blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Essentially now , a console is a budget PC,
As seen with the Xbox one it's no budget PC it's near $1000 PC setup with pad for $499.
Essentially now , a console is a budget PC,
We do not have the same software stack and Windows, macOS, or iOS, but newer CPU's being able to run code compiled for older ISA's directly as code designed for armv7 can run on Apple's fully custom third generation arm64 core (and GPU's can be extended to improve compatibility with the previous model... like they did with the version of Polaris they used in PS4 Pro) makes the benefits of allowing companies and players to carry software over (as well as making initiatives like PSNow cheaper to run and maintain) outweigh the costs.
About that and if I'm understanding this correctly, BSD seems to have worked out fine for them, I could see them sticking with it.
Wouldn't it be easier then to work out BC and assuming their toolset doesn't change drastically.
Not knowledgeable with the inner workings of CPU/GPU architectures, from a simple point of view one would think that a newer CPU would be able to emulate the older one natively and with enhancements.
About that and if I'm understanding this correctly, BSD seems to have worked out fine for them, I could see them sticking with it.
Wouldn't it be easier then to work out BC and assuming their toolset doesn't change drastically.
Not knowledgeable with the inner workings of CPU/GPU architectures, from a simple point of view one would think that a newer CPU would be able to emulate the older one natively and with enhancements.
So what amount of RAM are the new consoles going to have? If we look at the last couple of generational upgrades we usually get something around 12-16 times as much RAM. That would be about 96-128GB of RAM in 2020, which just seems absolutely ridiculous.
Although to be fair, the same thing was said when PS4 was rumoured to have 8GB, I do remember people dismissing it entirely. Anyone have the GAF thread?
I think Sony is going to look at 2 banks of ram. 16 sounds extremely safe estimate, since xox has 12. I think we'll 20+, aleast 16 dedicated to the gpu.Even 32GB seems far too extreme for a console released around 2020, particularly when people are still hoping for $399 consoles. It would no doubt be useful but it seems unlikely to me, anything higher is completely pie in the sky. I guess 16 - 24GB is more realistic.
Pretty much what I had in mind, maturing their tools as it will be the basis for them moving forward in regards to BC but also streamlining game development, familiar tools but with more capability.but sticking with an evolved version of the same OS, evolving the graphics libraries and key drivers while allowing some legacy mode ”bloat" should help Somy get early PS5 software prototypes going quicker and be the basis they need to deliver BC efficiently.
AMD will follow up its current-generation "Zen" architecture with the 7nm "Zen 2" and "Zen 3" CPU architectures that combine smarter design with process technology advances and are expected to enable significant performance and performance-per-watt gains.
In addition to adopting advanced transistor nodes, AMD will use a combination of on-chip integration, software, and system design engineering innovations to continue to create smarter, more efficient architecture designs to achieve improved performance and energy efficiency into the future.
Starting with new 2017 product introductions, future AMD products are also planned to harness the power of breakthrough AMD Infinity Fabric technology to efficiently create highly-scalable SoCs and platforms that meet the growing demand for high-performance compute and graphics technologies.
Advanced visualization – Delivering up to an average of 42 percent more performance than the Titan Xp on select professional applications2, the Frontier Edition provides the performance required to drive increasingly large and complex models for real-time visualization, physically-based rendering, and virtual reality (VR) through the design and rendering phase of product development.
Revolutionized game design workflows – Radeon Vega Frontier Edition simplifies and accelerates game creation by providing a single GPU optimized for every stage of a game developer's workflow, from asset production to playtesting and performance optimization.
Ryzen™ Mobile APUs (codenamed "Raven Ridge") integrate a 4-core, 8-thread "Zen"-based CPU and high-performance "Vega" graphics to deliver an expected 50 percent increase in CPU performance and over 40 percent better graphics performance, at half the power of its previous generation. Launching in the second half of 2017, Ryzen Mobile APUs are designed for premium 2-in-1s, ultraportables, and gaming form factors.
Sony continuing the generational model rather than going iterative might be just what it takes to push me to Microsoft. Really disappointed to hear this
with all pc equivalent power house consoles ... we really need a laptop equivalent portable console
Sony continuing the generational model rather than going iterative might be just what it takes to push me to Microsoft. Really disappointed to hear this
Sony continuing the generational model rather than going iterative might be just what it takes to push me to Microsoft. Really disappointed to hear this
Do you expect no clean break next-gen from Xbox?
