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[2dshmuplover]

I hope I never have to post on the official Forza boards to talk Forza.

That MOD Big Worm is kinda crazy. He is saying people shouldn't complain about the new wheels not having a clutch because it's just pixles on a screen.

Yep, the official forums are really disappointing, the mods are very sensitive. No matter how constructive your criticism might be your posts will get moderated, because I've been critical of some issues on Horizon in the past every post of mine is now approved before posting by mods and it pisses me off as all my complaints were legit and I was polite in raising the issues. There's a lot of people on that forum who just want to pretend everything is perfect.

 

[sneaky77]

If its the official forum, then I guess that is Turn10's decision to run them that way

 

[2dshmuplover]

no.

fuck no. i have no idea why someone would bother playing a game like forza (of GT for that matter) with a pad. its an entirely different feeling. different learning curve. more exciting. more accurate and true to life. more fun, plain and simple.

though i will add, i'm able to get better lap times with the pad - BUT STILL. never going back.

GT I would agree but not Forza, T10 have always done an outstanding job at making the game competitively playable on a controller. I'm as happy playing FM4 with my Fanatec GT2 as I am a controller, depends what mood I'm in, if I just wanna kick bad then it's controller all the way you get a nice sense of freedom with it.

 

[Mascot]

I know it's blasphemous but aren't you guys willing to try out the new controller first to see how viable it is vs a wheel?

Zero immersion with a pad.

Zero.

 

[eso76]

Oh, looky here

Evidence of a new track in a year old message on fm.net forums ?

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/5342162.aspx

posted on 4 / 7 / 2012

Those who know me know I've started to focus my sim racing passions on iRacing. One of the things I really like about iRacing is the fact that they laser scan their tracks. iRacers are a pretty passionate group and one of the members saw a scanning crew at Lime Rock Park last week. iRacing is due to re-scan that track since it has been resurfaced and reconfigured so he figured it was an iRacing crew. iRacing chimed in that it wasn't them (they disclose this stuff they aren't tied behind NDAs). So one of the guys 4 minutes from the track went over there and asked the crew who they were.

They said they were working on a title for Microsoft for the Xbox. This means one of two things.

Either the XBox is getting a hardcore sim even more hardcore than Forza. Which I sincerely doubt. Or Turn 10 is working on their next title. I don't think this would be for FM4. Scanning and producing a track takes a lot of time. The other reason this makes sense for Turn 10 is their ALMS partnership. Lime Rock is an ALMS track. Could this mean the addition of Lime Rock and Mid Ohio for the next title? Perhaps Baltimore? Mosport? Laser scanning? The nice thing about laser scans is the data can be used repeatedly as new titles are released. The scan data holds long term value to them. If they're laser scanning tracks for FM5 that would be freaking epic. Some of the tracks that iRacing and Forza both share feel so much different on iRacing than on Forza. Road Atlanta in particular.

I'd kinda feel sorry if we ended up discovering all the tracks before T10 announces them.

Then again, this is what happens if T10 doesn't hurry up and start doing it


In a way though, didn't we kind of ask for this ourselves ?
I think i remember being rather disappointed at the fact we basically knew everything there was to know about FM4 several months before release; and had been waiting for surprises which never came. I think it's the community themselves that actually suggested T10 to unleash the news closer to launch.

The difference here, is that T10 is supposed to sell me a 500$ console i need to preorder in the next couple weeks.
I trust them, but i need a little encouragement

 

[saladine1]

Just the thought of using a wheel without H shifter and clutch is making me sick to my stomach.
I mean, using paddle shifts to drive my Hakosuka Skyline just doesn't sit well with me.

I need to avoid granny shifting so as to double clutch like I should..



Nice find!
So, Turn 10 seem to be pretty serious about tracks this time. Very promising indeed..

 

[amar212]

was the info in the fm.net madcatz wheel thread posted here?

Didn't realized it has 2 additional pedals in the wheel. But since its mapping the triggers, it will be useful just for navigation right?

I updated photos and info in the NextGen wheel thread, thank you for this.

Regarding additonal paddles, they wil probably be used for either mapping of left-right views, or maybe even clutch?

I still believe FM5 will have clutch as an option on the controllers, but manufacturers probably decided to leave it as a pedal+shifter from the wheels because it would just make them much more expensive and complex for the packaging and more space-demanding on shelves.

