PepperJohn
Banned
And you know that as fact?
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Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles
- Thread starter dancrane212
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And you know that as fact?
Haha. Why not better than Scorpio?
GinoFelino
Member
Oh I'm sorry, I thought I was in a thread concerning rumours that NX would not be as powerful as PS4(K).
I figured that in such a thread, it'd be rather silly to state that Nintendo better 'make sure' it was more powerful than PS4K.
I'd better bring the facts next time I want to comment on something like that!
Herb Alpert
Banned
Let's make sure that NX is as powerful as a titan... at least.
dickroach
Member
didn't the thing go into mass production this past month? I think I remember erading a report saying May was when production was gonna start ramping up. I'd be shocked if it was any more powerful than a PS4.0
Candescence
Member
A PS4Neo/XboxScorpio-level console would be a terrible, terrible idea. The Neo and Scorpio are obviously meant to be premium editions with extra bells and whistles rather than replacements and will likely be too expensive for the average consumer, a niche the NX can't afford to compete with, and won't have to, especially when we know the Neo won't get any exclusives (which is a smart idea on Sony's part, both to be fair to consumers and to avoid splitting the install base. We don't know if MS will do the same thing, but it's MS and this gen has involved them shooting themselves in the foot several times). The next iteration of the NX console can match or exceed both of them and essentially fulfil the same function by being instantly backwards-compatible.
The NX's first console iteration won't be a Neo/Scorpio level device. Nintendo can, however, provide a more powerful/premium variation that fills the same niche, similar to, say, Apple having at least two major variations of each iteration of their devices these days.
The NX's first console iteration won't be a Neo/Scorpio level device. Nintendo can, however, provide a more powerful/premium variation that fills the same niche, similar to, say, Apple having at least two major variations of each iteration of their devices these days.
Herb Alpert
Banned
If true, with production ramping up and devkit officially in the wild, I am amazed there is still no leak. Super saiyan NDA I guess.
Dark Cloud
Member
I haven't paid any attention to what this Xbox Scorpio is, but it sounds like it's their 9th gen system.
If we really really want it and we're all holding hands and focus we can really make it. 1080SLI with 64GB RAM.
Why should it be? 3rd party would probably not going to use the extra power.
Still think the upgrade is a bad idea. They try to compare it with upgrades from mobile/tablets, but it's not the same.
There isn't one game I think on phone/tablet that only works on last generation because of the power.
PhantomZhu
Banned
I just hope Nintendo can manage to get actual 3rd party support.
It would have been the WiiUs saving grace, but they just HAD to cut corners.
It would have been the WiiUs saving grace, but they just HAD to cut corners.
I thought she clarified though that she didn't know whether the info she received meant more or less powerful than XB1. Did we get some new info from her? (Or maybe I misunderstood the previous info.)
I didn't mean to imply that I do or do not believe it, I was simply curious.
That's an old rumour though - it looks like NX was delayed from holiday 2016 to Q2 2017, so any old rumours on production schedules seem to be invalid, even if they were from credible sources.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Almost thought this was a serious post.
Skittzo0413
Member
Honestly I'm not willing to believe any insiders know anything about the power of the NX simply because not one of them seems to know what the hell the NX is!
The only place where this type of rumor makes sense is coming from a third party who has a SDK with target specs listed. If that is where this information originated, then people should understand that those target specs can change greatly between now and launch, especially when the launch was "delayed" (we don't know for sure if it was ever planned for Fall 2016).
Also keep in mind, as I said above, nobody really knows what the NX is. Is it a console? Handheld? Ecosystem with both? Toaster? Boat? Satellite computer network bent on world domination?
We really can't answer that at this point, and if an insider who has shared information with us knew, we would presumably know as well. Since we have no idea what it is, we really can't make any judgements on the power- if it's a handheld that's close to XB1 in power with a 540p screen, then it could very well have games that look comparable to those on Neo.
The point is, taking this rumor as fact when we don't even know if the NX is a traditional console, and then yelling "dooooom!" is pretty silly.
The only place where this type of rumor makes sense is coming from a third party who has a SDK with target specs listed. If that is where this information originated, then people should understand that those target specs can change greatly between now and launch, especially when the launch was "delayed" (we don't know for sure if it was ever planned for Fall 2016).
Also keep in mind, as I said above, nobody really knows what the NX is. Is it a console? Handheld? Ecosystem with both? Toaster? Boat? Satellite computer network bent on world domination?
We really can't answer that at this point, and if an insider who has shared information with us knew, we would presumably know as well. Since we have no idea what it is, we really can't make any judgements on the power- if it's a handheld that's close to XB1 in power with a 540p screen, then it could very well have games that look comparable to those on Neo.
The point is, taking this rumor as fact when we don't even know if the NX is a traditional console, and then yelling "dooooom!" is pretty silly.