It'll certainly be interesting if next gen the Xbox baseline is xb1x and not a new console. How will devs juggle that power disparity when PS5's baseline is 6 or 7 years advanced from that on the cpu side, for example?
I honestly don't expect MS to keep supporting current hardware in a forward compatible way. I think there'll be a clean break there too, and the next gen of Xbox software will also build upon a new box as its foundation. MS has been increasingly clear about XB1X being a Xbox One, and I think that'll be the extent of it.
Yup. I cant see MS continuing to use XBO S as the base line in 15 years. Hell, they are already shifting away from the 2013 models. Both MS and Sony. Sony just didnt do a cpu upclock for their Slim like MS did.
Already MS arent using the ram setup from 2013. No more esram for XBO X. When the XBO S gets phased out, the XBO X will be the new baseline.
Cant get more iterative than PC builds. And looking at PC games, the minimum requirement goes up almost from first game to sequel.
MS didn't touch the CPU for the S, only the GPU.
MS didn't touch the CPU for the S, only the GPU.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/console-specs-compared-xbox-one-x-ps4-pro-switch-a/1100-6443665/
It's fucking sad that TWICE now Sony didn't do jack shit about the CPU.
First they downclocked it lower than XB1S from 2.0Ghz base, then with PS4P they settled for a tiny overclock at 130Mhz.
They are a hardware company even that used to make and sell laptops for years, yet they look completely incompetent when it matters.
What would have to give? I don't get what you mean.
Even with 10-20 years from now UWP or whatever replaced it is completely different we wouldn't see another DOS -> Windows Vista (was that the one that broke DOS?) because each game is wrapped into it's own OS in the virtualized package, unlike PC games that are highly reliant on current apis and packages the user has installed.
But who says a game demanding more power invalidates the non generational hardware? You can make a game targeting only the higher end subset of the platform and there's nothing wrong with that, just like when Crytek decided to make Crysis focusing on higher ends cards.
But there will be still developers who will try to cater to as many as possible users, or even because their game isn't demanding and the platform allows that.
10-20 years from now there will be still (hopefully) be indie games that are not very demanding, retro games etc. Even if the AAA moves forward to the high end portion after the transaction period why not use the extra base if the device is capable of running your game?
Thank you Sony.
I just hope they go a bit mental with the hardware next time. This generation is lame.
yup, can't wait for $600 hardware again.
PS5 will become the new base for AAA games meaning the PS4/X1 won't be the base no more. The reason why PS4 Pro and One X looks better than their counterparts, but not an a huge leap since it's still being hold back by the PS4/X1.I mean they can call it what they want, but if it is largely the same architecture and the games are backwards compatible what is the effective difference?
They can go all out at launch with 2 SKU's and still benefit down the line from 5nm.
The sooner they drop a Pro version the higher the chances of adaptation, it would be a smart move.
Let's say they would be selling the base model at a loss they could off-set it with the Pro.
Those enthusiast would probably appreciate it also, hell I know I'd be all over the Pro model.
Don't think this has ever been done before, would be interesting if such a thing became reality.
For the funsies (this was an error that caused everything to be listed twice, yet PS5 has no place on that list).
https://i.redd.it/8astj21zksoy.png
How long might it be before we could have consoles that do accelerated ray tracing (or at least hybrid raster / RT, like what Imagination has been working on with their PowerVR Wizard GPUs?
PowerVR ray tracing with Unreal Engine 4
Pretty much what I had in mind, maturing their tools as it will be the basis for them moving forward in regards to BC but also streamlining game development, familiar tools but with more capability.
Too much PR but there's something to it as we look towards Navi
The next version of this most likely for PS5, what the APU itself brings is interesting.
The reason PS4 Pro can exist is due to die shrinks. Not possible to launch both PS5 and PS5 Pro at the same time.
Maybe you're thinking about Navi 10 25TF and same here about mobile parts but we're out of luck I think.I may be getting this mixed up with something else though as my memory is shit. Need to upgrade :I
I hope they don't go for mobile parts.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/console-specs-compared-xbox-one-x-ps4-pro-switch-a/1100-6443665/
It's fucking sad that TWICE now Sony got outdone in the CPU department by Microsoft, makes you wonder if they know what they are doing.
