Dark_castle
Junior Member
Why do I keep seeing Eiko being brought up as a example of a sexualized character?
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Final Fantasy XV Episode Duscae 2.0 coming in May | Trailer at E3, more at Gamescom
- Thread starter LuuKyK
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sensui-tomo
Member
It "can" be argued that she was pandering to a fanbase based on her clothing. And trust me, i'd rather not have this thread become "That" kind of discussion.
To let my point be known, I'm fine with cidney's outfit, just like i am with every rendition of shiva wearing nothing but a cape with bikini, or whatever... Its final fantasy, i'm used to the stuff by now. Wonder if they'll change the summon's damage or if its still meant as an insta-ko.
NoctisVsStar
Member
I give up when we start talking about gameplay, improvements, magic, parries, and what else can be done to ensure this game results to be fun and good I'll be back. See you guys at e3.
I'm personally excited for the demo updates! I can't wait to jump back in to Duscae. I've been addicted replaying the demo over and over again. The combat is just rewarding. I personally think the two biggest additions needed to the combat were attacks canceling into dodges and better lock-on. I'm glad these two points are being addressed.
On the topic of characters desing, It's funny seeing the designs of the main/important/marquee characters versus the background characters. The clothing and design of the background characters fall in line with the general mood of the environment around them, while the characters that were made to be important to the player tend to wear outfits that make nearly no thematic sense irrespective to their given environment.
Cindy/Cidney wears an outfit that does not fit a mechanic, but also; neither of the player's party members wear clothing that makes sense really. Games are very similar to movies by having people/characters of interest stand out. The most popular manner appears to be through evocative dress.
In terms of character sexualization, from a western point of view, Cindy matches many of the attributes of a sexualized female character (or one made to attract the male gaze). The interesting thought that occurred to me though is that the male main characters definitely don't fit the Western (especially American) ideal of a male power fantasy. Imo, the only one you could remotely argue in the case would be Gladiolus. The guys look like boy band members, who are often dressed and positioned to appeal to younger women (and teens), and these characters are the one's we see for the duration of the game.
I'm actually interested in the topic of character design and how cultural views on sexuality influences one's perception of a given character.
On the topic of characters desing, It's funny seeing the designs of the main/important/marquee characters versus the background characters. The clothing and design of the background characters fall in line with the general mood of the environment around them, while the characters that were made to be important to the player tend to wear outfits that make nearly no thematic sense irrespective to their given environment.
Cindy/Cidney wears an outfit that does not fit a mechanic, but also; neither of the player's party members wear clothing that makes sense really. Games are very similar to movies by having people/characters of interest stand out. The most popular manner appears to be through evocative dress.
In terms of character sexualization, from a western point of view, Cindy matches many of the attributes of a sexualized female character (or one made to attract the male gaze). The interesting thought that occurred to me though is that the male main characters definitely don't fit the Western (especially American) ideal of a male power fantasy. Imo, the only one you could remotely argue in the case would be Gladiolus. The guys look like boy band members, who are often dressed and positioned to appeal to younger women (and teens), and these characters are the one's we see for the duration of the game.
I'm actually interested in the topic of character design and how cultural views on sexuality influences one's perception of a given character.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The main character's outfits not fitting in actually make perfect sense since they are from a huge city where that fashion sense is commonplace. From a western view, it's pretty obvious that the west is fully supportive of female rights, better written less pandering female characters and less sexualized designs etc while Japan has been stagnating in that regard. I want better written and designed female characters as well, I don't need narrative justifications for why a character is wearing a ridiculously sexualized outfit.
WAT. Just an hour ago I told you we'll see more of Agni's Philosophy and now look what we got:
Agni's Philosophy (Luminous Engine Demo) is back on DirectX 12
Agni's Philosophy (Luminous Engine Demo) is back on DirectX 12
WATT. Just an hour ago I told you we'll see more of Agni's Philosophy and now look what we got:
Agni's Philosophy (Luminous Engine Demo) is back on DirectX 12
Hubba hubba.
SixMachine
Member
Those shoes don't look comfortable to run in since they are fancy boots/shoes. Normally I don't make comments on a characters footwear besides if they look nice but Noctis needs to get himself some Pumas because he needs help hauling ass. Xenoblade Chronicles X does it right, you can put Elma in heels but she runs fast enough to put Usain Bolt to shame.
sensui-tomo
Member
Why wear leather(and i dont mean leather armor) jackets/shirts when fighting goblins/behemoths and not.. well stiener's armor or stuff the magitech soldiers had?
The best answer: Its Final Fantasy (dont think much on it) Best way to solve it would be have outfits change depending on armor, because god is that my favorite niche thing in rpg games.
WAT. Just an hour ago I told you we'll see more of Agni's Philosophy and now look what we got:
Agni's Philosophy (Luminous Engine Demo) is back on DirectX 12
:O
That's really cool. Can't wait to watch it.
R10Neymarfan
Member
WAT. Just an hour ago I told you we'll see more of Agni's Philosophy and now look what we got:
Agni's Philosophy (Luminous Engine Demo) is back on DirectX 12
Could this hint towards FFXV PC with DX12?
