Clinton514
Member
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Empathy - "But I can't relate to a girl!"
- Thread starter Veelk
- Start date
ShinMaruku
Member
Some people just have their feelings on how they should enjoy their games. We can all be free to disagree. Some people are just less empathetic than others, as long as it does not fall below a certain point it should be fine.
zelhawks37
Member
I don't mind playing as female characters at all. Heck, my favorite character in a video game is Estelle Bright.
DevilDog
Member
This... this is your starting point? How is anyone who disagrees with you going to argue here? This is an opinion made up from thin air and completely misrepresents the problem.
Lol these are almost the same words i used in the thread op is referencing. Honestly, as long as i'm having fun, i dont even need to relate to the character.
I think it's super telling that anyone who thinks the same way as those quoted in the OP haven't shown up to defend themselves. Hopefully theyre reading all of these responses and feeling embarassed about their ignorance, and contemplating a change of heart, perhaps even getting excited about embracing diversity!
Just like with books, movies, and music, I like playing games created by and featuring people different than me. It helps me see the world in different ways, understand different experiences and struggles. I'd be so much more of a close minded person if I hadn't been exposed to such a diversity of voices and perspectives.
Rinj von Scoot
Member
"I can't relate to playing a female character because I'm male!!!" is the funniest fuckin thing to me
I've been playing games starring men for three decades and somehow I've been able to empathize with most of those characters despite being a different gender (and age, most of the time), so cry me a river about it
I've been playing games starring men for three decades and somehow I've been able to empathize with most of those characters despite being a different gender (and age, most of the time), so cry me a river about it
Clinton514
Member
Honestly, I haven't touched the series myself. lol Doesn't seem like something I'm missing anyway. And I can live with not knowing. Which people seem to have a hard time accepting.
Banana Aeon
Member
What's the problem?
This is the kind of thing that depresses me.
It can only come down to a misplaced sense of entitlement. The kind thats painfully embarrasing to someone once they're aware of it.
I completely disagree. What about that statement was wrong or misrepresentative?
I like playing as different types of people, it is exciting to role play a bit and see the world differently. Plus we don't need everything to be the same damn thing all the time.
With that said I don't think we need to call out people for saying how they feel. If they like to get in the shoes of the character and struggle to relate than they are allowed to feel that way. As long as they say it in a civil fashion I don't see the need to shit on their feelings (note I did not read the other thread to see if they were in fact civil).
With that said I don't think we need to call out people for saying how they feel. If they like to get in the shoes of the character and struggle to relate than they are allowed to feel that way. As long as they say it in a civil fashion I don't see the need to shit on their feelings (note I did not read the other thread to see if they were in fact civil).
freethought
Member
Is there any driving in it? Because I'm a car.
Loving FFXV by the way.
Pokemaniac
Member
I've definitely noticed there is a not insignificant portion of people who aren't satisfied unless they can self-insert into everything. It's probably where we get the (in my opinion very dismissive) attitude that more player choice is always better. That attitude really grinds my gears, since it shows a general lack of respect for game design.
I wasn't exactly inviting disagreement on that point. I mean, I want to be unequivocal on this point: If you have trouble relating to people based on gender, ethnicity, or sexuality, there is a problem. If you disagree on that point, you're basically...stating some deeply ingrained prejudice.
The point of the thread is to try to give a safe space for people who feel that way to change, not to discuss whether it's right to not relate to someone based on those things. That's why my points basically boil down to "You CAN relate to them, it takes effort, and it's a good thing to do". The point is that these feels may not be right, but you feeling them doesn't automatically make you a bad person.
However, if you disagree with the premise of the thread itself...well, you can voice that, I guess, but neogaf generally isn't the place for that kind of talk.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I'm a black dude and I in the vast VAST majority of cases have to play as a straight white males with brown hair and a some sort of facial hair, dudes have NO excuse with this "Can't relate" bullshit. This and "they better be well written" are such bad transparent excuses that i'd prefer it if you just take your privileged ass and just say what you mean:
"I don't wanna play as someone who's not white, straight, and male because I'm so used to constantly being represented that seeing a game that's not all about me makes me uncomfortable because I have a serious issue with empathy and equal rights."
Thanks for this thread Veelk.
"I don't wanna play as someone who's not white, straight, and male because I'm so used to constantly being represented that seeing a game that's not all about me makes me uncomfortable because I have a serious issue with empathy and equal rights."