First they downclocked it lower than XB1S from 2.0Ghz base, then with PS4P they settled for a tiny overclock at 130Mhz.
They are a hardware company even that used to make and sell laptops for years, yet they look completely incompetent when it matters.
IIRC power draw difference isn't that big either between the two, right or only in certain circumstances.
We have those or they are on their way, nVidia got their MQ line of GPU's, AMD got APU's consisting of Ryzen/Vega.
Everything is becoming more compact (thank god cuz those bulky gamer laptops are ugly as fuck) and closer to desktop in terms of performance.
- Finally, according to the article you posted, they have not only different types of RAM, but PS4 also has more of it, which again generates more heat.
That's not what you asked in your post now is it?But at console prices ?
At 7nm we can get more than ps4 performance at a mobile power budget ...
The reason PS4 Pro can exist is due to die shrinks. Not possible to launch both PS5 and PS5 Pro at the same time.
Of course it's possible. It would just be really expensive. $600-700.
That doesn't explain how XBOX has more memory, similar to PS4 Slim in form factor, faster UHD drive (I believe), more connections (they hold heat even when not used), a larger HDD (also probably generates more heat).It would've been based on the system requirements for heat dissipation. Bearing in mind that:
You can't just compare the clock rates as a closed loop and that's it job done.
It would've been based on the system requirements for heat dissipation. Bearing in mind that:
- PS4 has a different GPU which potentially generates more heat.
- PS4 has a built in power pack, which definitely generates more heat.
- PS4 has a smaller form factor.
- Finally, according to the article you posted, they have not only different types of RAM, but PS4 also has more of it, which again generates more heat.
Also, PS4 software is not running in a virtualised environment while Xbox One software is. Not a huge tax, but a performance tax nonetheless (which has some benefits though).
Forgot their roadmap got updated, Navi is at the end of 2018 and will carry AMD through 2019, 2020 is a new GPU architecture.
GPU/CPU isn't a big problem as the memory situation at hand...
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This roadmap purposefully avoid saying when any of these will actually come to market. Navi may be 2018 or 2019 or 2020 even with "next gen" launching in Dec 2020.
Do you expect no clean break next-gen from Xbox?
It'll certainly be interesting if next gen the Xbox baseline is xb1x and not a new console. How will devs juggle that power disparity when PS5's baseline is 6 or 7 years advanced from that on the cpu side, for example?
I honestly don't expect MS to keep supporting current hardware in a forward compatible way. I think there'll be a clean break there too, and the next gen of Xbox software will also build upon a new box as its foundation. MS has been increasingly clear about XB1X being a Xbox One, and I think that'll be the extent of it.
so, does this mean that the PS5 will NOT run PS4/PS4 PRO Games?
This would be beyond stupid. Especially if the next Xbox, which will be about the same power as PS5, will play all Xbox One and Xbox One X games. (+ a lot of Xbox 360 and OG Xbox games).
Launch a $499 pro model with the standard $399 model, problem solved.Won't sell as well as PS4 at launch. Half gen shit make a lot customers sit on the sideline wait for PS5 Pro.
And either way it's a win for Sony.Won't sell as well as PS4 at launch. Half gen shit make a lot customers sit on the sideline wait for PS5 Pro.
Certainly, some games could, just like some ps4 games can run on ps3. But what happens when you design a game for ps5 to run at 1080p/30? You cant expect a port with 720p/15fps (or something like that) to be acceptable on ps4. I mean it could easily be even worse than that if some massively cpu intensive game for ps5 stresses its presumably far more powerful cpu. It would be very limiting to demand games to run on the old hardware, and with a brand new gen hardware available, something like that at best can be left up to infividual developer.Why would a PS5 game be hurt by having the capability of being run at 1080p/30 fps on a PS4? I want to understand this.
And either way it's a win for Sony.
Those that want mid gen, buy it. That that don't, don't.
As long as they make a console that the general public wants, it's a win for them.
I hope both MS and Sony keep doing it. 1-5 PS4 owners getting a Pro has to make them happy.