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Even teenage boys are sick of sexist video games, survey finds

F

Finale Fireworker

Member
jeemer said:
Surely at least some of these particular surveys would involve actual measuring, since it is a physical attribute as opposed to an intangible personal opinion.
Click to expand...

Are physicians around the world calling for male volunteers to allow their Linuses to be measured for science?

In this scenario, why would men with small penises be eager to let a doctor record that they have a small penis? Wouldn't only people comfortable with their penis size submit to the survey? Wouldn't, then, data also skew high?

This explanation doesn't work either. No explanation as to why a properly conducted survey would be inaccurate works. Surveys are valuable and accurate data collection.

Why do so many people want this survey to be wrong? Why do they want surveys IN GENERAL to be wrong?
 
F

Finale Fireworker

Member
I am upset that so much of this thread is people saying that the sample group is either lying or that the survey had to be conducted improperly.

Because it means you guys can't believe that high school boys aren't sexist. It means you are more accepting of the idea that high school boys are sexists than the idea that they're progressive and inclusive.

And that is terrible, reductive, and depressing.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Threads like this make me happy, and remind me that the whole Goober Gate thing is overwith.

Next stop: full blown feminist slants in all things video games!

Finale Fireworker said:
I am upset that so much of this thread is people saying that the sample group is either lying or that the survey had to be conducted improperly.

Because it means you guys can't believe that high school boys aren't sexist. It means you are more accepting of the idea that high school boys are sexists than the idea that they're progressive and inclusive.

And that is terrible, reductive, and depressing.
Click to expand...

You can certainly tell the boys from the men in this one. Don't worry, I give it one or two mod cullings to fix it.
 
S

Some Nobody

Junior Member
Garrett Hawke said:
They actually think the titty is great and the titty should be out at all times because they are Real™ Men.
Click to expand...

You're being facetious. But you want the honest answer? They probably don't care. Like most things that happen in this world, its usually not intent but apathy that keeps it around.
 
B

Biker19

Banned
Finale Fireworker said:
I am upset that so much of this thread is people saying that the sample group is either lying or that the survey had to be conducted improperly.

Because it means you guys can't believe that high school boys aren't sexist. It means you are more accepting of the idea that high school boys are sexists than the idea that they're progressive and inclusive.

And that is terrible, reductive, and depressing.
Click to expand...

We're thinking, "yeah right, they're offended."

I can't believe you guys are buying this.
 
C

chrominance

Member
SolidSnakex said:
Isn't this just the GDC report that was discussed a few months ago or is this a new report?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1028416
Click to expand...

99% sure it's the same report from GDC.

In collaboration with my colleagues, Charlie Kuhn and gaming expert Ashly Burch, we surveyed more than 1,400 middle and high school students from throughout the country last year. We asked them to tell us what they thought about gender representation in games, what games girls play, and more. Our survey was exploratory—we didn’t have the resources to conduct a thorough evaluation—but we believed it was an important issue to study and hope others will follow.
Click to expand...

By the way, if you haven't seen the GDC talk in question, it's worth watching. It goes into more detail about their findings, though I don't think the Gamergate angle was covered there specifically.

Wiseman and Burch both acknowledge that this isn't as rigorous as a proper study (something Wiseman states again in the Time piece), but right now it seems to be the best data we have about this sort of thing. As for the people who think all those high school boys must be lying, I think people are falling into the trap of projecting their own childhood experiences onto today's youth.
 
D

Dark_castle

Junior Member
giphy.gif
 
K

Kaizu

Member
Finale Fireworker said:
Are physicians around the world calling for male volunteers to allow their Linuses to be measured for science?

In this scenario, why would men with small penises be eager to let a doctor record that they have a small penis? Wouldn't only people comfortable with their penis size submit to the survey? Wouldn't, then, data also skew high?

This explanation doesn't work either. No explanation as to why a properly conducted survey would be inaccurate works. Surveys are valuable and accurate data collection.

Why do so many people want this survey to be wrong? Why do they want surveys IN GENERAL to be wrong?
Click to expand...