All in all I think Nintendo will reveal the NX platform at the beginning of next year. It wouldn't make sense to reveale it later this year if they want people to buy Wii U's and N3DS's.
Performance of both will probably be a bit adjusted if it was meant to come out later this year. What about the new Arm A73 CPU's? Can Nintendo switch to them or is it simply to far in the plans (if they are going with ARM that is)
Performance of both will probably be a bit adjusted if it was meant to come out later this year. What about the new Arm A73 CPU's? Can Nintendo switch to them or is it simply to far in the plans (if they are going with ARM that is)
Milly Osworth
Member
Its a terrible idea to release an outdated videogame console again. Neo and Scorpio are the next consoles, NX has to compete with those. The only time Nintendo succesfully managed to NOT compete with other consoles was with the Wii. That will not happen again unless Nintendo is extremely lucky or brilliant.
But again, as long as the Sony maintains the mandate of having all PS4K games work on the PS4, the NX Console should be fine. Third parties still have to support the base PS4 & XB1.
Fourth Storm
Member
NX is caught between a rock and a hard place with the new console announcements. No longer can Nintendo leverage their hardware as a low cost alternative, as those spots will be filled by the PS4/Xbone and their already mature software libraries/online platforms. Whatever NX is, it must be truly unique in order to stand a chance.
Aztechnology
Member
Well... the R9 480 was just announced at $200 and likely has performance above a GTX 980. This is probably about the same chip that the new Xbox and Neo will use in APU form with varying clock speeds. Unless the NX is just something really special in lieu of the massive performance gap there's going to be... then I kind of hope this is it for Nintendo's home console plans. I know that's kind of screwed up for me to say. But I'd rather see them either focus on Handheld/mobile or support Multiplat as a third party software company. Maybe we'd even see some Nintendo games on PC.
I just don't really see their place in the future in home sales if they keep releasing sub par performance consoles.
I just don't really see their place in the future in home sales if they keep releasing sub par performance consoles.
Nintendo doesn't do the ultimate final designs for the hardware components, no. But they don't just go "hey AMD, NVidia - go ahead and make us some parts. Let us know when they are done. Make sure they are proprietary so no one else can use them. Thanks!"
Nintendo is there at the ground level telling those companies exactly what Nintendo wants. It's like designing your own house. My parents are building a new house and my dad used an application to custom design it to their likings. of course, he isn't building it. A contractor is building it and it will looking pretty dang close to his designs, but that's because in those designs he doesn't have to worry about the finer things like how to wire the house, how to handle plumbing, etc. Contractors, electricians, and plumbers will deal with that. But he still ended up designing it.
This is likely how it works at Nintendo. They tell them what to make (along with probably conversations over what is possible at a certain price line), and then it happens.
You can have plug and play GPU's, and maybe as silly as you think that concept is with using an "old board" for it... that's exactly what PC's do and it works - if you have a decent board you're set for a decade or more. I use a external GPU with my laptop and it makes a MASSIVE differences for a mere fraction of the price it would cost me to buy a new laptop that has that desktop level GPU in it (over $2000, versus just spending $500). The thing is, it's not just that GPU too. The 1080 coming out? I could buy that and use it with my laptop too - again, at the fraction of the cost it would be get a new laptop that has it in it.
The only time I need to worry about truly upgrading is when my RAM or CPU becomes a bottleneck, but CPU's are used as intensively as they once were with so much getting offloaded to GPUs. So my i7 quad core 6th gen CPU in my laptop is likely good to run games at ultra settings for another 6 to 8 years, where my GPU is what is going to hold me back (970m without the addon, and that's not anything snuff at).
A scenario like this for the NX makes GPU addon upgrades highly feasible, especially as a between gen upgrade without inherently replacing your initial hardware and they can probably work out deals to make it increasingly affordable. That way say you have you're nice $400 NX but two years later they have an addon for it/ That addon is optional, but costs $100. For that $100, you get full 4k capabilities in games. You can still play games without it, but it's just better with it. That seems far more desirable to the market than say, what Sony and Microsoft are doing, doesn't it? Releasing whole new boxes that are goung to run for $400 to $500 when people already spent that on the systems they own now. And Nintendo can still create that box too for brand new customers, but the upgrade enables current ones to not feel slighted, since they can get the same power with a cheap addon.
Chû Totoro
Member
I don't play a lot of mobile games (reading my post on Mobile you could see that I'm finding that overall mobile game's quality is bad) but Room 3 is a good example (I can't play it on my iPad 2).
So yeah I wish consoles' upgrades will be different than mobile but if Nintendo follows what Apple is doing with iPhones / iPad we'll have more powerful similar devices only to make previous ones gradually obsolete because not enough power to run Apps using the bigger resolution (I'm exaggerating but surely the display uses a big part of the upgraded resources in each new version of their products...).
