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EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"

Chaostar

Member
Holy cow, you're right! If you check my version of the screenshot--which comes from the official Xbox Wire website--the clipping has obviously been photoshopped out. Wow.

Lol this has to be new thread worthy :)

Can somebody get the two pictures together for a comparison please?
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
Thanks! Quite difference. And yeah even I know that flops really don't tell everything. CELL having over a double flop performance of PS4 CPU....
Does that mean the PS4 would be a better console if it had the CELL processor? I know many claim it's an absolute headache to program for but just curious.
 

Biker19

Banned
That difference is goddamn enormous for Wii U :/

It certainly is. Wii U's GPU is the most weakest between the three next gen consoles.

For the more general uses of the PS4's CPU, Jaguar is a better choice than Cell.

Also, if the PS3 had a more better CPU that was much more easier to develop for, then most PS3's versions of multiplats would've far surpassed 360's versions of multiplats.
 

hodgy100

Member
Does that mean the PS4 would be a better console if it had the CELL processor? I know many claim it's an absolute headache to program for but just curious.

flops arent so important for CPU's and in this context the cpu will be used for game logic more than anything which is more dependant on IPC rate (instructions per clock) than its floating operation performance and task's that do require good flop performance can be offloaded to the GPU.

the cell is an interesting hybrid as it was good for operations that required good flop throughput, its almost like a prototype to what we have today with GPGPU excpt it was part of the CPU instead. but the concept was the same as it is today, you set up lots of small jobs for a task you want completed send them off to the SPE's (or in the ps4's case the gpu) to be processed and then the results returned.
 

Joemoe

Neo Member
Lol this has to be new thread worthy :)

Can somebody get the two pictures together for a comparison please?

Here's something I quickly threw together. The original image is a .jpg and the Xbox image is a .png and cropped a bit, which makes comparing for color correction and whatnot a bit trickier, but I really wouldn't expect it to make a noticeable difference.

ppH42uS.jpg


Personally I'm pretty certain it's the same image but with color correction added and the armor clipping/texture bug shopped out. I don't see how I could be wrong.

Edit: Ya the Xbox.com image definitely has color correction added to give it a cinematic effect. I saved the .png as a .jpg of similar size to the original and there's no noticeable difference in the colors at all.
 

Chaostar

Member
Here's something I quickly threw together. The original image is a .jpg and the Xbox image is a .png and cropped a bit, which makes a directly comparing for color correction and whatnot a bit harder.

ppH42uS.jpg


Personally I'm pretty certain it's the same image but shopped. I could be wrong, but I don't see how.

Thanks, looking at it now I'm torn over whether or not it's the exact same image but I do love a good scandal :p

The bit of armour in the top-right highlighted area particularly looks photoshopped
badly
.
 
Here's something I quickly threw together. The original image is a .jpg and the Xbox image is a .png and cropped a bit, which makes a directly comparing for color correction and whatnot a bit harder.

ppH42uS.jpg


Personally I'm pretty certain it's the same image but with color correction and the clipping shopped out. I could be wrong, but I don't see how.

If it's a cutscene, they could have re-ran it with the same random-seed with the corrected models.

But let's look at it from an effort point of view. You see a glitch in your rendering. Do you:
A) Fix the glitch (Which requires programmers and artists working together), record the cutscene again and take the snapshot in the EXACT same frame? (All the hairs line up, etc.)
B) Photoshop
 

TheD

The Detective
According to alot of posts I am seeing that are only talking about TFLOP performance the PS3 is > then the X1.

PS3 RSX = 1.8TFLOPs

X1 = 1.37TFLOPs

Point is, TFLOP performance is only the start of the equation when it comes to effectiveness of a GPU.

NO!

That 1.8TF number is a something Sony pulled out it's arse after MS came up with it's own bullshit 1TF number for the 360!
The reason that it is 1.8TF is because Sony already told people the floating point power of Cell (about 200GFLOPS).
 

nib95

Banned
Here's something I quickly threw together. The original image is a .jpg and the Xbox image is a .png and cropped a bit, which makes a directly comparing for color correction and whatnot a bit harder.

ppH42uS.jpg


Personally I'm pretty certain it's the same image but with color correction and the clipping shopped out. I could be wrong, but I don't see how.

Lol.
 

Durante

Member
Erm, the shading on some of the surfaces and even the positioning of background objects is different in those shots.

Edit: could just be the former having a cut off colorspace, and different cropping.
 