They don't want the survey to be wrong, they are just skeptical because no one knows how the survey was conducted and what were the questions asked. Depending on the methodology, things can be skewed. Those who believe that the survey is accurate is making as big of an assumption as those who think it's outright wrong. We shouldn't talk about absolute here when the methodology is unclear. I also don't see any agenda here, just very funny jokes.

Anyway, reporting your penis size to be smaller will decrease the average size so that those who actually hit below average is now the average size! Didn't you watch that TMI Southpark episode? The brotherhood bond for our penis size is a deep one, we can take that hit to make our bros sleep better at night... ...I am just joking by the way so don't take that too seriously.
 
Yoshi

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Garrett Hawke said:
Or the survey could've been conducted by a piece of paper and people wrote down how they truly felt because sexism is a learned behaviour which they hopefully didn't learn
Click to expand...

I doubt sexualisation is a learnt behaviour. I seriously doubt that. In fact, I think the other way around, not sexualising people is a learnt behaviour, because the sex drive is a rather natural thing.
Deft Beck said:
What incentive do they have to lie?
Click to expand...
Depending on the wording of the question, the boys might have felt it is the more socially accepted behaviour to give a certain answer. For instance if, in Germany, you would ask if someone is against foreigners, almost no one would answer "no", if you were to ask if stricter rules for asylum or working in Germany for foreigners should be instated, if foreigners take away jobs from Germans, you would get quite a lot of "yes" answers.

That being said, I assume most people would find stuff like the Fire Emblem ass&boobs-shots irritating for instance, so even a high number of people saying there is too much is not too surprising. If it is a bad idea, economically speaking, to sexualise in such a way is a completely different question though.
 
Finaika

Finaika

Member
Spukc said:
When i was around 14 i would only think of BEWBZ ..
It's called puberty and there is nothing wrong with being interested in the opposite or same sex.
and companies like to use this..

SEX SELLS
deal with it :)
Click to expand...

Not all 14 year olds think about BEWBZ.
 
G

Grakl

Member
Spukc said:
When i was around 14 i would only think of BEWBZ ..
It's called puberty and there is nothing wrong with being interested in the opposite or same sex.
and companies like to use this..

SEX SELLS
deal with it :)
Click to expand...
BEWBZ LOL AMIRITE
 
T

TheHighFlyingBirds

Member
oni-link said:
“Interestingly, boys care less about playing as a male character as they age and girls care more about playing as a female one,” writes Wiseman.

Maybe it’s that, as girls get older and realise that there’s a representational imbalance in games, they seek out relatable characters in protest. Or perhaps it symbolises much deeper issues around young women, representation and identity.
Click to expand...

Or maybe it shows females can be sexist to. Sexism is a two way street, its not just males who are, or can be sexist. I find it interesting they do not consider this, but instead look for a deeper, more meaningful answer.
 
K

Kazerei

Banned
Scientist Supreme! said:
Regardless of whether the kids were truthful, I think the sample size is too small to be really meaningful. imo
Click to expand...

The sample size is fine. I see this comment a lot when surveys get discussed, but if you just take one statistics course, you'll find out that ~500 samples is enough to estimate an opinion or parameter of the population.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
chrominance said:
Wiseman and Burch both acknowledge that this isn't as rigorous as a proper study (something Wiseman states again in the Time piece), but right now it seems to be the best data we have about this sort of thing. As for the people who think all those high school boys must be lying, I think people are falling into the trap of projecting their own childhood experiences onto today's youth.
Click to expand...
Yep, I think dismissing it would be a total mistake, but equally would be taking it as the new word of god.
 
Yoshi

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
DedValve said:
I'm...not really sure that correlates. You cant watch porn and be for womens rights at the same time?
Click to expand...

You can be for women's rights and don't think there is to much objectification in games at the same time, too. We are not talking women's rights here, we are talking presentation in games.
 
R

Ran rp

Member
Spukc said:
When i was around 14 i would only think of BEWBZ ..
It's called puberty and there is nothing wrong with being interested in the opposite or same sex.
and companies like to use this..

SEX SELLS
deal with it :)
Click to expand...

so... you're 15 then?
 