Thanks for this thread Veelk.
You're missing the point.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't know if I'd call it particularly odd. Naughty Dog games, since Uncharted at least, have very much fallen on the "fantasy" side of the design spectrum, even in more "serious" games like TLoU, where the player is meant to (or rather the designers hope they will) project onto the character.
That's not an excuse for "I can't relate to a girl" I don't think, the idea that you can only enjoy the fantasy of being someone like yourself is kinda bullshit. But there are absolutely games that want you "be" the character more than "control" the character
Clinton514
Member
For teh feels bruh
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Because the majority of them are by design, self inserts for the player. Who's usually presumed to be straight, white, and male.
I think this is a part of it. I get the impression from some people I talk to in real life that they're not interested in a game without the elements of self insertion and power fantasy. They seem to see a child or uncool protagonist as undermining the entire point of video games.
DeadPhoenix
Member
Playing a character who looks like me is nearly impossible, fortunately its not an issue to me. Though I'd love to see a game actually try and then people mistake him for being Hispanic.
Astral Dog
Member
or nonexistant, i wonder if we can achieve a Middle ground
Unfortunately :-(
There have been a few advances at least
what the hell is wrong with people? why is this a problem? Do you know how many games non white male 30 year olds had to play as middle aged white males in video games.
Get real, lmao this is not even an issue.
Thankfully i play games mostly for gameplay so couldn't care less. Even if it's heavy story, I don't care to relate. Embarrassing
Get real, lmao this is not even an issue.
Thankfully i play games mostly for gameplay so couldn't care less. Even if it's heavy story, I don't care to relate. Embarrassing
gkovacs314
Banned
I love female leads as I'm a female.
But, please, do not force it, either way.
Do not make this decision from a political view, it is bad for we females.
It should be fluid. People shouldn't notice if is an alien, male, female, trans.
We have more examples from forced males and females than fluid ones.
Gears have a forced male lead. Star wars have a fluid female lead.
But, please, do not force it, either way.
Do not make this decision from a political view, it is bad for we females.
It should be fluid. People shouldn't notice if is an alien, male, female, trans.
We have more examples from forced males and females than fluid ones.
Gears have a forced male lead. Star wars have a fluid female lead.
I dunno, man. As much as I like Batman, he has gotten incredibly boring as of late because he's everywhere.
chillybright
Banned
Meh. Still find those quotes ridiculous if they have played a lot of games. And how is that related to Gamergate in any way?
Even if they were being serious, I don't see any problem. It's their money and their choice. I know many girls who don't play ugly monster characters in League of Legends or outright refuse to play male champions because they just like female avatars more. There are players who find Geralt being a fucking and killing machine repulsive then don't wanna to finish/play The Witcher. Does that make them "dangerous"? lmao no. They play whatever they like.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Why is like the only other post you've made about how its also bad we got a female lead in the new Uncharted thing?
InsaneFandom
Member
Yeah those arguments have never made sense to me.
The impression I get whenever I hear them is at best its some gross form of entitlement (I can't possibly play as a character who wasn't designed as my own personal power fantasy!), at worst its someone trying to veil their homophobia/sexism/racism -shrug-
Now there's nothing wrong with having a preference of course. I'm a female and you know what, when given a choice I often opt for the 'white male' at least on a first playthrough (I play a lot of RPGs). They'll also be some kind of elf mage if that's an option.
But trying to suggest you can't relate to someone just because they're the opposite gender or another race is ridiculous. People are people.
Decent writing can make you feel empathy with pretty much anything and connecting with characters who have very different view points and life experiences to yourself is one of the greatest things about fiction imo.
The impression I get whenever I hear them is at best its some gross form of entitlement (I can't possibly play as a character who wasn't designed as my own personal power fantasy!), at worst its someone trying to veil their homophobia/sexism/racism -shrug-
Now there's nothing wrong with having a preference of course. I'm a female and you know what, when given a choice I often opt for the 'white male' at least on a first playthrough (I play a lot of RPGs). They'll also be some kind of elf mage if that's an option.
But trying to suggest you can't relate to someone just because they're the opposite gender or another race is ridiculous. People are people.
Decent writing can make you feel empathy with pretty much anything and connecting with characters who have very different view points and life experiences to yourself is one of the greatest things about fiction imo.
