

 

[Yuterald]

I don't see how level scaling matters in this type of game. I want my enemies to constantly be as tough as me or else progression would be boring. I wouldn't want to go back to an earlier level in this type of game and just run through enemies; that would be pointless and boring.

This game isn't simply a beat-em up. Once you introduce leveling, stats, gear, etc. you're talking serious business. You could simply resolve the issue by adding in selectable difficulty levels for each mission/map/quest/whatever. There's absolutely no need to scale. There's TONS of ways you can avoid scaling and still offer adjustable/new difficulties to the early parts of the game.

I mean, whatever dudes, it's not a big deal. No need to make a scene over this and derail the thread. I'm personally just less excited for the game now. =/

 

[Yuterald]

Well, I guess that's the disconnect between beat-em-ups and RPGs. Beat-em-ups generally aren't stat based power trips.


I don't know how else I can dumb it down.


Morrowind didn't have any enemy level scaling whatsoever. It scaled loot and uniques.

Oh, wait, lol, it was Oblivion! Sorry, I mix the game's up because they're so horrible to me.

 

[Hobbun]

Well, I guess that's the disconnect between beat-em-ups and RPGs. Beat-em-ups generally aren't stat based power trips.

If you read the description it is clearly an RPG as well and is based heavily on stats.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I don't see how level scaling matters in this type of game. I want my enemies to constantly be as tough as me or else progression would be boring. I wouldn't want to go back to an earlier level in this type of game and just run through enemies; that would be pointless and boring.

Level scaling in an action game with mostly linear progress is par for the course. Enemies should be challenging throughout the game even as you get stronger.

People have negative connotations for level scaling from garbage like Oblivion and Skyrim, where 1) it makes no sense for a crab to kill someone who has killed 27 dragons, and 2) the combat is so painful, you keep hoping leveling will make it go faster.

 

[Skilletor]

This game isn't simply a beat-em up. Once you introduce leveling, stats, gear, etc. you're talking serious business. You could simply resolve the issue by adding in selectable difficulty levels for each mission/map/quest/whatever. There's absolutely no need to scale. There's TONS of ways you can avoid scaling and still offer adjustable/new difficulties to the early parts of the game.

I mean, whatever dudes, it's not a big deal. No need to make a scene over this and derail the thread. I'm personally just less excited for the game now. =/

Different strokes. Adding RPG elements doesn't mean it's a different genre for me. /shrug

Still a beat em up in the same way the D & D games are.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Kind of surprised by the enemy scaling backlash. Is it really so much fun to go back to earlier levels and destroy everything in one hit? I would imagine getting better at the game and then revisiting earlier levels would be more enjoyable than that.

 

[Grisby]

Oh man, the Elf can run out of arrows. That's gonna add some strategy.

 

[Riposte]

Game with no leveling mechanics > Game with leveling mechanics, but with scaling > Game with leveling mechanics and no scaling.

Kind of surprised by the enemy scaling backlash. Is it really so much fun to go back to earlier levels and destroy everything in one hit? I would imagine getting better at the game and then revisiting earlier levels would be more enjoyable than that.

People (with poor taste) love messing with a game's balance to be largely in their favor due to repetitive busy-work and developers love allowing it. Welcome to the nonsense that is the poorly applied "RPG" term.

 

[erpg]

If you read the description it is clearly an RPG as well and is based heavily on stats.

It's a beat 'em up with stats. And with enemy scaling, like I said, the stats may as well mean absolutely nothing outside of providing people who enjoy stats and levels something to work on.

My ideal would be that your attacks did the same %HP damage to an enemy at level 1 as level 40, but you'd just be seeing a bigger damage number.

 

[raven777]

this sounds better than what i expected.

 

[nikos]

Sounds like it'll be challenging, hopefully my body will be ready.

 

[R0nn]

No doubt it's been said before but wow, the boobs in this game are ridiculous. Gives DOA a run for it's money.

 

[Hobbun]

It's a beat 'em up with stats. And with enemy scaling, like I said, the stats may as well mean absolutely nothing outside of providing people who enjoy stats and levels something to work on.

My ideal would be that your attacks did the same %HP damage to an enemy at level 1 as level 40, but you'd just be seeing a bigger damage number.

