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So FF will remain in the shitter for me then. Culd not stomach 15 for more than a few hours, and KH is not much better. No buy then.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I don't know why people think a remake should always stand for pretty much the exact same game, like 90% of the same DNA + prettier graphics. These games aren't made by robots. If I was an auteur game director I would want to push my creativity to the limit even if I was making a remake to a beloved game, maybe even more so in that case. And I would also like to play to my strengths and implement a lot of the stuff I've learned over the years as director of Kingdom Hearts and various other games and even improve upon it, just to bring you the best possible product I can.

You can change a lot about a game with about dropping the entire genre it fits into

Yeah I get that we have to "deal with it" and it could end up being pretty awesome but its going to be awesome in a "NEW" way

Its not going to tickle the parts of my brain that Turn Based games do and in that respect there is something being lost here


EDIT : and by new I mean not new cuz action RPGs are everywhere now

 

[Icyflamez96]

Yeah ok, because spamming X button is so much more skillfull? It's fine if you like action over turn based. But don't try to paint it as if Turn based games are anymore monotonous or limiting as Arpgs are. Because let's face, in either turn based games or action rpgs, 90% the battles require no thought.

FFVII was just spamming X too, it's just slower. I never understood people playing up the "skill" factor of that particular battle system. There were only a couple bosses that made me actually really think about what I'm doing. Otherwise it was just somewhat braindead/obvious equipment management. Even if being the absolute most efficient could be deep, it definitely wasn't required depth unless we're talking about some of the secret bosses. I expect this game to be a bit more challenging because of it's action focus, since placement and will be a factor that will raise the level of execution that's needed to get through fights.

 

[fireflame]

So, for the fight against optional bosses like the Weapons, does this mean we will have some sort of Qtes where you must attack some gems/orbs blaced on the joints of the legs/arms/head?

I already imagine fights designed like this, that would feel a bit limited.

 

[somecrazymember]

crap

 

[DrROBschiz]

FFVII was just spamming X too, it's just slower. I never understood people playing up the "skill" factor of that particular battle system. There were only a couple bosses that made me actually really think about what I'm doing. Otherwise it was just somewhat braindead/obvious equipment management. Even if being the absolute most efficient could be deep, it definitely wasn't required depth unless we're talking about some of the secret bosses. I expect this game to be a bit more challenging because of it's action focus, since placement and will be a factor that will raise the level of execution that's needed to get through fights.

Well this is some nice reductive reasoning to shit on turn based RPGs

bravo

Maybe we need better examples of what a remade FF7 could aspire too?

Sure FF7 is a pretty easy game by turn based RPG standards but this is exactly what a remake could address

The potential of turn based rpgs isnt limited by your particular viewpoint

 

[Renmyra]

So, for the fight against optional bosses like the Weapons, does this mean we will have some sort of Qtes where you must attack some gems/orbs blaced on the joints of the legs/arms/head?

I already imagine fights designed like this, that would feel a bit limited.

Why would you need a QTE?

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

I don't see it as a genre change, for one.

Whether you're clumsily standing on opposite sides of a bespoke arena taking turns swinging, or dashing around the open world where each button press means an attack, it's still an RPG. An improved and more exciting combat system doesn't make FF7r a game in a different genre.

thats...pretty absurd, Action RPGs, turn based RPGs, turn based strategy RPGs, isometric action RPGs, CRPGs, so many types of RPGs. Lumping them all together and picking one as worth playing is a dull way to enjoy games.

And if I was going to pick one, it would be turn based RPGs anyway. Action RPGs are almost universally terrible and pale in comparison to their pure action game contemporaries. At least Nier Automata exists to prove the genre has a chance to have good combat.

Sure FF7 is a pretty easy game by turn based RPG standards but this is exactly what a remake could address

The potential of turn based rpgs isnt limited by your particular viewpoint

I want to see what they could do if they were truly trying to improve on FFVII, not be different from differents sake. Its disheartening to know that no matter how good this remake is I can never enjoy it more than the original since its in a genre I enjoy less. And thus I'm not even going to bother

 

[LordOcidax]

So, for the fight against optional bosses like the Weapons, does this mean we will have some sort of Qtes where you must attack some gems/orbs blaced on the joints of the legs/arms/head?

I already imagine fights designed like this, that would feel a bit limited.

Weapons battles are going to be sh... Welp. Strategy in battles are death for this game.

 

[Suburban Thug]

Somebody above me literally said you just spam X to win in Final Fantasy 7. They think there's no strategy involved whatsoever.