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
i look forward to upgrading my GFX card to play that.
ActuallyHulk
Banned
I think he's saying they don't fit because if someone in jeans and an unbuttoned shirt gets smacked by a behemoth they're going to become a pancake. Same goes for the other 3.
Pretty much how I feel about her too. But I also hate the main party designs in this. So boring imo
I was under the impression that the devs said Cindey and her father move from place to place based on progression in the story, so the location in which we meet her in the demo might not be indicative of where she's actually from. We really don't know much about her character yet.
As for the style of dress based upon occupation/activity. I still think the player parties nor Cindy are dressed appropriately for what they are doing at the time.
The idea of high-fashion models, dressed in high-fashion, clothing fighting monsters for any reason is pretty absurd.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
!!!WAT. Just an hour ago I told you we'll see more of Agni's Philosophy and now look what we got:
Agni's Philosophy (Luminous Engine Demo) is back on DirectX 12
That would explain his derpy walk cycle.
I don't think they left the city with "we're gonna fight goblins and behemoths" in mind. Besides the boots the outfits don't seem too be too cumbersome when it comes to fighting, Noctis's pants are baggy Gladious has no sleeves etc, ignis's outfit seems a bit ridiculous in that regard but he's a mage, and Prompto is an idiot so he's just dressed like he came out of a hot topic and bumbles around the battlefield. Also this
Either way, all of their outfits make more sense than Cidney's. Would be good if they changed the outfits occasionally instead of spending what is likely gonna be months wearing the same shit.
WAT. Just an hour ago I told you we'll see more of Agni's Philosophy and now look what we got:
Agni's Philosophy (Luminous Engine Demo) is back on DirectX 12
Nice Koozek, you had us like:
ShadowSoldier89
Member
we have very different opinions on "improved"
WAT. Just an hour ago I told you we'll see more of Agni's Philosophy and now look what we got:
Agni's Philosophy (Luminous Engine Demo) is back on DirectX 12
They showed Lestallum at night... and it's beautiful.
I definitely see your point here. I'm mainly surprised to see a final fantasy that might be deliberately designing all of it's main cast as eye-candy (male and femle, though Cidney's is still an outlier).
Anyways, I'm wondering how armigar will be balanced out in the final game? It's so effective in the demo that the MP constraints almost don't matter.
Death Penalty
Member
Practicality cannot be a serious argument when one of the lead males thinks the best protection against the claws of monsters is his bare stomach. There are almost never practical designs in JRPGs let alone in Final Fantasy. Come on now.
For my take, I don't like Cindy's design. Not because it's sexual, not because it's impractical, but because I think it's ugly and ridiculous looking. I have this issue with most of the outfits to be frank; I vastly preferred the old clothing for Prompto and Ignis in particular.
I also really wish these threads weren't always choked with this same tired discussion. I mean, it's a HUGE deal in my eyes that they're adding in animation canceling and new combo attacks. If it's implemented even a little well this game's quality of combat is going to jump forward in leaps and bounds, and I desperately hope it can be fully distributed so I can try it out. Especially with Tabata talking up joint attacks as a means to expedite battles! They must be brutal and I loved the look of the Noctis/Ignis attacks in that prior battle demo.
For my take, I don't like Cindy's design. Not because it's sexual, not because it's impractical, but because I think it's ugly and ridiculous looking. I have this issue with most of the outfits to be frank; I vastly preferred the old clothing for Prompto and Ignis in particular.
I also really wish these threads weren't always choked with this same tired discussion. I mean, it's a HUGE deal in my eyes that they're adding in animation canceling and new combo attacks. If it's implemented even a little well this game's quality of combat is going to jump forward in leaps and bounds, and I desperately hope it can be fully distributed so I can try it out. Especially with Tabata talking up joint attacks as a means to expedite battles! They must be brutal and I loved the look of the Noctis/Ignis attacks in that prior battle demo.
Gamescom is coming up, seems like a good PC venue for that.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Well look at Quiet, Cidney, and that character from Star Ocean 5. A game with a cast like the one from Bloodborne games where even the "whore" wears more cloths than the three examples mentioned is more and more unlikely.
Obscene amounts of MP usage when activated most likely. And since they all seem to be wealthy people from the best families and the most advanced city, is why they're designed to look that way. Although the earlier designs looks much less so like that.
DirgeExtinction
Member
Is Cidney/Cindey really the first female Cid? I thought her father was still the staple Cid.
Also, I'm more interested in what she's like in terms of personality rather than what she's wearing. Outfits don't often, or ever, make a character great.
Also, I'm more interested in what she's like in terms of personality rather than what she's wearing. Outfits don't often, or ever, make a character great.
ActuallyHulk
Banned
She's not. She mentioned her father in the demo and he was verbally named Cid.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
When was he named? I remember her mentioning him but no names were given.
Death Penalty
Member
I believe this could be part of the reason she was localized as Cindy and not Cidney, because she is indeed not "the" Cid.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
yea, and cidney and SO5 girl look great, quiet is eh
DirgeExtinction
Member
I think Ignis says it when they're in the car, talking to Cidney.