We will see, but I expect that clutch-yes setup will be coming at some point.

In the other thread, Amar has an estimate of $250. Not sure if that's legit or not. I haven't seen anything myself.

I can't find a link now for nothing, but someone (Three60? Help?) asked MadCatz about it and it was either part of some video or some Tweet. Any help to verify this info is welcomed.

forza is really great with a pad, and lol youre acting like forza and gt are hardcore simulators

Forza can be hard-core simulator while driving, no arguing about it.

Simulation mode, 900-wheel and no assist are prerequisites. You will not be the fastest person in the universe, but the feel of tyres - as long they are stock tyres - is unprecedented on the consoles. It especially shines in B and A class of vehicles and older vehicles from E and D class (S class and especialy road-vehicles in the R class can be problematic, especially Koenigseggs - they are just over-sppining, probably due to some strange default-suspension modelling).

Simulation mode ask for a totally different approach to driving the Standard and despite it was promoted as not viable for the wheels, I personally find it amazingly accurate. Learning curve of driving NSX on Suzuka for the Rivals Senna Challenge in Simulation steering with 900-wheel (I use CSRE) has to be one of the finest moments FM4 can produce.

Only problem remains the fact how XID-nature of Xinput standard can't cope with tension of the wheel-sping during countersteer, so the sensaton can be ruined once the grip on wheel is lost due to inability of FFB to "reverb" the tension. But that aside, Forza 4 driving is probably the best actual seonsation of driving a virtual vehicle over some surface you can have on this generation of consoles and even in broader context IMO.

 

[Mascot]

This whole Xbone steering wheel fiasco would be funny if it wasn't so fucking sad.

What a complete backwards step, and all in the interests of screwing as much money as possible out of their most dedicated fan base. Microsoft truly do not give shit number one for their consumers.

 

[eso76]

This whole Xbone steering wheel fiasco would be funny if it wasn't so fucking sad.

What a complete backwards step, and all in the interests of screwing as much money as possible out of their most dedicated fan base. Microsoft truly do not give shit number one for their consumers.

i'm even surprised they are 900° tbh.

No way i'm buying a wheel with no clutch or h shifter after racing on Fujimi Kaido with a PWTS.
Actually, no way i'm buying any wheel with my fanatec sitting there being useless, but you get the point.

 

[Shaneus]

I'd kinda feel sorry if we ended up discovering all the tracks before T10 announces them.

Maybe we already have

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Nice write up amar, pretty much agree with everything there.

Unlike the a lot of other console games the low classes are full of character and a lot of fun to drive, they make the rigid rockets of the race classes feel dull and samey in comparison.

Forza wasn't immediately impressive with a wheel imo, especially compared to PC stuff but one day I was lapping around the TGTT testing some firmware and it hit me how natural everything felt and for all the whining I did about an overly smooth surface I could feel it now clear as day, even if visually it wasn't well represented.

 

[eso76]

Maybe we already have

if all rumors turn out to be correct that makes 8 new circuits.so far

Bathurst
Long Beach
Monza
Pacific Raceways
Park Rock
Spa
Yas Marina
Prague

If that was all, it would still be a semi reasonable amount of new content, considering we only got 5 or 6 for FM4

Bernese Alps
Hockenheim
Indianapolis
Infineon
Road America (it wasn't in fm3 right ?)
Top Gear Test Track

Then Again, i think we got 10 new tracks for FM3 including the long ones.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Road America was in Forza 3, I'm pretty sure it was DLC from Forza 2.

 

[eso76]

Road America was in Forza 3, I'm pretty sure it was DLC from Forza 2.

you're right, for some reason the fact FM4 version was unveiled during an ALMS race made me think it was a new track.

So, FM4 only had 5 new tracks.
And 5 were removed

 

[saladine1]

I haven't touched a racing game in a while. Trying to steer clear in anticipation of upcoming titles.
However, the urge to put on PGR4 was overwhelming.

Picked the Radical SR9 and chose the Brooklyn Bridge Strait in stormy weather.

Man o man...the sound of the engine screaming at 9000 rpms. The turbo spool and flutter. The heavenly straight cut gear whine. The backfire and overrun. The rain. The thunder. The lightning............aaaahhhhh....aaanndd I'm spent...