Candescence
Member
If you actually think Neo and Scorpio are "the next consoles", you are utterly delusional. They're merely 'premium and improved' variants of existing current-gen systems, much like what Nintendo does with its handhelds, except with upgraded specs, which is much like the New3DS. The fact that the Neo won't have games that won't be on the original PS4 is pretty much proof of that - if Sony did otherwise, they'd be splitting the install base and shooting themselves in the foot.
Nintendo doesn't need to compete with them directly, because they're not the main competition, and devs won't be directly developing for them.
You'd be right about the Neo, but the Scorpio is a bit up in the air.
I know you jest, but I think it's safe to say the gekko micro-architecture isn't returning this time. Since gekko is only 32bit it can only address 4GB of RAM in total. All signs point to the NX having more than that, so unless Nintendo foots the bill for re-engineering the core into 64bit then the only choice is to abandon it.
While true, you are missing the idea that NX is an agnostic platform, and Nintendo themselves are building such a platform from the ground up. Nintendo has always had to appeal to gamers with a unique hook. Gamecube proved to Nintendo that they can't just offer a "me too" device.
NX will almost certainly be a platform with multiple devices running the exact same games at different settings, allowing Nintendo room to really react to the market, releasing a handheld that can play current generation games is a must in this scenario, but if they can pull that off, they have nothing to fear.
Bots are better than you
Banned
I said it before, i'll just say it again, they can always mimic a implied 2/3 years cycle of console --> improved console with the SCDs.
Basically NX --> PS4K/Scorpio level SCD 2 years in --> NX successor(s) 2 years after SCD.
Nintendo releasing a PS4K/Scorpio level hardware at a PS4K/Scorpio level price could very well be suicidal, release a system thats about or slighty above the vanilla consoles for a good mass-market price and go foward with mass-market-priced SCDs.
Imo, with the new situation right now, it's vital that they use that SCD patent.
geordiemp
Member
But your still talking about a PC, where RAM, CPU and GPU are discrete components on motherboards with interconnectors.
All the modern consoles will be most likely be APU (CPU + GPU) and memory all lumped closely together on a small board for costs.
So I agree an external GPU is possible and is done with laptops, and heck you could have a PC build with a connector on the outside, but cant see it with an APU design.
In your laptop example IF IT WERE CONSOLE LIKE, you would have to plug in an APU card with new CPU, GPU, Memory and basically most of the console guts. That was my point...
Also why would Nintendo patent a plug in GPU which has been around for many years ?
Skittzo0413
Member
Minor correction- Iwata's discussion of future dedicated gaming hardware follows what you said, but as for codename NX itself- we really don't know if NX is hardware or not. NX could very well be the first piece of hardware released in Nintendo's new ecosystem, and I tend to think it is because whenever Nintendo people talk about it they seem to be referring to a single system, barring translation issues.
Candescence
Member
That's true, don't trust MS to not perform yet another massive blunder this gen. Sony is being smart by keeping the install base unified, but MS might get desperate and shoot itself in the foot again in the process.
Yeah, Nintendo can easily catch up with SCDs or iterative systems, no problem. Trying to match Neo/Scorpio right off the bat is suicidal, Nintendo is much better off providing a base console that is affordable to the average consumer like Sony did with the PS4 (and what MS didn't do with the Xbone, ironically repeating the PS3's price blunder).
Milly Osworth
Member
That is a good point. If Nintendo doesnt play ball their alternative could have been a cheap decent console. Even though I think that market isnt really there. Budget gamers can just play on their phone or tablet.
But even IF the budget console market is there, then the og PS4 or Xbone fill that void now.
Harsh times ahead for Nintendo.
Iwata lays it out right in that "brothers in a family of systems" answer at the investors meeting, here is a quick article I found about it: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ni...nd-mobile-will-be-like-brothers/1100-6417496/
He specifically says they will be unifying the handheld and console systems starting with the next system. Then goes on to ultimately compare it to iOS and Android. What is laid out in that answer is the ONLY way forward for Nintendo. Even with just the "success" of the 3DS and Wii U, they would be perfectly fine with their 70+ million dedicated video game devices in the wild. Even if they lost a huge chunk of that "success" with NX ecosystem, they would likely hold plenty of gamers to justify their business. This is also all being supplemented by smart phone apps.
Chû Totoro
Member
NX could in theory work with Wii U and 3DS.
NX is a platform. HW will come to but it uses the NX tech (and the HW coming after this will keep using NX).
Edit: my understanding of course
NX is a platform. HW will come to but it uses the NX tech (and the HW coming after this will keep using NX).
Edit: my understanding of course
Actually Microsoft needs to start fresh as well, like Nintendo. Xbone is not failing like Wii U, but Sony is driving the story this gen and Microsoft is rather going towards an Xbox family that includes other Xbox devices and Windows gaming. It's not a blunder actually, but that's not a discussion for this thread. But pay attention to Microsoft, they are not doing stupid things this time (and I say that as someone who is not invested at all in Xbox).