I

igor

Member
It's hilarious that the findings are almost automatically shoot down because of the presupposed nature of the survey - if anything, these kids admit that indeed this is how the representation should be.

It's a bit patronising - I am not from US, but from what I have noticed teenagers there are much more forward thinking about these issues than adults - I know tumblr might not be the best example, but apart from a lot of silliness that they post, when it comes to issues of gender and racial equality, there's a very strong and very serious tone in favour of it.


The only problem I have with these findings is that the sample size is way too small - 1400 US kids in that age range isn't much really
 
L

LegendofDragoonLives

Member
This is still a massive issue? It's been getting progressively better over the years, but it's nice to know it's being made out far worse than what reality presents.
 
V

velociraptor

Junior Member
I have yet to play Bayonetta because I loathe the concept and character.

I have to lawl when I see games with characters with all their tits out. Some of the Soul Caliber games were pretty hilarious in this respec.t
 
T

TylerDurden4321

Member
Yoshi said:
For instance if, in Germany, you would ask if someone is against foreigners, almost no one would answer "no", if you were to ask if stricter rules for asylum or working in Germany for foreigners should be instated, if foreigners take away jobs from Germans, you would get quite a lot of "yes" answers.
Click to expand...

I am german and I disagree with you on german opinions about foreigners. It might be true, that more germans think that the percentage of economic-refugees exceeds the number refugees fleeing from war and discrimination in germany, but I haven't met a person here saying "they take away our jobs". That was the 90s, man. Now people are much more likely to think "those refugees don't know shlt and haven't learned any occupation! How are they ever gonna get a job here? We will have to pay for them forever".

That being said, pretty much everyone I know in my country thinks that actual war refugees are 100% welcome in our country and should they need to stay long enough to acclimatize, get a job and pay taxes, they are welcome to stay as long they want and apply for citizenship some day.



back on topic, I agree with this opinion:
jeemer said:
i'm imagining a lot of hormonal teenage boys who are asked questions along those lines are thinking "uhhh, no. sideboob is freaking awesome" and don't want to admit it to an adult, nevermind a female adult.
Click to expand...
 
G

GrantDaNasty

Member
Wow, bunch of real dirtbags/cynical types in this thread apparently.

I'm 22 years of age, I grew up wanting women to be fairly represented in games. I see boys nowadays who hang out much more often with girls in social settings rather than in their own "boys club", and that's a good thing. It means people aren't scared about seeing what the other side of the fence is like once in a while. It also means there is less of a clashing of opinion and understanding when both sides have a better view of the other's rationale and thoughts.

All media needs to stop pandering to the lowest common denominator. We're actively avoiding a solution to a problem that has existed for a very long time, all because of fear that short-term profits and gains are to be lost.
 
Daffy Duck

Daffy Duck

Member
velociraptor said:
I have yet to play Bayonetta because I loathe the concept and character.

I have to lawl when I see games with characters with all their tits out. Some of the Soul Caliber games were pretty hilarious in this respec.t
Click to expand...

Sophitia in the original was just awful by design, same with Taki.

Even as 15 year olds me and my friends said how lame it was how they looked and how they had boob bounce.
 
J

jeemer

Member
Finale Fireworker said:
In this scenario, why would men with small penises be eager to let a doctor record that they have a small penis? Wouldn't only people comfortable with their penis size submit to the survey? Wouldn't, then, data also skew high?
Click to expand...

I'd have thought it'd be more along the lines of "want to get paid? looking for men to be physically measured for a completely anonymous survey on penis size" - Survey anonymous, no publishing the result, no cash. Again, it's a physical attribute, not an opinion, and I think the guy who mentioned this in the first place was joking.

Finale Fireworker said:
Surveys can be valuable and accurate data collection.
Click to expand...

FTFY. Agreed completely. But I'd like to see the full details on how they were carried out before deciding how much I want to believe the results.

Finale Fireworker said:
Why do so many people want this survey to be wrong? Why do they want surveys IN GENERAL to be wrong?
Click to expand...

