with all the unemployment and layoffs happening in this economy, can we really afford to deny some willing dancers a chance to get paid $300/hr?
Its a pretty good argument for prostitution. Hope it pass in Canada BTW.
with all the unemployment and layoffs happening in this economy, can we really afford to deny some willing dancers a chance to get paid $300/hr?
I think your issue is with evolution.
Well you can't exactly expect a bunch of women to just show up at a video game party...
Notch wants his guests to be happy, good for him I guess?
There is some evidence to say that Mojang weren't involved in what happened. To that end, I apologize for spreading misinformation. But I still find people's reaction to this weird.
He might as well have paid them for sex.
News flash: many parties that are non-video game related pay women to attend, have drinks and look pretty. It's called promo or model work, shit happens in Vegas all the fucking time. I hate generalizing, but a sizable portion of people who are into gaming enough to frequent a forum such as this one probably don't know enough about social engagements where this happens and therefore it seems like something completely alien to them and then if their first knowledge of such a thing occurs in a video game industry function I guess with the current Internet climate of sensitivity to sexism I could see how such a person would be shocked at this practice. These women who do this promotional model work are more than happy to take the money and free drinks to just show up to a party. They don't need people white knighting for them. I don't know why a woman should feel less safe at a video game business function than any other one. Straight men are attracted to women and since men are generally more visual than women, they focus on a woman's appearance. This isn't "objectification", its attraction. It's not a bad thing for fuck's sake.
https://twitter.com/notch/status/317702668300738560Notch said:oooooh, I had avoided the kotaku article, and missed the implication there were escorts. I understand the emotion way, way more now. We still didn't hire anyone like that. I saw nobody like that in the VIP area. only females i saw were game devs, the host who kept refreshing my drink, and +1s.
He might as well have paid them for sex.
There is some evidence to say that Mojang weren't involved in what happened. To that end, I apologize for spreading misinformation. But I still find people's reaction to this weird.
Wow.
This way of making money is not intellectually stimulating for a person.
These women could be getting a degree/making a real career out of their lives; instead they have given in to society's vision of them in order to pay the bills.
It makes that person come off as slutty and stupid,
...and that something as artificial as money can pay for her attention.
It perpetuates stereotypes about an entire gender of people that have historically been mistreated by men.
It makes women who aren't there to make money feel uncomfortable, and creates a hostile environment towards women in the games/tech industry.
I'm against the notion of people being paid for their sexual attractiveness, yes.
I still have a hard time understanding how appreciating someone, even if it's on the level of just appreciating their beauty--hell, even if it's just appreciating the curve of their ass-- suddenly devolves us into pre-Sexual Revolution animals.
I think some people see things in black and white, when most people operate in the shades of grey.
I wonder where this will go:
I think people want more females in those position, also they want a clear 50% everywhere. The problem is that even if we want to delude ourself in saying that everybody is equal, they are not. Physical work is usually done by male where intellectual/multitasking work is made by women.I'm starting to think that posting outraged remarks about perceived sexism in the gaming industry is some kinda of new simping technique. Maybe the hopes of running into that unicorn esque "gamer girl" at a starbucks and being able to bring up a post history of ardent defense of this type of practice is going to make the panties drop.
I think it's overblown. We have respected women in high ranking positions in the industry.
I assume its a mixture of the fact that PAX is an all ages event along with the fact that there are some people that don't want to see half naked people around every corner.Why do you think some conventions like PAX prohibit booth babes entirely?
I'm a big guy. 6 foot tall, heavy, look menacing somewhat. I got many jobs because of my look. Mainly in security. When you take a job, you sell yourself to somebody for a service. Mine was to stop bad things to happen. That's what a job is. Its renting somebody so he can do something.
Now, if I was a sexy ass dude with abs made of Nintendium, why the hell would I not use my body to dance for people who want me to dance? It pays more and its way less hard than moving boxes all day or watching video cameras all day.
Just because SOME women are paid to stand around and look attractive doesn't mean they're representative of all women and sending some kind of evil undertone that that's all that they're good for. Its that individuals choice. It doesn't stop anyone from doing anything in their own life.
Why the hell would you not? Well, work out more and do it since it's so much easier and you'd make so much more money, eh? The fact is that it is much more socially comfortable for men to be in a security job type position than a male dancer position. Imagine having a girlfriend or wife while being a male dancer? Imagine telling your family and hypothetical kids your a male dancer? Do you really not see the social implications of this line of work? Why are these implications any different if you're a female?