What is this thread coming to

 

[TheChamp]

XV was such a good battle system along the lines of that wouldnt be too bad

 

[eggandI]

FFVII was just spamming X too, it's just slower. I never understood people playing up the "skill" factor of that particular battle system. There were only a couple bosses that made me actually really think about what I'm doing. Otherwise it was just somewhat braindead/obvious equipment management. Even if being the absolute most efficient could be deep, it definitely wasn't required depth unless we're talking about some of the secret bosses. I expect this game to be a bit more challenging because of it's action focus, since placement and will be a factor that will raise the level of execution that's needed to get through fights.

Difficulty isn't really what people are talking about. It's the amount of options available to you in battle. FFVII has orders of magnitude more customization and strategy in battles than FFXV. FFXV is a glorified mashing game and I have no hope of this remake being any better

 

[Icyflamez96]

Well this is some nice reductive reasoning to shit on turn based RPGs

bravo

Maybe we need better examples of what a remade FF7 could aspire too?

Sure FF7 is a pretty easy game by turn based RPG standards but this is exactly what a remake could address

The potential of turn based rpgs isnt limited by your particular viewpoint

I wasn't, but ok.

 

[Red Liquorice]

So FF will remain in the shitter for me then. Culd not stomach 15 for more than a few hours

Same. I couldn't stand the combat in FF15 and without a decent battle system RPGs are pointless for me. I was out after I played 15 and I'm definately out on 7 Remake.

 

[DrROBschiz]

thats...pretty absurd, Action RPGs, turn based RPGs, turn based strategy RPGs, isometric action RPGs, CRPGs, so many types of RPGs. Lumping them all together and picking one as worth playing is a dull way to enjoy games.

And if I was going to pick one, it would be turn based RPGs anyway. Action RPGs are almost universally terrible and pale in comparison to their pure action game contemporaries. At least Nier Automata exists to prove the genre has a chance to have good combat.

Universally terrible????

Ok now I am witnessing both extremes of opinion in this thread

I thought we appreciated many genres here on GAF

 

[Fou-Lu]

Somebody above me literally said you just spam X to win in Final Fantasy 7. They think there's no strategy involved whatsoever.

What is this thread coming to

I mean it pretty much is true? It is likely the easiest game in the franchise. You CAN do more, but very rarely do you NEED to.

 

[LordOcidax]

Somebody above me literally said you just spam X to win in Final Fantasy 7. They think there's no strategy involved whatsoever.

What is this thread coming to

Younger audience are never touched FF7.. that can be the only explanation.

 

[Kthulhu]

XV was such a good battle system along the lines of that wouldnt be too bad

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but really?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Still fighting over turn based vs action huh? I see where the next few gameplay trailers will go

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Universally terrible????

Ok now I am witnessing both extremes of opinion in this thread

I thought we appreciated many genres here on GAF

sorry, universally terrible is extreme, but action RPGs dont step out of the "Acceptable" range very often. Berseria is the best I've played in a while and I'd call it "Above average". Nier Automata based on the demo is the exception. Bloodborne another exception

 

[DrROBschiz]

Difficulty isn't really what people are talking about. It's the amount of options available to you in battle. FFVII has orders of magnitude more customization and strategy in battles than FFXV. FFXV is a glorified mashing game and I have no hope of this remake being any better

I love that "many ways to solve a problem" and "whats in my toolbox" approach to turn based rpgs

Not to mention building up and controlling an entire party of characters and customizing them (which is why job system type games are so fun)

But I will concede that FF7 was a pretty easy game and much lighter weight than the games that came before it.

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

Good for me.

 

[Lothar]

Somebody above me literally said you just spam X to win in Final Fantasy 7. They think there's no strategy involved whatsoever.

What is this thread coming to

He should have said spam X to win and sometimes use a summon. Then it'd be correct. There was no strategy involved. Same goes for 6, 9, and 12.

 

[fireflame]

Why would you need a QTE?

In alot of action games there is always that time where you manage to stab your weapon in a jewel/orb/gem of the enemy and have to mash X button to break it. Or press the button to block a giant fist with your blade,etc,etc. I dont say that would be interesting but i can see ff fights being partly designed around this.

 

[Holundrian]

Somebody above me literally said you just spam X to win in Final Fantasy 7. They think there's no strategy involved whatsoever.

What is this thread coming to

We gotta defend 13 and 15 as the pinnacle of engaging battle systems :-x.
People say only a couple bosses they had to think for in VII? Well that's kind of already infinity more spend on thinking at all compared to 13 and 15 for me.

I really don't like 13 and I was okay with 15 but mean those battlesystems were very much of the braindead flow kind of variety. 13 being utterly unengaging for me and 15 at least feeling great but I would never say it is satisfyingly deep. Just that 15 gave the cheap satisfaction of playing like rythm game songs on easy.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I think we can all admit that vanilla FF7 isnt the shining example of turn based depth

Its on the easy side for the majority of the game

I still love the mechanical gameplay though and the toolbox at our disposal

 

[Suburban Thug]

sorry, universally terrible is extreme, but action RPGs dont step out of the "Acceptable" range very often. Berseria is the best I've played in a while and I'd call it "Above average". Nier Automata based on the demo is the exception. Bloodborne another exception

So you've never played Wondeful 101, Bayonetta series, Devil May Cry series, Ninja Gaiden Black, Viewtiful Joe, Batnan Arkham series, Shadow of Mordor, etc

I think you are inexperienced with the genre or exaggerating. Probably the latter since this is the internet.

