I know your exaggerating, but why do people continue to use this logic to paint Niko as an objectively bad character or something? Niko's internal conflict to leave his past life of violence, while simultaneously constantly being wrapped back into it is what makes his story interesting and what gives his character depth.
Is Don Draper a bad character because "I'm trying not to cheat on my wife", only to then proceed to cheat on his wife with many women time and time again? I'm tired of people not being able to separate a character you may dislike or have objection to, from an objectively poorly developed character. Only video games seem to have this issue.
So you're basically using the lame immersion argument to defend a game with empty gameplay in it like so many do with bad games. Walking simulators sure are fun!
I know this may be hard for you to understand, but people can find appreciation of various aspects in certain types of art. What you find enjoyable may not align with what someone else enjoys about games, and vice versa. It doesn't make them wrong or your opinion somehow superior.
Also if you only constitute gameplay as being one off side diversions like "see how many thugs you can kill in rampage mode, and then do it 10 more times" than I think you need to be more flexibly open minded about what games are. But asking someone like you to be more open minded is a lost cause so forget it. I just fail to see how wandering the country side, or stopping to take in the view is somehow any less gameplay than whatever silly side activity is present in GTAV.
GTA V has what you're taking about also. The countryside and mountains are great to explore.I know this may be hard for you to understand, but people can find appreciation of various aspects in certain types of art. What you find enjoyable may not align with what someone else enjoys about games, and vice versa. It doesn't make them wrong or your opinion somehow superior.
Also if you only constitute gameplay as being one off side diversions like "see how many thugs you can kill in rampage mode, and then do it 10 more times" than I think you need to be more flexibly open minded about what games are. But asking someone like you to be more open minded is a lost cause so forget it. I just fail to see how wandering the country side, or stopping to take in the view is somehow any less gameplay than whatever silly side activity is present in GTAV.
I shouldn't have to explain why walking and doing literally nothing isn't gameplay.
while I get where you're coming from, derrick, rdr in particular had a good amount of random shit to do that made cruising around the world entertaining (returning a wagon from robbers to some dude, hunting, rescuing some dame about to be hanged, robbing stores, bounties, etc.).I shouldn't have to explain why walking and doing literally nothing isn't gameplay.
I know your exaggerating, but why do people continue to use this logic to paint Niko as an objectively bad character or something? Niko's internal conflict to leave his past life of violence, while simultaneously constantly being wrapped back into it is what makes his story interesting and what gives his character depth.
Is Don Draper a bad character because "I'm trying not to cheat on my wife", only to then proceed to cheat on his wife with many women time and time again? I'm tired of people not being able to separate a character you may dislike or have objection to, from an objectively poorly developed character. Only video games seem to have this issue.
Definitely a thought provoking piece. I particularly liked his exploration of the idea of the 'hardcore gamer' being, at some level, fundamentally "broken."
Did you copy/paste the entire article? Eh...
The more I play 5, the more I realize how much I hate Niko as a character.
"I'm trying to be a good guy!"
---Niko, we need you to kill these 50 guys for a couple grand
"okay"
So, video game writer/advocate Tom Bissell wrote a very long "letter" to Niko. In it, he talks briefly about his personal experiences while playing GTA IV, and the how the way his life has gone since then might have shaped his perception of V. I tried bolding some of the parts I thought were interesting/important. Lock/mock if old.
That was a pretty exhausting read about nothing meaningful, to me anyway. No words about how much of a better game it is, just ranting about story nonsense. I rolled my eyes when he said RDR was probably Rockstar's best game to date all because of its fucking story, never mind that it's one of the most boring games to actually play. But I guess as long as its story is decent enough that's all that matters in an open world game.
Well written article, but I'm not sure what it was about.
Something about growing up? Something about the game just being satire and not much else?
I dunno, didn't have complaints with either of those points. Is Dr. Strangelove supposed to grow up and have some sort of meaningful plot? Pulp Fiction?
This was brought up in the other thread, and like I said there, the open-world narrative still has yet to be perfected in games. It's tough to tell one that is tight and doesn't meander, though I still V's interesting thanks to the great protagonists.
You could have saved this post, dude. Really embarrassing.
Explain please. I have no idea what the article is about. He starts with how games rely on a fun loop and how GTA doesn't necessarily apply to that convention and if it does does so in a way that makes mundane tasks fun, then to how gamers are broken and confrontational and how that's what elicits terrible behavior on the internet, then to how GTA has no discernable theme or narrative, and finally how younger gamers are now the target audience in his generation's stead.
The only common thread I see is that the writer feels alienated. That's cool I guess. But yeah like one of the posters above I would recommend Sleeping Dogs for a tighter, more conventional story. Loved that game too. Author of this article would likely enjoy it and wouldn't be surprised if he played Wei Shen to fit that character as well (i.e. no rampages)
Kind of creepy.
Reminds me of this in a way:
Also, for those asking about GTAV's theme, more than anything it seems like an auto analysis of the GTA franchise.
Eh, I didn't enjoy Sleeping Dogs much. Kinda bored me for the most part (if that's what you were referring to with pork buns).Never tried pork buns?
Actually I think GTA V's narrative is almost the right length. Yes there are some filler missions in the middle, but Rockstar kept the missions pretty fresh and the narrative moving.
Having said that, I do appreciate the spirit of it. I think GTA is a bit too one-note for its own good, and that clashes with the increasingly fleshed out, realistic worlds the games are set in. They're so ruthlessly, obsessively cynical in their satire that it becomes tiring after a while.
Tom Bissell is my favorite writer about games. Excellent piece, I expected nothing less.
That is an amazing sentence.Tom Bissell said:Any medium that allows someone to spend monastic amounts of time by him- or herself, wandering the gloaming of imagination and reality, is doomed to be adored by lost, lonely people.
Also untrue.That is an amazing sentence.
The more I play 5, the more I realize how much I hate Niko as a character.
"I'm trying to be a good guy!"
---Niko, we need you to kill these 50 guys for a couple grand
"okay"
He's like the video game Robert McKee.
I was simply referring the disconnect between some rather insightful analysis on the role and construction of fiction in videogames and actually being able to apply that analytic skill in an interesting manner. That's why I was rather disappointed by his "rookie attempt." I just thought to myself "this guy understands how video games should be written" but now I have my reservations. Though, to be fair, there have been a many number of great writers who never attempted or failed miserably in the world of fiction -- as it is a different beast from this type of writing.This makes zero sense. Bissell is not trying to instruct anyone on how to make games. And he's got a successful career even if he stops writing about games tomorrow.
As for his actual game writing skills, a less than spectacular rookie attempt is not enough to write him off completely. I think The Witness will have people singing a different tune.
This also. Ugh. Everyone engages in solitary entertainment in one way or another and how much it is valued by society should mean nothing to you if you receive meaningful enjoyment from it.
In summary we are all broken. Hardly news.
I'm starting to lean towards this as well.
I shouldn't have to explain why walking and doing literally nothing isn't gameplay.
I shouldn't have to explain why walking and doing literally nothing isn't gameplay.
this fucking guy
I shouldn't have to explain why walking and doing literally nothing isn't gameplay.
I don't agree with a good chunk of how he feels about the game yet agree with a lot of what he has to say about gaming. Interesting ruminations and a good read, much more than I expected.
I think the real wrinkle is that monastic pursuits lead possibly to more naval gazing than is really healthy as well.