Your ideal would be the opposite for me. What would be the point of adding in stats if the only difference is seeing a higher number? What would be the point of levels?

If they are going to make a beat-em up with stats and RPG elements, have those mean something. If it doesn’t, then just concentrate fully on it being a beat-em up and forget about the fluffy numbers. There’s nothing wrong with making strictly a fighting game, I like games like that too. Don’t know how many hours I’ve spent playing Double Dragon II, Streets of Rage II, as well as many others.

But if you are going to advertise a game with an RPG element, have that RPG element mean something.

People (with poor taste) love messing with a game's balance to be largely in their favor due to repetitive busy-work and developers love allowing it. Welcome to the nonsense that is the poorly applied "RPG" term.

Seriously?

If you enjoy level scaling, that’s fine. But don’t play the elitist with saying who don’t enjoy it have ‘poor taste’ and it ruins the balance of the game.

Please.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Yeah sounds like good fun. Amazon whoooo!

 

[erpg]

Your ideal would be the opposite for me. What would be the point of adding in stats if the only difference is seeing a higher number? What would be the point of levels?

So satisfy people who attribute exp bar filling some kind of fulfilling emotion? Those same people who enjoy filling bars in Call of Duty, Battlefield, Uncharted, Sonic Jump, Temple Run... nearly any game?

Filling up an exp bar is a simple way to provide a sense of progress. And stats, power.

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

Was interested until I read level scaling.

Will wait for deep discount or free with PS+

 

[Hobbun]

So satisfy people who attribute exp bar filling some kind of fulfilling emotion? Those same people who enjoy filling bars in Call of Duty, Battlefield, Uncharted, Sonic Jump, Temple Run... nearly any game?

Filling up an exp bar is a simple way to provide a sense of progress. And stats, power.

I haven’t played those games, and I can’t speak for those who like to see some sort of visual progression even though it doesn’t mean anything.

I just am saying if you are going to have an EXP/progression bar, stats, etc. in a game, have them make a difference mechanically, not just showing me progress (even though I am really not).

Either way, I still have every intention of getting the game, and I am sure I will enjoy it, but it doesn’t change the fact that I would rather have no level scaling.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I would agree that having something in a game that for all intents and purposes accomplishes nothing and adds nothing but to give the player arbitrary busy work in order to watch a number go up is pretty awful. The right thing to do is not have leveling at all in that case. Ideally, in an action game with loot you should already have tangible progress - improving your character's gear and your skill at the game.

 

[JoeFenix]

Game with no leveling mechanics > Game with leveling mechanics, but with scaling > Game with leveling mechanics and no scaling.



People (with poor taste) love messing with a game's balance to be largely in their favor due to repetitive busy-work and developers love allowing it. Welcome to the nonsense that is the poorly applied "RPG" term.

Or you could have different difficulty settings that you can select while entering an area, no need for this bullshit scaling algorithm crap that ALWAYS introduces lame issues.

With different difficulty settings the devs have much more granular control over the enemy stats but it requires more work on their part making sure everything is fine tuned.

Simply scaling shit up is much easier and faster I guess....

 

[Evolved1]

they should have made him a white knight...

 

[erpg]

I would agree that having something in a game that for all intents and purposes accomplishes nothing and adds nothing but to give the player arbitrary busy work in order to watch a number go up is pretty awful. The right thing to do is not have leveling at all in that case. Ideally, in an action game with loot you should already have tangible progress - improving your character's gear and your skill at the game.

It's an interesting ideal but it doesn't have much basis in (the sad) reality. People like bars. They enjoy moving towards and visualizing a very simple goal. Trophies, achievements, nearly every multiplayer game in the last 7 years, language learning tools like Memrise, LinkedIn, Dropbox. They're all based on completing tasks and moving up a couple percentage points towards the big 100.

Or you could have different difficulty settings that you can select while entering an area, no need for this bullshit scaling algorithm crap that ALWAYS introduces lame issues.

With different difficulty settings the devs have much more granular control over the enemy stats but it requires more work on their part making sure everything is fine tuned.

Simply scaling shit up is much easier and faster I guess....