StuBurns

Banned
So what if they did shop it anyway? The game isn't out. If it has distracting clipping issues at launch, fine, but anything until then is irrelevant.
 

Joemoe

Neo Member
If it's a cutscene, they could have re-ran it with the same random-seed with the corrected models.

But let's look at it from an effort point of view. You see a glitch in your rendering. Do you:
A) Fix the glitch (Which requires programmers and artists working together), record the cutscene again and take the snapshot in the EXACT same frame? (All the hairs line up, etc.)
B) Photoshop

I don't think so. If you look in the background everything from the clouds, the smoke, and those faint ember particles and lighting effects are all in the same exact position (the image was just cropped a bit). I don't imagine that would happen again in an in-game cutscene and don't see why they'd bother capturing that same exact frame again in the first place. I can't find any in-game difference at all other than the lack of armor clipping/texture issues in the xbox.com image and the better colors.

Here's a shot of the shoulder in the new image blown up where the original has some strange texture bug. It just looks like a bad photoshop job tbh. There's a part of the texture in the original image in the red circle that's been cut off in this shot entirely (the crease rising diagonally from below is supposed to rise further up the plate rather than cut off right there). Even when it's not blown up you can see it's not really consistent with the rest of the shoulder.

yj26h8K.png
 

Arkham

The Amiga Brotherhood
Does that mean the PS4 would be a better console if it had the CELL processor?

The greedy little boy in me has always unrealistically hoped that the Secondary Processor is an optimised Cell chip. ;-) Back before the February reveal this idea was not unrealistically thrown around as a(n unlikely) possibility. I doubt it, but ohhhh the meltdowns.

Xbox One =

PS4 = Deeper Shade of Soul?
 
Erm, the shading on some of the surfaces and even the positioning of background objects is different in those shots.
It doesn't really matter if it's the exact same frame. The original shot is only relevant because it shows there was clipping there before, which made me look at the press shot. Same frame or not, the shot from Xbox Wire is unquestionably touched up. Here's a closeup:
nd9igOy.png


I wouldn't worry about it too much. There's still time before launch, and any glitches that remain by then will be plenty visible in reviews and so forth. (The bad normal-mapping on the armor is far more disappointing, I think.)

I'm less interested in what this says about Ryse or Microsoft, and more interested in the implications for press shots in general. Sure, we all know bullshots have extra resolution and AA, but is this sort of by-hand touchup also common? If the worker was skilled, it could be invisible. If it's truly extensive that wouldn't be surprising, but it would be a little distasteful to me.
 

StevieP

Banned
It doesn't really matter if it's the exact same frame. The original shot is only relevant because it shows there was clipping there before, which made me look at the press shot. Same frame or not, the shot from Xbox Wire is unquestionably touched up. Here's a closeup:
nd9igOy.png


I wouldn't worry about it too much. There's still time before launch, and any glitches that remain by then will be plenty visible in reviews and so forth. (The bad normal-mapping on the armor is far more disappointing, I think.)

I'm less interested in what this says about Ryse or Microsoft, and more interested in the implications for press shots in general. Sure, we all know bullshots have extra resolution and AA, but is this sort of by-hand touchup also common? If the worker was skilled, it could be invisible. If it's truly extensive that wouldn't be surprising, but it would be a little distasteful to me.

More common than you think. Between this and e3/reveals being full of high end PC builds, this generation won't be different from the previous couple in regards to touched up content.
 
Dan Greenawalt creative director of Forza 5 said Xbox One is 8 times more powerful that the 360.
Mark Cerny said the PS4 is 10 times more powerful of the PS3.
I know PS4 is more powerful but we will see amazing games from both systems.
 

Naminator

Banned
Thanks, looking at it now I'm torn over whether or not it's the exact same image but I do love a good scandal :p

The bit of armour in the top-right highlighted area particularly looks photoshopped
badly
.

To call that a "Scandal" is nothing short of a joke, let alone a "Good Scandal".
 

Jack_AG

Banned
Thanks, looking at it now I'm torn over whether or not it's the exact same image but I do love a good scandal :p

The bit of armour in the top-right highlighted area particularly looks photoshopped
badly
.
Same image. Note how in the above image the armor is 3 dimensional (has thickness) but in the bottom pic the leather strap feeds directly IN the Y axis of the armor instead of underneath it? Whoopsie!
Edit: FML I'm slow to post from my phone.
 