DirgeExtinction
Member
On the subject of combat, I'm actually kind of curious why the devs didn't include some sort of attack charging modifier that increases the damage of your attack or modifies it's trajectory.
I'm also interested in Tabata's discussion on minimizing downtime during battles for MP regeneration. I was actually alittle confused on him mentioning joint/partner attacks because I was under the impression that those required MP?
In the case of the demo, depending on how you had your weapon loadout set, your main slashing weapon had an attribute to drain MP per hit. I was almost never in trouble of losing all of my MP as I would make sure to focus my attacks on using that particular weapon when I saw my MP starting to get low.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
How? Her outfit is just a checkerboard pattern. It's laughably bad. Especially with the huge breasts as well. Her with the awfully proportioned face of the childhood friend character and the sword art online rip off mae for a ridiculous bad looking cast.
It doesn't even look like an outfit, it looks like a flat texture. And there are plenty of valid criticisms of Cidney's outfit and why it's not a very good design just in this very thread.
Oh ok.
Death Penalty
Member
We actually aren't entirely sure how joint attacks like that work yet. Tabata has mentioned filling the correct conditions and seeking your party out on the battlefield, but not how they'll be gated. His assertions either seem to indicate that they are independent of MP (as magic is) or that they'll vanquish enemies quickly enough that they are worthwhile investments and battle times are shortened.
She calls him Pawpaw, which is a very southern/redneckish term for grandpa.
She also calls him grandpa in Japanese.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Oh god, I'm not a fan of Cidney's current design (I like the fanart jumpsuit), but she's leagues better than.... that. That's beyond "sexualized". That's just stupidly impractical for any situation, intimate or utilitarian.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Most definitely.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
because its ridiculous, fun, and unique
Death Penalty
Member
I'm actually originally from deep Arkansas and this isn't as much of a thing as people think it is. I'd never heard of it being used to mean anything but father before this whole Cindy thing, and I hail from a very rural area. Still confuses me, but the Japanese isn't likely to be lying.
Yeah I know it's not hugely common but it exists. That's what I called one of my grandfathers and I'm not even from a rural area
sensui-tomo
Member
drill girl above looks leagues worse than the SO4 characters, both of the sexualized characters from that game... then again the creator wants to make eroge so i'd just let him at this point, at least it'd be on a market which the game is clearly catered to and stays on pc.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
There's nothing unique about a character design that's been done a thousand times before, big breasted witches are not unique. And that hairstyle as well is something that's been done a bunch of time in anime and games. It's just a cobbled together mess.
sensui-tomo
Member
ShadowSoldier89
Member
if you boil it down that far sure, but thats ignoring the entire checkerboard and the way that its implemented that you pointed out in your last post but ignored this time. its a fun design, I really like it
Hades Hotgun
Banned
I absolutely hate Cindey's design both in terms of the aesthetics and the flagrant pandering, but the thing that has me most disappointed in the game is the lack of really kick ass female characters that I associate with some of the stronger entries in the series.
Faris, Celes, Beatrix, and Freya are among my favorite characters in the series and I would love to see more female characters like them in general, even outside of Final Fantasy.
Tabata seeing an objection to Cindey's presentation (design and camera) and a desire to have a female party member as a contradiction is pretty embarrassingly sexist. I hope that his confidence in the game's presentation of women is built on what only he and the devs know about the game as opposed to what has been shown so far.
That all being said, and I hope that it keeps being said frequently and openly rather than being quarantined in a separate topic, the demo did impress me enough to be enjoyable despite any misgivings that I may have about the gender politics of the developers.
Noctis' voice never bothered me but my wife pointed out that she felt it was odd to hear such a voice from a character who looked so young. And while both of us struggled early on to really get the battle system, in time it became fairly easy to handle aside from the obvious camera issues and general bugs.
My hopes for the game remain high, but I am still more interested in the world that we have seen teased in Agni's Philosophy and I would be willing to throw some money down on a new entry in the series based on that world and aesthetic.
Faris, Celes, Beatrix, and Freya are among my favorite characters in the series and I would love to see more female characters like them in general, even outside of Final Fantasy.
Tabata seeing an objection to Cindey's presentation (design and camera) and a desire to have a female party member as a contradiction is pretty embarrassingly sexist. I hope that his confidence in the game's presentation of women is built on what only he and the devs know about the game as opposed to what has been shown so far.
That all being said, and I hope that it keeps being said frequently and openly rather than being quarantined in a separate topic, the demo did impress me enough to be enjoyable despite any misgivings that I may have about the gender politics of the developers.
Noctis' voice never bothered me but my wife pointed out that she felt it was odd to hear such a voice from a character who looked so young. And while both of us struggled early on to really get the battle system, in time it became fairly easy to handle aside from the obvious camera issues and general bugs.
My hopes for the game remain high, but I am still more interested in the world that we have seen teased in Agni's Philosophy and I would be willing to throw some money down on a new entry in the series based on that world and aesthetic.
It is not embarassingly sexist. Stop twisting his words to your convenience.