I'm dying to hear some modified cars in Forza. I'm like a crack addict over here..

 

[Mascot]

Road America is one of my favourite tracks. I love it.

 

[derFeef]

Road America is one of my favourite tracks. I love it.

Yes!

 

[Megasoum]

Road America is one of my favourite tracks. I love it.

I prefer the other "Road A." personally. It's criminally underused outside of Forza tough.

 

[G Rom]

Great find about the other laser scanned track. That's a lot of evidences toward lots of real world tracks being added which is great news.
Could they be attempting to get all ALMS tracks in ? Even though the partenership was started during its development, FM4 had almost all the ALMS cars already (models not liveries obviously) so it wouldn't be surprising if they were trying to leverage their licence even more in FM5.

 

[soundscream]

I haven't touched a racing game in a while. Trying to steer clear in anticipation of upcoming titles.
However, the urge to put on PGR4 was overwhelming.

Picked the Radical SR9 and chose the Brooklyn Bridge Strait in stormy weather.

Man o man...the sound of the engine screaming at 9000 rpms. The turbo spool and flutter. The heavenly straight cut gear whine. The backfire and overrun. The rain. The thunder. The lightning............aaaahhhhh....aaanndd I'm spent...

I'm dying to hear some modified cars in Forza. I'm like a crack addict over here..

I like you.

 

[eso76]

Great find about the other laser scanned track. That's a lot of evidences toward lots of real world tracks being added which is great news.
Could they be attempting to get all ALMS tracks in ? Even though the partenership was started during its development, FM4 had almost all the ALMS cars already (models not liveries obviously) so it wouldn't be surprising if they were trying to leverage their licence even more in FM5.

I was thinking yeah right, fat chance

but current ALMS track list is:

Laguna Seca
Road America
Road Atlanta
Sebring
Lime Rock
Long Beach
Canadian Tire Motorsport Park
Baltimore Street Circuit
Virginia International Raceway

not that many to go, if rumors are true

 

[SarBear]

All right, Im pre ordering the LCE today. I tried to hold off.

 

[p3tran]

the rumors are true. how could they not be, when we have not one but two confirmations -not from gaming press, but from people on the actual two tracks that indeed scanning was done in microsoft's behalf. both the monza video and the lime park dude.

So it was undoubtedly microsoft scanning all those tracks, but not for turn10 or forza.
yes, you guessed it, its for

Spoiler

kinect motorsports ;ppPpp

 

[op_ivy]

I can't find a link now for nothing, but someone (Three60? Help?) asked MadCatz about it and it was either part of some video or some Tweet. Any help to verify this info is welcomed.
.

i found it last night here

 

[AlanzTalon]

This whole Xbone steering wheel fiasco would be funny if it wasn't so fucking sad.

What a complete backwards step, and all in the interests of screwing as much money as possible out of their most dedicated fan base. Microsoft truly do not give shit number one for their consumers.

Maybe the reality is more that the new thing uses an entirely different communication protocol than the current Xbox, because they came up with a better way. so wireless wheel communication does require new hardware/software. Which is why they had to develop new wheels.

And the madcatz wheel seems pretty damn decent and is being built for a machine that is still 12 weeks from consumer availability. So maybe the tone of "they are doing it to fuck over the same people they want as fans" can be tempered a bit.

I am sure the same people who are passionate enough to build a racing wheel want the best one possible that they can still actually sell. And a clutch pedal / H shifter didn't satisfy the cost to sales graph for a smaller install base. It is incredibly niche for any wheel, much less a high end one.

If they can make wheels from a previous generation work via some dongle that translates the old language to this all new controller protocol and make enough of these dongle things to not lose their shirts on developing a thing that only a few thousand people may buy, I am sure they are working on it.

It is not even September. Everyone just take a breath.

 

[brotkasten]

Maybe the reality is more that the new thing uses an entirely different communication protocol than the current Xbox, because they came up with a better way. so wireless wheel communication does require new hardware/software. Which is why they had to develop new wheels.

And the madcatz wheel seems pretty damn decent and is being built for a machine that is still 12 weeks from consumer availability. So maybe the tone of "they are doing it to fuck over the same people they want as fans" can be tempered a bit.