REV 09

Member
Here's something I quickly threw together. The original image is a .jpg and the Xbox image is a .png and cropped a bit, which makes comparing for color correction and whatnot a bit trickier, but I really wouldn't expect it to make a noticeable difference.

ppH42uS.jpg


Personally I'm pretty certain it's the same image but with color correction added and the armor clipping/texture bug shopped out. I don't see how I could be wrong.

Edit: Ya the Xbox.com image definitely has color correction added to give it a cinematic effect. I saved the .png as a .jpg of similar size to the original and there's no noticeable difference in the colors at all.
gee if only we've seen this game and this particular scene in motion...

It's sad that you took the time to research this.
 

dEvAnGeL

Member
It doesn't really matter if it's the exact same frame. The original shot is only relevant because it shows there was clipping there before, which made me look at the press shot. Same frame or not, the shot from Xbox Wire is unquestionably touched up. Here's a closeup:
nd9igOy.png


I wouldn't worry about it too much. There's still time before launch, and any glitches that remain by then will be plenty visible in reviews and so forth. (The bad normal-mapping on the armor is far more disappointing, I think.)

I'm less interested in what this says about Ryse or Microsoft, and more interested in the implications for press shots in general. Sure, we all know bullshots have extra resolution and AA, but is this sort of by-hand touchup also common? If the worker was skilled, it could be invisible. If it's truly extensive that wouldn't be surprising, but it would be a little distasteful to me.
that image looks like was edited on paint instead of Photoshop, horrible
 

Codeblew

Member
gee if only we've seen this game and this particular scene in motion...

It's sad that you took the time to research this.

What is sad is that you worry about what people choose to do with their time. I am sure there are people out there that thinks it is sad that you play video games.
 

Chaostar

Member
To call that a "Scandal" is nothing short of a joke, let alone a "Good Scandal".

Ok that was an overstatement, forgive my flair for the dramatic.

Still, as far as I can remember this is the first time a company has been caught red handed directly editing a screenshot. So it's at least noteworthy. If only to highlight what a poor job they did.
 

Joemoe

Neo Member
gee if only we've seen this game and this particular scene in motion...

It's sad that you took the time to research this.

I think it's interesting being able to see how screenshots are tampered with and whatnot. It's rare that we get to see the original image to compare with the touched image.

Here's one more comparison just to show how that scene came along in the 50 Mb/s Behind the Scenes vidoc. They got rid of the straps but the texture bug and armor clipping (it's more obvious in motion) is still there.

e6l8.png
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Yes it did. But I'm not sure if the CPU in these consoles is anywhere near as purposeful as the SPEs. I reckon all the 'visuals' will be handled by the GPU only in both consoles.

A lot of what Cell did visually was because it was a very GPU-like chip. The vast majority of visual grunt work will be done on the GPUs this gen.
 
Ignored this thread mostly because I thought I could guess how stupid it could become. Then, out of curiosity, I poke my head in and find dudes blowing up a single frame of a pick to prove it was Photoshoped to hide clipping on an Xbone game. I don't know if it was or wasn't, if I had to guess I'd say it was, either way it doesn't make a lick of difference about anything at all. That being said, I know someone believes there's some scandal or winning going on here so by all means continue.
 

Biker19

Banned
Yes it did. But I'm not sure if the CPU in these consoles is anywhere near as purposeful as the SPEs. I reckon all the 'visuals' will be handled by the GPU only in both consoles.

A lot of what Cell did visually was because it was a very GPU-like chip. The vast majority of visual grunt work will be done on the GPUs this gen.

These. Neither the Xbox 360 or the Xbox One has anything like the PS3 has to pull off more better graphics.

The eSRAM that the Xbox One has won't be the same like the Cell Processor/SPE's at all.
 
No one noticed that KI was at 720p either till developers pointed it out did they?

The first hand reports from the Toronto FanExpo in late August noted terrible jaggies in KI. They may not have been calling the res right there, but people were noticing it.

Killer Instinct looks current gen and jaggy as fuck. No favors for it given that it's on a 60" LED that you have to view at point blank range. Haha.

It was about a week after this show that it was confirmed as 720p
 
Jesus Christ. As someone who has worked at a major game studio, if you don't think this 'photoshopping' issue you guys are hung up on is happening at every studio, I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
 
Jesus Christ. As someone who has worked at a major game studio, if you don't think this 'photoshopping' issue you guys are hung up on is happening at every studio, I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
That's interesting. I know (as most gamers do) that screenshots are often higher-res than the game, and with better AA. But I don't recall ever hearing about actual localized touch-up of rendering flaws. If this is going on at every studio, could you point out some other screenshots that show it?
 
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