I think it's more that people are dubious about the results of this particular survey (and more likely opinion surveys in general.)

I'd be much less distrustful of the results of a "What browser do you use?" online survey than a survey with male teens regarding their opinions on sexism, conducted using methods we are unaware of. No social brownie points to be lost on that answer, unlikely to be embarrassed about your preference, and it's totally anonymous.

I really get what you're saying.I hope there is less sexism in the world, I hope this stuff is being phased out. But it's also as if you're ignoring the fact that there's even a potential for a lot of these guys to be horny teens with a perceived reason to be less than truthful in their answers. To turn the question on you, and I'm totally just playing devil's advocate at this point, but why do you trust the results of a survey so much when we don't know all the details about how it was conducted?
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
igor said:
It's hilarious that the findings are almost automatically shoot down because of the presupposed nature of the survey - if anything, these kids admit that indeed this is how the representation should be.

It's a bit patronising - I am not from US, but from what I have noticed teenagers there are much more forward thinking about these issues than adults - I know tumblr might not be the best example, but apart from a lot of silliness that they post, when it comes to issues of gender and racial equality, there's a very strong and very serious tone in favour of it.
Click to expand...

There have been studies done recently that show that millennials are just as racist as their parents

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1007590
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1025305
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
Scientist Supreme! said:
Regardless of whether the kids were truthful, I think the sample size is too small to be really meaningful. imo
Click to expand...

1400 samples are too few?

lol...

Village said:
There is a time and place for everything, and enjoying pornography has no effects on how you feel about women or sexism in general?
Click to expand...

Obviously if they watch porn then they must want every woman everywhere to dress as little as possible, if not be totally naked.
Just like how I want every man in every median to be naked, even in books, fictional or otherwise.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
Biker19 said:
It's the truth, though. How many teenage boys do you see that aren't thinking about sex or anything of the sort?

That's what makes me doubt about this entire thing.
Click to expand...

You're telling me 100% of men who are tired of the objectification of women in video games are "lying to themselves."

You have had far too much of the GooberGate Kool Aid, bruh.
 
P

pantsmith

Member
This isn't a loaded question, but can anyone point to the blatantly sexualized characters this generation?

Aside from some weird exceptions, like Quiet and some fighting game ladies who have always looked that way, I feel like overall things have gotten much better, that there is much less to take offense from and thus the worst cases stand out even more by contrast. It feels very out of vogue for everyone, except maybe the Japanese.
 
Yoshi

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
TylerDurden4321 said:
I am german and I disagree with you on german opinions about foreigners. It might be true, that more germans think that the percentage of economic-refugees exceeds the number refugees fleeing from war and discrimination in germany, but I haven't met a person here saying "they take away our jobs". That was the 90s, man. Now people are much more likely to think "those refugees don't know shlt and haven't learned any occupation! How are they ever gonna get a job here? We will have to pay for them forever".

Almost everyone I know in my country thinks that actual war refugees are 100% welcome in our country and should they need to stay long enough to acclimatize, get a job and pay taxes, they are welcome to stay as long they want and apply for citizenship some day.
Click to expand...

I'm German myself and yes, the notion that they won't get a job ever is common, too, or more common at the moment, but if we are talking well-educated foreigners coming to Germany, or EU-foreigners working in Germany, you get this sentiment still (a lot more than people would be willing to say they are against foreigners, in fact, many like to preceed the statement with "Ich bin kein Rechter / Nazi, aber" or "Ich habe nichts gegen Ausländer, aber", i.e. "I'm not right / nazi, but" or "I don't have a problem with foreigners, but"). And the accusation that people applying for asylum do so for financial reasons (which is quite absurd) is enormously wide-spread. So much that I fear the right-populistic party AfD swaying even more to the right in the future might find a lot of voters with carefully worded xenophobia.
 
S

Scientist Supreme!

Banned
Kazerei said:
The sample size is fine. I see this comment a lot when surveys get discussed, but if you just take one statistics course, you'll find out that ~500 samples is enough to estimate an opinion or parameter of the population.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Never took a course but from outsider's view it looked small. Thanks for informing me of that.
 
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