What if there isn't a scaling algorithm? What if difficulty is set in stone from the beginning, regardless of your stats? And then items gave you a small boost to damage that bypassed scaling?

Oblivion seems to have ruined concept level scaling for everyone. It did level scaling poorly, because it was based on your level (instead of your combat abilities - speech, Alteration and athletics aren't going to save you against a buffed up level scaled Troll) and it was visually presented through gear (awkward bandits with fancy Glass Armour).

 

[JoeFenix]

It's an interesting ideal but it doesn't have much basis in reality. People like bars. They enjoy moving towards and visualizing a very simple goal. Trophies, achievements, nearly every multiplayer game in the last 7 years, language learning tools like Memrise, LinkedIn, Dropbox. They're all based on completing tasks and moving up a couple percentage points towards the big 100.

What if there isn't a scaling algorithm? What if difficulty is set in stone from the beginning, regardless of your stats? And then items gave you a small boost to damage that bypassed scaling?

Oblivion seems to have ruined concept level scaling for everyone. It did level scaling poorly, because it was based on your level (instead of your combat abilities - speech and athletics aren't going to save you against a Troll) and it was visually presented through gear (awkward bandits with fancy Glass Armour).

I don't expect the scaling to be based on your stats, I fully expect it to be based on your character level/party average. Like I said in an earlier post, if the scaling is fairly minimal and you can compensate through gear and other ways to boost your stats without leveling up then it could be tolerable.

I still think it's just not a very good way of dealing with difficulty in rpgs. Just have different difficulty levels that are balanced for a certain character level range and have those be fine tuned individually, different enemy variants and mixes can be introduced instead of just throwing more of the same dudes with scaled up stats.

I do agree that there is a range of implementation quality with something like Oblivion being the absolute bottom of the barrel, I'm still buying the game and I'm sure I'll have fun with it but it's disappointing to see them use scaling.

Playing Dark Arisen recently really made me appreciate just how much fun rpg mechanics can be in an action game when implemented correctly. The new dungeon on Hard was very challenging at first (people even speculated there might be scaling involved) but the more gear you get from that place the more you start annihilating stuff, there's still skill involved and you can still die even with great gear but the feeling of empowerment is just fantastic.

To me that's the balance that action games with rpg mechanics should strive for. Never become a total cakewalk in the endgame areas/difficulty modes but definitely have some noticeable breakthroughs in terms of power vs enemies. It's just incredibly fun and satisfying!

 

[NoirVisage]

My god. Get rid of that horrible ign logo and I have a new desktop.

word..I need to find this image online somewhere

What's wrong with you.

ha ha, thats an awesome response, You're batting a thousand.

they should have made him a white knight...

HE is ..wow..I just thought a lot harder about that than i should have.

 

[Videad]

Maybe all expect some scalling like Dark souls?

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

Any word on if the game will have multiple towns?

 

[TreIII]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssss.

 

[JoeFenix]

Maybe all expect some scalling like Dark souls?

Uh, Dark Souls has no scaling whatsoever during a playthrough as far as I remember.

You probably meant new game+ scaling I guess, it certainly wasn't handled all that great there but this is different. This seems to scale enemies depending on your level, it's not set for your first playthrough and then each playthrough gets harder but you keep your stats.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Game sounds beast.

 

[Quixzlizx]

I might have to stop reading previews. My hype is way too high for a game that's 3 months away.

 

[Chiller]

Has anyone confirmed that the game runs at 60fps? I can only assume it does, based on VW's previous titles.

 

[UpperCaseN]

Has anyone confirmed that the game runs at 60fps? I can only assume it does, based on VW's previous titles.

during boss battles, Odin Sphere runs at like 1 fps on PS2

 

[Maedhros]

Lots of great game for Vita recently (even though this is PS3/Vita). Here hoping for a great E3 for it.

 

[Skilletor]

during boss battles, Odin Sphere runs at like 1 fps on PS2

I think the PS2 classic has a fixed framerate on PSN.

 

[Whompa]

I have a feeling this game is going to be fantastic. Long development time seemed to help it.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Holy shit, towns, quests, npc's, guilds, loot, character attributes, all wrapped ina breathtaking art and with online play. This is looking more and more like the rpg of the year for me.