I am sure the same people who are passionate enough to build a racing wheel want the best one possible that they can still actually sell. And a clutch pedal / H shifter didn't satisfy the cost to sales graph for a smaller install base. It is incredibly niche for any wheel, much less a high end one.

If they can make wheels from a previous generation work via some dongle that translates the old language to this all new controller protocol and make enough of these dongle things to not lose their shirts on developing a thing that only a few thousand people may buy, I am sure they are working on it.

It is not even September. Everyone just take a breath.

That might be all true for the wireless version, but do you know what would be really killer? If they'd simply use the HID protocol, like the competition. That way, the dedicated fan base could use their old $400+ Fanatec rig and new sim racers, who might have interest in the console or the franchise, could use their Logitech and Thrustmasters and whatnot. All that, because MS wouldn't use a proprietary protocol. How awesome would that be?

 

[Dural]

Have they given a reason for using xid over hid or why 360 usb wheels and arcade sticks won't work with XB1? It's honestly one of the biggest reasons why I might not go with the XB1, a real slap in the face to their fanbase.

 

[sneaky77]

Maybe the reality is more that the new thing uses an entirely different communication protocol than the current Xbox, because they came up with a better way. so wireless wheel communication does require new hardware/software. Which is why they had to develop new wheels.
.

I am ok with the wireless not working, that's different protocol, but the usb?

 

[amar212]

All that, because MS wouldn't use a proprietary protocol. How awesome would that be?

Have they given a reason for using xid over hid or why 360 usb wheels and arcade sticks won't work with XB1? It's honestly one of the biggest reasons why I might not go with the XB1, a real slap in the face to their fanbase.

We've been through that million of times.

Xinput is there to stay, it is created and controlled and licensed by MS and there is no other way.

They are earning profit from royalties and they are keeping their wireless-encoded protocol intact and fully proofed.

Business decision 101.

 

[Klocker]

I was thinking yeah right, fat chance

but current ALMS track list is:

Laguna Seca
Road America
Road Atlanta
Sebring
Lime Rock
Long Beach
Canadian Tire Motorsport Park
Baltimore Street Circuit
Virginia International Raceway

not that many to go, if rumors are true

Oh he'll yea. I was thinking the same thing when I saw Lime Rock

 

[BADNED]

...

but current ALMS track list is:

Laguna Seca
Road America
Road Atlanta
Sebring
Lime Rock
Long Beach
Canadian Tire Motorsport Park
Baltimore Street Circuit
Virginia International Raceway

...

You forgot Circuit of The Americas.

 

[p3tran]

You forgot Circuit of The Americas.

lol

forza gonna be good 8)

 

[Big Takeover]

Now I'm starting to wonder if any of these end up in the back pocket for some rainy day DLC. Whatever the case, I don't think you can understate how this huge reinvestment in tracks is the biggest change to FM they could have made. Really, really impressed.

 

[derFeef]

I'll wait for official news before I get excited...
It may still be "Track DLC 1"

 

[saladine1]

There's no question tracks will be held back for DLC.
I don't mind that at all though...

Speaking of tracks, I would love to see at least 1 rally stage or something. Perhaps a classic group B tribute of sorts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HjXXUyQhPE

GT4's Grand Canyon spectators crowding along the track, jumping out and taking pictures within an earshot of death by collision used to put a big smile on my face.

 

[amar212]

You forgot Circuit of The Americas.

You really want to make me purchase a whole damn console just to play one game, don't you?

Okay, bet taken. Solve the wheel support for Fanatecs and I will jump in.

 

[ElNino]

I was thinking yeah right, fat chance

but current ALMS track list is:

Laguna Seca
Road America
Road Atlanta
Sebring
Lime Rock
Long Beach
Canadian Tire Motorsport Park
Baltimore Street Circuit
Virginia International Raceway

not that many to go, if rumors are true

Mosport would be cool considering it is less than 30 minutes from my house, and I've gone to the go kart track there several times. I think there were some big changes at the track for this season so if they were to include it I hope they got the updated configuration.

 

[Mascot]

Maybe the reality is more that the new thing uses an entirely different communication protocol than the current Xbox, because they came up with a better way. so wireless wheel communication does require new hardware/software. Which is why they had to develop new wheels.