Skittzo0413
Member
No, no you're misunderstanding me. Iwata explicitly said that Nintendo's future hardware would work that way but no one ever said that "NX" represents that ecosystem like iOS and Android.
The "NX" codename was announced after all of those Iwata statements, so we just naturally assumed "NX" meant this ecosystem, but it could be referring to the first system released in that ecosystem.
wonderful103
Member
No, I don't think so.
Everyone is doing the iterative h/w route now and platform as a service.
No more generational resets. Branding may be a different story here, but it's going to be iterative from a h/w and software perspective.
If anything, the Neo seems like the more aimless product for the wrong reasons, which is going to bind Sony to the PS4 for longer. I think MSs plan is not what they expected.
Yes, but Microsoft's iterative route might start with Scorpio.
Edit:
Sony is doing a "new 3ds" with the only scope being to cash in of the whales (the early adopters of PS4). And it works for them because they have a huge base so they don't need Neo to be extremely successful but just to bring the necessarily spike in sales while ensuring a smooth transition towards iterative hardware.
wonderful103
Member
Why would it? It's going to be a box running w10 custom, based on the same api and using the same tools.
Because forcing Xbone parity would be a big problem for Scorpio, would make it unable to bank on the advantages.
wonderful103
Member
I wouldn't say that either. A pc game running on low or medium (ps4-like settings) vs a pc game running on high or ultra are very different in terms of image quality and frame rate, and available headroom for higher resolutions or extra effects etc. Most titles are made to scale well nowadays, and to obtain higher frame rates, resolutions, use higher resolution textures or have better image quality (or to do VR well) requires a lot more on the back end.
Candescence
Member
Thing is, if Sony is forcing devs to develop for the PS4 primarilly, with games having a Neo version that looks better and runs better, MS still has the problem of the biggest player this generation driving development, so they can't encourage devs to take full advantage of the hardware anyway without breaking from the console with the biggest install base. That's something Nintendo can take advantage of, they don't need to go beyond the regular PS4 until Sony finally decides to move on.
MS's box is just a baseline for their new widespread gaming ideas.
PS4K is...an iterative box.
Like, you told PS4 owners the PS4 is the best for 3 years and now you say 'lol, just kidding, this is' then MS turns around and says 'nope, this is.' Console Gaming is getting back into an arms race that killed a lot of console developers and sent them to mobile for greener pastures. PS4K, IMO, is VERY short sighted. If you announce PS5 in 2-3 years, how many people are going to rush out and get it versus them saying 'nah, I'll wait for the more powerful PS5?'
What Microsoft is doing is saying (I think) that 'Xbox 10 (I'm calling it that) is the beginning of our new generation' and essentially there'll be more traditional gaming boxes from them in the future, BUT (and this is key to skipping out on iterative devices in the future) you can go ahead and get a PC to bypass that baseline because that's where you can increase your performance. I could be wrong, mind you, but it seems like they're going that. Xbox 10 could be just as short-sighted, but Microsoft turning people onto PC, where they rule, isn't really a losing proposition for them.
So where does Nintendo come in all of this? I think they're going to be a mix of Sony and MS but closer to the MS side. They'll have multiple devices, a unified OS, games can go between devices (both retail and digital), and run better on the higher end devices. BUUUUUUUUT...I'm wondering how this gimmick of theirs affects how they design their games on both devices. I don't think they can have devices where you get such radically different play styles on both, but I legitimately don't know.
Skittzo0413
Member
When you look at how multiplats actually perform on PCs these days, it paints a different picture. Developers don't want to spend all that extra time and money making the game scalabe to dozens of different targets, and performance on PCs shows that in a lot of modern games.
Now, it's obviously easier to scale between four different power levels than having a spectrum of power (like on PC) but it's still an extra hoop for third parties to jump through. Developers probably aren't happy about this, unless they can develop exclusively for Neo or Scorpio.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Until Sony is willing to move on from the original PS4 (which may not be for a good long while), Nintendo isn't as screwed as some are saying they are.
KinofChaos
Banned
I don't think Nintendo has much hope of competing against the PS4 anyway, regardless of neo.
wonderful103
Member
The overwhelming majority of multi plats play great (and certainly better) on pc and most of them can take advantage of any extra hardware you throw at them via resolution, higher quality textures, frame rate boosts, v/gsync etc etc etc etc.
So I don't see where any of you are going with this. Is it extra work for developers? Yes. Is it extra qa for publishers? Yes. But platform as a service is the way the industry is headed and everyone is going to have to adjust. Exclusive games are certainly not in the cards either, especially not according to everything that's been leaked of the TRCs.
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