 

[LordOcidax]

He should have said spam X to win and sometimes use a summon. Then it'd be correct. There was no strategy involved. Same goes for 6, 9, and 12.

If your level is high in Dark Souls.. you can kill low level enemies with just one Hit, that doesn't mean nothing. Try to defeat a weapon in FF7 with just summons... Good luck.

 

[Kthulhu]

So you've never played Wondeful 101, Bayonetta series, Devil May Cry series, Ninja Gaiden Black, Viewtiful Joe, Batnan Arkham series, Shadow of Mordor, etc

Those aren't RPGs.

 

[Ferr986]

thats...pretty absurd, Action RPGs, turn based RPGs, turn based strategy RPGs, isometric action RPGs, CRPGs, so many types of RPGs. Lumping them all together and picking one as worth playing is a dull way to enjoy games.

And if I was going to pick one, it would be turn based RPGs anyway. Action RPGs are almost universally terrible and pale in comparison to their pure action game contemporaries. At least Nier Automata exists to prove the genre has a chance to have good combat.

Dragon's Dogma, Souls and Horizon also has really good combats. This is an overexageration like saying most turn based games are just about press X to win.

 

[fireflame]

The Golden Saucer arena will probably be some sort of King of the Hill quest where you have to beat all enemies in real time i guess. I am expecting a decent number of areas to be cut from the game to avoid repetitivity :/

 

[tapedeck]

I was hoping for some kind action-turn based hybrid, as I understand fully turned based AAA budget rpgs aren't happening in 2017. Sounds like its leaning completely towards action which is highly disappointing but maybe they'll be some kind of 'wait' options you can select to make it more deliberate.

 

[Suburban Thug]

Those aren't RPGs.

They have RPG mechanics. Most games are a mash up genres these days.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

So you've never played Wondeful 101, Bayonetta series, Devil May Cry series, Ninja Gaiden Black, Viewtiful Joe, Batnan Arkham series, Shadow of Mordor, etc

I think you are inexperienced with the genre or exaggerating. Probably the latter since this is the internet.

I said action RPGs are the problem and pale compared to their pure Action game contemporaries. Then you list off a bunch of pure action game contemporaries. Those are great. DMC and Bayonetta are some of my favorite games. I loved NGB as well as NG2

 

[Kthulhu]

They have RPG mechanics. Most games are a mash up genres these days.

RPG mechanic =/= RPG game

Call of Duty has RPG mechanics, that ain't no RPG.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

If your level is high in Dark Souls.. you can kill low level enemies with just one Hit, that doesn't mean nothing. Try to defeat a weapon in FF7 with just summons... Good luck.

I counter this with try to beat any optional boss ever just mashing X. The hyperbole on both sides are absurd

 

[Dark_castle]

This begs the question.

What audience is this game trying to appeal to? There changing the story, redoing the gameplay and is going to be an episodic.

If I wanted a action combat Final Fantasy game i would play XV.

???

Just because they both have action combat doesn't mean the underlying mechanics or the flow of the combat would be the same. Not to mention they're directed by different people and different teams, so the design philosophy is quite different. As for your first question, I should remind you that this a remake of one of the most popular (among BOTH hardcore and casual fans) JRPG of all time, so I think it's safe to say there is a pretty big audience for it.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Difficulty isn't really what people are talking about. It's the amount of options available to you in battle. FFVII has orders of magnitude more customization and strategy in battles than FFXV. FFXV is a glorified mashing game and I have no hope of this remake being any better

I'm not even talking "FFVII vs FFXV". I haven't played FFXV. I directly addressed "customization strategy" by saying I found it sort of brainless in FFVII and much of the depth there wasn't even really "meaningful" in the sense that it required you really think about it much, which is why I wasn't really feeling the "strategy" aspect of FFVII when I played it. (Which is why it's always lost on me when people bring it up as if it takes so much thought and strategy while all ARPGs in comparison are just mindless amirite) I think a lot of that customization could exist in an action oriented combat system too, so I'm not of the mind that this being action oriented automatically means we won't have customization.

Uh, no? FF7 was stupidly easy. You could absolutely get by most battles by simply attacking. Sometimes you'll throw a Heal or Mighty Guard up, but that's hardly what I'd call strategic. FF7's issue was that it gave you a vast amount of tools but no difficulty to really push your strategic limits. Ruby and Emerald Weapons were probably the only exception. This is coming from someone who played 7 on the highest speed on Active Mode, as there was no difficulty option.