The fact that so many men here say "HEY THEY GET PAID LOTS OF $$ AND ITS EASY!" without thinking this kind of job brings a completely different type of lifestyle that most people find unappealing speaks to the level of ignorant men talking out of their ass. Notice the complete lack of females touting your arguments as legitimate. Coincidence? Who knew that getting upset at a company when they hire women to objectify them is now a "white knighting" offense.
Regardless, seems like Notch didn't actually hire these sorts. If that's the case, good for him. The fact that he knows it would be an issue if he had shows a level of comprehension that most posters in this thread completely lack.
My point was more, if the idea is to talk to your buddies and coworkers, or people in your industry / etc, having escorts / hired-socialites defeats the purpose. If we're just talking extra servers, etc, who happen to be chatty, then there's nothing to see here. Or if the idea is, you're the club and you want the appearance of having a more equal mix of people so people don't leave, I get it. Or if it's your party and you want to pay for the appearance of being a 'high-roller' or something, well that's kinda creepy but it's your money (although being able to spend your money on what you want doesn't immunize you from criticism).Thats not what I was saying, either. My point was that there would probably be plenty of people that weren't there to just talk about work, in which case the presence of some paid socialites wouldn't hurt a thing.
The fact that so many men here say "HEY THEY GET PAID LOTS OF $$ AND ITS EASY!" without thinking this kind of job brings a completely different type of lifestyle that most people find unappealing speaks to the level of ignorant men talking out of their ass.
No, because there are men who do the exact same jobs as these women. There are male models, strippers, prostitutes and even males in the line of work being debated about in this thread.Ideally. And yet we know that women are under-represented in politics and boardrooms. Is it possible that part of the reason for this is that women still aren't always taken seriously in professional occupations? Is it possible that the common practice of hiring women to stand around and look attractive is part of the reason that some men don't perceive women as their intellectual equals? Those are genuine questions and I'd be interested in your view.
I'll just leave this here.
https://twitter.com/winnersusedrugs/status/293041508184113152
I regret nothing!
You don't speak for them, and neither does anyone else. That's where the accusation of white knighting comes in.
Wow.
Yes, let's expect the people who depending upon their job for all their income to vocally and publically complain about their working conditions, expectations, and social mutilation they go through on a daily basis. Because that won't get them fired.
Bravo.
MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS.
Why the hell would you not? Well, work out more and do it since it's so much easier and you'd make so much more money, eh? The fact is that it is much more socially comfortable for men to be in a security job type position than a male dancer position. Imagine having a girlfriend or wife while being a male dancer? Imagine telling your family and hypothetical kids your a male dancer? Do you really not see the social implications of this line of work? Why are these implications any different if you're a female?
The fact that so many men here say "HEY THEY GET PAID LOTS OF $$ AND ITS EASY!" without thinking this kind of job brings a completely different type of lifestyle that most people find unappealing speaks to the level of ignorant men talking out of their ass. Notice the complete lack of females touting your arguments as legitimate. Coincidence? Who knew that getting upset at a company when they hire women to objectify them is now a "white knighting" offense.
This Holly person sounds stupid.
Wow.
Wow.
MEN ARE FROM MARS, WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS.
Moxie Missile said:Feminist Logic: Feelings > Facts
"A lot of ppl noticed an inordinate amount of extremely hot women in the VIP area."
Sounds like she's never been to a club before.
No, because there are men who do the exact same jobs as these women. There are male models, strippers, prostitutes and even males in the line of work being debated about in this thread.
Attractive people are paid to be attractive. This isn't some new concept. And even if these things didn't exist there would most likely still be men that think women are not their equals. There have been men like that even when women didn't have the option to get photographed in a bikini for a swimsuit issue.
And some model shouldn't have to change the way she wants to live her life because
there is some sexist asshole in a boardroom who thinks women aren't as smart as he is. That again, is an individual with his own thoughts and opinions (no matter how stupid and ignorant they may be) and we shouldn't have to change the entire world just so that asshole might not think that way. Attacking the woman is the entirely wrong way to go about it. You should be judging the man for being stupid enough to think that every woman is the same as the latest model on the newest Maxim. He's the problem, not the woman doing what she wants.
You're essentially saying women should be able to do whatever they want with their
bodies....until they're doing something with them you don't approve of. Then they should stop because their personal decisions don't line up with what you think they should be doing.