And the madcatz wheel seems pretty damn decent and is being built for a machine that is still 12 weeks from consumer availability. So maybe the tone of "they are doing it to fuck over the same people they want as fans" can be tempered a bit.

I am sure the same people who are passionate enough to build a racing wheel want the best one possible that they can still actually sell. And a clutch pedal / H shifter didn't satisfy the cost to sales graph for a smaller install base. It is incredibly niche for any wheel, much less a high end one.

If they can make wheels from a previous generation work via some dongle that translates the old language to this all new controller protocol and make enough of these dongle things to not lose their shirts on developing a thing that only a few thousand people may buy, I am sure they are working on it.

It is not even September. Everyone just take a breath.

Oh man, I'd LOVE to be proved wrong. Your optimism is commendable.

 

[p3tran]

forza 4 monthly rivals, challenge #8, nurGP on a stock '11 wisemann.

lets do some asynchronous racing until badned and helios show us the new videos!

 

[SarBear]

forza 4 monthly rivals, challenge #8, nurGP on a stock '11 wisemann.

lets do some asynchronous racing until badned and helios show us the new videos!

That was an amazing challenge.

 

[eso76]

You forgot Circuit of The Americas.

Guys, don't take everything badned says as a hint !
he just commented that COTA is an ALMS track.

man, badned must really pay attention to what he says these days
"info will drop soon"
"omg he said drop ! Drop as in rain ! Weather confirmed!"

etc

(inclined to believe it's indeed a hint )

what I don't understand is, why so little emphasis on tracks and tracks' authenticity in pr talks
Last interview i heard with Dan he mentioned 4 aspects that push the series farther in fm5 and tracks or laser scanning were not among them

 

[G Rom]

They still haven't revealed anything about the amount of ALMS presence in FM5 so there's plenty of time to make announcement like these. The next ALMS round is this week-end actually which is the same week-end as the PAX, maybe we'll see something ?
I mean it's a given that ALMS should get a big reveal on its own seeing how important the partnership is with multiple tie-in and all.

I suppose we'll the Rush cars when it'll be out in theatres, would seem logical as well. Hopefully we'll get a direct-feed video for these. Wiswell + F1 engine...

 

[Xanadu]

good vid here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnMIq6LTvJA

 

[Bobnob]

good vid here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnMIq6LTvJA

Yeah Alan from VVV does some good vids, not sure what he learnt by turning assists on though.Game looks good.

 

[p3tran]

good vid here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnMIq6LTvJA

pro tip: when you've got a one lap race, and you want to get a good feel and push the physics, just turn the car around and go! 8)

prague is old physics, exactly like E3.

very nice video! seeing Alan on the bumps without traction control, it now makes more sense that drivatar direct feed video from E3, where the AI cars would go and make accidents in those parts of the track.

 

[SatansReverence]

Only problem remains the fact how XID-nature of Xinput standard can't cope with tension of the wheel-sping during countersteer, so the sensaton can be ruined once the grip on wheel is lost due to inability of FFB to "reverb" the tension. But that aside, Forza 4 driving is probably the best actual seonsation of driving a virtual vehicle over some surface you can have on this generation of consoles and even in broader context IMO.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

In Forza, during countersteer you get the same self alinging torque as you would get in real life. The wheel will try to find it's way to go in what ever direction is straight for the wheels. This is why experienced drivers find countersteering a rather trivial occurrence in real life because it's quite easy to feel where the wheel needs to be to counter the slide.

Or, perhaps you're referring to the wheel going light during understeer which, as I explained earlier, is something that happens in real life.

 

[shandy706]

I'm looking forward to painting chrome on some cars. I'm thinking we could create some interesting effects with lots of layers where there is a lot of sunlight on a track.

 

[Xanadu]

I'm looking forward to painting chrome on some cars. I'm thinking we could create some interesting effects with lots of layers where there is a lot of sunlight on a track.

i wonder if we can paint over plastic parts now too

 

[twobear]

I feel like Turn 10 should have put out like a Forza 5: Prologue for Xbone launch and spent another year or so cooking this one.

 

[Xanadu]

I feel like Turn 10 should have put out like a Forza 5: Prologue for Xbone launch and spent another year or so cooking this one.

or pgr5 instead lol, i do agree they need more time but i guess forza 6 will be what forza 5 should have been in terms of features