This is basically how I feel. Of course I would equip and use magic, but I didn't find that it took much thought at all.

 

[~Cross~]

We gotta defend 13 and 15 as the pinnacle of engaging battle systems :-x.
People say only a couple bosses they had to think for in VII? Well that's kind of already infinity more spend on thinking at all compared to 13 and 15 for me.

I really don't like 13 and I was okay with 15 but mean those battlesystems were very much of the braindead flow kind of variety. 13 being utterly unengaging for me and 15 at least feeling great but I would never say it is satisfyingly deep. Just that 15 gave the cheap satisfaction of playing like rythm game songs on easy.

7 as a child never made me think. I literally just powered through everything with hp up materia and double cut/quadra cut.

On the other hand FFXIII really did have a few encounters through the story that actually did have me thinking a bit. Simply attacking wasn't enough, you had to debuff, buff and chain attacks. There is no comparison, FFXIII has a deeper combat system, despite me not actually liking the final game in the end.

 

[LordOcidax]

I counter this with try to beat any optional boss ever just mashing X. The hyperbole on both sides are absurd

That's what I'm trying to say....

 

[Renmyra]

If your level is high in Dark Souls.. you can kill low level enemies with just one Hit, that doesn't mean nothing. Try to defeat a weapon in FF7 with just summons... Good luck.

Mime KOTR is probably the most effective strategy in killing Weapons.

 

[Holundrian]

They have RPG mechanics. Most games are a mash up genres these days.

Yeah but it's really not comparable to something like Bloodborne, Nioh etc.
I mean I get the feeling I enjoy more action rpgs than shadowsoldier but even I would say that when for the longest times Tales(And I liked several Tales games a lot) was the first thing I thought of for ARPG it isn't the most amazing genre.

Within ARPGs if you're not into monster hunter style games it kind of feels like there is only the Souls variety currently which are at least pretty good quality wise so far.

7 as a child never made me think. I literally just powered through everything with hp up materia and double cut/quadra cut.

On the other hand FFXIII really did have a few encounters through the story that actually did have me thinking a bit. Simply attacking wasn't enough, you had to debuff, buff and chain attacks. There is no comparison, FFXIII has a deeper combat system, despite me not actually liking the final game in the end.

Well difference of experience I can only say XIII was a total braindead experience for me. I never had any time where I had to stop and actually think about what paradigms to switch to the flow of battle was so simple it just happened all very automatically for me.

 

[Nauren]

FFX-2 had the best battle system. I said it!

 

[MissDeviling]

Younger audience are never touched FF7.. that can be the only explanation.

Uh, no? FF7 was stupidly easy. You could absolutely get by most battles by simply attacking. Sometimes you'll throw a Heal or Mighty Guard up, but that's hardly what I'd call strategic. FF7's issue was that it gave you a vast amount of tools but no difficulty to really push your strategic limits. Ruby and Emerald Weapons were probably the only exception. This is coming from someone who played 7 on the highest speed on Active Mode, as there was no difficulty option.

 

[Mihos]

As for your first question, I should remind you that this a remake of one of the most popular (among BOTH hardcore and casual fans) JRPG of all time, so I think it's safe to say there is a pretty big audience for it.

Yes, so lets change everything about it. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Spehornoob]

I would prefer if the game remained turn-based, but was rebalanced to be more challenging and strategic.

I'm not against this action system, but I got bored of and turned off XV just a couple chapters in, so I hope I find the game overall more interesting than that.

 

[Lothar]

If your level is high in Dark Souls.. you can kill low level enemies with just one Hit, that doesn't mean nothing. Try to defeat a weapon in FF7 with just summons... Good luck.

FF7 is so easy it requires no thought. The same can't be said of Dark Souls.

The weapons in FF7 that are tough are just optional content. There's no need to ever beat them.

 

[Suburban Thug]

He should have said spam X to win and sometimes use a summon. Then it'd be correct. There was no strategy involved. Same goes for 6, 9, and 12.

I think you are wrong. I can't just spam X to win and I'd know since I'm playing through it currently for the first time ever. That's oversimplifying things to a hyperbolic degree. It took me a few tries to figure out how to beat Reno! You also have to manage your health, equipment, and magic power at all times. It's actually strategic.

 

[Kazuhira]

12 probably has the worst gameplay of any video game. It's debatable if it should even count as gameplay. You just want up to an enemy and you could put the controller down and your characters stab it over and over. The end. Great combat.

I'm sorry but this is bullshit,sounds like you watched 3 min of gameplay on youtube and reached that conclusion.

 

[Psychological Intellect]

Great news. Turn based rpgs are all trash.