EventHorizon
Member
You just called me out. I was all ready to agree with most, if not all, of the posts here by saying that I can't understand how anybody would get upset about the sex of the game character they played. However your point made me realize that while I have absolutely no problem playing a woman during asexual gameplay, I don't want to roleplay a woman doing feminine actions like romancing a man. That would most likely be a, pardon the pun, gamebreaker for me if a game forced it.
So I have to admit that at some level I have to be able to view myself as the character I play. Jumping, swinging a sword, shooting a gun and so on are all actions I can inherit any character and perform as that character. Flirting with or kissing a man are simply actions I would never perform. As a result I can't relate to any character who would do those actions so I'd rather not play them.
It's related to gamergate because that community is of the opinion that games are only for white males.
Equating dislike of a character for being a murderer to dislike of a character for being a female is a pretty fucked up world-view.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
Sounds like a ban message.
Thinking really really really really really hard here. I believe the first time I encountered a female protagonist in a video game, it was Julie from Zombies Ate My Neighbors. Her brother Zach was a viable option but I never bothered to try him. Before I was able to think critically on topics such as sex and gender, it was completely OK in my world to play as a girl. And that is before Laura Croft was introduced as both protagonist and also fan service.
Shout out to Blizzard for their design of the rogue in Diablo!
It is still a challenge to find protagonists of color in video games
Ninja Scooter
Member
Why does being "relatable" only seem to come up when it's minorities getting the shine in a game for once? Do these same gamers seriously think they relate somehow to space marines or WW2 soldiers or assassins just because they are male? I wish they would either just admit (or realize) that they are simply insecure and immature as fuck. It's about time we start calling this bullshit mentality for what it is.
ByWatterson
Member
I don't particularly think of myself as a white male in his 30s.
I regard myself as a human being that is interested in the stories of other human beings. Only when their stories don't make sense or are poorly drawn do I lose my suspension of disbelief and habitation within the character.
I loved being Joel. I loved being Ellie. I love being Lara Croft and Nathan Drake, and young Link.
Bring on TLOU2, and do it fast.
I regard myself as a human being that is interested in the stories of other human beings. Only when their stories don't make sense or are poorly drawn do I lose my suspension of disbelief and habitation within the character.
I loved being Joel. I loved being Ellie. I love being Lara Croft and Nathan Drake, and young Link.
Bring on TLOU2, and do it fast.
potatohead
Member
This exact same topic came up for GTA SA in 2004 on this forum.
People were bitching about having to play as a black guy as if being black or having "black characteristics" physically or otherwise made him unrelateable.
People are fucked up man. That's all I got to say on that.
People were bitching about having to play as a black guy as if being black or having "black characteristics" physically or otherwise made him unrelateable.
People are fucked up man. That's all I got to say on that.
What about all of the women who play games, where kissing a female is the only option? Should they be disgusted, and refuse to play them?
The mods have harvested pretty relentlessly lately. Usually these threads turn into a Breitbart comment section within minutes. I'm astounded the first page isn't just a graveyard like it normally is.
Life is Strange is one of my favourite games of all time so the prospect of playing as Ellie is far from offputting to me. Though I will also say I never understood the need for the character to represent exactly who you are in every game you play, variety is nice and stepping outside of who you are can be very valuable.
Clinton514
Member
Why is it our business if she does refuse it?
The funny thing is, it's not even necessary for you to empathise with the character to be able to play and enjoy the game.
In its most basic form, your player character is just a puppet for your controller inputs - the way you interact with the game world. That requires zero emotional investment or empathy on the part of the player.
Do you need to empathise with Mario? Or your Wipeout vehicle? Or the Doom marine? No.
Which is why the argument just doesn't hold up and exposes some rather plain sexism.
In its most basic form, your player character is just a puppet for your controller inputs - the way you interact with the game world. That requires zero emotional investment or empathy on the part of the player.
Do you need to empathise with Mario? Or your Wipeout vehicle? Or the Doom marine? No.
Which is why the argument just doesn't hold up and exposes some rather plain sexism.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
People will always notice if a character is a woman because there are so few examples of strong women in this industry. Deciding on a character is ALWAYS a fluid choice, stop projecting.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
As a human I can relate to human emotions. Anyone who thinks only men can relate to men, or women can relate to women may have some concerning features. Frankly I'm embarrassed for whoever the 40 year old is that OP quoted.